Trafficholder 'Cheating' ?

[wfb]

Hi everyone,

as we all know (or not?) trafficholder does not allow pop-ups or exit consoles of any type.
3 days ago I saw my traffic being bought/forwarded to a domain having a exit console. As always I made a screenshot and reported this abuse (in a year span I report about 30-40 sites).

this was the response:

Thank you for contacting Traffic Holder with your concern. Request ID:
Please keep the ticket number in the subject line when you reply to this e-mail.

Dear Customer, thank you for the abuse report.

The nichegalz.com is our testing system resource.

We do not allow consoles of any kind but in this particular
case we're using it for testing purposes.

Thank you for understanding. Have a nice day.

Please do let us know if we can assist you any further,

+1 (213) 985-1003
http://www.trafficholder.com/

Customer Service Department,
TH Media S.R.O.

So yep they buy traffic and 'cheat' (?)...


I added a question mark to the topic since of course it is open to debate and I do not wish to loose my trafficholder account over possible speculation

[Iron Fist]

Well isn't that interesting.

[marko13]

sig spot....

[CaptainHowdy]

Just passing by ...

[RenegadeCash Mark]

interesting sure

[Stellar]

I think what they are explaining,

is that the new traffic testing system they have implemented might use popups in some fashion.

I know Artem personally, and I can assure you he is one of the most honest people I have ever met in this business.

People complain about the traffic, but as with any traffic source.. you have to do some tests to find out what works for you, hence this new testing system.

Never heard one viable complaint about Artem cheating anyone at all, he is very proactive in protecting his reputation.

[wfb]

Originally Posted by Stellar

I think what they are explaining,

is that the new traffic testing system they have implemented might use popups in some fashion.

I know Artem personally, and I can assure you he is one of the most honest people I have ever met in this business.

People complain about the traffic, but as with any traffic source.. you have to do some tests to find out what works for you, hence this new testing system.

Never heard one viable complaint about Artem cheating anyone at all, he is very proactive in protecting his reputation.

I hope he is.

But why forbid using pop-ups to your clients but use themself?

[HorseShit]

never liked their traffic anyways

[Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by wfb

I hope he is.

But why forbid using pop-ups to your clients but use themself?

Like he said, testing new system, maybe they will see how it goes and if it works good, allow clients to use it...

[seeandsee]

i was here!

[Tempest]

Cheating??? Wouldn't know about that... but hey.. If you buy ENGLISH traffic like from Canada, you're going to get non english as well cause they're morons over there and send the traffic to you as long as EN show's up ANYWHERE in the HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE string.

[Stellar]

Originally Posted by wfb

I hope he is.

But why forbid using pop-ups to your clients but use themself?

Look,

if Artem is using a popup, I can assure you it's only for his new traffic testing system.. which main goal is to find traffic that works for you so you can purchase it the normal way.

With that said, if you do purchase traffic the normal way instead of the testing system, there will be NO POPUPS. They are only there to benefit you solely for TESTING purposes.

There are no popups allowed in the normal traffic buying system, the traffic would be polluted as hell.

Lastly,

the only reason he is using a popup is to help you get a line on some viable traffic to purchase the normal way and turn a profit. So why would your traffic to be exposed to other people's popups in the first place? It would only hurt you immediately.

In a nutshell - the only reason you are seeing a popup is because you are currently testing traffic streams - this is to help you and only you, they certaintly don't benefit from it - when you buy traffic normally there is NO popups what so ever - if there was popups in the traffic for everyone to use it would be the worst traffic ever - this is why no traffic good broker lets you have pop ups.

[Stellar]

Originally Posted by Tempest

Cheating??? Wouldn't know about that... but hey.. If you buy ENGLISH traffic like from Canada, you're going to get non english as well cause they're morons over there and send the traffic to you as long as EN show's up ANYWHERE in the HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE string.

Now that's more interesting.

You don't think they would identify that problem and somehow try to work around it?

The man has got integrity, and he knows if his product doesn't work ultimately it's going to fail.. He is the leader in the business.

[Machete_]

Originally Posted by Stellar

You don't think they would identify that problem and somehow try to work around it?

The man has got integrity, and he knows if his product doesn't work ultimately it's going to fail.. He is the leader in the business.

How about you take Trafficholders cock out of your mouth and let them explain this themselves, instead of you guessing a first-line support answer?

I'm sure that would be better for both the customer and Trafficholder

[wfb]

Originally Posted by Stellar

Look,

if Artem is using a popup, I can assure you it's only for his new traffic testing system.. which main goal is to find traffic that works for you so you can purchase it the normal way.

With that said, if you do purchase traffic the normal way instead of the testing system, there will be NO POPUPS. They are only there to benefit you solely for TESTING purposes.

There are no popups allowed in the normal traffic buying system, the traffic would be polluted as hell.

Lastly,

the only reason he is using a popup is to help you get a line on some viable traffic to purchase the normal way and turn a profit. So why would your traffic to be exposed to other people's popups in the first place? It would only hurt you immediately.

I'm sorry but I'm really not seeing your point.

If someone BUYS traffic FROM ME, for 3$ the 1k (or any other normal trafficholder rate).
If that buyer then puts a pop-up or exit console on his site. Then he gets a lot more money out of the purchased traffic.

In other words the buyer profits from my cheap traffic by using an exit console.

So I NEVER benefit from this situation, I only get ripped off.

I also Did not buy any traffic at this point, so testing system or not... I don't care since I do no benefit from it but the buyer
does.

Originally Posted by Stellar

In a nutshell - the only reason you are seeing a popup is because you are currently testing traffic streams - this is to help you and only you, they certaintly don't benefit from it - when you buy traffic normally there is NO popups what so ever - if there was popups in the traffic for everyone to use it would be the worst traffic ever - this is why no traffic good broker lets you have pop ups.

I'm not testing anything, I am selling traffic not buying!

[Stellar]

Originally Posted by wfb

I'm sorry but I'm really not seeing your point.

If someone BUYS traffic FROM ME, for 3$ the 1k (or any other normal trafficholder rate).
If that buyer then puts a pop-up or exit console on his site. Then he gets a lot more money out of the purchased traffic.

In other words the buyer profits from my cheap traffic by using an exit console.

So I NEVER benefit from this situation, I only get ripped off.

I also Did not buy any traffic at this point, so testing system or not... I don't care since I do no benefit from it but the buyer does.

Umm,

you=fail.

I was under the impression you had a faint idea of how things work, apologies.

Yes if you were to put a popup under one of your sites you are buying traffic for, you would spread the traffic out more.

But in turn if you were allowed to do this, so would everyone else. In that case buyers would not buy the pop up littered traffic in the first place so you would not have any clients or buyers in the first place and you traffic would be utterly worthless. All of it would be littered with pop up consoles, one giant clusterfuck.

I thought this thread was about TH cheating, but apparently you haven't bought any traffic from them at all so you don't have the slightest clue. Looks more like this is about your wanting to add pop ups, and thinking it's not fair that you can't.

The rules are in place for a reason, and if you have an example of what you think Traffic Holder might be doing in terms of "cheating", you need to post it for all to see before asking questions about it.. because we have no idea what your talking about.

[wfb]

I SELL traffic to trafficholder in the idea it is sold to sites WITHOUT pop-ups.

If I see my traffic goes to a site with a pop-up being from trafficholder itself then I'm being cheated.

I do not wish to introduce pop-ups on my site and never will. Please read my first post again, everything is explained there.

Its seems you keep going on about me buying traffic, if you would have read the first post , you would have seen it is going about selling traffic to trafficholder. I hope it becomes more clear to you now.

[Stellar]

Originally Posted by ebus_dk

How about you take Trafficholders cock out of your mouth and let them explain this themselves, instead of you guessing a first-line support answer?

I'm sure that would be better for both the customer and Trafficholder

Ebus your a negative fucking idiot who always drops in for a first grade bitch and moan session.

Get a fucking life,

I have done a lot of good business with Artem in the past, you got a problem with people vouching for their partners and friends?

This guy clearly has no fucking idea what he is talking about, yet you want to defy logic and find a way to side against me.. when I'm not doing anything but being honest.

Artem is based out of prague, so there is a language barrier. I am only clarifying the facts I know about his business, nothing wrong with that.

Sorry I don't like the see my partners/friends get bashed when they aren't around to defend themselves by a guy with zero fucking facts and obviously little experience.

Regardless,

doesn't take much to see your a complete fucking moron who has nothing to contribute except a bunch of cunt-like behavior.

Good luck with that you grumpy sad little fuck

[Machete_]

Originally Posted by Stellar

Ebus your a negative fucking idiot who always drops in for a first grade bitch and moan session.

Get a fucking life,

I have done a lot of good business with Artem in the past, you got a problem with people vouching for their partners and friends?

This guy clearly has no fucking idea what he is talking about, yet you want to defy logic and find a way to side against me.. when I'm not doing anything but being honest.

Artem is based out of prague, so there is a language barrier. I am only clarifying the facts I know about his business, nothing wrong with that.

Sorry I don't like the see my partners/friends get bashed when they aren't around to defend themselves by a guy with zero fucking facts and obviously little experience.

Regardless,

doesn't take much to see your a complete fucking moron who has nothing to contribute except a bunch of cunt-like behavior.

Good luck with that you grumpy sad little fuck

Look at what he writes for fucks sake, he SELLS traffic and DONT WANT HIS SURFERS TO GET REDIRECTED TO POPUP SITES!!!!

and yet you keep running your mouth on how much this guy is the new messiah and have integrity blablabla... READ the fucking post!!!!

[wfb]

Originally Posted by Stellar

This guy clearly has no fucking idea what he is talking about, yet you want to defy logic and find a way to side against me.. when I'm not doing anything but being honest.

I actually hope I do.
Trafficholder has bought for over 11 000$ traffic from my sites/network the past year.

I'm not talking about buying traffic since I do not buy traffic normally. I do sell a lot of traffic to trafficholder. So please reread the first post of this topic and stop talking about me buying traffic since that is something I'm not doing.

Anyhow as long you do not read my first post, I'm going t stop responding to your posts in the hope some day you will read the first post and see where this topic is all about.

[Stellar]

Originally Posted by wfb

I SELL traffic to trafficholder in the idea it is sold to sites WITHOUT pop-ups.

If I see my traffic goes to a site with a pop-up being from trafficholder itself then I'm being cheated.

I do not wish to introduce pop-ups on my site and never will. Please read my first post again, everything is explained there.

Its seems you keep going on about me buying traffic, if you would have read the first post , you would have seen it is going about selling traffic to trafficholder. I hope it becomes more clear to you now.

To answer your question quite simply,

TH does not allow pop ups of any kind.

If you are seeing a popup of some sort, show them the example and they will kill it immediately.

Apologies for mis-interpreting you, wasn't that clear.

[Stellar]

Originally Posted by wfb

I actually hope I do.
Trafficholder has bought for over 11 000$ traffic from my sites/network the past year.

I'm not talking about buying traffic since I do not buy traffic normally. I do sell a lot of traffic to trafficholder. So please reread the first post of this topic and stop talking about me buying traffic since that is something I'm not doing.

Again,

I do apologize.

I mis-interpreted what you were saying entirely.

My fault.

[wfb]

Ok thanks for reading the first post again, I know stuff can be confusing at a forum sometimes ;)

I do have the proof (a screenshot) but at this point do not feel like bashing trafficholder since I do good business with them and would still want to in the future.
The screenshot however was delivered at the trafficholder support team and they gave a statement that makes me eyebrown.

So anyone else had this or any idea why they would do this besides making extra money out of my traffic with a exit console?

[bbm]

I think, they is not cheating.

[brassmonkey]

dont buy traffic

[Adam X]

An isolated offender somewhere.. no need to worry.. TH is straight.. right?

We also have great traffic.

[wfb]

Originally Posted by Adam X

An isolated offender somewhere.. no need to worry.. TH is straight.. right?

It is a site from trafficholder itself..

[GirlsOnYou]

Yes I can confirm what wfb said.. their traffic quality testing site (that takes around 2% of the traffic you sell to them) has an exit console saying something like: "Are you sure you want to exit?" that sucks and imo their reason for having it is stupid.

[doridori]

interesting.....

[wfb]

Originally Posted by GirlsOnYou

imo their reason for having it is stupid.

Thanks for verification.

It's probably their way to earn a little bit more out of the traffic.

I must say that selling traffic to trafficholder does bring in decent money compaired with other brokers. However they should state that they take about 2% of your traffic...

Well, I know Mr. Artem Guitz very well ( so does Stellar it seems ) and trust me he is a very decent person and as you wfb already stated it brings in decent money compaired to other brokers.
Now mistakes are made and even very stupid mistakes but what I do remember that there is a very good team of people involved in TrafficHolder that can help to straighten out any fuck ups.
What does strike me that no other brokers game in to bash TrafficHolder except for the new sales person AdamX of ProTraffic?
or AdamX did you just sold your siggy?

sorry for the typo's:
game should be came and other glitches

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Stellar

Now that's more interesting.

You don't think they would identify that problem and somehow try to work around it?

The man has got integrity, and he knows if his product doesn't work ultimately it's going to fail.. He is the leader in the business.

Idiot.....

All English_Ca traffic is coming from CA (Canada) and english
language set in browser. However, there are few languages could be
set in browser, for example FR (French) and EN (english)

We do not guarantee "Primary" language, but we do guarantee,
that language is exists at browser settings.

We have tested our traffic with $_SERVER['HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE'] string
and the results are below:

IP Language Country

70.81.31.185|en-us|CA
76.10.185.80|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
207.210.56.153|en-us|CA
132.205.126.144|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
70.51.130.131|en-us|CA
70.83.29.122|fr,fr-fr;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3|CA
70.53.64.138|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
208.38.15.162|en-us|CA
99.252.44.42|en-us|CA
65.92.66.249|en-us|CA
99.252.5.131|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
24.146.6.94|en-us|CA
74.12.3.139|en-us|CA
24.84.125.219|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
74.13.127.28|en-us|CA
70.50.167.179|fr,fr-fr;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3|CA
99.250.124.207|en-us|CA
75.157.20.20|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
96.20.12.21|en-us,fr-ca;q=0.5|CA
24.150.35.252|en-us|CA
24.78.32.212|en-us|CA
72.45.119.219|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
99.254.199.243|en-us|CA
72.138.31.152|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
24.122.93.40|fr,fr-fr;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3|CA
24.226.39.95|en-us|CA
207.6.236.243|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
99.248.79.98|en-us|CA
74.59.81.89|fr,fr-fr;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3|CA
161.184.178.34|en-us|CA
67.70.200.216|en-us|CA
67.70.17.227|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
65.92.171.22|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
67.71.117.45|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
74.210.9.157|en-us|CA
99.224.151.225|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
24.201.76.22|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
99.244.99.105|en-us|CA
24.78.54.5|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
209.52.101.229|en-us|CA
209.239.21.152|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
24.36.33.129|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
63.243.173.75|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
69.157.8.153|en-us|CA
65.93.25.175|en-us|CA
65.93.25.175|en-us|CA
99.243.59.156|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
24.78.175.163|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
216.232.198.161|en-us|CA
209.239.29.24|en-us|CA
68.149.153.223|en-us|CA
216.154.16.192|en-us,en;q=0.5|CA
74.13.211.148|en-us|CA
76.70.11.115|en-us|CA
71.17.138.176|en-us|CA
69.156.208.246|en-us|CA
75.154.85.109|en-us|CA
142.163.73.134|en-us|CA
198.166.37.103|en-us|CA
24.201.97.143|fr,fr-fr;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3|CA

As you can see, sometimes strings could contain fr,-fr-fr;q=0.8, en-us, etc

Notice how they sent me french traffic??? i.e. that the primary language was FRENCH and not ENGLISH??? There were others.. 8%-10% of the traffic was NOT primarily english speaking... Having bought "English language from Canada", I was expecting to get ENGLISH.

Dear Customer,

Our geo combo niches resell traffic by geo-location and language.

We can't guarantee that requested English language will be primary
at browser settings. But we do guarantee that english language is
added to browser languages.

If you was not satisfied with a traffic received, as you expected
english as a primary language, please stop your orders and let
us know according to your stats, how much we should refund you for
hits with primary language not english.

Please note, we will refund this amount only once, refund
will not apply to your possible future purchases.

If you need an option to purchase primary english hits only, please
let us know, we will probably setup this option.

So there you go.. They know what they're doing... The fix is so freakin easy it's a joke that they don't implement it.

The way they have it implemented should indicate to anyone that if you're buying a specific language, you're not getting 100% THAT language and only that language.

[TrafficHolder]

Dear Webmasters,

Artem is here.

Stellar thank you so much for your kind words, however, I still have no idea
who are you

Dear webmasters that complain about "pop-up" at our testing page.
First of all, its not a pop-up, its a simple Java Prompt without ANY advertising
purposes (as you probably noticed).

This java prompt is required for traffic testing purposes, thats why it was implemented.

Regarding "cheating": According to Traffic Holder policies, we do not allow pop-ups and
consoles. There are no policy about java prompts. Please understand the difference
between pop-up and java prompt. One, simple java prompt is allowed in case if its really
required.

Tempest, where you saw that we offer geo-combo traffic by PRIMARY language?

Our rules clearly show:

Geo-Extreme is a combination of filtering by browser language and by geographical location

Where you see word "PRIMARY" ?

[wfb]

Ok thanks for entering the topic,

So all webmasters are allowed to use java prompts when using trafficholder?

[TrafficHolder]

Thumblord, thank you for your support, I really appreciate that.

Wfb, according to Terms of Service (link at the main page)
there are NO RULES about java prompts. According to second policy:
We reserve the right to deny service to any individual or URL at our discretion.

It does mean, that you can submit website with JAVA prompt for approval, but
we have full rights to deny it, but we can approve it in some cases, if you able
to prove us why its required or by our sole discretion, according to our
experience and current operational status. So, normally we won't
approve websites with Java prompts, but sometimes we can allow that,
because there are no strict, fixed rules about java prompts.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by TrafficHolder

Tempest, where you saw that we offer geo-combo traffic by PRIMARY language?

Our rules clearly show:

Geo-Extreme is a combination of filtering by browser language and by geographical location

Where you see word "PRIMARY" ?

Where do you say that a person buying ENGLISH isn't going to get 100% english? If I go to a store and say give me 20 red peppers, I'm not expecting to get 15 red peppers and 5 green ones because I didn't say the PRIMARY should be red or that ALL of them must be red. The vast majority of WMs don't know shit about the language setting in the browsers and how it works.. They buy a language and they expect to get that language. You're clearing cheating your customers since no where do you state that there will be some other languages mixed in. The fact that you don't even see this as an issue makes me question what else you may be doing to cheat people.

I paid for ENGLISH... You sent me some French and didn't tell me you would be doing that even though I bought ENGLISH.. How is that not cheating me?

[TrafficHolder]

Originally Posted by Tempest

Where do you say that a person buying ENGLISH isn't going to get 100% english? If I go to a store and say give me 20 red peppers, I'm not expecting to get 15 red peppers and 5 green ones because I didn't say the PRIMARY should be red or that ALL of them must be red. The vast majority of WMs don't know shit about the language setting in the browsers and how it works.. They buy a language and they expect to get that language. You're clearing cheating your customers since no where do you state that there will be some other languages mixed in. The fact that you don't even see this as an issue makes me question what else you may be doing to cheat people.

I paid for ENGLISH... You sent me some French and didn't tell me you would be doing that even though I bought ENGLISH.. How is that not cheating me?

If you purchase geo-combo traffic, you receive traffic with english language detected
at browser, it could be non-primary as well. However, we offered you two options:

1) Either you get a refund for traffic if you misunderstood our terms (so I do not understand why you complaining, we offered you full refund)

2) Either we setup especially for you niches with primary languages..

Both options are still possible. So we just waiting for your reply to the ticket.
What is your goal - to complain or to fix the issue?

[notime]

Originally Posted by Retox Josh

Like he said, testing new system, maybe they will see how it goes and if it works good, allow clients to use it...

what's all this testing lately from everybody ?

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by TrafficHolder

If you purchase geo-combo traffic, you receive traffic with english language detected
at browser, it could be non-primary as well. However, we offered you two options:

1) Either you get a refund for traffic if you misunderstood our terms (so I do not understand why you complaining, we offered you full refund)

2) Either we setup especially for you niches with primary languages..

Both options are still possible. So we just waiting for your reply to the ticket.
What is your goal - to complain or to fix the issue?

My Goal is that you do the right thing and put in the 2-4 lines of code required so that when ANYONE buys a specfic language that you deliver 100% that language... Fixing things for me is all fine but I want to see it done so that NO ONE gets mislead by your so called "terms".. but once again.. your "terms" do not tell anyone that they're not going to get what they ordered. The vast majority of your customers are going to expect to get 100% of the language they ordered since nowhere do you say that you send traffic if the language is detected anywhere in the language string as opposed to it being the primary language of the surfer..

[TrafficHolder]

Originally Posted by Tempest

My Goal is that you do the right thing and put in the 2-4 lines of code required so that when ANYONE buys a specfic language that you deliver 100% that language... Fixing things for me is all fine but I want to see it done so that NO ONE gets mislead by your so called "terms".. but once again.. your "terms" do not tell anyone that they're not going to get what they ordered. The vast majority of your customers are going to expect to get 100% of the language they ordered since nowhere do you say that you send traffic if the language is detected anywhere in the language string as opposed to it being the primary language of the surfer..

Dear Tempest,

We always appreciate to hear if something should be improved at our side.

If you purchase GEO combo traffic, you may receive about 8-10% of non-primary
languages. What we did - we've contacted major buyers and they told us its okay,
thats why it was not changed.

For sure, we can change it very easy, its not a problem at all, but traffic price will
be a little bit higher then. So you will not receive 8-10% of non-primary language
traffic, but you will pay almost the same. Thats why some customers prefer
to stay at current option.

Okay, what we will do - we will add option to choice - primary language (it will be
by default, but with a little bit higher price) or primary + non primary language,
so buyer will choose himself.

If this solution will satisfy you?

Thank you again for constructive proposal.

Dear WFB,

In simple words, do not worry about java prompts at our test page, we care
about system cleanness very much. But this java prompt is *really* required
to test traffic & guarantee traffic quality.

This is one and only reason, why this rule was not added to TOS.

[SlammedMedia]

Traffic Holder blows

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by TrafficHolder

Okay, what we will do - we will add option to choice - primary language (it will be by default, but with a little bit higher price) or primary + non primary language, so buyer will choose himself.

If this solution will satisfy you?

As long as it's all clearly spelled out I'm fine with it.