It's not 700 billion folks. It's 7.7 trillion.

they should just give everyone 40 yr 5 percent mortgages.much cheaper.

The whole thing is fucked up.

Ron Paul, Peter Schiff and Jim Rogers have been right and are right now. Get ready for massive inflation down the road.

Obama and his team have been and are 100% wrong.

the money masters is awesome...i was thinking it was called the money changers...thanks for the link i lost track of that

I posted that news 2 days ago.. got 0 reply... People just choose not to care.. lol

haha Ive been trying to ignore all the signs we are royally fucked.

It's hard to get people to wake up. We all have to do our part. It's hard for me to believe that it's true and I come from a financial background. Spent 5 years in the mortgage business even a co-owner in a mortgage company but I never knew that this is how banks worked. I did however see the shit going down hill long before. Got out of the business 7 years ago.

So now you know why they ask you to put 10-20% down. If you put 10% down they put that in reserves and can loan out 100% of that. If you put down 20% they can loan out 100% of that but you only get 100% or less. You pay on that loan for 60, 180, 360 month with interest on money they make up in the computer.

I think also it has to go back to the old days the bank that gave you the mortgage held it til it was paid off.

And like Peter Schiff says get rid of the idea that "you can get rich living in your house". But a massive drop in real estate value would have to happen for both cases to happen.

It's not necessarily that people don't care about the numbers, but rather the numbers have become so huge to the point of imcomprehensibility.

People do care about the "bailouts" and many are voicing anger, even outrage, about how seemingly all the money is going into a blackhole; going to many corrupt, rich people who got the country into this mess.

Ron

Why exactly is the Tax Payer who didn't live beyond their means, didn't get into debt and managed their own money supposed to bail out all those fucking dipshits who thought they could live in a Dream World? Fuck 'em. Let them starve and die. Less idiots on the road. It's for the greater good and our posterity. Remove the idiots and source of the problem. Problem solved. Or sell them to other countries into slavery.

It wasn't the real estate market that took down the financial system really. This is what took it down

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...P?OpenDocument

Let's see...after all my deductions I paid 80 grand in federal income tax last year. I'm on par to do the same thing this year. How about instead of giving all the tax money away, they just let us fucking keep it to begin with?

Just to add a little more. They are going to come to us. And I mean the world. They are going to propose a new world currency. Not just a NAU Amero. You have to understand the difference between the options laid out. One is what we have now which isn't working. It is being proposed by Gordon Brown, a banker controlled system. Make or break an economy as they wish. What Silvio Berlusconi is proposing is a bank controlled more or less by the people and for the people of the world. A fair system for all.

I guess it is a case of having to pick your poison. If you just let it all fail and come crashing down then the Tax Payer who didn't live beyond their means, didn't get into debt and managed their money could very well lose the job that allowed them to do that. So the question many people are facing is would you rather your tax dollars go to bail these asshats out and you get to keep working and create a living for yourself or would you rather risk, due to no fault of your own, losing everything you have worked hard for?

we cant fix our own problem in the porn industry because of idiots.

why do you think they know what they are doing..

I don't think people don't care it is just overwhelming for many people and a lot of people see it for what it really is. The options facing everyone are either shitty, or shitty with nuts in it. Most people feel helpless in this and that is because....well....they are.

What could people do? We could vote out everyone in office and replace them with other people. Many of the replacements would do the same thing as those that are in office are doing. We could put in only independent candidates and people like Ron Paul. These people would most likely let these companies fail and let the free market handle it which is to say they would let the economy collapse on itself and rebuild itself from the rubble. That might seem like a decent idea, but if you are the average American family are you willing to risk losing your house, cars, job and retirement for that? Most are not.

Blaming the common folks for this mess is a deflection tactic.

And the corrupt, rich folks know this; love it when common folks blame other common folks for a mess they didn't create let alone even truly understand.

The poster (onwebcam) who posted the link regarding CDOs is spot on - that alone is the cause of much of this economic disaster.

Ron

I can't lie..
While sitting in rush hour traffic today, I finally saw a positive to all this.

A slimming of the population would sure make the drive to work easier

It's not the worst plan to buy into assets at distressed prices, re-privatise at a profit for the tax payer at a later date. It's all really about transparency and what they're actually doing though, it isn't all partial government ownership unfortunately.. all depends on the collateral.

There is no collateral. Unless you want to include you house in it. The were waging bets against each other failing. They all lost. There's an estimated hundreds of trillions of this stuff out there. And we are expected to foot the bill while these guys roll around in black limousines and body guards.

It's nuts....

7.7 trillion is enough to hire 20 million people at $77,000 yearly salary cost for 5 years. You'd think that would have much more of an effect than paying off banks.

lesson = be a guy in a black limousine.

Lots of opportunities for the wise and brave.

If you have to walk around with a bodyguard I don't consider you brave. And wise is very much in question as far as these folks are concerned.

All that money is printed up and has to go somewhere. Expect INFLATION to pop up again.

Well they're getting paid aren't they? By your own admission it's not as though they're unwise if you're complaining about how they've rigged the system. Can't have it both ways.

I dunno, I tend to think time spent complaining is time not being spent working out how to benefit from the situation.

bleh couldn't be bothered.

Because I understand the ramifications of what has happened here it doesn't really matter what I do to prepare for it other than explain to others what is going on so when the time comes it can be dealt with. You see it doesn't matter how much money you have if you're paying $10 for a loaf of bread. Eventually all of your money is going to be gone.

My roots trace back to the original inhabitants of this land. My Great Grand mother was full blooded Cherokee Indian. She past away in my early teens at the age of 103. I've actually been written about in a book called "Message in the Wind." by Alethea A. Adams-Wells and since my meeting with her it has forever changed my perspective in life.

I'll tell you the story I guess since I do almost everyone I meet. Aleechawa (her Cherokee name) had a disability where she could barely walk as a child. Her parents and grandparents would tell her the stories as a kid about our history. They told her she would likely never be able to walk normally but she was determined. You know what her motivation was? To walk the "Trail of tears."

She worked for many years with her disability to eventually get there. She was probably in her mid thirties when I met her along her journey of the Trail of Tears. She was actually walking them if you haven't gathered that. She stopped in town and went into a number of the nicest hotels in town dressed in her Indian attire, dirty and smelly from her journey. All of them turned her down because of this. Eventually she came to our hotel which was the same one the President stays at when he's in town so it's a nice place mind you. They accepted her.

After going up to her room and cleaning up she comes down to the restaurant where I worked at the time. The manager and also my roommate was the manager and was working the door so he was as courteous as can be but she was still in her Indian attire. I always worked a certain section in the back of the restaurant so I had no idea what was going on at the time but the servers in the front didnt want to wait on her thinking she would be a cheap customer. He came to me and I said send her along. (I had not seen her) just knew it was a one person table.

He sits her down and I walk over and ask her if I can get her anything to drink. She asked me what my favorite wine was and I responded with the usual "What range do you want to be in?" with the assumption she wanted a glass. Long story short she ended up with a $150 bottle of wine to start. Had a 5 course meal. All during the time, since by then she was my only table, we had a long conversation about various things in Nashville etc. We even talked about my Great Grand mother etc. When it came time for her to go she said John I have something to tell you.

More or less gave me the story I'm telling you now. Her whole book is about how there's not much changed in this country. People still look at a person for what they see on the outside. Little did all of those places and servers know that turned her down know that she owned her own publishing company in that Indian garb. She told me that so far I was the only one who treated her like a person rather than some Indian woman since she had been on her journey so far. She informed me I would be in her book and asked if it was ok, paid her $250 tab with a $100 tip with her Gold card and left an impression on me for the rest of my life.

I'm giving you the new "Message in the wind" my friend. I'll be damned if I'm going to let some punks in suits shit on this country and run.

more t-bills for china....already the largest holder of us debt....

now if china threatens usa with the debts, it will have huge negative downturn for us dollar....and war shortly after...because at this point, US dollar will be just the value of paper, oil pegged at greeback will be worth nothing? dont think so, war is the answer.

And just to give you an idea of what kind of woman she is and our rights as Americans at the same time


Aleechawa Wells acquitted

Reminded that Americans have always had the right to defend themselves and their homes, a Fleming County jury found a woman accused of shooting at sheriff’s deputies not guilty of all five wanton endangerment charges.

http://fleminggazette.blogspot.com/2...-acquited.html

Well you obviously don't know shit. The indian story is incredibly irrelevant as are your roots. There are plenty of things you can do and plenty of ways to prepare. There are plenty of sectors and commodities that will do well even if things get as bad as you think they will (they won't) If you're honestly saying there is nothing you can do to prepare except for watching a few doomer videos on youtube and go on about it on forums then you probably deserve every bit of financial pain you may or may not be in at some point in the future. You're already damned if you think giving people "messages in the wind" on a porn forum is stopping punks in suits doing anything at all in the slightest. All you're doing is allowing them to further enrich themselves because while you're sitting here complaining they're scouring the market for the best oil & oil services (for eg) stocks to be in for the next 10 years... go study aquaculture or something if you're that worried.. A deep recession and even a depression can be an opportunity if you've done enough research, have a little capital and are clever or lucky enough. There are always areas of growth even if the whole system is dying overall.

Please don't blame those guys for getting us into this mess and no worries they will be the right ones to get us out of it. They are all sitting in the Bahamas of other tax havens just waiting for the money to arrive so they can get us out of this mess.

That was me being sarcastic.

About a month ago I started a thread about the "Free Market" it was widely slammed by people who said the free market is the best way. Well it is for those at the top, for the rest of us we are paying for it now. I was advocating a communist type state, I was saying the people at the top have to be properly controlled.

We had a "Live now Pay Later." mentality. Today is later and now we pay.

Getting out of this mess will be hard and pumping billions into organisations who will make sure they are all right before the situation is resolved. The trickle down mentality of the last couple of decades clearly does not work. Because it did not trickle down. But when the leaders are the people who are at the top they love the trickle down, because it starts with them.

Maybe the trickle up theory might work better.

Because you will spend it on goods that are made abroad and make the situation worse.

Give a million poor people $10 and they spend it locally. Give it to the Government and they build roads, schools, police and everything else that keeps the country functioning. They even built the Internet.

Give 10 people a million and they spend it home and abroad.

The real reason for this crisis is not the housing market or the financial market, they were the fuse that lit the bomb. The real reason is for 40 years we conned ourselves into thinking we could ship jobs to places where workers earn $2 a day and sell their bosses "services". It did not work, we built shops and bought cheap coffee makers and TVs in the malls.

And now crying because we don't have enough money.

There is a balance and people have to have the encouragement to work and produce profit and jobs. But rich people keeping it is part of the problem that got us into this mess. They thought it was cheaper to take a Job from the US and dump it into China and keep the extra profit.

It's not about the money for me. At least me being with our without. That was the point of my story. It's about people. You never know who you're talking to. You shouldn't judge people by their looks. You shouldn't judge people by their beliefs. You shouldn't be a fucking crook and nobody is above the law. We shouldn't be fighting unnecessary wars.

Sure I could go and stock up on several years worth of food. Sure I could put a bunch of money in gold silver etc. But why should I have to do that? I didn't do anything wrong. I'm just your average guy trying to get by just like everyone else. And just like anyone else when someone fucks with my lively hood I'm going to get pissed. If you can't look around and see that things are fucked up then you have your blinders on. If you cant see that pumping shit loads of money into a system where prices are already high will make them go higher then you have your blinders on. They have been cheating us as a whole our whole lives. Now that people are beginning to figure out whats going on they are jacking up things even more.

If they can't answer a simple question of where all this money is going then there is something very wrong with that. And if our government can't grow the balls to make them answer those questions then we as a people are obligated do it ourselves.

With the Chinese and Arabs owning so much f the West and holding the debts do you think they will give us the freedom to fix this problem? We need to buy less from them and sell them more from us. Don't see them allowing that.

When I grow up, I want to own my own Fed. Fuck the simpletons, I just want the power to print my own money, buy banks and any other assets with funds created out of thin air and if anything hits the fan, the morons paying taxes will foot the bill while I spend my vacations in sunny places, sipping margaritas.

Why should you have to do that? It's not a matter of anyone forcing you to. It's a matter of taking responsibility for the situation you find yourself in and try to ensure you have don't have to worry about being pissed at people "fucking with your livelyhood". I personally wouldn't be stocking up on a year's worth of food or buying gold and silver, but that kind of thing fits in with your doomer beliefs so by not doing it you're really just showing you want to have a cry about things without actually having to do anything about it. It seems it's not even that you don't believe you can, as you stated.. you just don't want to.. A bit pointless really.
Not judging people by their looks has sweet fuck all to do with anything in this thread. Not to be a presumptious douche is a parable for another topic. Also yes, you most certainly can judge a person for their beliefs. Looks you are born with. To a certain extent judging people by it can be an efficient use of time, and in most cases will be, but beliefs is a whole different kettle of fish. You choose what you believe. What you believe has a tendency to define many other aspects of your character.. Depends on the belief I suppose.

I don't feel that "they" have been cheating us as a whole. I feel that there is a wealth of information and opportunities out there if you are anything other than a herd member. Whilst I feel empathy for individual members, much like the collective IQ of a group diminishes, so does my empathy for the whole. If you weren't silly with your finances and have an eye for an opportunity you shouldn't have too much to worry about. It's a great learning experience for everybody. In much the same way I've done some silly things that I've got no one to blame for but myself, I can't absolve "us" the public as a whole from wrongdoing either. Guys in suits made a whole lot of money.. but so did housewives and janitors.. a lot of very ordinary average people made a lot of money, whether they got greedy and got to keep it is another matter. We also wouldn't be in this mess if the "average guy" saved some money instead of putting it on credit... made do with just one car. maybe even.. shock... a second hand one.. etc. There is enough blame to go around. If you did the right thing and saved, didn't get into debt etc.. you shouldn't have so much to fear.. If you think you *know* there is going to be a hyperinflationary environ and you believe the printed money isn't going to be soaked up by oil producers etc take a loan out to buy gold, that'll test the faith of your beliefs. I you can't do this kind of thing then you've got no place criticizing the people making decisions about how to solve the crisis.

I don't know how we can complain about the state of the education systems, the ignorance of the average person on the street about pretty much anything you care to mention and people's personal finances and home budgetting ability and then have a leg to stand on when it comes to "we the people" criticizing those trying to solve the problems.

That said, I did say that it should be transparent.

I can't find any good coke that was grown in the U.S.A.

as someone who never had any debt and doesn't plan to get any I'm not sure I'm entirely happy about this

why should my tax money go to bail out banks because of people who have mortgage/car/credit card debt they can't afford?

the banks need to stop lending to people who can't pay them back

Wow, that's just amazing...

bhutocracy is right and is making the most sense here.

you work within the system you have. you play the cards that are dealt you.

yes, there are things to be disgusted with in the system. But, you have either been smart and been liquid and not leveraged or you were greedy and bit off more than you could chew, or you don't have two nickels to rub together and it doesn't matter.

these type of events are a once in a life-time occurrence. there are clearly opportunities out there for those that maintained the liquidity and are smart enough to do the work and put the money to work at the right time and in the right places.

You never bought a house? Or an expensive car? No American Express card? Either you are filthy rich with cash, or you're hurting financially.

Silvio Berlusconi is a huge crook and everything he backs should be rejected violently. He owns the best football team in the world though.

this thread is this post is

I hope you're not serious. I know how you feel, though.

A flat tax would be helpful nowadays.

How are you going to keep banks (and now many other industries) from asking for bailouts though?

=====

I agree...

I don't live beyond my means.
For example I'd rather buy a small house for cash than get a huge mortgage on a McMansion.

The truth about flash cars is most people are scared of breaking them because of payments!
I take my ragged ass paid for honda to the track and drive past shiny M5's z06's, R8's!

the only CC I have is Secured because if you never used credit you can't get credit! So I'm trying to build credit to maybe get a mortgage (I can afford) sometime.
It looks like thats been screwed up by all the people buying houses they can't afford eh

not so much the arabs, but china is a bigger problem, they are the new rising superpower, and USA is in a bad strategic position to be unloading so much debt on to the chinese. this is just one of the problems, imagine if USA needs to do some key military operations in Asia, and without second notice, china will threaten to dump all of the t-bills, causing immense pressure and panic on the us dollar....and hell breaks lose

another problem is that when they are issuing debt, the federal reserve is print more and more money, this means alarming rate of increasing inflation rate, which is an invisible tax imposed on the American citizens, and the rest of the world ultimately.