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SilentKnight

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#1

Do you rotate out older content on your site?

02-19-2009, 05:10 PM

I'm curious how many of you rotate out older (original) content on your paysites as new ones are added.

Recently we received an email from a paying member who said he was disappointed that he only had access to 6 months worth of updates on one of our sites (subscription rate of $29.95/mnth).

We've rotated out older content for several years - since we've always felt it wasn't fair to loyal members who continually recurred each month.

Any input?
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#2

02-19-2009, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

I'm curious how many of you rotate out older (original) content on your paysites as new ones are added.

Recently we received an email from a paying member who said he was disappointed that he only had access to 6 months worth of updates on one of our sites (subscription rate of $29.95/mnth).

We've rotated out older content for several years - since we've always felt it wasn't fair to loyal members who continually recurred each month.

Any input?

Your rotating out your content... not rotating your content per member? I would not throw away old content ever
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#3

02-19-2009, 05:13 PM

ive been in this business a long time I have no clue what rotated out content is?

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BVF

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#4

02-19-2009, 05:14 PM

Why in the hell would I rotate out content? That makes no fucking sense.....The goal of having a paysite is to have as much content as possible up in there, which is why you're supposed to update regularly.

I'd be pissed as HELL if I could only get the last 6 months of content....My members get content from way back in 2001.....Only reason I could see this happening is if I couldn't afford bandwidth or something.

Last edited by BVF; 02-19-2009, 05:15 PM.

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#5

02-19-2009, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

We've rotated out older content for several years - since we've always felt it wasn't fair to loyal members who continually recurred each month.

Any input?

Serious question....How isn't it fair to loyal members? What is the downside to a loyal member by keeping old content in there....Please explain.

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Barefootsies

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#6

02-19-2009, 05:18 PM

We haven't in the past, but once I get a few more things done. I will be doing it when I revamp the sites. 12 months, and that is it for $29.95. If you want older material, or YEARS worth. You pay more.

We are about rewarding patrons, and long time members. Not providing 1000+ clips, 5+ years worth of content for a song. We already give them more than a lot of pay sites that have been around for 10 years!

Time's are a changing, and we are going to restructure out business model across the board to provide more choice, and tiers of membership. We do not retire content as we have the clip stores, and working on some VOD and other alternatives. But $30 is too little for 1000 scenes.

It simply is not good business.

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#7

02-19-2009, 05:26 PM

i think you have to think about it as its easier to keep a customer than have to look for a new one. i think giving them everything gives more value and more to look at and keeps them longer.
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Sly

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#8

02-19-2009, 05:29 PM

Some People "rotate out" older content and post it again as new content as a way to save money... with the thought that not many people rebill over six months or a year so it's worth it. But I really don't quite understand your rationale behind it. You rotate out content and do what with it? You don't even reuse it? I really don't see the purpose.

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#9

02-19-2009, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Sly

Some People "rotate out" older content and post it again as new content as a way to save money... with the thought that not many people rebill over six months or a year so it's worth it. But I really don't quite understand your rationale behind it. You rotate out content and do what with it? You don't even reuse it? I really don't see the purpose.

yeah reusuing i fully understand

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#10

02-19-2009, 05:43 PM

If you have FHG's out there for a girl and someone joins to see that girl but she's not in the member's area, you will have a problem.

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#11

02-19-2009, 06:11 PM

Karups sites have absolutely everything! The surfer stays for that reason. Some of the members have been there for years and would be pissed if their favorite Sunday afternoon while the wife is a the mall wack off clip was suddenly missing.

Yeah makes no sense. If it's a bandwidth issue, it will pay itself off.
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SilentKnight

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#12

02-19-2009, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by BVF

Why in the hell would I rotate out content? That makes no fucking sense.....The goal of having a paysite is to have as much content as possible up in there, which is why you're supposed to update regularly.

I'd be pissed as HELL if I could only get the last 6 months of content....My members get content from way back in 2001.....Only reason I could see this happening is if I couldn't afford bandwidth or something.

Now...let's say you've been a recurring member on the site for six months - paying for each monthly update for the duration. And along comes the newbie signup who pays for one month and gets all the same content as the loyal 6-month member...except he's getting it at a fraction of the price.

We take our older content and rotate it to a separate 'Best of...' website at a much discounted membership price.

I think of it in terms as a magazine purchase. Let's say you buy a single mag issue at $14.95. Naturally you wouldn't get all the back issues included for that price.
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SilentKnight

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#13

02-19-2009, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by RRRED

Karups sites have absolutely everything! The surfer stays for that reason. Some of the members have been there for years and would be pissed if their favorite Sunday afternoon while the wife is a the mall wack off clip was suddenly missing.

That's what right-click and save is for.
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#14

02-19-2009, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

Now...let's say you've been a recurring member on the site for six months - paying for each monthly update for the duration. And along comes the newbie signup who pays for one month and gets all the same content as the loyal 6-month member...except he's getting it at a fraction of the price.

We take our older content and rotate it to a separate 'Best of...' website at a much discounted membership price.

I think of it in terms as a magazine purchase. Let's say you buy a single mag issue at $14.95. Naturally you wouldn't get all the back issues included for that price.

I can't see how I as a customer would give a fuck about the newbie signing up and getting to see old content....I just don't see it and I wouldn't even think about something like that as a customer....I have fhg's from girls way back in 2000 floating around...I still have people ask me about girls that I've shot years ago that I will NEVER find again....

I view my pornography as art and it is for the collectors out there......Plus I've shot girls years ago and then shot them later and their whole body has changed......

I just fail to see the downside in just leaving the old content in there besides the fact that it will run me some more bandwidth....It's better for the customer plus it's easier to just leave the content alone and just keep adding to the pile.

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#15

02-19-2009, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

That's what right-click and save is for.

You DO know that there are NUMEROUS reasons why someone wouldn't save porn to their computer right? I could think of a gang of em right off the top of my head.

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#16

02-19-2009, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

Now...let's say you've been a recurring member on the site for six months - paying for each monthly update for the duration. And along comes the newbie signup who pays for one month and gets all the same content as the loyal 6-month member...except he's getting it at a fraction of the price.

We take our older content and rotate it to a separate 'Best of...' website at a much discounted membership price.

I think of it in terms as a magazine purchase. Let's say you buy a single mag issue at $14.95. Naturally you wouldn't get all the back issues included for that price.

How is he getting it at a fraction of the price? Because there is more that?

I cannot believe there is anyone sitting around thinking "man, I would rather not have access to old content simply so that new members don't get a better price per set than me." The only thing members care about is what they have access to.

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#17

02-19-2009, 06:24 PM

The surfers get pissed when their old fap material is gone,downright hostile

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#18

02-19-2009, 06:29 PM

We don't rotate with scoreland.com with the solo model sites we do rotate n that works well for that type of site.

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#19

02-19-2009, 06:30 PM

nope. i want to have a shitload of stuff for people to look at.

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Barefootsies

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#20

02-19-2009, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

I think of it in terms as a magazine purchase. Let's say you buy a single mag issue at $14.95. Naturally you wouldn't get all the back issues included for that price.

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#21

02-19-2009, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Sly

How is he getting it at a fraction of the price? Because there is more that?

I cannot believe there is anyone sitting around thinking "man, I would rather not have access to old content simply so that new members don't get a better price per set than me." The only thing members care about is what they have access to.

Completely missing the point.

When you have niche, and fetish material. We can be more choosey.

I still sell a lot of old content on clips4sale/clip stores. Hell, I even rebranded some sites with older content, and sell content like in my content deals. I make a nice chunk of change monthly on the older years, reruns as well as pushing new shit. There is NO REASON not to capitalize on my content library.

The content is still of value. There is no way a member should have 1000 clips for $29.95. Unlike 90% of the porn out out there, all over the tubes, and shit. Fetish and niche is NOT saturated.

You are not going to be pissed at our site, and run off to some site that updates four times a month and be happy. Same as we have had members who now spend 4 times the money buying on a clip store instead of the membership site because they do not want to wait for content, or be rebilled or whatever their various reasons.

It's no wonder a lot of this industry is having a hard time, or going out of business with some of the opinions expressed in this thread. Your content library is an asset that few seem to capitalize to their full extent.

No offense.

Last edited by Barefootsies; 02-19-2009, 06:43 PM.

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SilentKnight

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#22

02-19-2009, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Barefootsies

Completely missing the point.

When you have niche, and fetish material. We can be more choosey.

I still sell a lot of old content on clips4sale/clip stores. Hell, I even rebranded some sites with older content, and sell content like in my content deals. I make a nice chunk of change monthly on the older years, reruns as well as pushing new shit. There is NO REASON not to capitalize on my content library.

The content is still of value. There is no way a member should have 1000 clips for $29.95. Unlike 90% of the porn out out there, all over the tubes, and shit. Fetish and niche is NOT saturated.

You are not going to be pissed at our site, and run off to some site that updates four times a month and be happy. Same as we have had members who now spend 4 times the money buying on a clip store instead of the membership site because they do not want to wait for content, or be rebilled or whatever their various reasons.

It's no wonder a lot of this industry is having a hard time, or going out of business with some of the opinions expressed in this thread. Your content library is an asset that few seem to capitalize to their full extent.

No offense.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

As I said earlier, although we've been rotating content for several years - this recent email by a member was the first time we'd had someone express disappointment in not getting the whole enchilada.

Rotating content is quite a common practice on many bdsm/fetish sites owned by colleagues.
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#23

02-19-2009, 06:59 PM

Most members have a fav "go to" scene or 2 that they jerk off to regularly. Take that vid away, and they could get really upset!

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#24

02-19-2009, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by AaliyahLove

Most members have a fav "go to" scene or 2 that they jerk off to regularly. Take that vid away, and they could get really upset!

Can you post your fav. j off vid?
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#25

02-19-2009, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by BVF

I can't see how I as a customer would give a fuck about the newbie signing up and getting to see old content....I just don't see it and I wouldn't even think about something like that as a customer....

You may be partially right - I'm sure a lot of customers (with more money than brains) couldn't give a rat's ass about the newbie.

But let's say I join a site that archives ALL its content. Why would I bother paying each month? Why not just once a year - download the entire inventory...and vanish for another year?
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#26

02-19-2009, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

But let's say I join a site that archives ALL its content. Why would I bother paying each month? Why not just once a year - download the entire inventory...and vanish for another year?

Which is EXACTLY what some of them do.

There is not ONE pattern to any member. I can think of half a dozen patterns easily off the top of my head. In this thread, people are talking like ALL members will revolt. You have a minority who have rebilled for years. Others pop back every month or two. Some once a year. Others buying on clip and VOD.

I am a business man. Not their friend. I know what my members do. I also know what my content is worth. I am in this business to make money. Not be the king for foot fetish lore. I am in a niche. People will PAY for that niche. They are happy when they join my site and see I am updating more than ONCE A WEEK as it is. Much less with content they love. I already hold an edge over the competition.

When I look what makes up most of this industry in competition sites. I can do just about anything and my members will still love me. HD foot fetish once a week with some Euro model is not going to beat out 5-7 updates of new sets a week.

Sorry toots.

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#27

02-19-2009, 07:06 PM

We just started doing this on one of the sites, sort of as as an experiment. We started rotating content out (new update in - oldest update out) about a year ago - hence have a years worth of archive updates.

Now we alternate archive content with new content enabling us to get more frequent updates (daily instead of every 2 days) for the same expense.

- for the old member: they saw the updates already but they are not losing anything since new stuff is being added at the same rate as before

- for the new member (majority): all these updates are new so the site becomes more valuable

- we get to advertise "daily updates"

All this assumes that once a member gets access to an update he either saves it or jerks off and is done with it. Obviously it doesn't work if they "bookmark" it and keep coming back to it because it will eventually disappear, so i guess that's a downside but i think a minor one.
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#28

02-19-2009, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by SteveHardeman

If you have FHG's out there for a girl and someone joins to see that girl but she's not in the member's area, you will have a problem.

That would describe a large majority of the adult websites out there.

It is a big mystery, along with the once a week updates, why customers do not rebill.

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#29

02-19-2009, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Barefootsies

That would describe a large majority of the adult websites out there.

It is a big mystery, along with the once a week updates, why customers do not rebill.

I sometimes think those who don't rebill are 'random samplers'. They check out a site, sign up once...then move along to the next one that turns their crank.

Variety being the spice of life, perhaps.

Or perhaps there are those who are frugal, declining the rebill early so they don't forget and overlook it later and wind up paying several times for something they may not find time to take advantage of and enjoy.

But you alluded earlier - its not good to generalize...since surfers come in all shapes and forms of category.
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#30

02-19-2009, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

But you alluded earlier - its not good to generalize...since surfers come in all shapes and forms of category.

That is an understatement.

Over the years, I have actually asked some members retaining, and leaving why. What they look for. I search out forums, and read what they say. Things of that nature. I am confident on our content (ratios in sig), so I can take more risks.

As I said before... I have taken old, already released, years old content. Opened a clip store. Called it something other than a 'footsies' name, turn around and make another grand a month or whatever it is off that old content. So it still holds good value and converts the same as new.

Just because I have done the research with members, or know the value of our content on sites, clip stores and other models and others have not. That's their fault. I do not mean it to be arrogant or cocky, but there is a reason I get something like a 1000% return on our content across all the various sales channels. Members are one piece of that puzzle.

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#31

02-19-2009, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by BVF

You DO know that there are NUMEROUS reasons why someone wouldn't save porn to their computer right? I could think of a gang of em right off the top of my head.

C'mon now, that's a cop-out...you've never heard of removable media?

Flash drives (hell, I saw a 32Gb flashdrive at Fshop the other day).

Sunday I picked up a 1terrabyte westerndigital external USB/firewire drive thats roughly the size of my cable modem - fits easily in a standard briefcase. $179 bucks.

Sure, there's numerous reasons someone wouldn't save porn to their computer. I can't think of one reason they can't stash it on an easily-hidden flash drive or greater.
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#32

02-19-2009, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

C'mon now, that's a cop-out...you've never heard of removable media?

Flash drives (hell, I saw a 32Gb flashdrive at Fshop the other day).

Sunday I picked up a 1terrabyte westerndigital external USB/firewire drive thats roughly the size of my cable modem - fits easily in a standard briefcase. $179 bucks.

Sure, there's numerous reasons someone wouldn't save porn to their computer. I can't think of one reason they can't stash it on an easily-hidden flash drive or greater.

If you want to sell the content a la carte somewhere else that's fine...It still doesn't make any sense to limit it in the members area of your site....

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#33

02-19-2009, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by BVF

If you want to sell the content a la carte somewhere else that's fine...It still doesn't make any sense to limit it in the members area of your site....

Well, I won't argue the point any further - since I did start the thread soliciting opinions and whatnot. Actually I appreciate an opposing viewpoint - its all food for thought.
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#34

02-19-2009, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by SilentKnight

Actually I appreciate an opposing viewpoint - its all food for thought.

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#35

02-19-2009, 08:11 PM

I can see and understand the POSSIBLE need for this,
But I would think it has limited use.

Case:
If you have a site that is not possible to update like say a Solo girl site.
And you have not given webmasters access to a good deal of new content...
And you want to add new content based on the timeline that a user is a member of your site..
User A is a member for 5 months
User B is a member for 1 month
"User A" would have access to say 5 scenes with a new scene added each month
and "User B" would only have access to the same scenes as "User A" did durring their first month.

Could be used for say a solo site where you have tons of content but the girl is gone now.. Again I would think you would not want to hold back any content that the member could have seen well surfing the new.. Members may get pissed if they see a new update 4 months later that they saw online a year ago..

But there are a number of down sides .. one downside being that it limits the marketing material that can be used by to get signups...

Note* I'm not saying that adding 1 new scene a month is a good idea just keeping the example simple
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#36

02-19-2009, 09:14 PM

Two sites I push that have the best rebills, and I mean the best like 12 + months is very common, both have an enormous amount of content and they never rotate ever. One has ten years of content.

Not saying rotating out can't work, but in my actual experience the opposite seems to be true.

Site owners concentrate too much on the shitty customers and not the good customers. Trying to stop people from joining a few times a year just to grab the updates or trying to force cheapskates to stay longer, that's the wrong practice IMHO. There will always be shitty customers and all you can do is just get what you can off them. The bread and butter are the good customers. Don't try to make a shitty customer a good customer with crazy schemes and limitations that alienate the bread and butter customer.

But as with most stuff, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Just think about which model fits your content and your customer base before you jump into anything.

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#37

02-19-2009, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by mynameisjim

But as with most stuff, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Just think about which model fits your content and your customer base before you jump into anything.

Best IMHO advice.

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#38

02-19-2009, 09:49 PM

The solution is very simple.

Do not remove content from the members area. Only add content.

Limit the daily bandwidth which the member can download.

New customers will not be able to rip the members area in one month.
Repeat customers will get all new updates plus have access to their favourite old clips.
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#39

02-20-2009, 12:47 AM

Not that it would ever be planned as new, since there is constantly new content up, but to improve the retention I'm planning to do like "featured clips this week" twice a week, cause if we have over 9 000 videos in the archives it's almost impossible during the life of a membership to see all the stuff that's interesting.

So something as a bonus to updating.

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Finike

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#40

02-20-2009, 01:00 AM

I rotate my content all 2 years and add constantly new content -do I can keep my recurring members for years

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Paul Markham

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#41

02-20-2009, 01:48 AM

It's not that simple, wish it was but it's not. These are some of the things you need to think about first.

Are you rotating and adding new?

How much content do you have to start with?
If you have 100 scenes it's tough to rotate that.

How unique is the content? Not exclusive unique is different.
Unless it's very unique and very sought after.

What's the porn quality of the content.
It might be that the content you're rotating is simply not keeping dicks hard enough and rotating is not an answer.

How varied is the content you're rotating?
Rotating the same scene, yes it might be a different girl on a different sofa but it's still the same scene if you have too many. Is not any use to the members, they see just another cloned scene they've seen 100 times before.

Plus a few other things.

We rotate on Paul Markham Teens and it works because we have over 1000 videos and 2,000 image sets. Plus adding new all the time. They are made up from my last 21 years of shooting, plus content we brought in, the variance of the content keeps it interesting because of this. Yes we get a few complaints from members, but they fade away when I offer them the option of having a site with all the content for twice the price or two sites with half in each.

Today's members are KING and they need their needs met or they go elsewhere. Gone are the days of driving more traffic as a solution, we all need to convert more of the 99% of surfers who don't but when they hit our sites. Meeting their needs are the most important thing we can do this year. Big sites with lots to offer are one way of doing this. The biggest turn off to a monthly member is to join a site with 50 videos, shot by the same guy, on a limited budget, with little skills and all shot the same way. 50 videos suddenly becomes 5 videos and the member feels ripped off.

Last edited by Paul Markham; 02-20-2009, 01:49 AM.

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LoveSandra

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#42

02-20-2009, 02:16 AM

If you respect your customers you wont rotate the shit.
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james_clickmemedia

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#43

02-20-2009, 03:49 AM

For every new set we add the oldest one is rotated out. It may be cycled back in at a later day, its still in the DB just not being displayed.

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tranza

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#44

02-20-2009, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by james_clickmemedia

For every new set we add the oldest one is rotated out. It may be cycled back in at a later day, its still in the DB just not being displayed.

I'm just a newbie.
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Jensen

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#45

02-20-2009, 03:57 AM

only adding new content here aswell
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candyflip

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#46

02-20-2009, 05:31 AM

We just add new content to the database.

Spend you some brain.
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kowalsky

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#47

02-20-2009, 05:44 AM

I never did that. At the moment sites are working good enough to update it with new scenes and to keep the old ones...

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BVF

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#48

02-21-2009, 07:52 AM

Ok I took Barefootsies advice into consideration and I finally got around to opening up my clip store...I still have to wait until it gets activated but now it's good to go...

I forgot the dude who gave the advice to put future updates in your clip store and I will probably start doing something similar to where I will offer the update on both the site and the clip store so people who want to just purchase that clip can do so...But right now, I'm just trying to upload a gang of old clips.....However, I still won't rotate out old content...

http://www.clips4sale.com/store/24658

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dial

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#49

02-21-2009, 08:02 AM

I would rotate the old shit out, then sell it as a zip file somewhere in the site

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Barefootsies

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#50

02-21-2009, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by BVF

Ok I took Barefootsies advice into consideration and I finally got around to opening up my clip store...I still have to wait until it gets activated but now it's good to go.

http://www.clips4sale.com/store/24658

Good stuff mang. Work that content six ways from Sunday.

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