again... two wars, reshaping the government, the housing crash etc. you are talking about problems much larger than growing tax revenue to the federal government by XX%

if you can't look at the economic problems within the proper context and within the context of all the variables and factors... then its a pointless discussion

Bush didn't cause the an economy to crash
Obama isn't going to cause it to recover

A president is representative of one branch of 3 branches of government.. they're not gods.

We have to go through these cycles because the political system, by design, caves to short term thinking... and no one can just let things run its course and no one wants to accept that contraction comes with expansion and everyone thinks that you can grow an economy at a nice pace and never see contraction. doesn't happen. won't happen. can't happen.

So here we are. a huge clusterfuck and more of the same idiots (both parties) acting like they can play god with the economy because they don't understand the economy or money or wealth creation or job creation or owning a business or starting and growing a business or anything else that has to do with the real world.

If everyone had all the answers and they were undeniable fact... there wouldn't be "economic theory" - there would be "economic facts".. and we wouldn't even be having these debates in spite of the fact that what we are seeing today is pretty much business as usual in the economic world. 20 years of the fastest growth in the global economy ever... and it contracts at the end... before growing again. all government needs to do is get out of the way, stop trying to confiscate and redistribute peoples money and let the markets work. saying "free markets" caused the situation today is dumb. it has to happen. it is exactly what is supposed to happen. its exactly what has always happened and will continue to happen... growth, some contraction (in proportion to growth) .. .followed by recovery and a long period of growth. business as usual.

:1orglaugh

No, not really at all. A couple of parts are fine, but overall I know it's bullshit. However - I agree 'more' with this bailout - than I did with the direct Bank and Crap market bailouts that Bush pushed through. And the American people clearly agree with me on that.

I have already done my research to know the bill really isn't full of fat, I'm allowed to disagree with some parts and I know some will fat to it, but understand that other Americans agree with those parts and don't agree with mine. And I expect and understand that money would move around, like it always has with any president - so padding the pockets is of course, going to happen.


In general though, I do think the free market is 'some what' failed, I do know for a fact greed in 'all markets' caused this and the fact that it's open and not regulated help make sure this problem could never be corrected. - So overall what Obama is doing - I'm so far fine with since I know the old way - failed.

"Based largely on broad proposals made by President Obama"
"Anyway... Most of the bill WAS lifted off the Desk of Bush."

Those are my quotes, just making sure you can understand what I'm going to type..


Again, where do you think Obama "got" the information? So, if Obama takes the information from Bush - then proposes information "largely" but not "fully" based on "his ideas" - then it means he got the information from another source, modified it, and added in a few goodies for him....

That doesn't mean he copied "exactly" what Bush wrote... Got that Capt Stupid?

"Bailouts that Bush pushed through"

really?

you mean the entire government wasn't almost 100% uninimous in the decision to rush them assloads of money?

that was hardly a partisan event.

:2 cents:

I love America

OMFG I'm not reading any further...

Oh you mean the several bailouts that the "MAJORITY" of Americans didn't agree with? - vs. - Obama that Majority of Americans "STILL" agree with on the Plan? That's the people that really make a shit... not a unanimous decision from people that need pockets padded.

thats a fucking lie. your dumb. go fight kimbo and shut up!

the majority of americans weren't being affected when AIG went tits up. the majority of americans barely understood what was happening when the dominos started to fall and really seem to not have a much better idea about how we came to be where we are today,... much less understood AIG and the consequences of it failing at the time.

people are dumb.
people are emotional
people are comfortable being 100% uninformed and having an opinion

Anyone who thinks the overall economy would be much better now if John McCain would be president is a liar, fool, or propagandist/cheerleader for the republican party.

If the markets are crashing due to lack of faith in Obama, then we should blame wealthy republicans/conservatives for selling,shorting .... along with blaming Obama for not having better long-term solutions.

and you are a boublil :2 cents:

Blah...This conversation has turned to total shit. People just need to stop whining and accept what is happening and take care of themselves. Does it matter who is responsible for this? Can we change what Clinton, Bush or Obama have done? No. Shut the fuck up, do what YOU need to do to survive and have a Pepsi.

P.S. I love you all, in a non-gay way.

yeah I stopped posting in it... LOL


oh yeah when is the band getting back together... NKOTB did it I think it's our turn.....

Communism/socialism system crashed ...
Now it is the turn of capitalism to crash ..

Why ????

Because both systems were abused.


Maybe Obama could do an " Operation Freedom " to give back hardons to Splum, DirtyDanza, Pussyman and the gang ... Nothing like a good war :1orglaugh

War is good. :2 cents:

how come no one told that to bush about clinton.

every damn thing that went wrong for his whole two terms
was clinton's fault. now everything's obama's fault
and you cant blame the last guy anymore?

There is only one thing Clinton is guilty of during the Bush years and that is not taking care of Osama Bin Laden and that network when he had the chance. Other than that there really is nothing Bush could blame on Clinton imho.

Who says the Bush administration is guiltless here? Not I. The guilt lies with many parties, my issue is Obama's "fix" is not a "fix" at all. He had a chance to save this country and he chose to push his liberal agenda instead. Half of you will love getting free third world health care where you have to wait months for an appointment and you have to apply to the government for surgeries. Half of you will love getting free welfare cheese and food stamps for your kids as long as child services can pay a visit to your home once a year.

If you make over 250k you are the enemy to the Obama administration. Good luck with that.

The irony is deep with this one.

I am just so damn afraid of the coming HYPER FUCKING INFLATION. It's like playing on the beach with your dog and suddenly a 100 foot wall of water appears. You have a good 2 minutes to run, but your jaw dropped, your eyes bugged out, and you can't move a fucking muscle.

That's how many people feel. M3 money supply just went up a SHITLOAD here in the Philippines. In the US, the stimuli/bailouts are pumping up the money supply.

It's like watching a terrible terrible fucking movie and not being able to do shit......

It's obvious that Obama is just another puppet.

Americans usually are very slow to react to crisis like this, and their memories are very short, but trust me when the shit goes down, I am confident this country will rise up and defend its core principles again. Socialism is an enemy of the constitution of the United States, capitalism promotes individual freedoms enabling all of us to be as successful as we choose to be(you have to do the work).

Bush was a socialist

I thought you said he was a fascist?

He will have his fingers in enough combat to keep everyone happy.

You need a gun to defend yourself from mommas on welfare with 10 kids...

Because obvously there is no father of those children? :error

But hey take you own advice, forget buying a gun, itll make it easier for the rest of us to take what you have.

no, i said that letting lehman brothers fail was the catalyst for this huge mess. Repubicans agree. Plus, u have senators like lindsay graham calling for banks to be nationalized. Last I check, he isnt a liberal, yet hes proposing to nationalize banks. U cant go more socialist than that.

Do you even know why Lehman Brothers collapsed? :error

Nationalizing banks are a temporary compromise, we need to nationalize the banks to sell them off to PRIVATE entities after the toxic assets are dealt with. There is nothing socialist about that, that is simply damage control.

You simpletons amaze me. :1orglaugh

This is the change you can believe in.

Because they don't want to blame wall street which is where they live? Get a clue it is ten times easier to blame Obama now. "He did all of this in his few months in office." I am not a huge supporter of Obama but i am not going to drink the cool aid going the other way either.

As for him spending more $$$ then any president in history. How can that be when GWB had pretty earmarked all of this spending on his way out?

Oops, sorry I got involved. At first I thought you were ill informed and now I will back away from the crazy man very slowly......

:1orglaugh

shut the fuck up for once:2 cents:

This is usually my opinion on these types of things as well :thumbsup

Those of you slamming Obama, how would thinks look with McCain in power? What about long term?

McCain would already be in a pine box being carted down the road to Westminster Hall from the stress of the situation.

Anybody with half a brain knew Obama was a fraud, why does everyone act so surprised?

He is a great speaker but that it. I am still surprised Americans were so stupid to elect him ... it was so obvious he was a fake. You have him and his merry band of liberal nutjobs now so good luck :) All bow to your new overlord!

people left to their own devices are scum - so true 'free market' economies can't and shouldn't exist, there have always been rules and the way the scumbags operate today there needs to be more rules - there's enough freedom in the economy - enough freedom that millions of jobs were shipped elsewhere. there isn't a free-er economy in the world than the American economy.

anybody who claims to understand the economy is a liar - they make it up as they go along and you have a bunch of egghead economists studying past economic history and trying to apply it to the present where the financial markets are controlled by this side game of 'derivatives' - which turns this 'free market' economy into one giant roulette wheel - society at large isn't served well in an economy based on high stakes roulette.
The directors and management of Fortune 500 companies can slink away with their millions, the average Joe loses his entire retirement savings and his job.

look under his eyes - the stress of the job is already showing on him :Oh crap

Says the guy with a crappy little shit a piss paysite. Who is the real idiot. :1orglaugh

Yeah no shit. I mean he has allready been directed to piss off all the right wing retards by overturning all these Bush policies in the first day. Who needs stem cell research when God will save us. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

And the twats are speaking again. Yep he's been in office for a whole 6 weeks. The stimulus was passed last week. Why the fuck isn't it working?

He just got the desk re finished because he had to sand out the "george bush is cool" scrawlings. Give the man some time to get to the serious stuff.

He is an ass
 

Rush L. is one big asshole....and I do mean HOLE...

hahahahahaha where's larry craig's republican gay ass :1orglaughhttp://www.gfy.com/images/icons/tongue2.gif

People who put the blame solely on Bush or Obama don't fucking get it at all...

You mean Muppets, they are NOT "People"... :mad:

One party runs around screaming about free markets and capitalism. They also scream at the top of their lungs and call any government intervention socialism. I guess the hypocrisy is what people are calling them out on.

it is you're :2 cents: