How does the index of a PR5 site suddenly become unranked?

**Fletch XXX** · 12-12-2008, 04:31 AM

really hard to say without looking at the site tbh

**DamageX** · 12-12-2008, 04:32 AM

Go to Google and do a site:yourdomain.com and see how many pages it says it has indexed. If the results look normal, then there may be some temporary fuck-up, they tend to happen.

**AmeliaG** · 12-12-2008, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

really hard to say without looking at the site tbh

Ah, good point. This is the main one I am concerned about, although, now that I'm looking at it, it looks like a bunch of my sites just dropped a couple of pageranks: http://www.blueblood.net

**AmeliaG** · 12-12-2008, 04:39 AM

Originally posted by DamageX

Go to Google and do a site:yourdomain.com and see how many pages it says it has indexed. If the results look normal, then there may be some temporary fuck-up, they tend to happen.

Hmm, looks like definitely at least a few thousand fewer pages indexed, a lot of weird tags pages indexed (although I've seen the tags pages off and on for quite a while, and the index page does not appear to be on there. Actually, just about no real article pages pages appear to be on there.

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by AmeliaG

http://www.blueblood.net

That site lists PR5 for me. Are you adding more outbound links (and thus shredding your reputation) than normal?

If the pages in question have dynamic content, and Google crawls your site frequently - you will see your site jump around as it becomes more or less relevant to various search terms.

I would recommend submitting an XML sitemap to Google that conforms to the 0.90 spec (http://sitemaps.org/). Feel free to hit me up on ICQ if you need more information or anything.

**Brujah** · 12-12-2008, 04:41 AM

It shows PR5 here, AmeliaG. It's PR3 for the index.php however. You should do some 301s for that I think, to keep the default domain rank high and not let the index.php dilute for various reasons.

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by Brujah

It's PR3 for the index.php however. You should do some 301s for that

Another excellent suggestion.

**AmeliaG** · 12-12-2008, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by leek

That site lists PR5 for me. Are you adding more outbound links (and thus shredding your reputation) than normal?

If the pages in question have dynamic content, and Google crawls your site frequently - you will see your site jump around as it becomes more or less relevant to various search terms.

I would recommend submitting an XML sitemap to Google that conforms to the 0.90 spec (http://sitemaps.org/). Feel free to hit me up on ICQ if you need more information or anything.

Article updates often have one to five links in an article of 400 to 1,200 words, although occasionally there is an article with none.

What does dynamic content mean in this context?

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by AmeliaG

What does dynamic content mean in this context?

As in, the content changes on one page. As you submit new articles and they get pushed to your homepage, older articles fall off - making that single page more or less relevant to certain search terms. You already mentioned your article pages are not being indexed. As I suggested, you should submit an XML sitemap to Google so that they have a full list of your articles and there is no question as to why they have or have not indexed them.

Originally posted by AmeliaG

Article updates often have one to five links in an article of 400 to 1,200 words, although occasionally there is an article with none.

Also, for any links in your articles that you do not want to share your reputation with, add the attribute rel="nofollow" to that links A tag.

**Machete_** · 12-12-2008, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by leek

That site lists PR5 for me. Are you adding more outbound links (and thus shredding your reputation) than normal?

If the pages in question have dynamic content, and Google crawls your site frequently - you will see your site jump around as it becomes more or less relevant to various search terms.

I would recommend submitting an XML sitemap to Google that conforms to the 0.90 spec (http://sitemaps.org/). Feel free to hit me up on ICQ if you need more information or anything.

Since it's a blog, and feeds are active, adding sitemaps do nothing whatsoever. Google know the pages are there.

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by ebus_dk

Since it's a blog, and feeds are active, adding sitemaps do nothing whatsoever. Google know the pages are there.

That's why they aren't listed on search results?

Quote from the Official Google Webmaster blog:

As a webmaster, you may have been concerned about your RSS/Atom feeds crowding out their associated HTML pages in Google's search results. By serving feeds, we could cause a poor user experience:

1. Feeds increase the likelihood that users see duplicate search results.
2. Users clicking on a feed may miss valuable content available only in the HTML page.

To address these concerns, we prevent feeds from being returned in Google's search results, with the exception of podcasts (feeds with multimedia enclosures).

Source: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogsp...eb-search.html

**Machete_** · 12-12-2008, 05:17 AM

Originally posted by leek

That's why they aren't listed on search results?

Quote from the Official Google Webmaster blog:

Source: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogsp...eb-search.html

you dont even understand what it is you read ...

The FEEDS dont show up in the searchresult. This have nothing to do with the SITE being indexed.

Google see the feeds, and see the source(the post) of the feed, the source(the post) is indexed but the feed is not, and should never ever be indexed, since its a FEED.

Try to understand the difference

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by ebus_dk

you dont even understand what it is you read ...

The FEEDS dont show up in the searchresult. This have nothing to do with the SITE being indexed.

Google see the feeds, and see the source(the post) of the feed, the source(the post) is indexed but the feed is not, and should never ever be indexed, since its a FEED.

Try to understand the difference

Wow. You're a real dickhead.

Yes. Google reads the feed and indexes it for iGoogle and Google Reader based searches. Google also uses RSS and Atom feeds as a type of sitemap in addition to the XML sitemap spec. Unfortunately, I've seen many occasions when pages that *should* be indexed because are in an RSS or Atom feed and they just aren't.

My original suggestion of submitting a supplemental XML sitemap is perfectly fine and certainly will not hurt.

But you're right, I shouldn't be arguing with you. I mean come on, look at your beautiful site http://ebusdk.com.

**Machete_** · 12-12-2008, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by leek

But you're right, I shouldn't be arguing with you. I mean come on, look at your beautiful site http://ebusdk.com.

What is listed there is all I need. Its Tax and payment info. I dont want new customers.

Go back and read your own link again http://googlewebmastercentral.blogsp...eb-search.html

It's about FEEDS, it have NOTHING to do with the original post being left out of the index. You still dont even understand what it is you are reading

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by ebus_dk

It's about FEEDS, it have NOTHING to do with the original post being left out of the index. You still dont even understand what it is you are reading

I never said that a feed doesn't also work as a sitemap in terms of indexing. I just pointed out that the feed results themselves aren't listed in search results. I already agreed with you that the original post can be indexed via the feed, you're just so blinded by being a dickhead that you failed to read it. Submitting an alternative sitemap isn't going to hurt anybody, so go argue and be bitter with someone else.

I believe I understand perfectly. So thanks anyways.

Now quit being rude and give the lady's thread back.

**Machete_** · 12-12-2008, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by leek

I never said that a feed doesn't also work as a sitemap in terms of indexing. I just pointed out that the feed results themselves aren't listed in search results. I already agreed with you that the original post can be indexed via the feed, you're just so blinded by being a dickhead that you failed to read it. Submitting an alternative sitemap isn't going to hurt anybody, so go argue and be bitter with someone else.

I believe I understand perfectly. So thanks anyways.

Now quit being rude and give the lady's thread back.

I never said it will hurt(but I know some will argue it does, since it's nonesential content.
what I DID say was "adding sitemaps do nothing whatsoever. Google know the pages are there."
You can add 5000 sitemaps and it will still not make any difference to her placement or rank

SERP's are dynamic - more now than ever. It will always change, and there is nothing you can do about it.

**TheDA** · 12-12-2008, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by Brujah

It shows PR5 here, AmeliaG. It's PR3 for the index.php however. You should do some 301s for that I think, to keep the default domain rank high and not let the index.php dilute for various reasons.

I've never come across that scenario before, but then again I've never looked.

So 301 the index.php to the bare root (http://www.domain.com/) that what you mean? In .htaccess?

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by TheDA

I've never come across that scenario before, but then again I've never looked.

So 301 the index.php to the bare root (http://www.domain.com/) that what you mean? In .htaccess?

Something like this should do the trick:

Code:

RewriteEngine on
RewriteBase /
RewriteRule ^index\.(htm|html|php) http://www.yourdomain.com/ [R=301,L]

Of course, you'll need mod_rewrite enabled.

**Antonio** · 12-12-2008, 06:18 AM

Si yo fuera maradona perdido en cualquier lugar la vida es una tombola de noche y de dia la vida es una tombola y arriba y arriba.

**Machete_** · 12-12-2008, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by AmeliaG

How does the index of a PR5 site suddenly become unranked?

I have one site which keeps moving around, in terms of how Google seems to view it, to a really dramatic degree. It has been PR5 or PR6 for many years, online for almost a decade, but sometimes it is all the way at the very end of the search results for obvious terms and sometimes it is #1. Right now, a couple of unimportant internal pages seem to come up and are PR2. What the heck is going on? Any thoughts?

If I check the DC's, they show your domains as PR5 as far back it can see.
I think the reson you see something else at apecific times, is because of a secondary Datacenter replying on the request or a error.

I see no need for you to start declaring 301 error specific redirects, as long as you have a 404 errorpage declared corectly. (point to /index.php and NOT domain.com/index.php)

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by ebus_dk

I see no need for you to start declaring 301 error specific redirects, as long as you have a 404 errorpage declared corectly. (point to /index.php and NOT domain.com/index.php)

Since blueblood.net and blueblood.net/index.php are effectively the same page and she cannot control the ~100 or so sites that link directly to http://www.blueblood.net/index.php it is a wise decision to set index.php to 301 redirect (not error) to the root of her domain. Each of the pages in question have different PageRanks despite the fact that they are the same page. This means that Google sees them as different pages. By setting a 301 redirect from one to the other, Google merges the pages into one. This will combine the reputations of both pages into one and increase that singular page's importance.

Please read Google's guide on when to use 301 redirects here:
http://www.google.com/support/webmas...n&answer=93633

Note the part that says:

301 redirects are particularly useful in the following circumstances:

* People access your site through several different URLs. If, for example, your home page can be reached in multiple ways - for instance, http://example.com/home, http://home.example.com, or http://www.example.com - it's a good idea to pick one of those URLs as your preferred (canonical) destination, and use 301 redirects to send traffic from the other URLs to your preferred URL. You can also use Webmaster Tools to set your preferred domain.

Now please be quiet and let the grown ups talk.

**Brujah** · 12-12-2008, 07:09 AM

Post #21 = wrong.
Post #22 = correct.

**Machete_** · 12-12-2008, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by leek

Since blueblood.net and blueblood.net/index.php are effectively the same page and she cannot control the ~100 or so sites that link directly to http://www.blueblood.net/index.php it is a wise decision to set index.php to 301 redirect (not error) to the root of her domain. Each of the pages in question have different PageRanks despite the fact that they are the same page. This means that Google sees them as different pages. By setting a 301 redirect from one to the other, Google merges the pages into one. This will combine the reputations of both pages into one and increase that singular page's importance.

Please read Google's guide on when to use 301 redirects here:
http://www.google.com/support/webmas...n&answer=93633

Note the part that says:

Now please be quiet and let the grown ups talk.

AGAIN you prove you dont understand what it is you are reading

They are diferenciating between
http://example.com/home
http://home.example.com
http://www.example.com

NOT
http://www.example.com
and
http://example.com

Check her site...

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by ebus_dk

AGAIN you prove you dont understand what it is you are reading

They are diferenciating between
http://example.com/home
http://home.example.com
http://www.example.com

NOT
http://www.example.com
and
http://example.com

Check her site...

umm.. Can you read?

In my post I am obviously differentiating between:
http://www.blueblood.net/index.php
and
http://www.blueblood.net/

I'm done with this clown. Can someone else please beat some sense into him?

**Machete_** · 12-12-2008, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by leek

umm.. Can you read?

In my post I am obviously differentiating between:
http://www.blueblood.net/index.php
and
http://www.blueblood.net/

I'm done with this clown. Can someone else please beat some sense into him?

uhhmm .. its your own post im quoting

People access your site through several different URLs. If, for example, your home page can be reached in multiple ways - for instance, http://example.com/home, http://home.example.com, or http://www.example.com -

Im sorry to bust your GFY Forum SEO Expertice, but people linking to domain.com/index.php instead of domain.com mean nothing when it comes to PR(of domain.com), SERP or how well the site index'es

Maybe you should go back to making CS macros?

**pornguy** · 12-12-2008, 07:30 AM

Amelia I sent you an ICQ with a bit of info about this. And also with a question. Feel free to get back to me when you can.

**Brujah** · 12-12-2008, 07:30 AM

leek is correct, I don't know what ebus is smoking.

There's a reason that PR is different on AmeliaG's default page(s), because Google is seeing them as different. That's why domain.com has PR5 while domain.com/index.php has PR3.

It is better to correct this with a 301, than to take ebus' advice. It may strengthen the PR5, because currently it looks like a weak 5 based on the sub pages of the site with mostly 3's and 2s at best.

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 07:34 AM

ITT:

**Machete_** · 12-12-2008, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by Brujah

leek is correct, I don't know what ebus is smoking.

There's a reason that PR is different on AmeliaG's default page(s), because Google is seeing them as different. That's why domain.com has PR5 while domain.com/index.php has PR3.

It is better to correct this with a 301, than to take ebus' advice. It may strengthen the PR5, because currently it looks like a weak 5 based on the sub pages of the site with mostly 3's and 2s at best.

I honestly dont care what people think of me man - i'm not here to make friends.

If people want to trust Richard over me, that is not my worries.

Im just stating facts, and the fact is Richard dont understand what it is he is reading.

Redirecting domain.com/index.php to domain.com means nothing at all.

**Brujah** · 12-12-2008, 08:00 AM

I haven't read all of the SEO advice given in this topic, only the responses regarding the 301 issue I mentioned previously.

Here's an article that touches on the 301 index redirect issue:
http://www.askapache.com/htaccess/re...blog-root.html

WordPress blogs show the same duplicate content for http://www.askapache.com/index.php and http://www.askapache.com/. If you’ve read about using a robots.txt file for WordPress SEO, than you already understand this setup results in Duplicate Content penalties being levied against your Blog and Web Site by Search Engines.

Google's Matt Cutts touches on it:
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-ad...onicalization/

Google's Adam Lasnik on the issue:

Be consistent: Endeavor to keep your internal linking consistent; don't link to /page/ and /page and /page/index.htm.

http://googlewebmastercentral.blogsp...e-content.html

This is an issue where it isn't going to harm her by adding the 301, but most certainly can help her. Why not do it?

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Brujah

This is an issue where it isn't going to harm her by adding the 301, but most certainly can help her. Why not do it?

Thank you Brujah. Excellent links. Finally, someone with some sense.

**PR|Jordan** · 12-12-2008, 09:21 AM

I have a site that 3 times a month the index (which is normally on page 1) will drop off only to come back the next day.

**marcjacob** · 12-12-2008, 10:58 AM

Leek: I kind of half understand what your saying, just to be clear, should every wordpress blog do the 301 thing you suggest then?

**leek** · 12-12-2008, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by marcjacob

Leek: I kind of half understand what your saying, just to be clear, should every wordpress blog do the 301 thing you suggest then?

Actually, I believe the latest version(s) of Wordpress do something similar to this already (because they realize how important it is).

Try this to see if you're all set:

Pull up your browser and goto http://www.yourdomain.com/index.php
Keep an eye on your address bar, if you notice that you get autoforwarded to http://www.yourdomain.com then most likely your site is already doing a 301 redirect.

The .htaccess snippet I gave should mainly be used for sites that have a DirectoryIndex of index.html, index.htm, or index.php. It is a very simple change that probably won't have that drastic of an affect. But when it comes to SEO, every little bit helps.

**papill0n** · 12-12-2008, 05:21 PM

Good posts leek

**Doctor Feelgood** · 12-13-2008, 01:00 AM

i use this in my htaccess file

# redirects index.php to main url
RewriteCond %{THE_REQUEST} ^.*/index.php
RewriteRule ^(.*)index.php$ http://www.yoursite.com/$1 [R=301,L]

**Doctor Feelgood** · 12-13-2008, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by Doctor Feelgood

# redirects index.php to main url
RewriteCond %{THE_REQUEST} ^.*/index.php
RewriteRule ^(.*)index.php$ http://www.yoursite.com/$1 [R=301,L]

make sure you put this somewhere

RewriteEngine on

**JamesK** · 12-13-2008, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by Doctor Feelgood

# redirects index.php to main url
RewriteCond %{THE_REQUEST} ^.*/index.php
RewriteRule ^(.*)index.php$ http://www.yoursite.com/$1 [R=301,L]

Sweet, thanks

**leek** · 12-13-2008, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by leek

Something like this should do the trick:

Code:

RewriteEngine on
RewriteBase /
RewriteRule ^index\.(htm|html|php) http://www.yourdomain.com/ [R=301,L]

Of course, you'll need mod_rewrite enabled.

Originally posted by Doctor Feelgood

# redirects index.php to main url
RewriteCond %{THE_REQUEST} ^.*/index.php
RewriteRule ^(.*)index.php$ http://www.yoursite.com/$1 [R=301,L]

Doctor Feelgood's will work but it slightly more taxing on the RegEx engine and tries to do work on *all* requests that have index.php in them, which can interfere with other mod_rewrite rules.

Mine works for index.html, index.htm, and index.php only and shouldn't interfere with other rules.

**TheDA** · 12-14-2008, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by leek

Something like this should do the trick:

Code:

RewriteEngine on
RewriteBase /
RewriteRule ^index\.(htm|html|php) http://www.yourdomain.com/ [R=301,L]

Of course, you'll need mod_rewrite enabled.

Thanks for the info on this. It turned out to be a very interesting thread

**F-U-Jimmy** · 12-14-2008, 08:40 AM

This may be of help ?

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=875416

**Doctor Feelgood** · 12-14-2008, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by leek

Something like this should do the trick:

Code:

RewriteEngine on
RewriteBase /
RewriteRule ^index\.(htm|html|php) http://www.yourdomain.com/ [R=301,L]

Of course, you'll need mod_rewrite enabled.

that doesnt work on my server so i have to use this and added a line to ignore the directory with my linkex script. you can just replace linkex with any directory that you want it to ignore. but i dont think this is amelia`s problem. her problem on google is called the "yo-yo effect". its google testing the sites trust.

RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{THE_REQUEST} ^.*/index.php
RewriteCond %{THE_REQUEST} !/linkex/ [NC]
RewriteRule ^(.*)index.php$ http://www.yoursite.com/$1 [R=301,L]

**AmeliaG** · 12-15-2008, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Feelgood

that doesnt work on my server so i have to use this and added a line to ignore the directory with my linkex script. you can just replace linkex with any directory that you want it to ignore. but i dont think this is amelia`s problem. her problem on google is called the "yo-yo effect". its google testing the sites trust.

RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{THE_REQUEST} ^.*/index.php
RewriteCond %{THE_REQUEST} !/linkex/ [NC]
RewriteRule ^(.*)index.php$ http://www.yoursite.com/$1 [R=301,L]

Yo-yo effect surely seems to describe what I've got going on. I'm going to get the WP upgraded and then make sure everything goes to the root and not index.php, if the new WP doesn't do that automatically. Once that is done, though, what exactly does Google do to test a site's trust?

How does the index of a PR5 site suddenly become unranked?

How does the index of a PR5 site suddenly become unranked?

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