Fact - Social Security makes Madoff look tame.

Things will never be the same.

Madoff is a good guy

yeah they moved up the age once in 73 years. From 65 to 67 they passed that in 1983 and it didn't start taking effect until 20 years later. They won't move it up again anytime soon though they should. Is a 65 year old in 1935 the same as a 65 year old now? Hell now that like a 75 year old maybe even 80.

That being said is SS a scam? yes. Back in 1935 the average life expectancy was 63, yet you had to be 65 to get benefits. My math tells me the government figured at least half the people would be dead before recieving one check and most of the rest would die soon after. SS won't go away or get major changes until it's too late because of lobbies like the AARP. Old people vote. Politicians know it and the AARP knows thwey can scare old people into believing any BS they want to put out anytime some suggest changing the system.

Also back in the early days you only got a check if you were retired. Now you can get one and still work also you can get one for being disabled or your family can get one if you die while your kids are under 18. Now I'm not again someone getting back what they already had put in plus a bit of interest, but people usually get MUCH more and the requirements are too easy.

All it take is 10 years of work to get enough credits to qualify for "full" retirement. You need 40 credits and can get a max of 4 credits per year no matter how much you work. As of 2009 it only takes $1100 to get 1 credit. So earning as little as $4400 gets you your 4 credits. Now this number goes up slightly each year, but basically someone who is 16 right now will only have to earn $50,000-$55,000 TOTAL until age 26 and then never work again and get a "full" SS check. That person would have paid at most $3500 in SS taxes. Earning $4400 at the 2009 minimum wage of $7.25 would only take 12 hours a week. I feel to earn FULL benefits you need to be FULLY employed. To get disability you don't even need 40 credits.

On the flip side I also feel it's unfair to have to pay income taxes on the FICA taxes you pay. Your employer doesn't. They get to use that as a dedecution. You don't see that money. You might ever see that money. I think people should be able to deduct FICA taxes off their income. That's a fair tax cut because everyone can take advantage of it.

Also the governemnt want to encourage people to save for retirment with either 401K or IRA. Well if you're making $10 an hour or less and you're already paying 7.65% in FICA taxes you're not going put any money into a retirement account because you won't have it. Now SS part of FICA is 6.2%. So if you put in 6.2% of your income into a IRA or 401K then you shouldn't have to pay SS taxes. But that makes too much sense.

It is rediculous to expect someone making $7.25 an hour to pay 7.65% in FICA taxes and then put in 15% into an IRA. That's 22.65% $7.25 an hour is $15,080 a year after SS and IRA that would leave $11,700. If that person is single with no kids in 2009 his standard deduction and personal exemption come to $9350. So he'd have to pay income taxes on$5730 which at 10% is $573. So at the end of the day he's left with about $11,100 to live on. Yeah OK sure some guy is going to put 15% of his income away in an IRA with that little left over to live on.

If the government can get people to see how much better off they'd be without SS maybe changes can take place. The fewer people on SS the better. Can't make the changes to get people off of SS( which is impossible now since SS in madatory ) until they have other retirement savings in which to compare.

You seem to be forgetting the thousands and thousands of people who are collecting SS benefits who aren't anywhere near the age of retirement.

the disabled.

Without Social Security many of which would, at worst, end up homeless and hungry and at best, a heavy burden on those around them.

Not to say the SS system isn't horribly broken, though. But it isn't all bad.

Welfare is even worse. In the current economy, you can see the cumulative effects of 50 years of paying people to do nothing.

Social Security is the biggest Ponzi scheme in human history.

Please.. There a lot of very hard working people in this country who simply wouldn't be able to get by if it weren't for welfare. "Bootstrappers" would know that if they were in touch with reality. Not every one has the ability nor the opportunity to pull down six figure incomes.

But again, Not to say the system isn't a broken one but there is good it serves as well.

"Hardworking" and "welfare" are like oil and water.

Tell that to the single mom at walmart who just rang up your groceries that she isn't worth the 0.00000000032% of your tax dollar that went to help keep her child fed.

You get bonus points if you also spit in her face.

You get bonus points if you keep having more babies (or, you did at one point).

Good topic

Welfare is a necessary evil.


Would you rather have a whole population turning to crime instead of getting a hand out?


I have seen good people do bad things to support their families.

If I retired right now I would have $2,143 a month. And if I become disabled $1,756 a month.

With that I could live a lifestyle I left to get this one.

Sounds like going backwards to me.

Don't worry the bankers will take care of it all. They have trillions of dollars stashed away in foreign countries waiting for us all to hit SSI age and the coming 20%+ jobless rate. They are planning for our future. I'm sure they'll write you a check from their home on some remote island.

No I mentioned that you should try READING what I post before repsonding to my posts.

As I said when SS first came about it wasn't about helping the disabled. Should it be? maybe. The point is that if you are going to change the rules you need to change the system and it really hasn't been chaged to compensate for that. One exmaple is the age to collect benefits. It's gone up 2 years in the last 73 years even though life expectancy has gone up 16 years.

The fact is that people would be better off taking that 6.2% and buying a CD at the local bank that to give it to SS as far as what they'll get in retirement. Yeah people like my grandparents had it good because when they worked SS tax was only 1-2%. So in the end they got much more than they put in.

I have said this before and I will say it again... SS is nothing but a govt cookie jar. Back when it was created as a private organization it had a chance of being something really great and was done so specifically to keep it out of govt hands. Once they passed legislation that but control of SS into the hands of the govt it was doomed to fail.

You do all realize there IS NO MONEY, right? All those people getting checks from SS are only able to because of the money people are paying in to it today. How long do you think this cycle can continue and why do you think they keep fucking around with the ages of qualification.

IMHO, the only thing politicians and our govt are good for is seeing how much they can convince us that we should be forking over every paycheck, weekly, monthly or yearly. Federal Tax and State Tax (which is usually a quarter or more of your money right off the bat), Sales Tax, Property Tax (that they love to raise every chance they get), Taxes on vehicles, social security, the famous double taxes, etc. Then on top of all that, your health and dental you pay out the ass for for mediocre service at best, car insurance, life insurance, house insurance that you are lucky to collect without a fight if you ever need too.

All this and the average pay over the last 20 years has hardly increased at all compared to the inflation in our economy. Is it any wonder the shit is hitting the fan...