AaronM

Cut the watermarks out of any content I own and I will terminate your payouts but keep your traffic. I may also consider taking legal action against you.

Yes, watermarks are for branding and since I own the content, I have the right to brand it. Since YOU do not own it, you have ZERO right to remove my watermarks.

Agent 488

what if some dude sees a girl on my site and goes to your review site to see if it's any good and decides to sign up and you get credit for the sale?

whoa, i think i got ripped off there somehow ...! i think you owe me some $$$!

where does it end. this is a fucking a joke.

if you don't like the promo materials don't promote the program. if you can't find anyone who isn't "fucking you around" start your own paysite. simple.

After Shock Media

Honestly the way most people do ccbill links, especially hosted gallery ones. The surfer gets a cookie set when they hit the gallery. Unless you have never seen people giving people long ccbill gallery links before and if that is the case you either do not promote many ccbill sponsors or something.

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Tempest

I love Claudia Marie. I have traffic for her site. But you and I constantly bash heads and so there's no motivation for me to put in the time and effort to send you guys any of that traffic or sales.

Let me reiterate I FUCKING LOVE Claudia Marie and those gorgeous tits of hers... ha ha ha

Tempest

I don't promote your stuff and never will so no worries there...

Due

Really an interested concept.

Back when I was a webmaster,99% of all programs didn't have free content available.

The programs that did, had maybe 10-20 picture sets.

It was a general understand that if you did not like what programs was giving to you for FREE, you could go to a content shop and buy something you liked. Including content to make your own banners!

Again it was also the general assumption that you worked WITH the sponsors, sometimes even FOR the sponsor, it wasn't the sponsor working for you.

The webmasters that make the sponsors money now, is not the webmasters that suck in 50K hosted galleries and 100K free FLV movies to automatically post to their sites, traffic to that will be one in a dozen and most of the time you'll hardly be able to measure a click through ratio yet alone a signup ratio

Anyone that really wish special treatments should select a handful of affiliate programs to work with, focus their efforts on selling the sites rather than linking to them, I'll pretty much guarantee anyone that works with a descent sponsor and bring in anything more than 1-2 sales per day consistently will be more than happy to provide you with further tools to improve your conversions and sales.

Treat it like a business and do the math, calculate if the value of the revenues you bring in would justify setting time aside to do whatever you ask.


This isn't aimed at anyone specific just based on constant "thread titles" I've seen recently

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james_clickmemedia

Why are you so angry? Let your traffic do the talking....

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Robbie

We only bash heads because you were totally disrespectful to me. I don't mind a heated argument between two people with differing experiences and viewpoints. But you've taken it pretty personal on me a couple of times and hurt my internet feelings.
You want to bury the hatchet, I'm totally into that. I never came on GFY in the beginning to make enemies. I originally came here to do business and make friends. We both know the place has gotten so trollish that it hasn't been very conducive to that in the last few years.

But I'm reaching my hand out now to you. You don't need to send me any traffic or anything like that. We'll both do just fine without the other...I'm just saying I'd like to bury the hatchet.

Now come over here and give me an internet hug.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

AaronM

As if you have any idea what I do and or don't own.

Tempest

I promote a lot of ccbill programs and very few do what you're talking about becuase it creates this massive raw/uni click number that makes it so you can't see what your conversion rates... Most programs are using the woj script (or something similar) for their FHGs.

Socks

tempest, you're promoting AaronM's work almost no matter where you aim your traffic I'm afraid... He's uhm, guilty by association.

JimmiDean

Well said.

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AaronM

And for the record...Although my statement quoted you, it applies to anybody who tries pulling that shit. Just telling people to do it makes you a thief in my book.

l0lf4c3

I hope the sponsors on your granny tube blog ...(?) site will do the same with you for watermarking their watermarked content (shit, this getting confusing aint it?)


Thanks for heads up, go shake hands with teh ugly hairy fat bitch carrying the same attitude. I wont even quote from the rest of your shines, this one delivers enough.


Dont worry, them encourage cookie stuffing. (feel the sarcasm, he just didnt get his morning coffee...
... wait what?)


Who cares about shitty fhgs anyways?
But still, if they have it in their terms to not touch the watermark, doing so would be stealing. Besides todays surfer knows perfectly if he is on an affiliate site or paysite. Actually todays surfer uses affiliate sites to find the content he wants (this carries naturally a preview of the product, call it a demo if it makes it easier). Its amazing how some of you think every single buyer is a first timer on the internet. Wake up, a whole generation passed by.
If the surfer is looking for free content, he will care very little about the watermark in it (except that its annoying, but still, free).

Thus i cant accept my head in my ass.

Tempest

I know that.. But that's promoting the companies he's licensed his content to, not companies he owns... His content is hot shit and all over the place.

Tempest

And if you're watermarking the content to promote a different site, then you're attempting to steal from me making you a thief in my book.. If you're watermarking your content for the site that's being promoted, then you and I will never have a problem.

nexcom28

I actually agree with you in a roundabout kinda way.

Tempest

Perectly willing to burry the hatchet.. I'm having my man period right now though so any hugs will need to wait for my PMSing to end.

Robbie

So I guess consummating our relationship will have to wait..

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

baddog

None of which you will get paid for since you most likely violated their TOS by doing so.

Tempest

Yeah... what's funny is that I had a long time program owner that I had a close relationship with actually tell me to cut the watermark off their content in order to get more sales...

Due

Are you pissed that this one program owner gave you some benefits that others do not get because you have an established relationship with or are you pissed that other program owners you do not have an established relationship with do not give you these benefits?

Or are you simply concerned about your fellow webmasters ? What about the content producers? Licenses is normally issued on a domain basis unless it's exclusive, what's the best way to track that ? What about 2257s etc, should the sponsor be responsible for that as well ? (the content on your server, not theirs)

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baddog

I think doing it with the program's blessing is significantly different than taking matters into your own hand.

Tempest

My comment about the program owner was to show that the programs are well aware that their watermark takes sales away from affiliates.

What was this thread about? It was about programs saying that their watermarks were about "protecting" content which it is not what they're doing when they put the watermark on there.

I'm pissed at programs for blatently trying to steal sales from me.. I'm pissed at cry baby affiliates whining about it and then not actually doing anything about it.. My first post was addressed to programs, but I also told affiliates to "get their head out of their ass". I'm an equal opportunity whiner.

Out of the hundred or so programs I promote, there's not one that gives a shit if I host the FHGs myself regardless of what their TOS might say... Many of them even offer that as an option and many more offer the same content for affiliates to build their own galleries.

Once more... This thread is about the purpose of the watermark the programs put on their content.

Shap

That was assuming they've been to the tour. If they don't hit the tour obviously that doesn't apply.

d-null

http://www.spankwire.com/Courtney-Si...seekPercent=70


no watermark or even sponsor links are necessary when the product being sold is not paysite memberships (especially when all the content is already right there in great quality for free)

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Kevin Marx

Just one thing to add, and I am pretty sure it won't be very popular..... Affiliates are upset that they can lose sales when surfers get to the sites through a channel different than the path they have set-up. Certainly a concern and something I would be wanting to protect if I were an affiliate.

However, I don't think anyone ever addresses the fact of what other business/sales model do you know of where the "sales-person" gets a 50/50 cut with the business? Seriously??? My spouse has worked in Sales for 20 years now and her largest Commission rate ever was 10%. I heard of someone making 25% once and he covered 100% of his expenses which were far and beyond what I know any affiliate could blow on bandwidth.

I my experience, a 50/50 split with affiliates has meant approximately a 70/30 share over time. Some affiliates I assume are closer to 50/50 while others have traffic that bleeds out and doesn't get credited. As a program owner, I am fine with that share ratio and affiliates that complain about it need to look at the other side of the coin. Where else will you make 50% on a sale? If you know how to sell to your surfers, you won't have any bleeds and you will be better off than the next guy.

Just like in the mainstream world, if you can get another salesguy to do the same job for less, odds are you will take him instead of your higher priced previous one. If we as program owners setup sales rules and regulations that affiliates don't agree with, they can either accept them and make money together or you can go sell someone else that has rules/regs that you are happier with. Pretty simple concepts really.

With that in mind, I would never agree with an affiliate trashing my watermark. I put on it what I wish. You sell it if you want to. An agreement with an affiliate is not an equal partnership except monetarily (and many times an affiliate takes 60 or 70%). You are an independent contractor and have no say in how the program is run. Your sole purpose is to sell and in that purpose you make program owners happy. Believing that you get to make decisions which affect the operations of the program is silly. I would never come to you and tell you how to operate your TGP/Tube/Blog, etc.. you would tell me in no uncertain terms to GFY...

my

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Due

The sponsors have every right on earth to put this on THEIR content, you have every right on earth to promote something else with YOUR traffic.
Most affiliates don't care, that's your advantage, that's more sales for you to pocket. The worse your "link trades" is doing at marketing the more sales you will pocket.
I would change the sentense "Out of the hundred or so programs I promote" to be "Out of the hundred or so programs I use and the selected I promote"

I'm pretty sure the majority of the sponsors put watermarks on the content since most of their affiliates is using 100s of various affiliate programs but they don't get regular sales, in return for their free content at least they get some branding that help also the active affiliates in bringing in more sales since it gives a higher consumer confidence

I didn't run websites for years though, so my idea of what you need to do to make a successful website that generate good revenues might be completely wrong, I just know how it used to be

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AaronM

Why would I ever watermark content to promote a different site?

Obviously you and I already have a problem or you would not have posted:

"I don't promote your stuff and never will so no worries there..."

Socks

Very good points Kevin.

My only addition/correction would be that this is a change in terms that wasn't discussed. Like a baseball player makes a deal one day, then the team decides a month later to make a major change to his contract without talking with him first. He is "free to play somewhere else if he wants"....

When I agree to promote a program, many times I put in a lot of hours of work. When things like this happen, I can't just easily 'promote someone else' when I don't like something. It's a change to our business relationship that wasn't discussed, planned for, and is completely one sided.

No affiliate is here claiming it's bad to brand your content, or that we don't like your watermarks, or that you shouldn't protect your business.

However clearly it's a big step to change what site is branded (and marketed!) through the watermark.

It's basically saying you'll do what the hell you want with affiliate traffic.

Is that a good precedent in program/affiliate relationships going forward?

d-null

you can't even begin to compare percentage cuts between digital "goods" and other finite products in the "real world".... one could even argue for the side that an affiliate with a surfer that is ready to buy could even command a higher "cut" than 50/50

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AaronM

Software is digital goods. I don't see Microsoft paying out a 50/50 split.

d-null

microsoft is a monopoly when it comes to most of their main product line, but if there were 1000 microsoft's competing equally on the net and selling their software digitally through downloads, you would see 50/50 and higher for affiliates I am pretty sure

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AaronM

These days, music is also digital goods.

Does iTunes have a 50/50 affiliate program? Or do you consider them a monopoly too?

There are a lot of software companies out there who offer similar products to one another and not a single one has a 50/50 program that I am aware of.

Biggy

It's in affiliate's best interest to say there should be no watermark. It's in the program's interest to protect and brand their content.

You have fair people and unfair people. Fair people, IMO, will agree branding content is OK. Affiliates who try to squeeze every penny out, or who are struggling themselves, won't think its fair. People act in their own best interest. Affiliate programs have to be fair or else they risk losing affiliates. The main disconnect is some affiliates think affiliate programs are cake, and we are making money hand over fist - it just isnt true. Both sides need to make money. I'll say one thing, you can argue until you are blue in the face, every successful company will continue to brand - the biggest adult companies are the biggest brands, and you cannot argue with success. Also, all their success is predicated on the brand - you take away that, and they would all be in much more precarious situations :2cents

Brazzers, Bang Bros, Adult Friend Finder, Playboy, Hustler, Live Jasmine - I can go on and on. If you want to be a market player, you need a brand.

d-null

itunes doesn't even use affiliates, do they? seems to me they are all about huge money mainstream advertising and placement, whole different game, and in the realm of legal music catalog sales they are in a limited competition situation as well....

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Killswitch - BANNED FOR LIFE

This thread is ridiculous, if you don't like how a program marks THEIR content, don't promote them.

AaronM

You appear to be completely missing the point.

I don't give a rats ass if it's digital goods or not. There are PLENTY of mainstream products that are not digital goods and that compete with others and still have huge mark ups. 50/50 is more than MOST affiliates are worth.

cherrylula

uh, not if they haven't clicked through a link code yet... I mean, duh.

Mickey_

Itunes does have an affiliate program through LinkShare. Their payout is 5%...

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LifeSelector Affiliates - Make money today promoting the online porn of tomorrow.

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cherrylula

So true. You can make more with $20 of content and your own shitty little avs than with any large sites. No leaks.

but if I was a large program owner, I'd do the same thing. Its business, not broness.

aniloscash

we spend a ton of money on producing original content and most of our effort is to be sure the affiliates have what they need to promote the site. funny I was just telling someone in the office that we should have our water mark on the screen caps. I guess there are two perspectives on this issue. I'm pretty sure if we caught affiliates removing out watermarks we would terminate their account. As far as I know the only affiliates we have had to terminate so far are ones that have 1:10 ratios and were sending fraudulent signups. But anyone using our content without linking to the site would be a big issue.

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bdld

what about banners where the url takes up half the banner, what a traffic leak that is. what i do instead is create my own banners. voila.

quantum-x

The thing that's I find most bewildering about this entire debacle is that the power is in YOUR HANDS as an affiliate to do as you wish.

Let me highlight:
OK, so you're promoting bangbus, but it's watermarked as bangbros.com.

You've got three options here.
#1 - You decide to drop the program
OK, that's your choice. It's probably not the smartest thing to do, if they convert, but this is a choice you have. Noone is forcing you to promote them.

#2 - Promote the site in a fashion ALA CCBill
Get a redirect link setup, where the cookie is set before, on their domain, so if someone types-in, your cookie is there.
Yes, this may skew your stats, but that's why you have campaigns. More data: more results.

#3 - You embed an image in your page that sets a cookie for bangbros.com
That way, if the surfer types in bangbros.com - your cookie is magically there.
There's no secret to this - I *always* did this when promoting galleries to prevent leaks

So in a simple situation, you've got multiple options, and multiple ways to solve the problem.

Summary:
- Sometimes, you have to look to yourself for answers.
- You're in the game to make money via promoting sites.
- Sites are in the game to make money via promoting their brand

Be proactive. Speak to your sponsor, fix the problem, and chuckle at the next person who complains about the issue on the board, because you know you have the edge over them in business because you overcame the similar problem yourself..

Don't be a douche and spew crap over a board.

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baddog

No doubt.

CyberHustler

quantum-x

Say your linking code is: http://discount.teengfs.com/track/MzoyOjE/

Put this in your HTML:
<img src="http://discount.teengfs.com/track/MjoxOTox/" width="0" height="0" />

Load up that HTML page, and then type in: www.teengfs.com

Just like magic, your cookie is already there.

Oh shit, I hope I don't get killed by the brotherhood of oldschoolers for letting this one slip ;)

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BlackCrayon

i stopped using free content because of watermarks. You really don't need any content at all to make sales....

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