Ibill- VISA Registration - Corporate Director As Principle?

[Shark]

As advised by my Ibill rep, I filled in the VISA online form with my Australian info and will change it before Nov.15.

I am setting up a European company at the moment and my accountant has advised me to use my Australian Company as the corporate director for my European Company.

I rang Ibill to see what I should put in the fields under the principles details in this situation.

My rep didn't seem to understand that its possible to have a corporate director and went back and forth in instructions from telling me to put my Australian Company Details in there as the principle, (I wasn't sure on this, as it requires a first and last name be filled in) to putting my own details in there (Even though I am not the principle of the European company, I am the principle of the Australian company directing the European company), to putting my personal name and the registered address of the European Company in there.

She then said "the principles address must be in the same region as the company"

so I said, everyone setting up a business overseas because of the visa problem must be in the same boat, if they put down their real address they will not comply with VISA and if they put down the formation companies registered address they will be lying on the form and if VISA does a check on who runs the EU company it will all be exposed.

Going back through some of the posts by the other billing companies here, it appears that they are requiring you to either have a U.S. based business OR Principle.

There has been talk about using a third party director's details on the form also, but I cannot see this as being very safe as its possible that a large number of webmasters may all be submitting the same guys name to VISA.

Has anybody else set up a company in another VISA region to comply with the regs using a corporate director ?

If so what did you put in the principle's section of the form ?

I have a hard time understanding that VISA would have a problem with companies using corporate directors across international borders, I cant see how its any of their business as to how you run your company as long as the company handling the billing is based in the same region as the acquiring bank....

[Petr]

Shark, our US lawyer told us that "VISA has stated that the company AND its principals must be located in the jurisdiction of processing. "

[WendyB]

I ain't a lawyer and this ain't legal advise. The corporate director is a person who generally is appointed by the other corporate directors. The position is most often addressed within the articles of incorporation. Depending on the bylaws and laws within the jurisdiction the corporation occurred, a corporate director may or may not have to be a shareholder. The same may or may not apply to corporate officers.

IBill is looking for this persons full name who has the position of director. there may be several directors, however they are only asking for the name of one.

[Pornwolf]

Originally posted by Petr
Shark, our US lawyer told us that "VISA has stated that the company AND its principals must be located in the jurisdiction of processing. "

I could use a lawyer named 'Shark!'

[Shark]

Petr > I hear what your saying but it goes against what the billing companies are telling us to do..
If your lawyer is correct then there will be a lot of people in trouble.


WendyB> Thanks, youve given me something to think about there


Has anyone else found themselves in this position ?

[WendyB]

Shark,
I have some additional information that will help you and others. To comply, you need a legitimate business location here in the USA. Additionally you will need to have at least one corporate officer /director who is a US Citizen.

Typically, here are the ingredients of what is considered a valid US presence includes:

US Corporation
American corporation officers
Resident Agent
Verifiable US business address
Business license issued within the local jurisdiction
US bank account
Telephone service in corporations name at the corporations business address.

The reason I can speak with some knowledge on this subject is my familiarity with the corporate regulations within the state of Nevada. Here in the US, the states of Nevada and Delaware are considered the top corporate havens for corporate business. Nevada is my choice because of the zero corporate income tax, shareholders are not a matter of public record.

Remember in Nevada, it is the shareholders who are the actual corporation owners, and in Nevada you can hire others to occupy the various corporate officer positions ON A CONTRACT BASIS.

The gentleman I suggest you make contact with is André Rogers whose firm specializes in providing all of the above corporate creation and presence services in one simple package. I am a U.S. citizen, however you raised a valid question, regarding the options available to international webmasters effected by the new rule.

I spoke in great detail just minutes ago, in great detail and he confirmed that since VISA caught everybody off guard, he has put together about 70 of these packages so far. It dosen't matter the size of the corporation, big or small...the law is very clear on the minimum requirements.
I don't want to put their firm name here in an adult BBS, because they are a firm that has a long solid reputation in the mainstream corporate community.

Please send me a short email [email protected] and I will be glad to send you Andre's complete contact information, and how he has helped me.


The reason that both US and Foreign adult (business) corporation is the ability to own, yet remain anonymous. BTW, this is the same firm many out of state lawyers have prepare corporate packages for, and those same will charge you twice as much for just pushing.

I hope this helps.

Wendy

[Kimmykim]

If you have problems with IBill I will be glad to ask a few people there I know well to help you out. You can email me if you need -- [email protected]

[Shark]

Thanks Wendy,

As I mentioned above, I went with the European option.

Since I posted this thread Ive been advised by someone else at Ibill, (who I should add was a lot more helpful and on the ball than my rep) that its believed that at this stage they will only be looking at the fact that you are a European company. (If the client did not sign up as a US client.)

As for the principles details, he said that VISA just want to know who the person is behind the whole operation, so that clears that up somewhat . (Bearing in mind the form did not ask for anything that can positively identify this individual as the US option did)

Its only VISA US thats requiring all the info at this stage, which gives us non-US webmasters a chance to see whats ahead before we get to it..

[WendyB]

my suggestion is be prepared. Several years ago, I lost a merchant account because my business wasn't listed in directory assistance. (phone number). What today may appear to be a loophole, allowing you to avoid registering site owner info.

Remember the whole purpose behind Visa's mandate is to prevent rising fraud.

I also use iBill, and because of my business structure, am not personally listed.

[Shark]

Originally posted by Kimmykim
If you have problems with IBill I will be glad to ask a few people there I know well to help you out. You can email me if you need -- [email protected]

Thanks for the kind offer KimmyKim, I might take you up on that yet

[Shark]

Originally posted by WendyB
my suggestion is be prepared. Several years ago, I lost a merchant account because my business wasn't listed in directory assistance. (phone number). What today may appear to be a loophole, allowing you to avoid registering site owner info.

Remember the whole purpose behind Visa's mandate is to prevent rising fraud.

I also use iBill, and because of my business structure, am not personally listed.

Thanks Wendy,

I dont see it as a loophole, I am willing to put my info in there, but they cannot tell me exactly what info they want me to put in there.

How did you list your company as the principle ?
Did you jam the company name in the first and last name boxes ?

[EscortBiz]

They want the name of the person so when the arressts start they dont have to look much thats all they want face it

[Shark]

Originally posted by EscortBiz
They want the name of the person so when the arressts start they dont have to look much thats all they want face it

Thats the stupid thing, even though its only VISA US that want all the info at this stage
Ibill is making all clients fill out the same form (minus the ssn or other tracking number) even if your not registering as a US client ...

[WendyB]

Shark email me [email protected] or catch me on ICQ 174216564

[EscortBiz]

I can see whats coming

[Incognito]

Hm...

I registered my USA company with a USA tax id and office adress but myself in RUSSIA as a principal.

You see - from what I gathered this is the most LEGAL way.

Principal legal definition says - the main person in business.
Not more - not less.

However, whatever VISA wants, there is law, USA law for instance.
If a person legally can open and operate a company in USA, pay taxes and stuff , which is possible and more over quite natural - I dont see why VISA can and will ask for more? This IS a US presence.

Any corporation is liable enough itself by law for it's actions.
If my company fucks up something with VISA it doesnt matter as far as I see where I am. My company is legally the responcible one anyway and since it has bank acc. and stuff it is possible to prosecute it.

If You list however a corporate CEO as a principal I think there can be a problem.

You see, a corporate CEO as far as I know is a matter of Your inside papers only. Therefore if VISA checks for names associated in information networks and data bases with Your company they will see names of shareholders , registering agent and so on - but they wont see Your CEO name there.

My Russian name and passport details were enough for USA IRS service to issue me a TaxID (EIN), bank to open me a bank account - why shouldnt it satisfy VISA?

You know I am not sure I am right and would be happy to hear more comments on it. I just look on it in the following way - protecting Yourself is good , overprotecting can harm.

[Incognito]

besides , if VISA USA tells You to "fuck off" - You're loosing quite a lot of money right?
On rebills and signups.

Now if that is so because Your company or business is not located in USA and LEGALLY You cant work then with a USA billing company - You cant say a shit.
Because to earn this money as we all understand right now You're in fact breaking the law.

However if You are allowed to work in USA, i.e. You got a company there with a TaxID wich is enough, and You're told "fuck off" - there should be a legal reason behind this because You're not breaking a shit, otherwise it's a discrimination which leads to a significant money damage and I beleive could be simply illegal.

[Shoplifter]

Originally posted by Incognito

If a person legally can open and operate a company in USA, pay taxes and stuff , which is possible and more over quite natural - I dont see why VISA can and will ask for more? This IS a US presence.

It's not really because if you are not in the USA they can't bring you before a US court. They want someone to be liable if something goes wrong.

[WendyB]

You see, a corporate CEO as far as I know is a matter of Your inside papers only. Therefore if VISA checks for names associated in information networks and data bases with Your company they will see names of shareholders , registering agent and so on - but they wont see Your CEO name there.

You might want to double check your facts. In the state of Nevada, which has a reputation as a corporate friendly state...
It is not required to disclose the corporation's shareholders.

Shareholders are the actual owners of the corporation.

Corporations in the state of nevada are required to file what is called the ANNUAL LIST OF OFFICERS. This document becomes part of public record. It lists the President, Secretary, Treasurer, and at least one Director. The corporation shall maintain a resident agent within the state of Nevada.

Having a corporation, in the USA is fairly simple, however being able to prove a physical presence in the USA requires bringing to stage several elements.

Your USA bank account is positive, however you may be shooting yourself in the foot for future USA business presence requirements, which I believe all of us will agree are coming.
Many of us with merchant accounts have received those fraud alert announcements from our processor, advising extra caution when doing transactions with Eastern Europe and Asia.

How could you possibly think they will continue to embrace foriegn located high risk website operators, even when running under a third party processor.

Also, the law may seem a little twisted. You as a foreign national may own a business here in the USA, however you may not be employed (perform work for salary) by the corporation, unless you have been granted the right to work. I am sure there are many who will take advantage of this new policy, to really get their business presence/structure together. Some will even use their US business presence as a vehicle to obtain a business Investor Visa, which is semi complicated, but requires a "signifigant business in the USA".

[black torana]

from what i understand you just need to use a processor that is not us based and then you dont have to give visa shit as it is only a USA visa issue at the moment
http://www.verysign.com.au has the facilitys to work for people in aus
there are a few around just need to look
cheers robbie
visa

[Bear]

Hi Shark,

Please icq me at 167577753

I am setting a company in Europe too. May be we can exchange some useful info. Thanks.

[Shark]

Originally posted by black torana
from what i understand you just need to use a processor that is not us based and then you dont have to give visa shit as it is only a USA visa issue at the moment
http://www.verysign.com.au has the facilitys to work for people in aus
there are a few around just need to look
cheers robbie
visa

Hi Black Torana,

Never heard of that site before, the name looks like a take off of another well known company and the site is down right now,

Do they do adult and have an affiliate program, I wasnt aware of any Australian adult type 3rd party Billing companies in existance ?
If they do, it might be worth noting if all this goes pear shaped later on.

But right now Ibill has myself and others over a barrell with our rebills, If I could afford to walk away from the Ibill rebills and get back on my feet quickly again I would have done so, believe me.

[Shark]

Originally posted by Incognito
besides , if VISA USA tells You to "fuck off" - You're loosing quite a lot of money right?
On rebills and signups.

Now if that is so because Your company or business is not located in USA and LEGALLY You cant work then with a USA billing company - You cant say a shit.
Because to earn this money as we all understand right now You're in fact breaking the law.

However if You are allowed to work in USA, i.e. You got a company there with a TaxID wich is enough, and You're told "fuck off" - there should be a legal reason behind this because You're not breaking a shit, otherwise it's a discrimination which leads to a significant money damage and I beleive could be simply illegal.

I'm not registering with VISA US, Ibill will be registering my info with VISA International when that time comes.

For reasons apparently only known to those at Ibill, we are still required to fill in information that has not yet been requested by VISA International... It has been requested by VISA US and I am not US based and will not be basing my business in the US.

I believe from conversations with multiple people at Ibill that VISA International will only be looking to see that you are European company or individual if you are dealing with a European based billing company... We all know that at this stage the solely European based processors are not asking for any stuff yet..

I still dont think its any of VISA's business where you pay your taxes or have your bank account.

I can understand that they want to have you use an aquiring bank in the same region as your processor and business.
I think that they are looking after their member banks interests whilst providing a layer of consumer protection by doing this and I dont have a problem with this.

I do have a problem with thoughts that VISA may be interested in where and who a company's directors are if they are not on the TMF.
If my Australian company runs a company in Europe that deals with a European processor using a European aquiring bank and the European company is governed by European laws, then wheres the problem with that ?

Companies are accountable just as individuals are, and infact are more so in many instances.

[WendyB]

It is amazing that anyone could believe "they (visa) mean everybody except me".

I am wondering how these folks who are using the third party processors or ISPP's as visa now refers to them, and comply with the "registration" ..... registering a foreign / non US presence.

How are they going to explain away their downtown moscow location, if Visa tightens the requirements more in 60 or 90 days?

As US based "merchants" we all have received
I dare someone to tell me the VISA folks won't tighten their principle site operator reqirements for HIGH RISK sites more.... in the near future.

[Kimmykim]

You know, Visa is NOT out to get all the porn peddlers... I have talked to the owners of two of the so-called big three processors and the consensus is the same from both of them -- Visa is looking for a few people they want out of the business, people they have been trying to get rid of for awhile. If they find them, things will be pretty normal, if they don't get them then Visa will probably institute some other rulings to try and accomplish their goal.

If you are not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to worry about.

[Bear]

Hi Shark, could you icq me again? Thanks.

[Incognito]

Originally posted by Shoplifter


It's not really because if you are not in the USA they can't bring you before a US court. They want someone to be liable if something goes wrong.

In case Your biz is run by a corporation , for most cases , You cant be taken to the court anyway. The corporation itself is liable. That's the whole point.

I have an LLC which is enlisted to be taxed as a corporation with IRS. Dont know if it's good enough.

[WendyB]

Originally posted by Incognito



I have an LLC which is enlisted to be taxed as a corporation with IRS. Dont know if it's good enough.

Incognito,
your efforts sound like a step in the right direction, however here in America there are other conditions/elements that are expected to be in place, demonstrating a active business location. It is important to be prepared, and read the writing on the wall.

I have written previously on some of the elements, however will repeat for those who might be gathering a check list of things to do, if you were considering taking advantage of Nevada's favorable corporate laws:

In this arena you may set-up fresh corporation, or if you have the resources acquire a clean "AGED" corporation. These are corporations who have been officially registered for several years, filed tax returns, have bank account, in the phone book.... however they have done $0 (zero) business. As you can imagine the advantages of overnight purchasing a "corporation" that has been in business for 3 , 5 or 7 years.

Incorporate
Misc Trade name filing w/ state
Business License
Arrange Contract Corporate Officers (US citizens who only act as proxies, for documents, registrations)
Business telephone listing
Telephone service at business location (answered by human in your company name)
business bank account (Nevada)
Place of Business (having your business listed on a lobby directory)
D&B Number for business
EIN TAX ID for Nevada Location.

Hope that helps. If you have any questions how mine got set up, please email me.

WB

[WendyB]

STEVE CHECK YOUR MAIL.
I just sent you the name of the law firm and their phone number in las vegas that set up my corporation. If you need anything else, just ICQ or email me. I will be on late tonight. [email protected]

[WendyB]

Just noticed on another thread, iBill may be not charge the $750 previously announced.

I personally have not received their email on this matter.

I will keep checking my mail.

P.S. Those SOBs better send my money back...