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pythonx

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Online poker players... How can you know for sure that...

01-21-2009, 06:55 AM

How can you know for sure that the other players at the table are real people?
How can you know for sure that some of them are not bots belonging to the site? Bots that know all the cards of the other people... It's not like such a bot is something difficult to program.

I'm not talking about bots that always calculate the best thing to do with each hand... i'm talking about bots that belong to the poker site and that know all the cards of the other players... bots that can't lose. Is this paranoia thinking? I'm really thinking that they put bots on tables every once in a while, to make huge profits.
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#2

01-21-2009, 06:58 AM

you just blew my mind....

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#3

01-21-2009, 06:59 AM

You can't, it takes a few humans watching suspect accounts for weeks on end

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#4

01-21-2009, 07:18 AM

what sites are you referring to? I personally game on full tilt, and I really hope they would bank their rep on not doing shady crap like that. Too much money to lose if they get busted- well not worth it.
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#5

01-21-2009, 07:20 AM

why would they risk their reputation in such a huge industry? they already make an enormous profit just from having people play on their tables. why chance losing it all getting caught running cheating bots?
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pythonx

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#6

01-21-2009, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by Angry Jew Cat

why would they risk their reputation in such a huge industry? they already make an enormous profit just from having people play on their tables. why chance losing it all getting caught running cheating bots?

For even more huge profits?
Imagine 5 or so bots, playing 24 hours each days, constantly switching tables and usernames. It's pretty simple to implement.

Start running bot => join a table under random username => play a few games, maybe lose 1 or 2 with a small pot to avoid suspicion => Win a few games with large pots => leave table => change username => REPEAT

A bot that knows all player cards and also knows the order of the next cards coming from the deck, can be set to win everytime. Even the order of the deck cannot be trusted imo. The deck can simply draw cards to make the sites bots win.

It is almost impossible for players to detect this and prove it... and their reputation is not at stake.
Imagine how much EXTRA money they could bank each day with this.
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pythonx

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#7

01-21-2009, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by BardMan

what sites are you referring to? I personally game on full tilt, and I really hope they would bank their rep on not doing shady crap like that. Too much money to lose if they get busted- well not worth it.

I'm not referring to any particular site... just in general.
I played on partypoker a few times.
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#8

01-21-2009, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by BardMan

what sites are you referring to? I personally game on full tilt, and I really hope they would bank their rep on not doing shady crap like that. Too much money to lose if they get busted- well not worth it.

right, so much money....who is gonna bust them?

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#9

01-21-2009, 08:15 AM

I'm pretty sure there was an article online about this not long ago...and considering my buddy is banking and just made $5k+ on a well known site, it's all where you play.

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#10

01-21-2009, 09:27 AM

Well, I'm online poker player, but I don't want to waste my money on it... hahahah, play just for fun...

I'm just a newbie.
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#11

01-21-2009, 09:27 AM

Sounds like paranoia to me, but certainly the Absolute Poker scandal of last year awakened everyone to the possibility of insiders up to no good.

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#12

01-21-2009, 09:43 AM

If you have to ask yourself this question then you don't have enough money to be playing online poker anyway.
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#13

01-21-2009, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by pythonx

How can you know for sure that the other players at the table are real people?
How can you know for sure that some of them are not bots belonging to the site? Bots that know all the cards of the other people... It's not like such a bot is something difficult to program.

I'm not talking about bots that always calculate the best thing to do with each hand... i'm talking about bots that belong to the poker site and that know all the cards of the other players... bots that can't lose. Is this paranoia thinking? I'm really thinking that they put bots on tables every once in a while, to make huge profits.

Would you rather take $100 from someone 1 time or take $1 from them 1,000+ times? Rake ftw - millions of dollars without ever having to play a hand. That's why poker sites hate scandals regardless of what site they're on - they want poker players to be happy because they'll make a lot more money from them that way.

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pythonx

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#14

01-21-2009, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by V_RocKs

If you have to ask yourself this question then you don't have enough money to be playing online poker anyway.

What a retard reply is that?
If you have money it's ok to spend it on a scam?
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#15

01-21-2009, 10:42 AM

http://www.comeplay.com
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#16

01-21-2009, 10:44 AM

You simply don't, you can only assume.

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#17

01-21-2009, 12:34 PM

it's a pretty stupid way to risk what is a perfectly fine long term business model.
people watch for things like that, and if they are exposed, you can kiss your entire biz good bye...

Originally posted by pythonx

For even more huge profits?
Imagine 5 or so bots, playing 24 hours each days, constantly switching tables and usernames. It's pretty simple to implement.

Start running bot => join a table under random username => play a few games, maybe lose 1 or 2 with a small pot to avoid suspicion => Win a few games with large pots => leave table => change username => REPEAT

A bot that knows all player cards and also knows the order of the next cards coming from the deck, can be set to win everytime. Even the order of the deck cannot be trusted imo. The deck can simply draw cards to make the sites bots win.

It is almost impossible for players to detect this and prove it... and their reputation is not at stake.
Imagine how much EXTRA money they could bank each day with this.
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#18

01-21-2009, 01:54 PM
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#19

01-21-2009, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by RayBonga
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#20

01-21-2009, 01:59 PM

So since you all play - Is it legal to fund these sites with an american credit card?

What is the best transfer method... Im interested in playing poker but I dont want my funds seized like Ive heard about...

whats up players?

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#21

01-21-2009, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by GeoAdultKiel

you just blew my mind....

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#22

01-21-2009, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Deej

So since you all play - Is it legal to fund these sites with an american credit card?

What is the best transfer method... Im interested in playing poker but I dont want my funds seized like Ive heard about...

whats up players?

it is illegal for credit card companies to credit your account, not you playing. With the dems in control they will over turn many online gaming laws and it will be legal to fund your account soon.
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#23

01-21-2009, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by RayBonga

Once in a lifetime bad beat story though, lol.

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#24

01-21-2009, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by IllTestYourGirls

it is illegal for credit card companies to credit your account, not you playing. With the dems in control they will over turn many online gaming laws and it will be legal to fund your account soon.

so is it legal for me to fund a xoom account or one of the many methods they use, then I take that company funds to one of these poker places?

Is that legit? I mean i know a lot of people still play... I just want to know how i wont cause myself any problems doing so ...

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#25

01-21-2009, 08:20 PM

I only play and work with the big boys of the poker world...

Full Tilt, Pokerstars, Cake Poker, possibly Bodog, and a few others. AbsolutePoker & Ultimatebet tainted the poker world with cheaters and cheats.

The legit ones have systems setup that regulate play and such.

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#26

01-21-2009, 08:23 PM

Oh they aren't bots with access to everyone's cards. It's real people.

Look up Ultimate Bet and Super User.

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polle54

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#27

01-22-2009, 10:37 AM

Please don't think of online poker as beeing rigged.

throughout online poker history there has been one incident at Absolute Poker.

The companies do not have any interest in committing any crime here. They want a well trusted and well used network.
From time to time people do gather up and play together but most of the people who do are so retarded it work out to my advantage.
I can only hope to play bots because bot's always behaves ina pattern, some very complex, but still it's an algorithm that makes the decisions. Once a pattern is spotted - like full pot bet bluff on river when they have no show down value.

Anyway I just look at my stats. This is my last 32 days of poker.
48.000 hands played on NL$50. I play 8 tables at the time 7,12 or something like that in average.

You can click the image for a better view.

As you can see I win 4,25 big blinds per 100 hands i play. I played a total of 48.000 hands and made about $2040 Dollars. Hourly pay is $24,63 Tax free.

Personal note for the ones who care: When I have earned $3k I start playing NL$100 instead.

When you are above 30k hands the stats begin to reflect your skills compared to the skills of your oponents.

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#28

01-22-2009, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by polle54

Please don't think of online poker as beeing rigged.

throughout online poker history there has been one incident at Absolute Poker.

The companies do not have any interest in committing any crime here. They want a well trusted and well used network.
From time to time people do gather up and play together but most of the people who do are so retarded it work out to my advantage.
I can only hope to play bots because bot's always behaves ina pattern, some very complex, but still it's an algorithm that makes the decisions. Once a pattern is spotted - like full pot bet bluff on river when they have no show down value.

Anyway I just look at my stats. This is my last 32 days of poker.
48.000 hands played on NL$50. I play 8 tables at the time 7,12 or something like that in average.

You can click the image for a better view.

As you can see I win 4,25 big blinds per 100 hands i play. I played a total of 48.000 hands and made about $2040 Dollars. Hourly pay is $24,63 Tax free.

Personal note for the ones who care: When I have earned $3k I start playing NL$100 instead.

When you are above 30k hands the stats begin to reflect your skills compared to the skills of your oponents.

jesus... thats getting in depth!

good work though

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#29

01-22-2009, 11:52 AM

i play it this moment! going hard

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#30

01-22-2009, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Deej

jesus... thats getting in depth!

good work though

hehe thanks

I know it's in depth but I made the post because a lot of people dont get the bigger picture. Many people maybe never played more than 2000 hands or so and if you look at the graph it's easy to see that 2k hands can end 7 buy ins down for me It doesn't mean I am down by the end of the month though

Variance is much bigger than people can grasp and therefore the human brain starts to look for patterns. It is a vital part of the game to be able to ignore these unexisting patterns that seems to appear There are no "Everytime I have AA I lose". Maybe that's the case for 500 hands but it certainly is not in the long haul. Not if played correctly and protected by bets that is

Poker is a complex game full of sick beats. People tend to forget that if you have a 80% winning chance you lose 1 out of 5 times. No one is to say that 1 out of 5 times doesn't come 10 times in a row. It happens all the time Cards hold no memory.

Last edited by polle54; 01-22-2009, 12:02 PM.

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#31

01-22-2009, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by PornMD

Would you rather take $100 from someone 1 time or take $1 from them 1,000+ times? Rake ftw - millions of dollars without ever having to play a hand. That's why poker sites hate scandals regardless of what site they're on - they want poker players to be happy because they'll make a lot more money from them that way.

you mean no one would ever want to do, for example, prechecked cross sales??
all right!

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#32

01-22-2009, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by polle54

I can only hope to play bots because bot's always behaves ina pattern, some very complex, but still it's an algorithm that makes the decisions. Once a pattern is spotted - like full pot bet bluff on river when they have no show down value.

No,
this is not about bots who can calculate the best odds and tell people to call or to fold.
This is about bots belong to the pokersite. Bots that know all cards of the deck and the players. Bots that can ALWAYS win.
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#33

01-22-2009, 01:23 PM

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4633254.shtml
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#34

01-22-2009, 01:39 PM

what happens if 4 players enter the table and they keep contact with eachother through msn for example, they will clean you out wont they? How is that protected? Just asking.

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polle54

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#35

01-22-2009, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by grumpy

what happens if 4 players enter the table and they keep contact with eachother through msn for example, they will clean you out wont they? How is that protected? Just asking.

not protection if no internal relation is stated such as money transfers.

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#36

01-22-2009, 01:56 PM

However an investigation will be made if it happens a lot

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