Why aren't more sponsors upgrading to NATS 4?

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  • Socks
    Confirmed User
    • May 2002
    • 8475
    #1

    Why aren't more sponsors upgrading to NATS 4?

    I just joined a new program and they're using Nats4.. I remember seeing another program in beta maybe 4-6 months ago that was showing it off, but I haven't really seen it since.. Especially the people already using Nats, nobody seems to be upgrading.

    Any reason(s) why?
    Tags: None
    • collegeboobies
      So Fucking Banned
      • Jul 2004
      • 3644
      #2
      bad economy?

        Comment

        • Socks
          Confirmed User
          • May 2002
          • 8475
          #3
          Originally posted by collegeboobies
          bad economy?
          Could be.. I just thought there might be something more specific, like it being prohibitively expensive, or there are technical problems to upgrade, or perhaps programs just aren't willing to put in the time and effort to change.

          Anyways hopefully a program owner can shed some light on this

            Comment

            • Socks
              Confirmed User
              • May 2002
              • 8475
              #4
              Thoughts?

                Comment

                • After Shock Media
                  It's coming look busy
                  • Mar 2001
                  • 35299
                  #5
                  Some could say that many have put in the requests and are just um ya waiting.

                  [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

                    Comment

                    • Sly
                      Let's do some business!
                      • Sep 2004
                      • 31376
                      #6
                      From the various people I've spoken with, upgrading to NATS4 seems fairly complex. Maybe it takes more initial setup than some are finding it worth, which would be why we are seeing it more with newer programs than with old. I'm really not certain though...
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                        • cybermike
                          Confirmed User
                          • Jan 2002
                          • 4121
                          #7
                          As an affiliate I like nats3 more.. nats4 requires too many clicks to get the tools you need
                          Hey surfers how about some The Best Porn Sites

                            Comment

                            • alexchechs
                              Confirmed User
                              • May 2008
                              • 3474
                              #8
                              Mo Money, Mo Problems
                              Alex Chechs
                              http://thefawnconspiracy.com

                                Comment

                                • GrouchyAdmin
                                  Now choke yourself!
                                  • Apr 2006
                                  • 12085
                                  #9
                                  Honest opinion? It's going to cost the standard program more to upgrade now than to slowly rebuild for v4.

                                  1) The revised admin is confusing.

                                  For the affiliate, the defaults are quite nice, but to the standard affiliate manager who don't understand a table join is, they can easily get confused, and leave things half-configured, or end up making 40 redundancies anywhere when 'forgetting to click the little pink arrows' for the next stage of the configuration. The flow resembles an M.C. Escher painting for most people - and it still trips me up sometimes.

                                  2) Virtually all third party tools will have to be completely rewritten

                                  The members data is now two tables wide where you can match on member id to get the same info, which is pretty trivial, but trying to directly look up transactions to match to a biller id without manually seeing what's setup in the biller admin is a chore since it references the local index rather than the given account number, and this data is still encrypted as it is in NATS v3, but now you still get to have another external lookup table.

                                  3) Biller support.

                                  About a third of the billler merchants are implemented, as compared to V3. Including former (dead) billers, there are 75 in NATS v3.1.58.1; there are 23 total available in NATS 4.0.44.1.

                                  4) Skins/Mailers/etc are not easily replicated and replaced.

                                  You can't just take an old skin and slap it on V4; many, many variables have changed; $available_data. is now $mdata. for join forms, as an example, and many of the globals have been entirely re-implemented.

                                  Here's how a mailer used to work for a default link code:
                                  {$nats_code[1][1]}

                                  Here's what you need to do, now for the same thing:
                                  {nats_list_linkcodes userid=$toid program=1 site=1 tour=1 data_only=1 code_only=1}{$linkcodes.1.1.1.0.0.0}

                                  Eventually everyone will move to V4, but many will not until they have no choice.

                                    Comment

                                    • GetSCORECash
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Mar 2008
                                      • 5527
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by Sly
                                      From the various people I've spoken with, upgrading to NATS4 seems fairly complex. Maybe it takes more initial setup than some are finding it worth, which would be why we are seeing it more with newer programs than with old. I'm really not certain though...
                                      Exactly!

                                      It took us a year from when we started to the final migration.
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                                        • Paper_Amar
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Jun 2007
                                          • 2607
                                          #11
                                          We just started working on ours, and will take 60-90 days ATLEAST!
                                          My icq; 4 4 7 5 4 2 1 2 8
                                          Amar @ paper street cash .com

                                            Comment

                                            • Tempest
                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                              • May 2004
                                              • 10217
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by cybermike
                                              As an affiliate I like nats3 more.. nats4 requires too many clicks to get the tools you need
                                              Exactly.. Why do so many of these people have their head up their ass.. WAKE UP!!!! We've ALLREADY signed up to promote the damn program.. now we need the tools and stats FAST and EFFICIENT.. We don't need fancy graphcs and crap...

                                                Comment

                                                • Pete-KT
                                                  Workin With The Devil
                                                  • Oct 2004
                                                  • 51532
                                                  #13
                                                  small critters craling around it ;)

                                                  still has some bugs, not everything is working yet i have a beta of it but wont go live till everything is fixed.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Socks
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • May 2002
                                                      • 8475
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by GrouchyAdmin
                                                      Honest opinion? It's going to cost the standard program more to upgrade now than to slowly rebuild for v4.
                                                      Yeah I guess from the technical point of view it's even more of a hassle since you have to fix all the problems.

                                                      Was there any reason to change it so much? Seems like people would have rather had updates to V3?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • WiredGuy
                                                          Pounding Googlebot
                                                          • Aug 2002
                                                          • 34512
                                                          #15
                                                          Why upgrade something that works fine on v3?
                                                          WG
                                                          I play with Google.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Raf1
                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                              • Oct 2003
                                                              • 12117
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by WiredGuy
                                                              Why upgrade something that works fine on v3?
                                                              WG
                                                              this was my first thought too
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                                                                • Thurbs
                                                                  The Thrilla in Manila
                                                                  • Sep 2004
                                                                  • 4785
                                                                  #17
                                                                  honestly .. after 4 years of Nats V3 and probably going through every bug / error or change possible, alot of programs simply don't want to upgrade. no guarantee that we wont be doing it all over again.

                                                                  100% the DB structure of Nats v4 is much better than Nats v3 ( Which is important imo, if your doing over 300 joins a day and have not entered into any custom DB maintenance setup )

                                                                  we have a Nats v4 install, and in some ways I wish we could roll out to all of our programs. Just not happening anytime soon, lot of custom code, addons, and more that would need to be ported and that takes time and risks alot of downtime

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Kron
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • Jan 2005
                                                                      • 1668
                                                                      #18
                                                                      as affiliate, I really dont like nats4, it is confusing as hell
                                                                      I dont exchange money!

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • slavdogg
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Jan 2001
                                                                          • 3570
                                                                          #19
                                                                          nats 4.0 sucks
                                                                          its useless, complicated, confusing.
                                                                          will confuse the shit out of most affiliates
                                                                          hard to compare or even see basic stats
                                                                          will force affiliates to spend less time looking at stats = less traffic for affiliate programs.
                                                                          huge learning curve that gets you no where

                                                                          should i go on ?
                                                                          Adult Traffic for Sale

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • slavdogg
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Jan 2001
                                                                              • 3570
                                                                              #20
                                                                              should i change my sig ?
                                                                              Adult Traffic for Sale

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • u-Bob
                                                                                  there's no $$$ in porn
                                                                                  • Jul 2005
                                                                                  • 33063
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  as an affiliate i prefer the nats4 interface.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Easton
                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                                      • 9825
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by WiredGuy
                                                                                      Why upgrade something that works fine on v3?
                                                                                      WG
                                                                                      bingo! i refused to be upgraded to v4
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                                                                                        • mule
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Jan 2002
                                                                                          • 6085
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          I'm seeing quite a trend of sponsors changing from NATS to CCbill or similar in the past few months. Must be the recession. It could also be a reason for people not upgrading...I can imagine people nervously watching their declining stats and considering dropping NATS alltogether won't be in the mood to update.
                                                                                          Converting like a mofo

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • cykoe6
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Apr 2005
                                                                                              • 4499
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              It is real simple. NATS 4 sucks. The interface is unwieldy and counter intuitive and even worse Stats Remote cannot seem to make themselves compatible with it.
                                                                                              бабки, шлюхи, сила

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • bausch
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Jul 2006
                                                                                                  • 3017
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Its too hard to read referring url stats in nats 4, you have to click an extra step and then the link isn't even clickable, you have to copy and paste it. It was much easier reading referral url joins in nats 3

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • fris
                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                      • Aug 2002
                                                                                                      • 55679
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      the waiting list to get upgraded is pretty long from what i hear
                                                                                                      Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence.

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • TeenCat
                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a koala
                                                                                                          • Jan 2007
                                                                                                          • 16139
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          i am running on win xp and i am designing in photoshop 7 ... why upgrade if i have all i need ... as was told in this thread already

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                                                                                                            • Manowar
                                                                                                              jellyfish  
                                                                                                              • Dec 2003
                                                                                                              • 71528
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              Originally posted by TeenCat
                                                                                                              i am running on win xp and i am designing in photoshop 7 ... why upgrade if i have all i need ... as was told in this thread already
                                                                                                              good point

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • Sly
                                                                                                                  Let's do some business!
                                                                                                                  • Sep 2004
                                                                                                                  • 31376
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by mule
                                                                                                                  I'm seeing quite a trend of sponsors changing from NATS to CCbill or similar in the past few months. Must be the recession. It could also be a reason for people not upgrading...I can imagine people nervously watching their declining stats and considering dropping NATS alltogether won't be in the mood to update.
                                                                                                                  Quite a trend? I've seen one do it. Who else is doing it?
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                                                                                                                    • slavdogg
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                      • 3570
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by cykoe6
                                                                                                                      It is real simple. NATS 4 sucks. The interface is unwieldy and counter intuitive and even worse Stats Remote cannot seem to make themselves compatible with it.
                                                                                                                      if you cant make your stats work with stats remote and affiliates cant understand the stats interface you're practicably dead on arrival. thats just my thought. I dont know for a fact that nats4 doesnt work with stats remote. I've always liked Nats, liked them enough to donate my sig. However if they cant make it work.. sadly enough they gonna go the way of clickman, click-thru-clavin and MKStats...
                                                                                                                      Adult Traffic for Sale

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • V_RocKs
                                                                                                                          Damn Right I Kiss Ass!
                                                                                                                          • Nov 2003
                                                                                                                          • 32449
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Getting linking codes out of the new system is a bitch.

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • TeenCat
                                                                                                                              Too lazy to set a koala
                                                                                                                              • Jan 2007
                                                                                                                              • 16139
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              more nats means more more

                                                                                                                              6bot                                                                                                                               / Coming again very soon!
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                                                                                                                                • Sausage
                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                  • 3012
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by mule
                                                                                                                                  I'm seeing quite a trend of sponsors changing from NATS to CCbill or similar in the past few months. Must be the recession. It could also be a reason for people not upgrading...I can imagine people nervously watching their declining stats and considering dropping NATS alltogether won't be in the mood to update.
                                                                                                                                  Who?

                                                                                                                                  Even if sales are slow you are only paying $150 a month for nats, and if you aren't making that then maybe you should be out of the paysite game all together.
                                                                                                                                  IW
                                                                                                                                  Skype : blance8888
                                                                                                                                  Icq : 15567120

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • Sly
                                                                                                                                      Let's do some business!
                                                                                                                                      • Sep 2004
                                                                                                                                      • 31376
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Sausage
                                                                                                                                      Who?

                                                                                                                                      Even if sales are slow you are only paying $150 a month for nats, and if you aren't making that then maybe you should be out of the paysite game all together.
                                                                                                                                      I agree. Dropping NATS for the fees I just don't see making any sense at all. The small package is $150 a month like you mentioned... it would only take roughly 15 to 20 affiliate sales a month to cover that expense.
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                                                                                                                                      Windows VPS now available
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                                                                                                                                        • bausch
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Jul 2006
                                                                                                                                          • 3017
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Nats 4 works fine in Statsremote here, Vividcash, Mofos and Nerdphobia are all using Nats4 and appear fine in my Statsremote

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • SomeCreep
                                                                                                                                              :glugglug
                                                                                                                                              • Mar 2003
                                                                                                                                              • 26118
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by WiredGuy
                                                                                                                                              Why upgrade something that works fine on v3?
                                                                                                                                              WG
                                                                                                                                              Exactly. My opinion as an affiliate is that I like the old NATS version way better than the new version.

                                                                                                                                              When I'm looking at my stats, and I want to grab my affiliate links, I hate having to click "Tools" just to get back to a page where I click on "Links," where I can finally generate my affiliate links. "Links" should be available from any page, like it is in the old NATS. I also dislike how the new NATS has "apply time frame" and "change view" on the same page. It's confusing and I have to mess with it a few times every time before I get the view that I want.

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                                                                                                                                              I use and recommend Webair for hosting.

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                                                                                                                                                • Dirty F
                                                                                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                  • Jul 2001
                                                                                                                                                  • 59204
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Paper_Amar
                                                                                                                                                  We just started working on ours, and will take 60-90 days ATLEAST!
                                                                                                                                                  So you pay shitloads for software like this and then need that long to get it running?

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • Dirty F
                                                                                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                      • Jul 2001
                                                                                                                                                      • 59204
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by SomeCreep
                                                                                                                                                      When I'm looking at my stats, and I want to grab my affiliate links, I hate having to click "Tools" just to get back to a page where I click on "Links," where I can finally generate my affiliate links. "Links" should be available from any page, like it is in the old NATS.
                                                                                                                                                      How can a company who creates software aimed at webmasters not understand this?

                                                                                                                                                      I really don't get this whole nats thing. Seems like a waste of money and time to me.

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • Dirty F
                                                                                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                          • Jul 2001
                                                                                                                                                          • 59204
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by V_RocKs
                                                                                                                                                          Getting linking codes out of the new system is a bitch.
                                                                                                                                                          I'm not here to bash Nats but this shit is just beyond me...

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • bausch
                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                              • Jul 2006
                                                                                                                                                              • 3017
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              Reading referring urls is the worst in Nats 4...

                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                • Socks
                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                  • May 2002
                                                                                                                                                                  • 8475
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Sly
                                                                                                                                                                  I agree. Dropping NATS for the fees I just don't see making any sense at all. The small package is $150 a month like you mentioned... it would only take roughly 15 to 20 affiliate sales a month to cover that expense.
                                                                                                                                                                  As an affiliate I prefer CCBill, I promote enough sponsors already to have individual programs and checks.

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                    • TMM_John
                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                      • May 2004
                                                                                                                                                                      • 6664
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks to those with constructive feedback (i.e. referring URL issues). It will be taken into account over the next couple weeks.

                                                                                                                                                                      Also, based on user feedback of half loving the new interface and half hating it there is a "simple" skin to be released to all NATS 4 programs in the next couple of weeks which you may choose if you prefer.


                                                                                                                                                                      Too Much Media - Makers of the Industry's Leading Payite Management Platform, NATS!

                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                        • bdld
                                                                                                                                                                          $100,000
                                                                                                                                                                          • Dec 2001
                                                                                                                                                                          • 11452
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          i hate having to go to my account to create a campaign, then to tools and then link codes, the older versions made it so much easier.

                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                            • TMM_John
                                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                              • May 2004
                                                                                                                                                                              • 6664
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by bdld
                                                                                                                                                                              i hate having to go to my account to create a campaign, then to tools and then link codes, the older versions made it so much easier.
                                                                                                                                                                              This will be addressed shortly also. You're not yelling into the dark if you have a valid concern.


                                                                                                                                                                              Too Much Media - Makers of the Industry's Leading Payite Management Platform, NATS!

                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                • Socks
                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                  • May 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 8475
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Happy this turned into some constructive commentary you can use John!

                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                    • gandalfuy
                                                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Jun 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 4686
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      Im still waiting for the update since November 2008!

                                                                                                                                                                                      Seriously
                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not back.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                        • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                          Too old to care
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 52942
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          NATS 4 looks like a lot of hard work, money and resources to have another tool dreamed up by a programmer with a PhD. To him it was the most logical thing ever.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Tempest
                                                                                                                                                                                          Exactly.. Why do so many of these people have their head up their ass.. WAKE UP!!!! We've ALLREADY signed up to promote the damn program.. now we need the tools and stats FAST and EFFICIENT.. We don't need fancy graphcs and crap...
                                                                                                                                                                                          What this industry needs today more than ever is money spent on the inside of the sites. we need to win the customers back to buying. After 8 years of spending lots of money on the outside of the site are you going to tell me we got it right?

                                                                                                                                                                                          Tools are important, but not as important as having a willing customer.



                                                                                                                                                                                          Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
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                                                                                                                                                                                            • After Shock Media
                                                                                                                                                                                              It's coming look busy
                                                                                                                                                                                              • Mar 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 35299
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                              What this industry needs today more than ever is money spent on the inside of the sites. we need to win the customers back to buying. After 8 years of spending lots of money on the outside of the site are you going to tell me we got it right?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Tools are important, but not as important as having a willing customer.
                                                                                                                                                                                              They are not in the content business. They are in the software business. They provide tools to gather data, assist in making sales, and the like. They need to keep innovating and upgrading no matter what you think we have or do not have gotten right.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Naturally your post jumps to the assumption that every single fucking website out there has it wrong, is not giving its customers what they want, blah blah blah. Then again I suppose sites such as FTV, twistys, azani, etc. are still also getting it all wrong and do not need such tools. There are of course hundreds of such sites out there giving their customers what they want and doing damn well at what they do. - However fuck them right, TMM should stop trying to innovate their product because so many are not giving the customer what they want. Thus do the very thing to their customers that you are bitching about in the first place.

                                                                                                                                                                                              On another note yet off topic of the thread itself yet not of your reply. It makes perfect sense for many to pay more for a CMS to run their members area as it gives them not only data about their customers, it gives them interaction, provides the customers with more, and we all know that it is much easier to keep a customer than get a new one. Knowing what your customers like, what they are viewing, clicking, etc. helps everyone out - assuming they use the data.

                                                                                                                                                                                              PS - I heard a rumor that you were not posting here any longer out of sickness, guess someone fibbed to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                              [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

                                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                • Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Too old to care
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 52942
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by After Shock Media
                                                                                                                                                                                                  They are not in the content business. They are in the software business. They provide tools to gather data, assist in making sales, and the like. They need to keep innovating and upgrading no matter what you think we have or do not have gotten right.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Naturally your post jumps to the assumption that every single fucking website out there has it wrong, is not giving its customers what they want, blah blah blah. Then again I suppose sites such as FTV, twistys, azani, etc. are still also getting it all wrong and do not need such tools. There are of course hundreds of such sites out there giving their customers what they want and doing damn well at what they do. - However fuck them right, TMM should stop trying to innovate their product because so many are not giving the customer what they want. Thus do the very thing to their customers that you are bitching about in the first place.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  On another note yet off topic of the thread itself yet not of your reply. It makes perfect sense for many to pay more for a CMS to run their members area as it gives them not only data about their customers, it gives them interaction, provides the customers with more, and we all know that it is much easier to keep a customer than get a new one. Knowing what your customers like, what they are viewing, clicking, etc. helps everyone out - assuming they use the data.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  PS - I heard a rumor that you were not posting here any longer out of sickness, guess someone fibbed to me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  They need to adapt the existing program to make it easier and better, not try to sell something that looks like it's harder. Will they upgrade for free? But as you said they are a software company and that's how they make their money. Does it bring more money into the pot for all of us if we all upgrade to NATS 4?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  As for the stupid, yes stupid statement of quoting a few companies who have it right and assume all is well. I thought you had more sense than that. Clearly I was wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Or are you saying people are going to Tubes sites because paysites are a better option? All sites should aspire to get to the level of FTV, Twistys, Sapphic and more. The problem is too few do. They spend too much on driving around a reluctant buyer to sites he's seen a thousand time before. This industry needs to spend more money on what customers buy and less on driving them around.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  The rumor was I would post less. Accuracy never was your forte. I have just come home from hospital where I was having 6 days chemo therapy for cancer in the tongue. I was able to come home during the day and about all I can do is post on boards. Sparring with guys like you does not require a lot of energy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Last edited by Paul Markham; 04-14-2009, 02:55 AM.



                                                                                                                                                                                                  Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    • After Shock Media
                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's coming look busy
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Mar 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 35299
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Paul Markham
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The rumor was I would post less. Accuracy never was your forte. I have just come home from hospital where I was having 6 days chemo therapy for cancer in the tongue. I was able to come home during the day and about all I can do is post on boards. Sparring with guys like you does not require a lot of energy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Why would a rumor someone told me even be expected to be accurate, let alone take another chance at taking a jab at me when I clearly state it was a rumor - not something I read, saw you post, whatever. You can not even back up what you said about me and accuracy either btw.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sorry to hear your having to deal with cancer. Had my own last year and dealing with another now. I am super lucky that way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Nats pretty much operates off of a lease arrangement (some people do buy it outright). So far any and all upgrades have been free that I am aware of and are part of your monthly lease fee. I do not know for sure as I do not pay for nats myself, I just know several that do including a few I work with. Yet all other lease type programs I personally deal with get free upgrades.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Most people that are ass fucking others, really do not need to spend money on back end shit unless it makes up selling even easier. They typically use their money on getting additional merchant accounts, buying up sales from others, etc. Every so often they will toss out some money to some shooters to give them some of the same type of content they always buy. Yet that is on the low end of the list, hell it seems even lower than having affiliate reps.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

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