OK, be honest...how bad are your sales?

Things were deteriorating all of last year, but then they got really bad in a hurry in the 4th quarter, and so far in the 1st.

Sales on the same traffic are down 50% or more. Alot of the places where I used to buy advertising dropped their prices substantially, as much as 50%, and I still can't make a profit on those ads.

Funny how it was till quite recent where you fucked the surfers over with hidden xsells and all that crap. You did basically anything you could to make sure they would never ever sign up for a paysite again. And now you're wondering why your sales are so bad

Yeah, you sure know what you're doing

But ofcourse like always you will be pointing fingers at others and blame everyone but yourself for shitty sales.

This thread is so amazing but unsurprising to me. In perfect honesty this has been a huge growth year for us, I suppose we're bucking the trend. It's harder for programs to adapt to the market though I think a lot of people are struggling because they've sort of lost touch with the consumer market. If it ain't broke don't fix it... but this being a time of hardship and change you have to be willing to take risks and really get a feel for the market again.

It's because surfers aren't using those methods anymore... Social networks, tube sites, TRUE Web 2.0 (which is a reference to interactive user-generated media) is taking over and everyone who THOUGHT they knew what web 2.0 was are in for a big surprise. Adult has been in our rut so long that we aren't really going out and seeing how people are interacting and demanding their products, so we are using the same old same old and wondering why things have changed. The demographic of the users of the internet is NOTHING like what it was 5 or even 10 years ago, and the kids that are now legal to buy porn and grew up with a lot of net savvy just aren't doing things the way their predecessors did.

Adult sales down 25% but haven't focused much time. Mostly running on autopilot, so not a bad drop.

Mainstream we are up 100% from this month last year.

That's part of it, sure, but alot of these sites I'm talking about still have the same amount of visitors, but those same visitors are not buying as much as they used to. It's not as though all of these surfers have moved on to other mediums and I'm still trying to use the old medium to attract them.

So while all of the stuff you mentioned is important, and is the future, it doesn't change the fact that the economic downturn has put a big dent in people's discretionary income, and that more than anything is what's hurting our sales right now.

I agree with that. When I send surfers to the tour of the site and it doesn't convert, I feel I did my part of the job. But the surfers just aren't buying at the moment.

It's sort of a perfect storm right now. Tubes that have all of a sites full length vids, torrents with the entire members areas ripped for free, and now the economy collapsing. It's probably a miracle I'm not in worse shape with my affiliate work.

For instance I read what Shap said about Twistys having an incredible January. Well, I didn't send a lot to Twistys in Jan. But what I did send was 1,043 hits and 653 of them were unique. Not a lot. And mostly just hits off of galleries in my archives as I just haven't seen much from Twistys saleswise over the last year so I'm a little slack with adding their stuff.

But still...Zero sales. And last year I was 1:2069 uniques with them.

I have real traffic. Not circle jerked or "skimmed" or any of that stuff. I don't do that. But that's what I see when I look at stats as an affiliate of programs. This combo of stolen content for free and the economy in shambles has driven sales down across the board.

It's not a matter of me getting surfers to the sites. I'm doing my job, irregardless of "web 2.0" or anything else. When I look at last year and see that with Naughty America I went 1:2,865 unique then it's obvious that I'm getting people to the tours, but for whatever reason it's just not converting. And it's not the fault of the sites content or design. Across the board those sites are looking better than ever with even hotter scenes and more content.

But it's just very difficult as an affiliate to fight the fact that you can find all their stuff for free and then add in 600,000 people a month losing their jobs

Shap, what is selling the best for you right now? The original Twistys or some of the new hardcore stuff? Point me in the right direction to promote so we can make some money together. What I've been doing is grabbing the galleries for the girl of the month each month, though I skipped the last two months. Should I be concentrating on one of the other sites instead?

From looking at the list of shows this year I cant belive the market is bad...their is one show every month (heck Feb has 3 i think and its the shortest month of the year)

from a year ago
traffic is down 10%
sales are down 40%

ive had to cancel my porn memberships and stopped buying porn dvds.
the only dvd i bought in 2008 was Pirates2.

if you take a look at the alexa for gfy.com theres a huge drop in traffic around july with a slight bounce back. but half the traffic from a year ago. why?
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...etails/gfy.com

Less surfers? They shouldn't be here anyway. This is supposed to be an industry board. It shouldn't even register on Alexa's top 100,000 if it was just the actual people who work in online adult.

Good thread Jay,

It is a lot harder then ever before,Our traffic site are getting stronger but requiring a huge effort to keep them that way. Paysites have seen a big shift in traffic sources with a few of the big guys dropping off and a few news ones picking up.

I think 2009 is a time to improve your sites and give webmasters whatever they need to keep the ball rolling and sales coming in!

I'm big into SEO and I send highly targeted SE traffic to top quality sponsors and I'm down about 15% since last year. Which means I am really down more like 25% because I usually grow my business around 10% a year.

I see it as a good thing in the long run since it gave me the motivation to get my ass back working everyday like clockwork. I was getting a bit lazy there for a few years.

It's time's like these I like reading the following quote:

"I will persist until I succeed. I was not delivered into this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins, I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny. I will persist until I succeed."

Good luck everyone

Bullshit aside - we're making significantly more in the past six months than the previous six month period.

Male bondage sales are way up - the female stuff has increased only slightly, though.

This year it's definitely worse than last january, around -25% for me. Micro niches are still going pretty strong as usual, but the mainstream teen/big boobs/anal/pornstars stuff doesn't do very well here...no matter what program.

It's not less signups for me, but rebills are going down at a pretty high rate.

I'm really happy that my mainstream stuff is still stable, even growing a bit.

Interesting. One thing that this poll doesn't factor, is if you have a year's more experience, your profit should be going up anyways.

tough times do not last...
TOUGH PEOPLE DO.

SB

All those people saying they are making more money are full of it

Mine are 25% off...

Sales are up for us but not for all types of traffic. Tgp sales and ratios have been dropping steadily. I did substantial research and they all started to drop at the same time. I think it was January 06. Interestingly enough tgps started a rapid decline right when Myspace and Facebook took off. Before tubes. I believe a new source of online entertainment hurt tgps as opposed to tubes.

Regarding our sales tgp sales are definitely down. But we've made up for it by being better in other areas.

Definitely not the other sites. Some of the other sites are doing ok but most of them have been doing absolute shit. I'll hit you up and work with you this week on it. I'll let you know what's working

Would you like to put some money on that? Just because you aren't doing better doesn't mean the rest of us aren't.

Amen, bro, Amen. Now is the time to focus on efficiencies and also diversification. If anyone needs help with mainstream diversification, hit me up!

TGP traffic is definitely down, linklist are pretty much dead, and tubes just give away everything you are trying to sell. I know you guy buy a lot of ads on illegal tubes sites - what do you think you are acomplishing?

I say, cut their finding and let the drown in their bandwidth bills.

I have no reason to lie. Especially when my affiliate managers also post here and could very easily say if I were lying or not.

Last month I sent over 13,813 dating joins on a system running on autopilot. January of last year, I only sent 4797. If you think that sending over 9000 more joins in a month doesnt make more money today than a year ago, then you're living in denial.

I think Roger V is speaking strictly from the "Paysite Owner" perspective and not from the affiliate perspective.

You're right. My dating, VOD, and cam sales are all steady. That's the shit that can't be stolen on torrents and tubes.

But my affiliate work for paysite sales is HORRENDOUS

That makes alot of sense. Alot of free T & A pictures there plus the ability to interact and possibly even hook up with the girls.

I will say my sales are way down, my sole source of income is from online adult(I am in the process of changing
that--working on some mainstream projects)
but I have to say, the reason seams obvious to me... when I started doing the adult website thing on the side
from my real job...adult was the web innovator...all the best innovations came from adult...now it's the exact
opposite(well maybe not exact)
what's working now?...
micro-payments-these are small payments(not 29.99 per month--maybe 2.99 per month or 1.00 per purchase)...the game community has already figured this out
constant updating --- this is the reason the so called web 2.0 sites have succeeded, people have become accustomed to constantly updated material...I have seen countless friends stare at their facebook account just waiting for something new to happen...to put this to adult, instead of taking an hour of video or 80 pics of a model in 1 outfit..take 10 pics or 10 mins of video in one outfit and then switch the outfit and background...turn 1 update into 6
I have to also say again...and I have mentioned this before but it seems to be always ignored...when I did research before starting my own tube site,
I noticed that if you look at the big adult tubes...there is no correlation between the length of video and the amount of views...NONE
but, there is a definite correlation between the length of videos and the amount of traffic.
What do I make of this...people really want constant updates AND the "cred" of having the real porn (i.e. full length videos)... but they're not actually watching the full vid...they just want the "cred" that it's there...

January 2009 was down 34% from January 2008 in adult. Mainstream has dropped off 22%. The only positive is the ability to buy up smaller sites not putting up the numbers. When the economy bounces back I hope to be sitting with double the assets I have today

Great post. I've always liked the micro payments idea.

I'd say I'm 50% down

actually Im kicking ass with my get rich in porn systems,but my paysites have dropped alot except for InkandPink.com and agedandseasoned.

so what type of traffic converts for you now? Ill put some money to see how your doing no prob. I have a shit load of SE traffic its all i buy anymore google,yahoo shit all of them,I
spend about 30K a month on SE.


dont get me wrong I love your stuff but just the other day jerked of to a couple of your girls free on pornhub no lie. Ihave moneyand wont pay wonder how the surfers feel

also I have a few tgp's and a new tube getting all SE traffic. just let me know where to send to and Ill do it if your converting great now while others arnt.

I totally agree with you about the changing consumer. But some sites are already adjusting to it. Isn't this C4S you're describing??? or xtube? or Rude? or FindanAmateur? I think they all have the qualities you're describing and C4S has been up for years ...

You and me both.

Tubes uuuuuuuuup!

Funny how you always pretend to be some big player yet it's clear you don't have a clue what the fuck you're doing because:

1: You spam the fuck out of the forums because you desperatly need affiliates. You look so desperate often i almost feel bad for you.
2: your comment quoted above shows what a retard loser you are with no clue about this business. Just because you can't make sales doesn't mean others can't. Actually many people do better than before and that's because many people are smarter than you.
3: Every time you owe someone money, even 100 bucks, they have to chase you for months.
4: Notoldschool agreed with you, that alone already makes you a loser.

You may have done well a few years ago where ever every big mouth retard faggot like you could fart and make a 1000 bucks with it on the internet but this is clearly ending as you just admitted. 1 or 2 more years and pieces of shit with no brains will be gone. Thank god.

The same goes for people like Jay. They started making money the right way when everything was more simple. Started some paysites, ran a honest operation and as time got harder he got more greedy and started pulling all kinds of shit on the surfers just to make sure he will get as much money as possible today! 2 prechecked cross sales hidden under the sign up button, you name it. Charge 150 bucks today of a surfer because it's the only way people like him are/were still able to make money. Too greedy and dumb to realize that he was killing his own future of potential members.

And now look what has become of him. It's no different than the noob who just get's into this industry without a clue and starts asking if there's money to be made here.

People like Jay will also be gone soon.

well, I don't know what C4S is, but xtube and rude are a mess. Specifically dealing with paysites, I check this board and thebestporn often to see what's new...and there is nothing..every program launches a shitload of sites trying to appeal to different niches and they update maybe once a weak, offer the same old shit(i.e. teens taking big dick,MILFs fucking black dudes---whatever)..it's the same ol same ol...the sites are usually small and nothing new... that worked 5 years ago, but is not what the web has become.
Programs have to learn to build a brand that people like and trust, and then give the surfer exactly what they want. What do surfers want?
They want a constantly updating network and some "cred"(check my original post)...that's it in the nutshell.
tubes update around 10 new vids a day, is there a paysite that does this? nope
so why would you expect a surfer to want to join a paysite.
Surfers don't seem to care about quality(to a point at least) and I have yet to see anybody watch a porn all the way through... the way people have changed their expectations with the web...is they want whats new...and they want alot of it.
In todays climate, paysites can't/won't deliver this, so the model is dead. The only way I see this surviving in the long run is for paysites to change their practices.
1. learn to shoot more scenes with variety on the same shoot..creating more updates instead of just the one scene.
2. Create an interactive enviroment within your paysite. Hire some people to pretend they are models and have a forum where they post..this gives the surfer more of the illusion that the site is constantly changing.
3 Quit with the fucking cross sales! if your product is great, why in the hell are you trying to trick the surfer into purchasing something else(and you are trying to trick them.)
4.Stop offering massive affiliate payouts that make you do #3. Yes you will get alot of dumbasses to sign up for your program...but the smart webmasters who will actually make you sales in the long run, won't promote you. If your product sells, I don't care if I only make $5 dollars revshare...as long as those members keep rebilling and you convert. Is it really better to make $100 off of 1/9000 or make $5 revshare off of 1/300 and have a ton of rebills.
5. Start creating more of a relationship with your affiliates. I have encountered maybe 1 out of 100 good affiliate managers. This is not a hard job, get some software to help your affiliate managers deal with affiliates(I worked sales for a drum company awhile back ago and my territory was the entire US, it's not hard to do if you have good software--I used Goldmine).. and start actually helping affiliates that have some potential to grow... nobody does that...programs are only concerned with the whales...while you have to cater to them, this is not a long term strategy for growth.
6. Lower your membership costs and figure out a way to incorporate micropayments. No one wants to pay $40 or $30 bucks for a membership anymore...so stop it. Just a thought on how to incorporate micro payments(I will use some terminology from games-since that is what I am working on now) would be to have a money (i.e. "tokens") system on your paysite where people could buy tokens and then get rewards for them, maybe the reward is getting certain updates early, or maybe the reward is an exclusive vid, or maybe you work it out with a cam company where the reward is minutes, or maybe it's a signed t-shirt by one of your models, or maybe its they could buy the dildo the model used on a shoot....I could keep going, the possibilities are endless

anyhoo, have a ton more ideas, but sick of typing and no one will probably listen anyways

Mine are up, but I'm new so...

Dood, we've had prechecked xsales since day 1. We also have options to remove them for a lower payout. Almost every single prgram out there has at least 1 prechecked and most have 2. Where have you been?

It was that way long before I even entered this paysite game. It was even more nasty in the 1999-2001 era. Things are actually much tamer now.

You are the one who sounds like a noob.

As always you're right away pointing your fingers to others. Everything you do wrong is ok because others are doing it as well. You do this in real life as well? Never taking responsibility for your actions?

Anyway, you can say all you want but the fact that you started this thread says enough.

you are the idiot I bet I make 10 times more then you now... I never said I wasnt making money just my paysites arnt doing as well. unlike you I have been doing this for 12 years and know how to make alot of money online.

I dont even need affiliates you dumb fuck I changed my business model couple years ago. all my traffic now is SE and some smart affiliates who send me traffic which is just extra.

Sorry you arnt making money you have to try and slam me when you have no clue at all.
like I said lets compare anything you want houses,cars bank accounts just name it.

I dont know who the big players are anymore and dont care cause I make my money and more then you for sure

I bet i will be here much longer then you unless i decide to retire. I feel sorry for you I really do.
dont feel sorry for me I'm successful and not worried as I'm making more then 95% of the people in the biz

2 words: zip sets

DirtyF is an idiot who hates everyone who does better then him..he just tries to get a rise out of players since he has nothing but a small GFY following. I bet he is on meds for stress etc.

Jay he's got almost 50k post think he makes money LOL hes to busy talking shit lol

Congrats now this sounds real. Unlike Dirty frank who will be broke before 2010 in the adult game
Keep it up things will get better business always has its ups and downs like life.

The primary billers for adult tend to be really bitchy about micropayments. Even low dollar trials turn their risk management off. Maybe because the chargeback risk is the same, but the possible rewards are lower, not sure.