I dunno sympathy is a hard word to use in the case of people who are over weight. Maybe understanding... or empathy. But sympathy?

And you are disregarding the incontrovertible laws of medicine, that sometimes shit doesn't work the way its supposed to. The human body is a tad more complex than mere physics, if that were the case cancer would be cured.

Human physiology, is about more than just physics, there's also biology & chemistry involved as well.

As much as I try, can't figure out how someone with weight disorders will affect your life, unless you're the owner of UA :helpme

on a side note, I feel simpathy for people who deserves it, no matter if they are fat, thin, black, white, christian, jew or whatever. Oh, and I bet 99% of the people in this board have overweight. I had 30 lbs overweight over my ideal weight a couple months ago and already cut 20lbs, but I know I will get them again eventually, it's a fucking rollercoaster. And I'm a very healthy person, just imagine people with real overweight problems. The WHO considers obesity a disease in all its aspects, happily I prefer to pay attention to doctors rather than GFY :winkwink:

everyone has problems in some way or another

haha.

wow.

"mere physics"

i am having serious doubts as to whether or not you even knew what the word "physics" is at the moment you typed that.

when its being labeled a handicap.
when its being labeled a disease.
when an airline is being told that they have to give a free seat to an obese person
when we have to start adapting our lives to someones irresponsible behavior
when our insurance has to pay for a horrible personal choice which becomes labeled a "disability"

etc etc etc

... it affects everyone.

moreover, it sends a horrible message to everyone and validates poor behavior and poor choices of an individual and paints the individual as a victim.

I agree with Scooter on this one...
I was once 330 pounds and finally took it upon myself to finally do something about it. I lost about 160 pounds over the course of about a year or so. I will admit that it was not a medical condition...it was simply the circumstances of my life...to much to explain. At the end of the day I had to make some very dramatic life changes that effected my family and my work, but it had to be done or I was going to die.
In any event, in most cases I do have sympathy for MOST fat people as i was once in their shoes.

I recently asked a very successful friend of mine, who is around 50 lbs overweight, if it was easier to make money or to lose weight. Without a nanosecond of hesitation he said it was much harder to lose weight.

Some countries seem to have less of an obesity problem than others.

Let me ask you guys this question:

If the govt were to outright BAN food products that were unhealthy for its citizens, would you be upset?

For example; transfats, white breads, growth hormones and antibiotics in meats and milk, aspartame, etc.

Would that be a problem for you? Would that be considered "big govt" and/or "socialism"?

The govt wants to keep pot illegal because it supposedly does not have any medicinal purpose, well then why are cigarettes legal? Think about it...

for the record... i am 5' 9" and 225 pounds. i have quite a bit of muscle, lift weights 5 times a week and am probably about 30 pounds over weight with a 36" waiste. i know what it takes to lose weight. i know how hard it is. i know how difficult it is for me. i have to write everything down, plan out my meals, weigh out my food, prepare all my food for the day and take it with me, i have to keep a log of what i am eating, i have to do at least 40 minutes of cardio in the morning in addition to hitting the gym in the afternoon etc.

no one here is going to be able to show me someone who has a good diet and exercise program that can't lose fat. its absurd. everyday, i see the same shit in the gym... obese people claiming they have their shit together, that hire a trainer but won't listen... that give 70% effort, won't write down what they are eating and don't stick to meal plans who can't wait to talk about their "genetic" problem.

i have tremendous respect for someone trying to lose a lot of weight and that is putting in the hard work and effort to get it done. i have zero respect for people with excuses who can't own their own consistently poor decisions that got them where they are and keep them where they are.

[QUOTE=Pleasurepays;15752059]when its being labeled a handicap.
when its being labeled a disease.

that affects YOU because...

when an airline is being told that they have to give a free seat to an obese person

that affects YOU because...

when we have to start adapting our lives to someones irresponsible behavior

that affects YOU because... (please detail the steps you had to take to adapt to fat people)

when our insurance has to pay for a horrible personal choice which becomes labeled a "disability"

that affects YOU because...
etc etc etc

... it affects everyone. sorry, too vague and still can't see how it affects you. Or me.

moreover, it sends a horrible message to everyone and validates poor behavior and poor choices of an individual and paints the individual as a victim.

well, I can agree with that, but I think it's way worse to play fascism against people than being fat. Anything and everything you mention would exist for people who's fat for medical conditions, such as pituitary gland affections. So unless you're proposing a "Final Solution" and send everyone who is fat or overweighted to a concentration camp or something, I can't see how you plan to solve this, how do you plan to label those who are fat because of medical conditions as opposed to those who are fat because of your own prejudice and definition about people being "lazy".

And as we're at it, do you plan to bomb McDonalds? Do you have an alimentary health plan for kids and/or schools? Do you have a health plan for the whole US? Are you going to ban all unhealthy food? and as we are at it... what is your definition of unhealthy? and what is WHO or FDA or government definition of unhealthy? should 99% of food factories in US (and the world) close because of your own prejudices? And all that just so a greedy company can discriminate fat people? Geez... :helpme:helpme:helpme:helpme

stop fucking eating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

Apparently you have never heard of the thyroid gland and the complications it causes when malfunctioning. The thyroid, you know, controls the metabolism your talking about. It also is important in producing key hormones that regulate that metabolism. Metabolism determines the rate at which a person can burn calories and thus has the ultimate effect on one’s weight.

There are several other medical conditions and diseases that can effect weight gains that are NOT related to over eating, lack of exercise, etc.

If you know so much about physics that you think you do, you would know it is merely a model with set rules and equations to determine properties, interactions, processes, and known laws. Information and data OTHER than the standard laws must be taken into account as well. What you fail to realize within your "ideal" or "perfect model" of physics, as already stated by another member, is that the human body doesn't always respond or work in the manner it should.

Take cancer for example, it starts it's life out as healthy cells or tissue that is triggered by a gene causing it to grossly and dangerously multiply and mutate. In your "ideal" or "perfect model" of physics, even though it is really about biology, those cells shouldn't mutate. But they do, just as some obese people are that way for reasons OTHER that not taking care of themselves.

Otherwise, in a perfectly healthy person, what you say is true.

My dad is in a similar situation, it's funny how the medication makes him gain weight. If he stops takeing his meds he actually loses weight.

I think there is no need for putting emotions into whether fat people need to buy two seats or not. We weigh our luggage and pay extra on overweight stuff, we also have to be able to fit our carry on luggage into the measuring frame to be able to take it on board. Same should go for people. If someone cannot fit into a single seat without spilling through the sides or weighs considerably more than an average traveler, they should pay extra and buy more space to accommodate them. Why make it so emotional and discuss whether or not it is medical condition...

I do have sympathy for fat people.

To clarify, I think a lawsuit over what airlines charge is stupid.

That being said, if we're talking about fat people (people who are obese, not people who have 10lbs worth of love handles or thick thighs) most of the time, their weight is a symptom of another problem, not the actual problem itself.

It's a complicated issue that I don't want to delve too deeply into, but there are usually deep seated emotional or psychological issues that drive the compulsive behavior that leads to being obese.
Telling these people to exercise and go on a diet is about as useful as telling someone with emphysema to take Robitussin. They will always fail because the weight is the symptom, not the actual problem.

Most people are ignorant of this. Both the non-obese person who thinks that fat people are just lazy or unmotivated, and the obese person who thinks that they are lazy and unmotivated.

I feel sympathy for them because I know what it feels like to be locked in a prison of compulsive and self destructive behavior, and not being able to stop even though you consciously know you're killing yourself.

You may think someone needs to kick these people in the ass and tell them to stop eating this and start eating that, but I promise you, every single one of them is 10 times more harsh with themselves than you're being with them.

Sorry but I fail to see whether a person should be considered as 2. So pregnant women should be charged twice? and short people or anorexic people should be charged half? Do you consider yourself "luggage"? And just news for you, it may be extremely shocking news, but you CHOOSE to carry more luggage. Peopla CAN'T CHOOSE to be not ill. And if you're in doubt, check all concepts about FREEDOM OF CHOICE, it seems like you're not getting it at all or you're opposed to it :Oh crap

It's also a demographic trend. As economies mature from physically-demanding agricultural to semi-demanding industrial to less physically demanding information economies, there might be a DISCONNECT between their calorie intake habits (borne from their previous economic stage) and their calorie requirements for their new economic stage. This might explain why economies that are transitioning to information economies often have higher obesity rates. Of course, the exception to this is Japan.

It is true too in a hypothyroid person

If the pregnant woman is so big that cannot fit into a single regular sized seat, she should too buy more space. Air travel is all about weight and size.

Also, people sitting next to the really big passenger are deprived of the space they paid for and that isn't fair. And I didn't say that I believe big people should pay for two seats, if anything, I would say 3 - I wouldn't want to be sitting on either side of the really big person :) Seriously, I think new planes should be equipped with special larger seats for "big" people or have the big people simply buy business class seats.

I believe airlines should eventually charge one base fee per passenger and then the rest of the charge should be calculated depending on how much you weigh (fuel consumption depends on weight).

a low thyroid (which affects something like 1:2,000,000 people doesn't mean you automatically gain weight no matter what you do. it means your metabolism is slowed down somewhat. it can be corrected with medication and regardless, doesn't change the math. if you require 1500 calories a day and you eat 1500 calories a day, your weight doesn't change. if you require 1500 calories a day and eat 2000 calories a day and run 30 minutes, your weight doesn't change.

its still all about how many calories you BURN in a day vs. how many calories you CONSUME in a day. having a thyroid problem (which goes both ways btw) does not change that simple fact.

Sure,I'll toss them a burger now and then :)

a simple fact of human nature is that reinforcing a behavior and approving of it, doesn't curb it. it encourages it. if you want to help obese people, start by saying "jesus man... you are seriously overweight and need to get your shit together"

you want to defend obesity... how is that helping anyone? saying "its ok to be totally obese and its not your fault" is neither truthful or helpful to anyone.


prejudices? are you fucking kidding me? 1/2 the fucking nation is obese. same with the UK. what the fuck? when did being obese suddenly become totally ok? how do you go from me saying people need to be accountable and responsible for their decisions to "bomb mcdonalds"?

discriminate against fat people? its a personal choice. if the cool new thing is to cut off your legs, don't come to me telling me that i need to accept it and make counters at all supermarkets 2 ft tall. its not discriminatory to say "no... i don't think that's reasonable".

if you want to be obese... be obese. more power to you. i don't think i should have to get crushed next to you on a plane or smell you or pay for your medical issues as a tax payer.

If you are fat because you have a 100% medical reason then yes, that sucks.


If you are fat because you do everything but attempt to loose some ass, then no. I dont have sympathy for you.

nope. not even a little bit. Being fat (for most people) is a choice. The ones that don't have a choice are the ones that are obese due to some medical condition. For them I feel sympathy for. Everyone else... including myself... need to put down the Burger King and go for a walk

sorry to say, but some people really can't help it, no matter how strictly fantastically healthy their diet is, even working out can't always help when there's tumors or Endrocrine-related obesity (Such as Cushing Syndrome). There was a documentary not that long ago following a woman who was healthy, an athlete even, worked out and over a period of less than a year put on over 300 pounds. Even her doctor couldn't figure it out until they looked into her endocrine system, and even then they couldn't regulate it with any degree of accuracy or guarantee. Some people are treated with more success, some go undiagnosed.

I have no sympathy for people who bitch about things they aren't willing to change, like obesity related to bad diet or lack of exercise, but I do for those who can't help it. There is no cut and dried, but the good MAJORITY of obese people CAN do something about it if they wish.

Cortisol, cortisone, people on those kinds of medications will gain weight without junking out or getting lazy.

Cortisol, the active form of cortisone, is a hormone involved in a variety of different bodily functions, from the immune system to the regulation of blood sugar and liver function. Taking cortisone to deal with other medical issues changes the natural balance of cortisone in the body and can't help but have systemic effects, including weight gain.

you are talking super rare things... not the everday turd who is fat and won't accept responsibility for it.

strangely, everyone who is obese is quick to point out its often not the individuals fault.. yet medical statistics don't support that. 50% of this nation is obese. 50% of the nation does not have serious physiological malfunctions in their body causing them to be obese.

:2 cents:

the math doesn't add up in the excuse dept.

Having a thyroid problem changes how much one has to do in order to burn the same 500 calorie difference though. If one person with a normal thyroid can burn that off walking around the block, someone with an underactive thyroid would have to run around the block 100 times for the same amount of metabolic activity. Seems like a pretty big difference to me :)

:1orglaugh

Most people have no medical reasons to why they are fat, but then again as a culture, we do little to give support to those who are at risk for overeating, not to mention we are very spoiled as a culture. Look at countries that aren't as "lucky" as we are in North America, and you will see that there are almost no fat people. You don't see too many fat Africans, or Mongolians, or South American Indians. They have entirely different cultures, they don't have the "temptations" available to them, etc. One thing that is interesting to see that as communities become more "civilized" and "modernized", how quickly the general population develops an obesity problem. There's more to it than each individual, but in the end it boils down to each individual. Sort of a catch 22.

you are grossly overstating the effects of hypothyroidism. you can't suppport the claim of "exercise X 100" - it would be more like X 1.2 or something.

you can have hypothyroidism and not know it. there are degrees. you can just feel a little fatigued sometimes or whatever. it doesn't mean you are condemned to be obese. it means your body burns about 1600 calories a day where it normally would burn 2000 calories a day... this means that you, as the person with this condition need to adjust your diet to 1600 calories a day. its not complex math ;)

it also determines how much energy you burn in a day... i.e. less than you otherwise would had you had normal thyroid function. that still puts it on you to adjust your diet and exercise regimen to compensate. you are not condemned to being obese. obesity is a choice.

its still math. period. there is no escaping the simple math. food has calories. calories are energy. your body requires energy. you eat calories for energy. at the end of the day, there is a surplus of calories, a deficit of calories or no change. you can't eat 1500 calories a day, burn 1500 calories a day and gain weight. that's just not possible.

everyone is "at risk for overeating" - but most people understand the basic principles of nutrition and the consequences of eating too much, eating what you actually want, when you want etc. ;)

they seem happy to me

if people are sad or depressed about being overweight I feel bad for them. Even if it's not related to a medical condition - people indulge themselves for emotional reasons, and good luck dealing with those. the only person i wouldn't have empathy for is somebody who is eating and drinking just because he loves to eat and drink like a kid let loose in a candy store - and then is angry or upset that he/she is overweight.

the VAST majority of obesity is all lifestyle and diet related, yes some people have a propensity to be overweight, my sister was like that, you can see in her baby photos and when she was a little girl, she didn't eat any more or exercise any less than her friends or me yet she was a chubbster. And when she was in high school she really let herself go, stress of being a teenager made her reward herself with the comfort foods, and her two best friends were also heavy girls, all popular, the funny goodtime girls, but obviously no boyfriends, my sister was the girl guys came to for advice - and then she went to college and realized it was now or never for her and she dropped god knows how many pounds, she turned into a petite cute girl. For the past 25 years she's never gone back to being obese, but it's a constant struggle.

Look, all you fat asses is this thread. Push yourself away from the table and get some god damn exercise! :thumbsup

P.S.

You will thank me in the morning. :pimp

No unless they have a medical problem.

One time coming home from Vegas this huge dude with arms the size of my thighs fucking blocked my tv controls on the arm of the chair. I did not want to start any trouble since after nine eleven the airlines take everything very serious. I would have to agree with the airline on this one even though I know cool overweight people. Even on NYC subways there could be this small space between people and they try and fit in between. If I were them I would go for the surgery to shrink the stomach.

Since I am on the computer so much I had to change my eating habits not to gain weight in the winter, I try to play a lot of handball during the summer to keep in shape.

more likely... they will accuse you of discrimination in the morning ;)

this is going to be TMI.. but.
In 2007... I had a period that last 8 months straight. I weighed 266lbs. I was working out with a personal trainer twice per week and on my own 4 times per week.. Each workout session my heart rate monitor would register 900+ calories burned. EVERY TIME. It was my goal...... eating between 1500-1700 calories..

We were staying in the Four Seasons... when I looked down and I swear I thought I was giving birth. I was bleeding down my leg horribly.

Next day I went to a gyno. Gyno told me, "You're eating too much..." I told her my exercise regime and gave her my food journal.. and she told me that I was probably sabotaging myself.. and brought up the words "PCOS"...

I google PCOS and found a support site online... I found a great doc here in Houston..

I get to the doc in Houston.. and find out that I have the testosterone of a dude (hence, my sex drive, competitiveness, and ambition)... I tell him my work out regimen... He has me food journal on his website... we get blood work.. and my free floating testosteron is somewhere in the 700s... a Normal MAN is in the 700s...

We also did the 2 hour glucose test.. first time we did it with the koolaid drink.. second time we did it with a DIET SODA...

We learned that my body floods itself with glucose for virtually any carb or fake sugar.. Even a "diet soda... even splenda... and any kind of white refined carb.

In February of 08. I decided I was going to change it all... From February 08.. to May 08... I had a shake every single morning... with some PCOS blend that had cinnamon and other things that help glucose in it... took my metformin.. got down to about 1300 calories per day.. still with the insane workouts...

I got down to 233. No cellulite. I could run 2-3 miles on the treadmill... larger mid section...

But keeping up a diet of strictly proteins and water was and is hard for me.. I get discouraged that I can't just work out like other people... While taking the meds and supplements for PCOS to lose the weight.. my thyroid fucked up.. one was masking the other...

So yeah it's discouraging that most women can just cut their calories to a certain level.. and lose.. I can't.

There are medical conditions. I could work out circles around most of the dudes on here... obviously not the meat heads.. lol but your average webmaster.. I'm a gym beast. I love to work out.. and most people never guess how much I actually weigh.

So yeah.. There are medical conditions that make it hard.. and I fully believe the PCOS developed as a result of hormones/steroids in food/meats I ate when younger..

I still adore working out.. and wish I could run a lot more at my weight without hurting joints/whatever.. and am considering some form of bariatric surgery in the future... supposedly bypass cures PCOS and insulin resistance issues...
---------

However.. I do think there should be an extra charge if they genuinely do spill over into the other seat.. even at 266.. I was contained in my own seat... while some women at 266.. would spill over... so I think there needs to be a test...

Not only that, but thyroid problems don't announce themselves! It's not like people who develop them or end up with them wake up one morning saying "Hmm, my thyroid feels funny" ...many times it goes undiagnosed.

I don't think anybody is arguing the "high percentage" of people who -can- do something about it and don't, but what we are arguing here is the idea that that's "all there is" and that there are no other contributing factors to obesity in some people.

Also many doctors don't prescribe when they should.. if you're at a 3-4 on the scale... and your weight is going up.. a doctor should ignore the normal levels.. and put you on at least 125..

That's why it's important to have a doctor who knows their shit.. my reproductive endo has been a godsent... and he understands that the lifestyle needed for a PCOS'er WITH thyroid problems is way different than a typical chick just dieting..