GETTING PAID - for photographers - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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ContentPhotogs

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#1

GETTING PAID - for photographers

03-06-2009, 11:06 AM

Hey.
Ok so I cant find the thread someone mentioned about us photographers getting burned lately for jobs sent in to the website companies..

We've been content photographers/producers for about 5 years.

Up till recently, we'd send in a job and get paid within about 10 days. Then it went to about 15 days. Now we aren't seeing checks or wires at all for at minimum 25 days to 30 days +++. When we call we get the standard answer "check's in the mail" yeah right.

I have spoken to the owners of the sites and they say things have gotten slower, and they are over burdened with content, which I believe the first part, but we get approved to shoot certain girls so the second part is a bit bogus. ALTHOUGH I have heard some photographers are getting greedy/desparate and sending in 5, 10 shoots at a whack.

Most companies have a LOT of photographers approved to shoot for them and usually the max you should send in is 4 per company per month. Those who are not getting paid for 10 shoots are killing us who abide by the policy and are spreading our shoots out between DIFFERENT companies and sending in the alloted 3-4 per month.

So what are we all going to do about this? Times are very very tight and I heard someone say even Larry Flint asked for a Porn Bailout. Dunno if its true but sounds appropriate.

Any one else have any info on what we should do, or even if staying in this business at all is viable?

Thanks
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Fletch XXX

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#2

03-06-2009, 11:07 AM

itll get better man

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HorseShit

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#3

03-06-2009, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

itll get better man

uh, no it won't idiot
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DeanCapture

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#4

03-06-2009, 11:21 AM

Your not the first producer to come here and complain about not getting paid in a timely manner. My suggestion is to not put all your eggs in one basket. Spread yourself out between numerous clients. Try to find clients who will take better care of you and slowly start moving away from the clients that don't take care of you as quickly as you'd like. It's a process that takes time but it's possible.

Good luck!

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Mutt

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#5

03-06-2009, 11:28 AM

if they approved models for shoots they should be paying up - that's just plain wrong. content shooters don't get paid any deposit usually, they front the costs for the whole shoot. anything later than 30 days after receiving the content is bullshit on the buyers' part.

sales in the toilet? don't be approving new models then and jerking photographers around.

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ContentPhotogs

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#6

03-06-2009, 11:31 AM

Thanks Dean. Wish it was as simple as that. Most companies are doing the same across the board. The only difference would be you are owed $$ from 4 people instead of 1 or 2. Totally sucks.
The thing is too, the companies are going to go out of business by default, since most of us cannot operate on net 30, costs too much to produce exclusive content: ie, when everyone who is worth a shit stops working for them, what they are trying to save by holding onto their cash is going to kill them by having a lot of newbies come in, work for less with shitty content. Then the subscribers who were just barely hanging on to their websubscriptions will cancel for sure. Self fulfilling dilemma..

The only way we can keep the exclusive content good is to pay adequate / above average models which is not cheap. Cheap content = failure. Good content = success. But good content takes $$ to produce.

Anyone doing payroll for models, if so is it working? That is the only other thing I can think of.

Originally posted by DeanCapture

Your not the first producer to come here and complain about not getting paid in a timely manner. My suggestion is to not put all your eggs in one basket. Spread yourself out between numerous clients. Try to find clients who will take better care of you and slowly start moving away from the clients that don't take care of you as quickly as you'd like. It's a process that takes time but it's possible.

Good luck!
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ContentPhotogs

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#7

03-06-2009, 11:34 AM

EXACTLY mutt.

But they want the good shit so they keep approving based on trying to hang on. It is unscrupulous. Honesty would be better, but they don't want to miss out on having content they might be able to sell to keep their sites going...

Yes we are fronting all the costs, that's the hard part. It is going to be impossible to front thousands of dollars and wait 30 days or more (don't call us about it we will call you mentality) to get reimbursed.
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#8

03-06-2009, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by DeanCapture

Your not the first producer to come here and complain about not getting paid in a timely manner.

No, but as far as I can recall, they are the first one to come here and post using a fake nic and no specific info about their claim/concern.

As for this thing about 4 orders a month or whatever, I've NEVER had that imposed on me by ANY client but maybe that's because I don't ship them 10 orders at once.

I have a couple of clients who do not pay upfront and some of them have been paying a little slower but I'm still getting paid none the less.

As far as I am concerned, I should be paid the moment the clients get the email invoice saying their shoot is complete. I'm not new or unknown and have never had one of these particular clients return a shoot unsatisfied. I have been doing business with each of them for years so I think my request is reasonable. At the same time, I'm not their accountant nor do I control the way they choose to do business. As such, I simply accept the fact that my money is coming a bit slower than I would like.

At the end of it all, I'm still getting paid and making a profit.
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DeanCapture

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#9

03-06-2009, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by ContentPhotogs

The only difference would be you are owed $$ from 4 people instead of 1 or 2. Totally sucks.

Well that's the point of having multiple income revenue streams. I would rather have $$ coming from 12 people then to have to jump through hoops to get money from 1 or 2 people. Yes it's more work but your less likely to get fucked over with 12 clients then you are with only 1 or 2 clients who are jerking you around.

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XPays

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#10

03-06-2009, 11:47 AM

anyone tried an escrow account? have the client put money in escrow, then bill them as normal. if they miss an invoice, deduct from the escrow.

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DeanCapture

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#11

03-06-2009, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by AaronM

No, but as far as I can recall, they are the first one to come here and post using a fake nic and no specific info about their claim/concern.

I don't have an issue with them using a fake nic or not providing more info on the client. Calling the company out would surely mean no more business from them. He probably hasn't gotten to that point yet where he feels the need to expose them....I can appreciate that.

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notime

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#12

03-06-2009, 11:50 AM

get paid in advance from now on or atleast a part of it
50 cents
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Mutt

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#13

03-06-2009, 12:00 PM

most companies will laugh at you if you ask for 50% upfront on exclusive content - maybe if you're in a bind some will help you out by fronting you some money if your stuff is valued by them but 50% upfront as regular terms - won't ever happen, didn't happen when programs were making money hand over fist so it won't happen now that things are much tighter for most programs.

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#14

03-06-2009, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Mutt

most companies will laugh at you if you ask for 50% upfront on exclusive content - maybe if you're in a bind some will help you out by fronting you some money if your stuff is valued by them but 50% upfront as regular terms - won't ever happen, didn't happen when programs were making money hand over fist so it won't happen now that things are much tighter for most programs.

And there lies the challenge AND the risk
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ContentPhotogs

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#15

03-06-2009, 12:07 PM

Yes Dean, my goal is not to bite the hand that feeds, just feed me a bit quicker please before I starve!

Besides calling them out would not help, they are already getting calls and emails up the ass over it. My goal is to perhaps find a solution to the issue, not exacerbate the issue with harrassment.

The only thing I am afraid of, is when you start paying your bills later and later that means there is less money to pay them with. At what point do we all get burned as they BK?

Hmmm

Oh, escrow is a good idea but none of them are really concerned about their photographers survival to endorse it. Usually their mentality is "there are more of you where that came from" and you can be replaced in a heartbeat. None of them have any real loyalty to us , sad but true. I don't really expect any loyalty, honestly. Its part of the game.
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#16

03-06-2009, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Mutt

most companies will laugh at you if you ask for 50% upfront on exclusive content - maybe if you're in a bind some will help you out by fronting you some money if your stuff is valued by them but 50% upfront as regular terms - won't ever happen, didn't happen when programs were making money hand over fist so it won't happen now that things are much tighter for most programs.

We shot with 50% upfront since we started and it's same now.
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#17

03-06-2009, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by ContentPhotogs

Usually their mentality is "there are more of you where that came from" and you can be replaced in a heartbeat. None of them have any real loyalty to us , sad but true. I don't really expect any loyalty, honestly. Its part of the game.

Yes this is very true & very sad. However, I can tell you that not all content buyers have this mind set. There are buyers who do appreciate what producers bring to the table "especially" if you bring something unique. If your just a run-of-the-mill shooter, then there are plenty of others who can replace you. If you have a unique style or better service then the next guy, you'll get treated differently. The key here is finding those clients that think like that. They are out there - just gotta find them.

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ContentPhotogs

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#18

03-06-2009, 01:57 PM

Who are you shooting for Lycos? I have asked that 50% question to a ton of buyers both originally and even now, its always No Way! Usually they fear US taking the money and running, but its really us who have blind faith we will get paid for what we sent in.

Funny thing is, there is always a contract we sign and send in but there is never one they send us promising to pay. Ironic or ? whatever.

ALL the companies are this way. Good for them = the standard rule.
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#19

03-06-2009, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by XPays

anyone tried an escrow account? have the client put money in escrow, then bill them as normal. if they miss an invoice, deduct from the escrow.

What is that? where can i see more details?

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#20

03-06-2009, 04:23 PM

there is a great variety in the time it takes to get paid from various programs.
some make pre-payment which is great
some pay the day after they receive the content which is also great.
some pay after a couple of weeks which is totally fine and then some pay after a month..
mix them up and you have a steady income stream.

on a different note, some of us are cash strong and eventually we will stay in business whilst those strapped for cash may have to close shop.
perhaps this is a good thing, will weed out the "weaker" producers...and leave better business for the remainder of photographers.

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#21

03-06-2009, 04:38 PM

I have been shooting content for almost 20 years, and of course if you have an assignment from a company that you have a relationship with , and they have honestly said to you can you give us time, then it is understandable, if they do not answer it is unacceptable. You must establish yourself as doing top quality content for top quality clients. In tough times low ballers come out of the wall and shoot unacceptable content. Ask for an advance, if they say no these are people that you do not want to work for. I am fortunate to work for top clients that respect shooters.

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#22

03-06-2009, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Mutt

most companies will laugh at you if you ask for 50% upfront on exclusive content - maybe if you're in a bind some will help you out by fronting you some money if your stuff is valued by them but 50% upfront as regular terms - won't ever happen, didn't happen when programs were making money hand over fist so it won't happen now that things are much tighter for most programs.

I couldn't disagree more. The 50% deposit is not required to make the investment smaller/easier, but to give shooters a guarantee that the client is serious about the order and won't just disappear once it's all done.

Especially if the content is a micro niche one or unique in any way or the client wants their own release used.

Sure, I got some clients who I don't ask for the 50%. These people we've been working with for years. Anyone newish or with less than a perfect reputation pays half upfront. Seems to work fine, I never lost a job over it and most importantly, I have never been ripped off...

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#23

03-06-2009, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by JP-pornshooter

on a different note, some of us are cash strong and eventually we will stay in business whilst those strapped for cash may have to close shop.
perhaps this is a good thing, will weed out the "weaker" producers...and leave better business for the remainder of photographers.

Weeding out the weaker producers is "great", because everybody who can stay in the game gets a bigger piece of the pie, but the root of the problem is that the pie is getting much smaller. That's the sad part...

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JP-pornshooter

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#24

03-06-2009, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Gary_TLX

Weeding out the weaker producers is "great", because everybody who can stay in the game gets a bigger piece of the pie, but the root of the problem is that the pie is getting much smaller. That's the sad part...

tell that to GM, their sales were down over 40%.. i am sure they would be very happy to sell more cars , just like you and me would like to sell more content. But we have to adapt to the changing market economics or we can find other source of income.

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#25

03-06-2009, 05:20 PM

cutting lawns is good money, i pay 80 bucks a week to have my yard done,,, go figure..

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notime

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#26

03-07-2009, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by Peace

What is that? where can i see more details?

www.escrow.com
I use it also when I buy or sell a domain.
This is where you put a third party in between
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#27

03-07-2009, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by ContentPhotogs

Who are you shooting for Lycos? I have asked that 50% question to a ton of buyers both originally and even now, its always No Way! Usually they fear US taking the money and running, but its really us who have blind faith we will get paid for what we sent in.

Funny thing is, there is always a contract we sign and send in but there is never one they send us promising to pay. Ironic or ? whatever.

ALL the companies are this way. Good for them = the standard rule.

No, all the companies are not that way. The majority of my clients pay 100% up front and have for a number of years. No, I will not mention names because A: My clients = my business and B: why piss them off by telling you who they are if they are paying me up front but not others?

A lot of it has to do with the relationships you build....Not always but quite often you can negotiate different terms including a higher pay scale and pre-payment.

On the flip side....I've had a client pay me in excess of 35k up front and then we've had delays for one reason or another. I stayed in communication with the client and eventually filled their order. That particular client and I still do business on a regular basis and they still pay 100% up front. They know I will deliver the product.

I have a grand total of 3 clients who do not pay 100% up front and one of them has agreed to start doing so.
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ContentPhotogs

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#28

03-07-2009, 10:43 AM

Hmmm. Maybe I should start asking.. Or find new clients like you said. The ones I have now are very very big, and are not paying any of us upfront at all. Curious you have that relationship, you are one of the lucky ones. ;o)
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