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I've suffered a HUGE drop in sales since August and I've had more than a couple webmasters email me with "Did they turn they internet off?" Seriously, one guy had a friend buy a subscription from another state just to see if his site was still alive.
What's the culprit? I'm not so quick to dismiss the economy since it seems to be more than coincidence that it all hit at the same time. The danger could be that surfers will change their patterns permanently because of it. Another culprit, at least in some of the specialized nichemarkets I service, is the uploading of videos to peer to peer networking sites. Some webmasters make less, more specialized videos and if you can download them by the dozen off of *****, well how long is that webmaster going to last? I'm going to stay put hoping that a turn around in the economy will make a difference, if it doesn't then I'll probably be going back to computer repair. |
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The vast majority of people are not downloading movies and the ones that do, wouldnt be buying that movie in the first place. The reason why mainstream DVD sales are down is because of the ease associated with dvd rental places such as NetFlix and RedBox and the ease of cable on demand. In this economy why bother purchasing a DVD you will watch once when its super easy to throw it on your NetFlix, watch it and send it back and get the next one. It's the same reason why family friendly DVD's are selling better than ever. Kids watch movies over and over and over...and over. It's worth paying the $20 to buy a DVD that will be watched 100 + times. As with most things in life, dont try and overthink it. Its common sense. |
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if the graph would go further back, to mid 2000-'s, that would be a real shock to see how the tgp's like sleazydream.com collapsed |
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the industry changed totally in last 2 years
some people pretend it didn't happen, others are the lucky ones who really havn't seen it the 70% of webmaters who went back into McDonald's won't be able to reply to this thread anymore though |
This thread delivers - Marked
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I don't want to waste your time , just letting you know that I still didn't recieve the payments ...
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My point is: the people who know how to get something for free but still decide to pay have other motives that make they want to pay for it, because there is no NEED to pay for it anymore, and it's beyond just wanting to watch THAT. Talking specifically from what I've seen in the aspiring filmmakers groups, they know how to get things for free, they're broke, but if they loved some Indonesian movie that is an import DVD and costs 45 USD, they'll eat beans for a week even if they could have just downloaded it slowly throughout said week from pirate bay. Thinking that there is not THAT much people downloading movies is naive and stupid, over 1 million people downloaded Disaster Movie, and it's the shittiest thing ever made apparently. |
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We are talking about larger targets here. |
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My point is: the people who know how to get something for free but still decide to pay have other motives that make they want to pay for it, because there is no NEED to pay for it anymore, and it's beyond just wanting to watch THAT. Talking specifically from what I've seen in the aspiring filmmakers groups, they know how to get things for free, they're broke, but if they loved some Indonesian movie that is an import DVD and costs 45 USD, they'll eat beans for a week even if they could have just downloaded it slowly throughout said week from pirate bay. Thinking that there is not THAT much people downloading movies is naive, over 1 million people downloaded Disaster Movie, and it's the shittiest thing ever made apparently, imagine how many downloaded Watchmen for instance. EDIT: Another problem a lot of webmasters seem to have is that they have never actually been surfers/freeloaders or porn buyers themselves. While that's not necessarily good, it helps figure out what they want ;) |
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You have pretty much explained my own patterns, and that of people I talk to for my niche and on forums. They will buy good content from the site if you have it. People are not going to settle for garbled videos on some tube site if they actually are buyers. I know I won't. I will go buy it, assuming they actually watermark their fucking shit and I can find it. However, for some reason people thing you are going to get the thief to pay for porn, the same as RCAA thought they were going to. You have to face the fact that some people are broke ass thieves and are going to steal your shit regardless to get their rocks off, or their cyber kudos. :2 cents: |
Rich people download music, there are HD Rips on the torrents, it's not just about being broke or about the quality. And there are people who wouldn't be thieves if they were completely unable to get the items for free: some would be smaller scale buyers, and some wouldn't buy at all BECAUSE they are broke, the problem is now that the people who wanted to spend JUST because of the content, now realize they don't have to.
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1. People will pay for a good or service they like/love and support. 2. I do not think most in this thread have experience in... clip stores, member or patrons email, pay sites, content, niche or direct contact with their target audience to make sweeping broad generalizations as to what 'everyone' can or does. 3. A LOT and I mean a fucking TON of this industry thinks like a webmaster, not even close to their target markets. It is no wonder sales are down by a mile for some. 4. There is this belief that all porn buyers, and watchers are Mr Fucking Wizard and know all these tricks to get free porn. I know a lot of people in my RL. I have asked probably hundreds if not thousands over the course of my time in this industry and not ONE of the them knows how to use torrents, peer to peer, or many of the things mentioned daily on this board. They DO know about TGP's and tubes and admit to using, or watching them. |
1. I agree :)
2. I agree :) I didn't mean everyone, I said "a lot of" 3. I seriously agree 4. It's the new generation that is the problem mainly, but while the old generation don't know how to use torrents etc, they do know how to use youtube, my 65 year old aunt does, and there is soft niche stuff there - and when you google for porn you get a "porn youtube" |
If not donations, I think micro-payments have huge potential. Like a clip store, but without the store aspect. If only the processors could allow say $2 charges for a single video file, etc, it would be easier for the surfer to swallow than a commitment like a monthly subscription that they have to remember to cancel.
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4. I would agree to some degree with my age group, 30-40, maybe they are not as tech savy. However, because of modeling, I deal with a LOT of 18-25 characters. So I ask them as well. I also field all the e-mail from members and patrons. I can tell you that most of these folks are not Mr Wizard or even close to tech savages. Same as I recognize a lot of repeat buyers, returning members, and so on whether buying memberships or clips. Sure, some are going to steal, and maybe there is more fetish and niche out there on tubes these days. However, the thief is not going to pay whether it was a :2 cents: or a $29.95 membership. They are going to try and get passwords, torrents, downloads, free forum posts, or whatever. They will spend 10 times the effort to get something, rather than simply paying. They are never going to buy, and you are never going to convert them. |
You guys have hit some great points. But what I think you are forgetting to mention is that it's not just the influx of free porn, it's not just tubes, and companies banging 8 charges on one signup.
Surfers have much much more to do these days. There is so many community sites that keep people busy. Someone who might have spent 2 hours each night surfing porn will now jerk off to his old collection for 10 min and spend the other hour and 50min surfing twitter, youtube, myspace, facebook, and many others. There is so many other options on the net these days. 8-12 years ago the net WAS porn. So many people came here to get porn. Think about the options before the net. You had to find a video store that had an adult section. You then had to stand in line with your video in hand while your neighbor and her kids stood behind you. Either that or you could take your chances with magazine at the local liquor store. Maybe rent a video from your TV. The net made porn accessible for the average person. So many people have interest in porn. But only a small percentage would actually have the nerve to go rent a video. The net gave everyone discreet ways to view porn. For years we would break our sales records every January. Because so many people would get their first computers and eventually find our sites. Now people are born with computers in their households. They grow up with them. They join all sorts of communities. There is just so many more options of things to do on the net now. |
LAMike, now that's just depressing. You're saying we've hit market maturity for home computing and internet access, I guess. Hm.
This is where someone will pipe up and say, "But China and India are getting online everyday!" I'm not sure if the average porn site will appeal to China and India, though.. |
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Elli, I guess I am saying that to some point. You can see it across the board for all adult. Not only online but DVD sales have taken a huge hit. Part of the problem is saturation and the other I believe is there is just too many non porn options out there. I know other countries are growing and there will always be business opportunities. However, I think most of the free online adult money is gone. There is money to made but not as easily in the past. |
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People are watching MORE PORN than at any other time in the history of Earth. Women are even starting to watch porn out of curiosity. They are just not paying for it. But people are watching more porn than ever before, that is a fact. What I do know is tube sites are doing more and more reposts and the surfers realize it. If you follow tube sites and the user comments, you will see them complain when there is a repost. Point is, if legit webmasters started locking down their content the tube sites would slowly dry up from a lack of content. The surfer would get tired of the lack of new content and would slowly start to search out porn again. It really is that easy. |
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It has to do with a combination of free porn and the mass amount of SHITTY PORN YOU ARE TRYING TO SELL!! It's always been shitty but in the past surfers were willing to look past it and buy anyway because they didnt have options. Now that shitty porn is available for the price its worth on tubes: FREE. And you cant blame tubes, they realize that by taking all this shitty porn they can build traffic empires that they can use to sell other items besides shitty porn. Back in the day you actually had to have some sort of star quality, sets, production..something. Then the internet and gonzo came along and every dipshit with an HD camera and a horny ugly girlfriend decided he could be a content producer. Then normal content producers started to get cheap to compete and now you have bad porn filled with Eastern Euro skanks. The money was great for affiliates because you didnt have to have any skill because the customer had nowhere else to turn. Now as with any industry that has started a maturity process and you actually have to work to make money. And by working I mean making higher quality content, distributing that content in a more effective manner and giving the customer a reason to actually purchase something. Again common sense. |
foo bar?
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Rapidshare sites and porn b b shit boards.
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I 100% agree. If the supply of new content to the tubes is diminished, the tubes will lose their sex appeal. Addressing the original question, in my niche I have found sales ratios from the join page to be fairly constant, but I need 2x to 3x the traffic to get surfers all the way thru my tour and to the join page. |
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It's quite stable on this graph, it's in the 50s and I have a feeling the flucations are huge on these levels. That's why I think it's going down and up. Before tubes I remember seeing The hun being in the 200s, there are three tube sites in the 50s of Alexa, grabbing a lot of adult traffic pie. And the hun were at around 3 million visitors at it's peak. If not this year, tgps will die in the next couple years. Seems like an image error, here is RedTube chart: http://www.imagecross.com/02/image-h...746redtube.jpg |
The bottom line is, conversion ratios are worsening because overall net porn sales are declining year over year for the entire industry. Notice I did not say overall traffic is declining, just sales. There are less sales out there to be had, so the trick is to compensate by driving more traffic.
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Check out the trends for YouPorn as well, all three parameters are down across the board. So much for the talk that that tubes are killing porn. Porn is killing porn.
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beep beep.
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My bet is that's far better than the average Tgp. (The irony) Google have 8.56 page views 3 months average. Pornhub have 8.5 page views 3 months average. Some of you should just admit, this adult tubes are controlling a ton of traffic. Traffic no one thought were possible to get a few years back. MrLuvr, I glanzed before posting, I'm not gonna try to convice you. The tubes have no traffic, and all adult surfers are gone. If that's what you want to believe, so be it. A half a year ago or so Google were 3:d on Alexa, now, how do you explain this? Just look at the numbers son. :) |
Things do tend to swing and it would be nice if the law against pirating or using other people's content swung the other way a bit. Otherwise we are in for a long year and maybe a near death to the industry as we know it.
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the traffic graphs are being overanalyzed to death. Its the economy stupid. Everything is shitting the bed except mcdonalds & walmart. It is logical that the free porn traffic is growing & pay traffic is shrinking. When the buyers return the free porn will make the buyers selective, so your best bet is selling niche or brand building.
Duh. |
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by default, not every webmaster can increase their traffic if traffic pool stays the same |
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Might be till it was rare and scarce, it was exciting - like you get excited renting a porn dvd every two weeks or visiting your fav paysite time from time, but if you can watch a shit load of it every day - it gets odd. |
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Actually, this makes me realize I don't know anyone around me, who would ever pay for porn. |
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I am afraid the days of the wild wild porn west are gone forever, and the numbers will never recover, open your eyes, check people's PC's and laptops, they have there hundreds of giga bytes of stolen and downloaded video out there, they have no problem to fill it with new stuff any day they want. You might still make a good living if you target the right audience with the right product, but you'll hardly make what you COULD do even say 4 years ago. and you'll hardly ever effectively target the GENERAL audience that only wants a quick jack off. The core reason for the steady and huge demand was totally destroyed by giving out the fast jack off for free. What do you want to do? Camz, dating? - good luck and a wealthy sponsor! TV - good money, but you need to be really tough and have a bit of luck too to close them DVD - dead Mobile - fuck mobile - carriers are charging you to death (50 - 60 pct.) it's a huge hassle and you most likely need a company that has a contract with them as a middleman, and now with the new super flashy phones, you can go to the internet directly anyway not having to deal with their overpriced bullshit off portal makes sense, on portal is a major fuck up What did I miss? Magazines, phone sex? Christ, you don't want to deal with 60 something sleazy matadors, trying to explain you how they made money for their first golden chain in the 70's and how it sells No way BUT Are you able to make a living on the internet ? YES Are you able to make them convert ? YES BUT you can't be dumb, too conservative, unprofessional, unexperienced etc. You gotta keep an eye clearly on what makes YOUR money, what do you get per 1000 uniques? You gotta keep the pimp hand strong on who YOU do business with - are you sending traffic to someone who's fucking up and stealing YOUR OWN traffic running some shady no affiliate links free shit? End of the post! |
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Ok, that was a major fuck up, because it was "projected" while I was not even in the company and you CAN'T even see the EMAILS of the affiliates as an admin! Ok, I've let that all rebuilt from the scratch, new cms, new billing, new tours, it was a major pain but now I have something completely functional, everything is rebuilt from the scratch. My deep apologies, please send me your ID, email, payment info to [email protected] and if I wouldn't confirm that, bug me! I'll also give you a direct contact on our accountant who s responsible for this. Once again, my apologies for the fuck up. |
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people are still signing up for porn sites. but you're not going to find out why on gfy.
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very true, I see more and more people addicted, wasting time with the web 2.0. bullshit every day, soon they won't even go out to get laid |
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You can sell shitty stuff and make a bank as far as it's rare. You can't sell shitty stuff if it's everywhere for free. |
i wouldnt panic until tubes film exclusive stuff covering every niche and put up great quality clips with new updates.
should be about another year until that happens so cash in quick or cash out. |
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