There are two types of people on GFY these days (yep, another Tube thread)

[Snake Doctor]

Two types of people on here these days.

1) People who are wishing/hoping/dreaming that tube sites will go away and things can go back to the way they were.

These dreams/hopes/wishes include lawsuits, 2257 inspections, eventual bankruptcy for tube sites from those who assume (but have no real knowledge) that the big tubes are losing money, changes to the DMCA, more lawsuits, right wing groups pressuring politicians, and on and on and on.

2) People who are figuring out ways to make money in this new environment, even if it means throwing away the entire playbook they've been using for the past 10 years and starting over.


Guess which of these two types of people will still be in business 2-5 years from now?

[sortie]

Pick me! Pick me!

[Snake Doctor]

Reading the business threads around here these days it makes me think of a bunch of retailers in a boardroom 20 or 30 years ago talking about how Wal-Mart would eventually go bankrupt and then they could go back to "business as usual", because there's no way Wal-Mart's business model was sustainable.

90% of the threads are about ways the tubes could possibly fail, and how you may be able to help cause them to fail. There are almost zero threads talking about what converts these days, what kind of content customers want, what kind of free/feeder sites should we build to attract surfers......it's all "death to the tubes", as if waiting for someone else to fail is a viable business strategy.

[woj]

It's a trick question

the correct answer neither of them will make $$

[DWB]

The ones who protect their content and have deep pockets are the ones who will still be around in 2 - 5 years.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Reading the business threads around here these days it makes me think of a bunch of retailers in a boardroom 20 or 30 years ago talking about how Wal-Mart would eventually go bankrupt and then they could go back to "business as usual", because there's no way Wal-Mart's business model was sustainable.

90% of the threads are about ways the tubes could possibly fail, and how you may be able to help cause them to fail. There are almost zero threads talking about what converts these days, what kind of content customers want, what kind of free/feeder sites should we build to attract surfers......it's all "death to the tubes", as if waiting for someone else to fail is a viable business strategy.

Well, "Fake Tube Scripts" were a way for smaller webmasters to compete with tubes
and a lot of people still "slam/hate on" those scripts on this board.

Some people don't want solutions, they only want to complain their way into success.

[nation-x]

Then there are the people who do not give a fuck about wtf other people are doing and aren't the panicky type of people... not everyone is being affected by tubes or anything else like that... if you have a product that isn't saturated, the only concern you have is competition. The real question to ask is... why do stupid motherfuckers think they can decide what the market wants? They should think outside of the box and find out what market wants their product and whether they can compete.

Replying because this thread could spark some good meaningful conversation and I like that... Subscribed.

P.S. Those who shut their mouths and worry about recouping that lost $$ will be here in 2-5 years instead of the ones bitching and watching their earnings just dry up.

[StuartD]

There are 3 types of people in the world, those who can count and those who can't.

[Ozarkz]

Almost.. Their is 2 types of people on GFY.

1) Those that believes tube sites and free porn are a problem.
2) Those that believe tube sites and free porn are not a problem.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Two types of people on here these days.

1) People who are wishing/hoping/dreaming that tube sites will go away and things can go back to the way they were.

These dreams/hopes/wishes include lawsuits, 2257 inspections, eventual bankruptcy for tube sites from those who assume (but have no real knowledge) that the big tubes are losing money, changes to the DMCA, more lawsuits, right wing groups pressuring politicians, and on and on and on.

2) People who are figuring out ways to make money in this new environment, even if it means throwing away the entire playbook they've been using for the past 10 years and starting over.


Guess which of these two types of people will still be in business 2-5 years from now?

I'm neither of those.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

The ones who protect their content and have deep pockets are the ones who will still be around in 2 - 5 years.

"protecting content" is a red herring IMO. It's just another way to blame someone else.
People are on here everyday saying "if the big sponsors would protect their content then tubes would die".

If protecting your content is all that's needed, let me ask you this. Let's say Playboy magazines were protected and the only way you could look at them was to pay for them, but Huster, Oui, Juggs, Score, Penthouse, etc were all freely available.
Would you pay for Playboy or just jerk off to what was available?

If you think people don't buy porn because it's available for free, then quit now, because there will always be porn available for free, especially if you're not rigid in your definition of "porn".

Originally Posted by Ozarkz

Almost.. Their is 2 types of people on GFY.

1) Those that believes tube sites and free porn are a problem.
2) Those that believe tube sites and free porn are not a problem.

Even if you think it is a problem, there's nothing you, by yourself, can do about it. (other than the xxxjay model which is to start 10K threads complaining about tubes )

So the question you should be asking is what you can do in this environment to make money, not "can we kill the tubes?" before you go bankrupt.

[seeandsee]

my mom

[Sin]

This is a ridiculous notion if you ask me... if you were to run a history of GFY's posts, one would think that the porn industry has been in "dire threat of going out of business" for the last 8 years at least....yet here we all are!

The ONLY threat to people paying to see porn is when they finally figure out that if they spend less time in front of a PC by themselves, that they can get in on some of that action themselves ;)

[halfpint]

You forget the 3rd type

The silent ones....

[ADL Colin]

.. truth

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Ozarkz

Almost.. Their are 2 types of people on GFY.

1) Those that believes tube sites and free porn are a problem.
2) Those that believe tube sites and free porn are not a problem.

I agree.

And as far as the scenario that was posed earlier, where lots of local retailers were discussing how to compete with Walmart - guess what? Walmart won, and the smaller guys died off, so I don't see how NOT wanting to get rid of tubes and free porn is senseless. It is the ONLY way for most players to stay alive.

Working harder to survive in this environment is a no-brainer. Trying to come up with new ideas to survive is also a no-brainer. But figuring out out to remove huge sources of FREE fucking porn, is additionally a no-brainer, as competing with, or emulating, a free business model is just rediculous.

[SilentSound]

...innovation, innovation. I still believe there are ideas out there nobody has worked on, I believe there are still sites that were dreamt about that are no more than just that - dreams.

There's more than just tube sites.
my opinion ;)

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

I agree.

And as far as the scenario that was posed earlier, where lots of local retailers were discussing how to compete with Walmart - guess what? Walmart won, and the smaller guys died off, so I don't see how NOT wanting to get rid of tubes and free porn is senseless. It is the ONLY way for most players to stay alive.

Working harder to survive in this environment is a no-brainer. Trying to come up with new ideas to survive is also a no-brainer. But figuring out out to remove huge sources of FREE fucking porn, is additionally a no-brainer, as competing with, or emulating, a free business model is just rediculous.

Those other retailers could have survived, they just weren't willing to change.

The reason Wal-Mart won is because Wal-Mart gave the customers what they wanted. If the other retailers had adapted, they could have swallowed Wal-Mart whole.
Instead they just assumed that what Wal-Mart was doing was wrong (because it was different from what they were doing), and that they would eventually fail.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

The reason Wal-Mart won is because Wal-Mart gave the customers what they wanted.

But they were still selling products!

Walmart wasn't GIVING away their competition's products for FREE - they were still in business to sell a fucking product!

Adapting to the "give it all away for free" business model is not a sustainable plan - it is simply a race to the bottom.

[PornAddict]

Originally Posted by StuartD

There are 3 types of people in the world, those who can count and those who can't.

LOL... that was awesome!

- PornAddict

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

But they were still selling products!

Walmart wasn't GIVING away their competition's products for FREE - they were still in business to sell a fucking product!

Adapting to the "give it all away for free" business model is not a sustainable plan - it is simply a race to the bottom.

Retailing products for a price that is less than their competitor's cost is exactly the same thing.

The exact same logic applies.

Why buy it if I can get it for free?

Why buy it for $5 here if I can buy it for $3 there?

There has always been free porn. The amount of free porn has steadily increased and become easier to find. The quantity and quality has steadily increased since the web began, and ever since the first day that the first free pic was out there, someone was bitching about it, but billions have been made in the meantime. This is no different.

To be fair, everyone's numbers are down at least 25% right now. That's because of the recession and would have happened regardless of tubes. People would have jerked off to bikini pics on myspace if there weren't tubes.....you can't get blood from a turnip. A chunk of our former customers no longer have the ability to buy, nothing we can do about that.

However, free sites have improved drastically in the past couple of years in terms of quantity and quality and ease of use, while most paysites haven't changed at all. The ones that haven't changed are the ones hurting the most because the tubes have better stuff for free than these paysites are charging people for.

The companies that are constantly improving their product are doing fine, relatively speaking. (relative because of the recession)

The people who are hurting right now, and I mean really hurting, are free site owners who lost traffic to better free sites, and paysite owners with an outdated product that they can no longer sell.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

2) People who are figuring out ways to make money in this new environment, even if it means throwing away the entire playbook they've been using for the past 10 years and starting over.


Guess which of these two types of people will still be in business 2-5 years from now?

I am going to go with the Lenny2 option.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Why buy it for $5 here if I can buy it for $3 there?

Why buy it at all, if it is FUCKING FREE?!

I think we may have to agree to disagree

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

2) People who are figuring out ways to make money in this new environment, even if it means throwing away the entire playbook they've been using for the past 10 years and starting over.



The people who are hurting right now, and I mean really hurting, are free site owners who lost traffic to better free sites, and paysite owners with an outdated product that they can no longer sell.

how about gallery submitters?
I remember your 'famous' "is is still woth to submit galleries?" threads from 2006 or so....
I thought you were a big-time submitter

if you're one of the smart ones who adapted, then it'd be nice to hear how exactly did you adapt?

nothing personal, but if you admitted to being a gallery submitter in the past, then you could say what you're doing now? although I guess the answer would be simple - you're running tube sites, (or -less likely - advertising on them)

If you don't wish to reply - obviously fine. I rarely share my biz as well.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Why buy it at all, if it is FUCKING FREE?!

I think we may have to agree to disagree

The point of this thread, and other discussions I'm having that are similar, is to try and get you, my friends, to get over your outrage and righteous indignation and look at things from a detached and logical perspective.

Why would someone who has bookmarked an MGP ever buy a porn membership?

What about a TGP?

What about an adult check gold member? Those people signed up to paysites in droves, that was the most valuable traffic on a per click basis probably ever.

If those people all bought, and still buy memberships, why wouldn't a tube site surfer also buy a membership?

Selling a product below cost is exactly the same, in terms of competition, as giving the product away. The only difference is the amount of the loss.

So if you owned a store and Wal-Mart moved to town, what would you do?

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

how about gallery submitters?
I remember your 'famous' "is is still woth to submit galleries?" threads from 2006 or so....
I thought you were a big-time submitter

if you're one of the smart ones who adapted, then it'd be nice to hear how exactly did you adapt?

nothing personal, but if you admitted to being a gallery submitter in the past, then you could say what you're doing now? although I guess the answer would be simple - you're running tube sites, (or -less likely - advertising on them)

If you don't wish to reply - obviously fine. I rarely share my biz as well.

I "admitted to being a gallery submitter"....you say that like I "admitted to being an alcoholic" or a criminal or something like that.

I haven't submitted a gallery in years. That game was over a long time ago IMO. I still buy some spots on some TGP's. If you're getting the spot for the right price and promoting the right product in the right way you can still make a profit....albeit a smaller profit than in years past.

I won't go into details about my other projects other than to say I never ever ever publish content to the web that I don't have a license to use. So nobody should ever say or think that I support piracy or anything of the sort.
I just don't think it's the big deal everyone makes it out to be, I just think that people's numbers suck and they're looking for someone to blame, so they blame the tubes.

[AdultSoftwareSolutions]

There are certainly more of #1. Most of the industry just copies each other.

Who was it that said "Thinking is the hardest thing to do. That's why there are so few that do it."?

[sortie]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

But they were still selling products!

Walmart wasn't GIVING away their competition's products for FREE - they were still in business to sell a fucking product!

Adapting to the "give it all away for free" business model is not a sustainable plan - it is simply a race to the bottom.

Maybe for some. Run both ads below in the same newspaper.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Why would someone who has bookmarked an MGP ever buy a porn membership? What about a TGP?

What about an adult check gold member? Those people signed up to paysites in droves, that was the most valuable traffic on a per click basis probably ever.

If those people all bought, and still buy memberships, why wouldn't a tube site surfer also buy a membership?

I just can't do this anymore. You win. The best plan is to simply give everything away for free. I have no idea what I was thinking before. And of course, if the local retailers had really wanted to compete with Walmart in the past, then they should have just given everything away for free too. I'm sure they must feel pretty stupid right about now. Idiots! They could have easily beat out Walmart, as small retailers who had higher overheads, sold American goods, had fair unions for their workers, etc. It was a no-brainer.

I have been such a fool

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

?

I "admitted to being a gallery submitter"....you say that like I "admitted to being an alcoholic" or a criminal or something like that.

sorry, didn't mean it that way

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by sortie

Maybe for some. Run both ads below in the same newspaper.

most GFY'ers would just close their eyes.... and....

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by AdultSoftwareSolutions

There are certainly more of #1. Most of the industry just copies each other.

Who was it that said "Thinking is the hardest thing to do. That's why there are so few that do it."?

Edison.

Originally Posted by BFT3K

I just can't do this anymore. You win. The best plan is to simply give everything away for free. I have no idea what I was thinking before. And of course, if the local retailers had really wanted to compete with Walmart in the past, then they should have just given everything away for free too. I'm sure they must feel pretty stupid right about now. Idiots! They could have easily beat out Walmart, as small retailers who had higher overheads, sold American goods, had fair unions for their workers, etc. It was a no-brainer.

I have been such a fool

Hey dude, if you want to keep ignoring 90% of what I'm saying so you can "be right" it's your funeral. No sweat off my back.

I wasn't talking about local retailers, I'm talking about the giants that a puny little company from Arkansas put out of business.

They sat there just like you and felt all righteous and morally superior right up until the day they filed bankruptcy and then sent their resumes to Wal-Mart.

You act like free porn just appeared this year and before that everyone was buying. That's not true, free porn has been around from the beginning. In order to get people to pay you have to offer a product that's better than what they can get for free. Or offer it in a format they can't get for free.

Most people are trying to sell a product that's inferior to what's available for free, and then blame the guys with the free stuff for their failure.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Most people are trying to sell a product that's inferior to what's available for free, and then blame the guys with the free stuff for their failure.

BINGO!


The immediate answer is to produce top notch product and protect it with vengance.

[the.drunk]

tubes tubes tubes

[Ozarkz]

MGP is 30 second clips.

TGP is just a few pictures from a set.

Both MGPs and TGPs play games with the surfer before giving them the movies or pictures they hoped to see.

What's not to get?

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by Ozarkz

MGP is 30 second clips.

TGP is just a few pictures from a set.

Both MGPs and TGPs play games with the surfer before giving them the movies or pictures they hoped to see.

What's not to get?

The Hun, Worldsex, Pinkworld, etc play no games with any surfers.

When TGP's were started, paysites consisted mostly of pictures. So people gave away 15-20 pictures from a 100 picture set.
A TGP updated with probably 1500 pictures per day, the very best paysites at the time updated with maybe that many per week.

When MGP's were started, paysites were just starting to offer downloadable movies. They were short and low quality but still an improvement over the pornholio and igallery streams that were really the only thing available at the time for paysites.

MGP galleries had about 2 mins worth of movies. The average MGP added 200 minutes worth of movies a day when the average paysite added maybe that much in a month.

Today, the top paysites update 20+ times per week, with 30-45+ minute movies in stunning quality. 2mbps or better, plus downloads for iphone, live interaction, social networking features, etc.

What tubes are giving away today, in relation to what the top paysites have to offer, is really no different than past generations of free sites. Also, if you look closely at the bigger tube sites, you'll see that the most popular content tends to be the user created content (i.e. home movies), which 99.99% of paysites don't offer, so that's not really a competitive factor.

What's not to get?

[Snake Doctor]

If you look at the history of online porn, short as it is, you'll also notice that every generation of free site has generated alot of animosity and chicken little talk from the generation preceding it.

Picposts hated Link Lists and said all the free content would ruin the industry.

Link Lists hated TGP's and said all the free content would ruin the industry.

TGP's hated MGP's and said all the free content would ruin the industry. (although alot of TGP's morphed into hybrid TGP & MGP's and are still around...alot died off though)

TGPs/MGPs hate tubes and are saying that all the free content will ruin the industry.

Paysite owners have bitched every step of the way also.

In a couple of years Tube owners will be bitching about whatever is next, and complaining that it's going to ruin the industry.

[Ozarkz]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

The Hun, Worldsex, Pinkworld, etc play no games with any surfers.

When TGP's were started, paysites consisted mostly of pictures. So people gave away 15-20 pictures from a 100 picture set.
A TGP updated with probably 1500 pictures per day, the very best paysites at the time updated with maybe that many per week.

When MGP's were started, paysites were just starting to offer downloadable movies. They were short and low quality but still an improvement over the pornholio and igallery streams that were really the only thing available at the time for paysites.

MGP galleries had about 2 mins worth of movies. The average MGP added 200 minutes worth of movies a day when the average paysite added maybe that much in a month.

Today, the top paysites update 20+ times per week, with 30-45+ minute movies in stunning quality. 2mbps or better, plus downloads for iphone, live interaction, social networking features, etc.

What tubes are giving away today, in relation to what the top paysites have to offer, is really no different than past generations of free sites. Also, if you look closely at the bigger tube sites, you'll see that the most popular content tends to be the user created content (i.e. home movies), which 99.99% of paysites don't offer, so that's not really a competitive factor.

What's not to get?

As a fan of Amateur content I can tell you the majority is not Amateur it's old paysite/dvd content.

When the surfer is at a MGP they have to click a new link every 30 seconds. It's annoying so they rather sign up. But now they can chill search thru thousands of complete videos comprised of their favorite niches. Not lose their hardon clicking a link every 30 seconds for 15 seconds of nudity.

A lot of Surfers really don't care about full screen hd video.
A lot of Surfers don't care about cell phone downloads..
A lot of sites do not offer live interaction with surfers.
A lot of surfers don't care about live interaction.
A lot of sites Do not update 20+ times a week.
A lot of "illegal" tubes update multiple times a day.
A lot of surfers have been dissapointed by a/the porn site they signed up to.
A lot of surfers don't care what they are getting off to as long as it gets them off.
A lot of surfers enjoy hunting thru a tube site seeing what they can find. It's like flipping the tv channels..


NONE of the "legal" tubes are doing as well as the "illegal" tubes..

[mynameisjim]

Thinking that ALL porn in the future will be free is just as foolish as thinking the tube sites will all go away. Same way people hate Bill O'Reily but love Bill Mahr and think it's o.k.

Obviously the future will be some hybrid of the two extremes. That's the way everything works. Picking one extreme, no matter which one, is just as short sighted.

[Ozarkz]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

If you look at the history of online porn, short as it is, you'll also notice that every generation of free site has generated alot of animosity and chicken little talk from the generation preceding it.

Picposts hated Link Lists and said all the free content would ruin the industry.

Link Lists hated TGP's and said all the free content would ruin the industry.

TGP's hated MGP's and said all the free content would ruin the industry. (although alot of TGP's morphed into hybrid TGP & MGP's and are still around...alot died off though)

TGPs/MGPs hate tubes and are saying that all the free content will ruin the industry.

Paysite owners have bitched every step of the way also.

In a couple of years Tube owners will be bitching about whatever is next, and complaining that it's going to ruin the industry.

I agree that Free porn has ALWAYS been in adult.. Free porn has changed in the last few years tho.. "Free Porn" has ALWAYS been the #1 marketing tactic for porn sites.. Give a little and hope they sign up for the rest.. It's really gotten out of hand tho..

Did sales plummet as much with the introduction of TGPs/MGPs as they did with the introduction of Tubesites? TGPs and MGPs were good advertising for porn sites. I agree with that.

I have a lot of surfers tell me they USED to go to TGPs and MGPs but now with Tubesites they don't bother..

What's next after tubesites? heh I'm scared.

[Socks]

Originally Posted by Ozarkz

A lot of Surfers really don't care about full screen hd video.

A lot of surfers are angry that their credit card got triple billed because they were tricked on a join form into paying for 3 memberships, two of which were much more expensive than what they were even signing up for.

Many vowed to "never do that again!"

[Jakez]

"Protecting content" is the biggest joke I have ever heard. What a waste of money and time...

Does anyone honestly think it is possible to do such a thing on THE INTERNET? ffs..

[collegeboobies]

well congrats figuring that out

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Socks

A lot of surfers are angry that their credit card got triple billed because they were tricked on a join form into paying for 3 memberships, two of which were much more expensive than what they were even signing up for.

Many vowed to "never do that again!"

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Jakez

"Protecting content" is the biggest joke I have ever heard. What a waste of money and time...

Does anyone honestly think it is possible to do such a thing on THE INTERNET? ffs..

I think it's possible to find the most popular tube sites and have them remove
your content.

That would put a big dent in stolen content.
Once you make a site take down some content they most likely will leave your
stuff alone after that.

Surfers aren't uploading copyrighted porn, thats 100% bullshit.
All copyrighted porn on a tube is uploaded by the tube owners.

Further, I have uploaded content that I owned and the tube site didn't post it.
So how do they not post my content but the coprighted shit slips thru everytime?

[Ozarkz]

Originally Posted by sortie

I think it's possible to find the most popular tube sites and have them remove
your content.

It's possible but not easy.

They rarely name the clips in a way that easily allows you to search a site name and find all clips.

Solo girls are easy to track down because they usually are named by the girl's name.

But unless you are looking with your eyes at every single update daily it's a difficult task.

Also the amount of illegal tubes makes it even more difficult..

[ExLust]

Neither of the two.

[SleazyDream]

idiot

...

[DWB]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

"protecting content" is a red herring IMO. It's just another way to blame someone else.
People are on here everyday saying "if the big sponsors would protect their content then tubes would die".

If protecting your content is all that's needed, let me ask you this. Let's say Playboy magazines were protected and the only way you could look at them was to pay for them, but Huster, Oui, Juggs, Score, Penthouse, etc were all freely available.
Would you pay for Playboy or just jerk off to what was available?

If you think people don't buy porn because it's available for free, then quit now, because there will always be porn available for free, especially if you're not rigid in your definition of "porn".

First of all, I wouldn't buy Playboy to wipe my ass with it. Using a print magazine is a bad example because their format of choice is a dying form of media.

There will always be free porn because some asshats don't know the true value of their content. What I do know is, the more I protect my content, the more my sales go up during a time when all I hear is gloom and doom. My sales are kicking ass and rebills are strong. Why? 1) Niche content. 2) We're proactive in removing that content anywhere we find it being given away for free. The results are increased sales and retention.

Take that for what it's worth but know that protecting MY content is going to allow me to be around a lot longer than those who don't protect theirs.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by Jakez

"Protecting content" is the biggest joke I have ever heard. What a waste of money and time...

Does anyone honestly think it is possible to do such a thing on THE INTERNET? ffs..

This may be one of the most foolish posts I've read on here in a long time.

1) We have our content removed daily and our sales and rebills have gone up as a result. Yes, it's an ongoing job but that's the nature of the beast. It sucks because of the time involved but guess what, my sales are going up.

2) We have won some very large settlements from companies who have stolen our content for profit.

If you think small, like you currently do, you will live a small and confined life. Think big and out of the box and you will be surprised at the business and life you can have.