Question about chi1d pr0n.. - GoFuckYourself.com

XXXPaysiteDesign · 11-22-2002, 02:48 PM

Just to play devil's advocate..

What if one of the large sponsors decided to change one of their sites to a chi1d pr0n site? Would all of the affiliates that are sending traffic to the site be involved the legal issues that would occur?

In other words.. if a we're sending traffic to a sponsor and they have CP, would we be held accountable for their actions?

Probono · 11-22-2002, 02:52 PM

As the prosecuting attorney I would argue YES, you bet; you should have known.

Same if you have a pay site being fed by someone using anything illegal you would be held liable.

XXXPaysiteDesign · 11-22-2002, 02:54 PM

I guess what I'm trying to say is what if overnight they made the change and before all links could be removed 10,000 hits were sent to them, we would be prosecuted?

(note that this did not happen, just asking out of curiousity)

Probono · 11-22-2002, 02:56 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Probono
[B]As the prosecuting attorney I would argue YES, you bet; you should have known.

XXXPaysiteDesign · 11-22-2002, 03:01 PM

So you're telling me that every second of every day we are all at risk of being thrown in jail for inadvertently promoting CP?

Sly_RJ · 11-22-2002, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Probono
As the prosecuting attorney I would argue YES, you bet; you should have known.

Same if you have a pay site being fed by someone using anything illegal you would be held liable.

How can one absolutely control every bit of traffic they receive?

Probono · 11-22-2002, 03:11 PM

If they want to nail you or just use you to make a very public example you will need to grab your ankles.

Affiliate programs are very dangerous because they can make a case that you are liable for everything in the chain.

I do not think it has been done criminally yet but it has been done with copyright liability.

The key thing to remember is they do not need to prevail in court, just arresting you followed by the press and ensuing legal bills will make you go bye bye.

This was a tactic used by the Regan administration to target porn in their time. Lots of local prosecutions most without merit wore down the industry financially.

[The Leader] · 11-22-2002, 03:20 PM

Don't send traffic to someone you don't trust.

Lexxx · 11-22-2002, 03:24 PM

Nope... one has to prove "intent", and them changing links would be an act to deceive you, not you "intending" to promote cp...

[note: I have no clue]

lawpal · 11-22-2002, 03:35 PM

It depends on many factors.

I don't agree with the general statement made earlier that affiliate programs by themselves are dangerous. It seems to me that the scope of your potential liability would depend on how your association to the program is manifested in the operation of your websites. A key question then becomes whether you aware that the sponsor began to promote a CP site? and, if so, did you actively promote them. That alone would probably put a nail in your coffin, but failure to promote would be, in my opinion, a strong defense. Knowledge, however, puts you on notice of illegal activities, and therefore it could be argued that you assumed the risk of association with a criminal enterprise. That is a very dangerous argument because the probability is that in the matrix of all legal arguments a federal prosecutor will make, you can be sure that some form of conspiracy argument is likely to be among them, and it will be the most likely charge used to suck in members of affiliate programs.

Did you promote the CP site? If so, you are probably fucked. Direct participation is like putting a bullet in your ass legally. If you directly participate, and therefore directly promote the use of commerce to facilitate the transmission of illegal content, you will have little in the way of defenses.

There are some other vague issues which don't have much of an answer with regard to legal liability. Was your traffic redirected by the sponsor to the CP site? Were you advised in the terms and conditions of their affiliate agreement that they might redirect some of your traffice without your consent?

The only thing I agree with probono about is that by arresting you the negative publicity could fuck up your life, and the legal fees you would incur to defend claims regarding association with child pornographers could easily add up into multiple thousands of dollars.

As always, never easy questions, and never easy answers.

XXXPaysiteDesign · 11-22-2002, 03:41 PM

Good info lawpal, just to clarify none of this has actually happened to me or anybody I know.

The reason I posted this is because I recently told my family what my job is, they all brought up CP, which I found very disturbing. My grandmother brought up that fact that by affiliating with any program that might be using CP I would be legally liable because I was making money from them.

Just made me think..

Warphead · 11-22-2002, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XXXPaysiteDesign
The reason I posted this is because I recently told my family what my job is, they all brought up CP, which I found very disturbing.

Damn. When is the outside world going to realize asking us about child porn is like going to Rite Aid and asking about crack.

I watched CSI the other night and the whole show just irritated the fuck out of me with all the misinformation.

XXXPaysiteDesign · 11-22-2002, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Warphead

Damn. When is the outside world going to realize asking us about child porn is like going to Rite Aid and asking about crack.

I watched CSI the other night and the whole show just irritated the fuck out of me with all the misinformation.

I agree 100% and was pretty disappointed that my own family would even consider that I might be getting into something like CP.

The Other Steve · 11-22-2002, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Probono

I do not think it has been done criminally yet but it has been done with copyright liability.

Wasn't there a case in Florida last year where they picked up a few webmasters who had inadvertently linked to a site run by a husband and wife team?

11-22-2002, 02:48 PM	#1
XXXPaysiteDesign Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 2,201	Question about chi1d pr0n.. Just to play devil's advocate.. What if one of the large sponsors decided to change one of their sites to a chi1d pr0n site? Would all of the affiliates that are sending traffic to the site be involved the legal issues that would occur? In other words.. if a we're sending traffic to a sponsor and they have CP, would we be held accountable for their actions? __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

11-22-2002, 02:54 PM	#3
XXXPaysiteDesign Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 2,201	I guess what I'm trying to say is what if overnight they made the change and before all links could be removed 10,000 hits were sent to them, we would be prosecuted? (note that this did not happen, just asking out of curiousity) __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

11-22-2002, 03:01 PM	#5
XXXPaysiteDesign Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 2,201	So you're telling me that every second of every day we are all at risk of being thrown in jail for inadvertently promoting CP? __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

11-22-2002, 03:11 PM	#7
Probono Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Under the Rainbow Posts: 2,731	If they want to nail you or just use you to make a very public example you will need to grab your ankles. Affiliate programs are very dangerous because they can make a case that you are liable for everything in the chain. I do not think it has been done criminally yet but it has been done with copyright liability. The key thing to remember is they do not need to prevail in court, just arresting you followed by the press and ensuing legal bills will make you go bye bye. This was a tactic used by the Regan administration to target porn in their time. Lots of local prosecutions most without merit wore down the industry financially. Last edited by Probono; 11-22-2002 at 03:12 PM..

11-22-2002, 03:24 PM	#9
Lexxx Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Boston Posts: 1,489	Nope... one has to prove "intent", and them changing links would be an act to deceive you, not you "intending" to promote cp... [note: I have no clue] __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

11-22-2002, 02:52 PM	#2
Probono Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Under the Rainbow Posts: 2,731	As the prosecuting attorney I would argue YES, you bet; you should have known. Same if you have a pay site being fed by someone using anything illegal you would be held liable.

11-22-2002, 02:56 PM	#4
Probono Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Under the Rainbow Posts: 2,731	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Probono [B]As the prosecuting attorney I would argue YES, you bet; you should have known.

11-22-2002, 03:20 PM	#8
[The Leader] Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Van City Posts: 1,026	Don't send traffic to someone you don't trust.

11-22-2002, 03:35 PM	#10
lawpal Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 824	It depends on many factors. I don't agree with the general statement made earlier that affiliate programs by themselves are dangerous. It seems to me that the scope of your potential liability would depend on how your association to the program is manifested in the operation of your websites. A key question then becomes whether you aware that the sponsor began to promote a CP site? and, if so, did you actively promote them. That alone would probably put a nail in your coffin, but failure to promote would be, in my opinion, a strong defense. Knowledge, however, puts you on notice of illegal activities, and therefore it could be argued that you assumed the risk of association with a criminal enterprise. That is a very dangerous argument because the probability is that in the matrix of all legal arguments a federal prosecutor will make, you can be sure that some form of conspiracy argument is likely to be among them, and it will be the most likely charge used to suck in members of affiliate programs. Did you promote the CP site? If so, you are probably fucked. Direct participation is like putting a bullet in your ass legally. If you directly participate, and therefore directly promote the use of commerce to facilitate the transmission of illegal content, you will have little in the way of defenses. There are some other vague issues which don't have much of an answer with regard to legal liability. Was your traffic redirected by the sponsor to the CP site? Were you advised in the terms and conditions of their affiliate agreement that they might redirect some of your traffice without your consent? The only thing I agree with probono about is that by arresting you the negative publicity could fuck up your life, and the legal fees you would incur to defend claims regarding association with child pornographers could easily add up into multiple thousands of dollars. As always, never easy questions, and never easy answers.

11-22-2002, 03:41 PM	#11
XXXPaysiteDesign Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 2,201	Good info lawpal, just to clarify none of this has actually happened to me or anybody I know. The reason I posted this is because I recently told my family what my job is, they all brought up CP, which I found very disturbing. My grandmother brought up that fact that by affiliating with any program that might be using CP I would be legally liable because I was making money from them. Just made me think.. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.