Models: Youth versus Experience

[Barefootsies]

I work with a lot of the 18-25 crowd, although some of our models are now aging out of the demographic.

What I find funny, even moreso the younger the girl is, or the more attractive, is that they will let PRIDE fuck up their money. I am not saying there is anything wrong with having pride to not say, be filmed sucking a mean one. What I mean is, youngesters, and not just models, have a REAL PROBLEM saying that, they are "sorry" for anything.

They will be getting evicted, having their car repo'ed, whatever. Instead of just saying sorry, and making a commitment to be a better model, coder, designer, whatever. They refuse to make the apology.

For me, on principal, unless I get a heart felt sorry when they fuck up. I do not give a flying fuck about their circumstances. Nor will I give them a second chance.

I find this more and more in the under 25 crowd. The refusal to be wrong, and apologize for it.

[Antonio]

Errrrrrrhhhhh, that's what being young is all about, no?
Would you rather have people being born wise and wrinkled?

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Antonio

Errrrrrrhhhhh, that's what being young is all about, no?
Would you rather have people being born wise and wrinkled?

....and get better looking with AGE?

Yes.

[XX_RydeR]

They would "eventually" learn from their mistakes lol.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by XX_RydeR

They would "eventually" learn from their mistakes lol.

Eventually...

[ContentSHOOTER]

I shoot models from 18 to late 30 range. I personally would rather shoot a model that is in her late twenties to mid thirties, for the same reasons you posted originally

[d-null]

bad upbringing, no class, sense of entitlement, goes with the territory I guess

girls can get that way too due to the fact that they can have a shitty attitude and there is always a guy to come along and validate them (because he wants to get in her pants)

[F-U-Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Antonio

Errrrrrrhhhhh, that's what being young is all about, no?
Would you rather have people being born wise and wrinkled?

.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by ContentSHOOTER

I personally would rather shoot a model that is in her late twenties to mid thirties, for the same reasons you posted originally

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I work with a lot of the 18-25 crowd, although some of our models are now aging out of the demographic.

What I find funny, even moreso the younger the girl is, or the more attractive, is that they will let PRIDE fuck up their money. I am not saying there is anything wrong with having pride to not say, be filmed sucking a mean one. What I mean is, youngesters, and not just models, have a REAL PROBLEM saying that, they are "sorry" for anything.

They will be getting evicted, having their car repo'ed, whatever. Instead of just saying sorry, and making a commitment to be a better model, coder, designer, whatever. They refuse to make the apology.

For me, on principal, unless I get a heart felt sorry when they fuck up. I do not give a flying fuck about their circumstances. Nor will I give them a second chance.

I find this more and more in the under 25 crowd. The refusal to be wrong, and apologize for it.

Ok, I think you are wrong........


.....

.....

.....

Did you apologize yet?

And why do you need someone to be sorry when it doesn't make you any more money.
Sounds like you have a pride issue with needing people to bow down and kiss your ass
over what is probably nothing.

You want to be right and you want everyone around you to know it and that's why you need
the person to be sorry.(but for you "being sorry" is probably more like begging)

[Iron Fist]

When you say i'm sorry, it means you accept responsibility. Unfortunately, this generations youth has no clue how to spell the word responsibility, much less understand it.

[d-null]

Originally Posted by sharphead

When you say i'm sorry, it means you accept responsibility. Unfortunately, this generations youth has no clue how to spell the word responsibility, much less understand it.

generally speaking you are so right, and they believe that anyone that calls them on it is in the wrong and the bad person

[After Shock Media]

It all started with banning dodge ball in school and having everyone win. Pretty soon nobody was responsible and if the teachers got mad at you or something instead of fearing for your life when you got home. Your mommy or daddy is more likely on the phone defending you and finding fault in how it was handled and way to often the first call is not to the school or whatever but to a lawyer first.

Had a kid recently bust one of windows. Kid had been told several times to not hit shit with his bat in the street - by his parents. Sure enough he knocks a ball through my window. I was only slightly pissed but I did not over react nor freak out. Hell I busted a window or two as a kid myself. The parent said they would pay for it so I got it fixed. I casually asked what the kids punishment was going to be, hell didnt even use the word punishment. Found out it was nothing at all. Inside I was like WTF? he was warned, did it anyways and gets off free and his parents pay his way out. Fuck when I was a kid and did it I had to perform some heavy slave labor to help pay for the windows. Go figure that when I bring that person the bill for the window, now it is too much and it shouldnt of cost that much to fix. I did get 3 damn estimates and went with cheapest. Already filed for small claims. I just know I am not getting shit out of this now and well GRRR. Oh they are also just renters on the street.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by sortie

And why do you need someone to be sorry when it doesn't make you any more money.
Sounds like you have a pride issue with needing people to bow down and kiss your ass
over what is probably nothing.

You want to be right and you want everyone around you to know it and that's why you need
the person to be sorry.(but for you "being sorry" is probably more like begging)

While normally I would not even acknowledge your stupidity, I'll entertain a scenario to put you back in your place under the troll bridge as it would pertain to my O.P..

1. A model is scheduled for a shoot. She is one of three. The night before a shoot, I verify with everyone they are still on for the following day, and give them the details and time. They all say they are a go.

The next day, one of them does not show up or call. We initially wait 15 minutes to start the shoot because we do not want to be in the middle of a scene and phone is ringing, or someone is pounding at the door and we have to stop.

So not only have you inconvenienced me, but the other two girls who are there and one time. We have to rework the scenes for 2 instead of three, and then we waited for you. So now the shoot will go longer than expected for everyone. The other girls are now mad, and it shows up on the end result in film.

2. Similar scenario, different outcome. Two girl shoot, and do the same as above. 15 minutes prior to the shoot you get some excuse about her boyfriend did not tell her he needed the car, she got called into work, or did not remember to set the alarm. So we end up canceling the shoot.

However, first girl was already in route, so she was expecting to make money that day. I had moved around my schedule the night before, and that day to plan for a shoot and material. Now the girl is out money, and have to go through scheduling another shoot.

Now, in either situation. That same girl who last minute canceled, or did not show up at all will respond to my next shoot posting saying she can make it to the next one we are doing in a few days. She goes on to retell me whatever story she had for that other day, but no where in the e-mail, IM, phone call is an apology for wasting time and money for us.

This actually happens more than half the time. We do have some girls who are very responsible, and apologetic when something comes up. So it makes me more apt to consider scheduling, or holding a spot for them, compared to someone with no remorse.

I could go on with similar situations with coder/designers, but you can imagine similar circumstance alone if you have been in this business a few years.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

It all started with banning dodge ball in school and having everyone win. Pretty soon nobody was responsible and if the teachers got mad at you or something instead of fearing for your life when you got home. Your mommy or daddy is more likely on the phone defending you and finding fault in how it was handled and way to often the first call is not to the school or whatever but to a lawyer first.

Had a kid recently bust one of windows. Kid had been told several times to not hit shit with his bat in the street - by his parents. Sure enough he knocks a ball through my window. I was only slightly pissed but I did not over react nor freak out. Hell I busted a window or two as a kid myself. The parent said they would pay for it so I got it fixed. I casually asked what the kids punishment was going to be, hell didnt even use the word punishment. Found out it was nothing at all. Inside I was like WTF? he was warned, did it anyways and gets off free and his parents pay his way out. Fuck when I was a kid and did it I had to perform some heavy slave labor to help pay for the windows. Go figure that when I bring that person the bill for the window, now it is too much and it shouldnt of cost that much to fix. I did get 3 damn estimates and went with cheapest. Already filed for small claims. I just know I am not getting shit out of this now and well GRRR. Oh they are also just renters on the street.

I completely agree with you on all accounts.

I have had chats with the girls while we wait for everyone to show up. How they think the world should operate, and their views are truly entertaining. Between the fact they take no responsibility, lack of foresight on consequences, and selfish nature of focus only on themselves and their needs. A lot never seem to think of any ripple effect to their decisions.

If they did, they probably would not be pimping themselves out for a few hundred bucks to suck on strange chicks toes in front of a camera, and for the internet.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

While normally I would not even acknowledge your stupidity, I'll entertain a scenario to put you back in your place under the troll bridge as it would pertain to my O.P..

1. A model is scheduled for a shoot. She is one of three. The night before a shoot, I verify with everyone they are still on for the following day, and give them the details and time. They all say they are a go.

The next day, one of them does not show up or call. We initially wait 15 minutes to start the shoot because we do not want to be in the middle of a scene and phone is ringing, or someone is pounding at the door and we have to stop.

So not only have you inconvenienced me, but the other two girls who are there and one time. We have to rework the scenes for 2 instead of three, and then we waited for you. So now the shoot will go longer than expected for everyone. The other girls are now mad, and it shows up on the end result in film.

2. Similar scenario, different outcome. Two girl shoot, and do the same as above. 15 minutes prior to the shoot you get some excuse about her boyfriend did not tell her he needed the car, she got called into work, or did not remember to set the alarm. So we end up canceling the shoot.

However, first girl was already in route, so she was expecting to make money that day. I had moved around my schedule the night before, and that day to plan for a shoot and material. Now the girl is out money, and have to go through scheduling another shoot.

Now, in either situation. That same girl who last minute canceled, or did not show up at all will respond to my next shoot posting saying she can make it to the next one we are doing in a few days. She goes on to retell me whatever story she had for that other day, but no where in the e-mail, IM, phone call is an apology for wasting time and money for us.

This actually happens more than half the time. We do have some girls who are very responsible, and apologetic when something comes up. So it makes me more apt to consider scheduling, or holding a spot for them, compared to someone with no remorse.

I could go on with similar situations with coder/designers, but you can imagine similar circumstance alone if you have been in this business a few years.

Welcome to the wonderful world of working with people.

If you think this is any different now than it was before then maybe you just were in
the right place at the right time all the time until now.

I was a officer in the army with a platoon of 50 people, male and female.
They all had an issue at some point. No matter who they were and believe me their
problems were a lot more complicated then being late.

So just like I thought, this is something irritating to you but it didn't destroy you and
not going over board about it would have made it easier.

As far as people being late, I always plan on it so I don't get mad.

As far as no shows : Exactly what kind of business do you think you are in?
Do you really expect to always have the most reliable people in the world?

So a performer said they got called into work and you expect them to quit that
regular gig to do your porn shoot. Are you paying $10k a shoot or something?
Because paying $600 a shoot is not enough for anyone to lose their waitress job over.

Plan on it.

Somebody will be late and somebody will miss a shoot.

That's people.

You are just upset that the person who blew it didn't grovel enough.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by sortie

Welcome to the wonderful world of working with people.

If you think this is any different now than it was before then maybe you just were in
the right place at the right time all the time until now.

I was a officer in the army with a platoon of 50 people, male and female.
They all had an issue at some point. No matter who they were and believe me their
problems were a lot more complicated then being late.

So just like I thought, this is something irritating to you but it didn't destroy you and
not going over board about it would have made it easier.

As far as people being late, I always plan on it so I don't get mad.

As far as no shows : Exactly what kind of business do you think you are in?
Do you really expect to always have the most reliable people in the world?

So a performer said they got called into work and you expect them to quit that
regular gig to do your porn shoot. Are you paying $10k a shoot or something?
Because paying $600 a shoot is not enough for anyone to lose their waitress job over.

Plan on it.

Somebody will be late and somebody will miss a shoot.

That's people.

You are just upset that the person who blew it didn't grovel enough.

Wow. So you were in the army, and a leader of some kind, and you are still this ignorant? Impressive.

No little bitch. This is an ongoing observation that I notice with the age group as the over 25 crowd know the meaning of the dollar, easy work, and are not going to fuck up their long term options.

While I could further elaborate on situations both from dealing with models, coders and even going back to telco where I was a union steward for years and had to deal with similar, or worse, situations where people were making $50-80k and losing their jobs over the same attendance types of issues, and had awesome benefits....

I realized long ago not to waste my time trying to rationalize anything of sense with you.

Troll on....

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Wow. So you were in the army, and a leader of some kind, and you are still this ignorant? Impressive.

No little bitch. This is an ongoing observation that I notice with the age group as the over 25 crowd know the meaning of the dollar, easy work, and are not going to fuck up their long term options.

While I could further elaborate on situations both from dealing with models, coders and even going back to telco where I was a union steward for years and had to deal with similar, or worse, situations where people were making $50-80k and losing their jobs over the same attendance types of issues, and had awesome benefits....

I realized long ago not to waste my time trying to rationalize anything of sense with you.

Troll on....

So everyone who disagrees with your way of handling things is a troll.

Alright, I will leave you alone then if you feel trolled.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by sortie

So everyone who disagrees with your way of handling things is a troll.

Did I say that? No chief.

You disagree with a lot of people on this board. See your post history for reference.

Originally Posted by sortie

Alright, I will leave you alone then if you feel trolled.

Thank you.

[corbu]

Originally Posted by ContentSHOOTER

I shoot models from 18 to late 30 range. I personally would rather shoot a model that is in her late twenties to mid thirties, for the same reasons you posted originally

i agree.

[sexandcash]

age, wisdom and beauty don't usually go together....fraid' it seems

[JamesK]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Wow. So you were in the army, and a leader of some kind, and you are still this ignorant? Impressive.

He's taking AlienQ's old position

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by JamesK

He's taking AlienQ's old position

[Paul Markham]

I did a thread a few weeks ago about what people thought made a model "professional" got some interesting replies.

For years this business has thrown too much work at models, many of the shooters don't have the skills to impress on models how they should work. So we all end up getting the shitty end of the stick. I don't think it has a lot to do with her age, it's about who she is and what she thinks she can get away with.

Today if you HAVE to do a two girl, book three and if one is late send her home with no money. If they all turn up on time shoot a three girl. Assuming you can be flexible. Also never shoot a girl who you have not seen on a casting. Establish then, that you give and expect respect.

It was easier when models had less options.

We have always dealt with the less responsible people in the world. Learning to handle a camera takes a couple of days. Learning to handle models can take for ever.

[John-ACWM]

It's true what you say and sad at the same time because they prefer(or they just don't realize it) loosing friends rather than saying 'sorry'.

[Kard63]

Originally Posted by Antonio

Errrrrrrhhhhh, that's what being young is all about, no?

Not if you have good parents. Most people don't.

Originally Posted by Antonio

Would you rather have people being born wise and wrinkled?

Yes.