They aren't looking for price on review sites, if thats the case their best sellers would be the cheapest.

Is it? I don't think so. porn is legal! selling porn, dvd's and music which doesn't belong to you is illegal!

These thing will still exist but the cunts stealing everything being cheap arseholes not paying anything will be fucked! and I can't wait to see the day when that happens :thumbsup

I agree with your hatred, and thoughts on content theft. However...

I believe it is a slippery slope because when you refer to 'legalizing things', that means government intervention on a grand scale. I do not think government intervention on the internet as a whole is a good thing.

They tend to use a cannon or an axe instead of a scalpel.

They are.

Check out videobox. Alot of sites offer special pricing to the surfers of review sites...specifically because they're so price sensitive.

Thats very true, I think the 2257 introduction was a complete fuck up and didn't really help with the underage content situation that much.

But as for torrents and illegal downloads it should be pretty easy to get rid of them.

I don't see it in their traffic they send us. From what I read on big tit surfer forums (which I frequent to watch who is stealing what content and uploading it to which torrent to make sure CM's is removed), the review sites are now a useful tool for surfers to browse through and then go to the torrents to find what they liked for free. That's why they have sooooo much traffic and not that great in conversions.

Excellent post, Lenny. Thanks for taking the time to share with everyone.

Brad

I am right in line of what you are saying - > what will be the next hoopla ?

:2 cents::thumbsup

you need to stop being an affiliate
move yourself up the chain, or create a new path that put you in a prime position.

sell physical goods/services that can't be distributed via torrents
if the girls are making money by touring and showing up at strip clubs, find a way to make money driving visiters to the club.
If the girls are escorting/ find a way to make money for refering paying customers.
sell the stuff that can't be "stolen".
HMV expanded their business to include movies, posters, tickets to live events, dvd, merchandising, ipods, zunes.

sam the record man did not.

Awesome analogy... you're too bright for this industry, Snake Doctor.

i always lol when ppl say "tubes make tons of $" but fail to actually prove it in some way. If tubes really did churn the massive profits some people claim there would be SOMEONE that pops up bragging about it.

imo ppl that claim to make tons off of a tube are full of shit

A site like yours isn't going to do so hot on a review site because you charge $35 per month with no trial, only feature one girl, and don't allow your movies to be downloaded.

Now before you start arguing the merits of what you do....don't....because I understand there's a place for what you do in this business and that you have a following.....but that following isn't going to come to you via review sites.

Sites that do well with review surfers are sites with multiple updates per day, a huge downloadable archive, and a low monthly price. Sites like those get a shitload of joins from review sites.

To be fair, you go to forums where people share stolen content (a den of thieves) and hear people say review sites are a great place to stop before you go get torrents. That doesn't make their opinion indicative of all review surfers. :2 cents:

That's part of what this thread was about.

I'm trying to get ideas and/or build some partnerships for branching my business out into other things while I still can.

You could teach 99% of the webmasters biz 101. They need it!

This industry is eating itself and I am just sitting back and laughing. I got out years ago as I saw the righting on the wall.

You all need to go out and get the book "Who Moved My Cheese" and give it a read. For all you GFY people, it's a short book so with your tiny attention span you should be able to get through it. Not to many big words either.:1orglaugh

Good luck!

i wish people would stop thinking the changes occurring are happening due to tubes.

technological changes are overturning every industry that deals with ip.

the newspaper industry wasn't wiped out overnight by pornhub.

people seriously need to take a break from gfy and read outside of it.

good post btw, some food for thought.

Tubes make a ton of money from dating/cam sponsors.

You should add to that "you think", because unless you own a large tube site and are hiding that fact from us, you can't know for sure.

Also, there's a difference between revenue and profit.

Even then, if they are profitable now, they can't be for the long term. One, because they are so limited in what they can actually advertise, and it's doubtful that advertising the exact same thing to a site built on bookmarkers month after month will be profitable....and Two, because they are built on content piracy and that isn't going to last long term.

fake tube sites, fake rapidsharesites, fake torrent sites, good way to get seo traffic

like the good old warez days
80% of those sites were fake

the more do, the better,

I'm curious, on your fake tube/rapidshare/torrent sites do you tell the surfers that they better visit your sponsors and vote for you at the top lists or else you'll shut the site down? :1orglaugh

That's not what we experienced at all.

When we opened the site in May 2007 we DID get pretty good signups from Review Sites. But the torrents and illegit tubes started eating at them just like they tore up my tgp business. I realized in early 2008 that surfers were no longer signing up for sites from my tgp's anymore (statistically speaking of course...I still get sales, but it isn't what it's supposed to be).

I see the stats showing that YES the surfers are clicking into the tour. But nobody was buying. And that's a year ago before the collapse of the economy. This month my ratio for N. America for instance is 1:6,225 That's a lot of people who are interested in a site, checking it out, and then NOT buying.

That's why I say that review sites are definitely a place that surfers do a lot of browsing and not much buying statistically speaking. In 2007 they sure did buy. But not in tube/torrent crazy 2009.

Oh, and by the way...we have NINE girls in our network. About to add a 10th sologirl. So our members have complete access to all those sites and the other girls sites are downloadable.

And no, all those big generic sites that you are saying do so well on review sites...I'm not so sure about that. When I talk to the guys that own those programs they tell me the same thing that I'm saying to you. Tubes and torrents have hurt them and affiliates across the board are struggling to send sales. Type in traffic is good for almost everybody. But a lot of that has to do with the fact that many people decided to "educate" the surfer and now every surfer in the world knows what an affiliate program is and what an affiliate link code looks like. :) So now they do what I have always done...they type it in and get rid of the affiliate code. :(

no just every outbound link with the word rapidshare goes to fhgs or tours,

very easy,


i have a great clickthru and conversions below 1:1000 with that

i also have simple handwritten blogs without rapidshare fakes and some free gals on it
just like anyone else n here

they only get 1/10th of the seo traffic that i get from rapidshare keywords
and conversion is much worse

I see those in google all the time when I'm searching for our sites. I have no idea how they make money.

And I'm always astounded to learn that there is a keygen or warez for Claudia-Marie! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I can only assume that they get some guys who click on the link and then decide to check out the warez or keygen site to see if they can find something else? Not sure. It's a business model I don't understand.

I went to the best of porn or whatever its called they have their top 10. 1 is $9.95 2 were $19.95 and the rest were $29.95 up to $34.95. People dont shop porn on price . if That's the case lens $10 porn sites would of taken over the business.

If you recall a post by doc...he also said that a lot of signups from the review sites don't rebill well. Could be that they are using us free sites to browse, then talking with their buds on the surfer forums, then joining the site, downloading everything, canceling the membership, uploading and then getting their "props" and boosting their "rep" on the surfer forums.

I would highly recommend that every serious webmaster do some googling for forums and message boards. If you push interracial then search for interracial forum or interracial message boards. If you push teen do the same thing...and just go down the line through all of the niches that you promote.

You will see some things that may open your eyes as to what is happening. In my opinion as an affiliate for a long time, it was a big mistake to pull the curtain back and reveal how our business works to the customer. Other businesses don't do that.

When you go to buy some groceries, you have no idea how much it really costs to put that bag of sugar on the shelf and how much the mark up is or how they fool you with "sales" etc. But our customers have been taught everything there is to know.

They no longer see our tgps' as a place where some nice guy listed a bunch of free porn. They now KNOW how I make my money. And they no longer see review sites as some nice "consumer reports" website meant to "help" them. They now know exactly what it is.

Revealing everything about our business makes most of our marketing strategies fall completely flat.

That's the top 10 ratings, not the top 10 sellers.

Believe what you want, but there is a large segment of porn consumers that do consider price and look at several sites before joining.

I'm sure the majority of our joins are impulse purchases, especially trial memberships....but that doesn't mean there isn't a significant number of people who do bargain shop. :2 cents:

The $10 porn sites didn't sell because they sucked. They were 1998 style tours and none of them had compelling or exclusive content.
Also, they were lined up in competition with sites offering 2.95 trials, and the 2.95 trial won....which is just more proof that customers are price sensitive.

Snake doctor you should get out of porn and start a marketing firm.:thumbsup

There is nothing webmasters can do to combat tube sites, except generate more traffic year over year to compensate for worsening ratios.

Well, it's easy to write books and articles about how the music industry or the movie industry is so stupid and was so late to adapt but it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how business operates. I'm not saying you Snake, but the bloggers and tech people who write these books you mentioned.

First of all, the music industry did make some mistakes early on but to blame them for not changing to a digital delivery system overnight is just not fair. People don't realize that there were multiple contracts in place ALREADY that had no provisions for digital distribution. Contracts for hundreds of millions of dollars involving hundreds of people per contract. One album from one artist has provisions for the songwriters, co-songwriters, performers, producers, engineers, other artists from other labels that appeared on the album, etc. You can't just start selling stuff in a totally different medium with no provisions when there are huge and complex contracts like that already in place.

Same with television. Everyone wonders why TV shows took so long to appear on the web. Once again, contracts. Sydication deals are in place where stations and companies pay for the right to air television shows based on the fact that they alone are able to air those television shows. Once they start being shown on the web those syndication deals are now worth much less as people have more than one place to watch those shows. This is just one example.

All I'm saying is, everyone blames these companies but they don't realize how excruciatingly difficult it is to change overnight with these iron clad deals that have been in place for 50 years.

Not to mention the music single went away because of natural market forces and there were other legal download music services way before iTunes.

But I do agree with you that there is much to learn from the growing pains of these other industries you mentioned.

yeah i know they take in big bucks from them but how much of that is actual profit? If it takes 50k to make a profit of 5k that's preeeeeeeeetty shitty

With volume, 10% profit margin is pretty decent.

How much bandwidth does a big tube push? Say in actual TB's a month instead of mb per second

Based on the traffic it sucks though. They share real estate in the Alexa top 100 with sites valued in the billions of dollars.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind making what the top tube sites make, but considering their traffic, it's almost a failure.

Title II: Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act
DMCA Title II, the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act ("OCILLA"), creates a safe harbor for online service providers (OSPs, including ISPs) against copyright liability if they adhere to and qualify for certain prescribed safe harbor guidelines and promptly block access to allegedly infringing material (or remove such material from their systems) if they receive a notification claiming infringement from a copyright holder or the copyright holder's agent. OCILLA also includes a counternotification provision that offers OSPs a safe harbor from liability to their users, if the material upon notice from such users claiming that the material in question is not, in fact, infringing. OCILLA also provides for subpoenas to OSPs to provide their users' identity.

10% ROI is piss... you're right with volume it's good but god damn having to spend 100k to make 10k/mo isn't exactly a great way to make a living imo

and how much work is involved to get that 10%? If it's an 8hr day you might as well be working a tech job making 60k-100k/year