Has anyone EVER made money on a prepaid traffic deal? - GoFuckYourself.com

pentae · 11-06-2002, 06:40 PM

I dont think anyone ever has. Everyone selling their traffic and asking for the money up front usually has absolutely horrid conversions they dont want you to know about, and can make more money selling it than sending it to ARS like everybody else.

I'm really sick of getting email spammed from webmasters saying "I will sell you a spot on my TGP for $3,000 a month, its a bargain!"

And the thing is, they do it because theres people out there who take the gamble. Convincing them to put up your link on a pay-per-signup deal is hopeless, and the dodgy car-salesman like webmaster always has excuses. Usually something like "I dont know if i'll get paid!" ..

And when you tell them that anyone asking prepaid amounts of traffic is a scammer, my all time favourite comeback was "Sex.com do it!"

So, lets hear everyone elses experiences with prepaid traffic deals!

this ought to be a laugh..

WiredGuy · 11-06-2002, 07:18 PM

I've sold on a prepaid basis. I usually request it unless the company I deal with has a good reputation. Once I know their reputation is good I work on weekly/bi-weekly. Otherwise I don't need to get burnt with the quality of my traffic so why risk it.

WG

Alky · 11-06-2002, 07:21 PM

but the point is, if your traffic is THAT good, why aren't you keeping it for yourself and making coin from it?

WiredGuy · 11-06-2002, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alky
but the point is, if your traffic is THAT good, why aren't you keeping it for yourself and making coin from it?

Because my company deals with SE traffic only. I am not a pornographer. I don't have the time/resources to setup 50+ sites and start a porn company. So, I sell off the traffic to my clients. Maybe one day I'll start some porn sites but it's just not in the equation for me at this point in my life.

WG

ColKurtz · 11-06-2002, 07:26 PM

I think he means, why not just join a program like ARS or whatever, and send it to them if it is good traffic that converts.

bawdy · 11-06-2002, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pentae
I'm really sick of getting email spammed from webmasters saying "I will sell you a spot on my TGP for $3,000 a month, its a bargain!"

Think ive had it with buying gallery spots thats for sure.... shit if u going to pay that sort of coin for a spot why not hire a couple lackys to sit and submit your galleries for you

WiredGuy · 11-06-2002, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ColKurtz
I think he means, why not just join a program like ARS or whatever, and send it to them if it is good traffic that converts.

Well, let's not start on ARS, I have let's say a difference of opinion with that sponsor. And I do work on a per signup basis, I just don't work with the normal $35/signup, I am very demanding as a webmaster but those who work with me can say that it's well worth it to accomodate my requests.

WG

gothweb · 11-06-2002, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ColKurtz
I think he means, why not just join a program like ARS or whatever, and send it to them if it is good traffic that converts.

It isn't really unusual to try to get as much as possible out of your resources. People are going for more profit. However, I think there is something for potential traffic buyers to learn here... If they can't make any sponsor they can find pay-out better than the amount they sell the traffic for, why should you think you can send it somewhere that will make a profit out of it? My advice-- don't buy traffic.

bawdy · 11-06-2002, 08:00 PM

also imo the reasons to be selling traffic is to improve cash flow and diversify income streams so you dont rely upon a sponsor(s) to pay u out at the end of a month

if traffic sales is going to survive long term they have to leave a decent amount of value to traffic to the those who purchase traffic

pentae · 11-06-2002, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bawdy
also imo the reasons to be selling traffic is to improve cash flow and diversify income streams so you dont rely upon a sponsor(s) to pay u out at the end of a month

if traffic sales is going to survive long term they have to leave a decent amount of value to traffic to the those who purchase traffic

Lets face it, sponsors HAVE to pay these days or they are out of business. If you are concerned about that, use one of the top 10 guys.. you can set your watch to it. THIS IS NOT A VALID ARGUMENT.

pentae · 11-06-2002, 08:32 PM

sorry bawdy I got a bit enthusiastic with the shift key. Hey whereabouts in brizzy are you? what sites do you run?

ICQ me!

SpeakEasy · 11-06-2002, 08:32 PM

This topic has so many different sides, and views, it could be debated forever. But I'll add a few of my opinions.

First of all Gothweb you say "My advice-- don't buy traffic.", arent you the same person that was selling everything you had and closing up shop a few weeks ago because of a 750.00 visa fee??...

, well maybe you should NOT listen to your own advice??...

OK there are a few good reasons to buy traffic, for example, some of you spend countless hours building galleries and submitting them to tgp's just to feed some used cj and tgp traffic to your own tgp, or avs, or freesite etc.... Well look at all the time and money (content, bandwidth etc...) you have wasted just to end up with some garbage traffic. Well you could have just bought some traffic for the same amount of money (or less) and MUCH less wasted time, and fed your sites more traffic in a faster time period then the few measily hits you will get from some feeder galleries.

You could buy 1 million hits cheap and have it delivered in a few days, or you could spend months trying to get 1 million hits from galleries, avs, etc... ..So are you catching on to some of the reasons to buy traffic yet??.....

OK heres another reason, once you develop a good working relationship between the buyer and the seller, then you are pretty safe that you will get what the deal is supossed to be, and not waste time getting a gallery listed on some cj site full of cheating cp, animal, crap asian, russian, etc... worthless traffic. Also for the seller, it makes sense because they don't have to keep on top of sponsors that shave, cheat, dont pay etc....
It's a win win situation.

So as you can see there are many reasons to buying and selling traffic. The concept has been around since the beginning of adult internet, and it will always remain. Hun, SleazyDream, al4a Lightning Free, Platinum bucks..etc.... They all sell traffic, and or ad space.... There must be a reason??...

OK this was just some food for thought, heck what do I know...LMAO

SleazyDream · 11-06-2002, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alky
but the point is, if your traffic is THAT good, why aren't you keeping it for yourself and making coin from it?

I sell gallery and banner spots pre-paid ONLY. I've been scammed too many times to do anything else.
My traffic is good and people make money from them. if I sell galleries it's good for me cause I get more variety on my site which brings more traffic and if i don't sell galleries I put my own stuff and make a little more but I end up with less traffic due to less variety so it almost balences out either way.

gothweb · 11-06-2002, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SpeakEasy
First of all Gothweb you say "My advice-- don't buy traffic.", arent you the same person that was selling everything you had and closing up shop a few weeks ago because of a 750.00 visa fee??... , well maybe you should NOT listen to your own advice??...

I just checked my finances, and I don't seem to be out of business. Perhaps you mistook what was going on with me when I posted about Visa. Sure sounds that way.

SleazyDream · 11-06-2002, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb

I just checked my finances, and I don't seem to be out of business. Perhaps you mistook what was going on with me when I posted about Visa. Sure sounds that way.

i was sure you said that you were going out of business too due to the $750 fee.... makes me think someone gave you some financial help with visa................

lil2rich4u2 · 11-06-2002, 10:11 PM

SpeakEasy, id be interested in hearing a few trustworthy places to buy traffic at a steal BESIDES sex.com ... seems thats al i hear on this forum, lol

Richie,
www.PleasureDVDs.com

Pornkings · 11-06-2002, 10:17 PM

every prepaid deal I have done with brokers and its been many has turned out bad.

Most of the time if you do a test they send the good traffic when you bump it up they start sending forced exit or shit traffic mixed with it to get the hit counts.

People think there traffic is worth more than it is.
If the traffic is good they would make a killing on pay per trial programs.

I have never heard of a sponsor not pay for good traffic...

I'm going to start buying traffic again on tgp's on a flat rate deal.
and Search engine traffic per click. I'm working a sweet deal with Inktomi

I havn't done it for about a year so we will see what happens this time around.

gothweb · 11-06-2002, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SleazyDream

i was sure you said that you were going out of business too due to the $750 fee.... makes me think someone gave you some financial help with visa................

Maybe you were too busy eating your hat over your last mistake that you missed some of my posts. Needless to say, you are misinformed. I was never going out of business over this.

bawdy · 11-06-2002, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pentae

Lets face it, sponsors HAVE to pay these days or they are out of business. If you are concerned about that, use one of the top 10 guys.. you can set your watch to it. THIS IS NOT A VALID ARGUMENT.

yeah fair enough.... just there is a difference between cash in the hand and being a unsecured creditor to some (overseas) company. I never count any money until it is in the bank.... i learned that the hard way

spanky · 11-06-2002, 10:51 PM

Topic: Has anyone EVER made money on a prepaid traffic deal?

yes

Pornkings · 11-06-2002, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spanky
Topic: Has anyone EVER made money on a prepaid traffic deal?

yes

Yes up until a year ago then the traffic just got really bad.

But now our shit converts anything so I'm going to give it another go.

quiet · 11-06-2002, 10:55 PM

[The Leader] · 11-06-2002, 10:57 PM

I've made money from traffic I've prepaid for, and I'm sure a lot of other people have too. Of coarse other times the traffic has been pure shit.

I also sell my exit traffic off, because I've never been able to convert it myself. Other people can I guess.

SpeakEasy · 11-06-2002, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [The Leader]
I've made money from traffic I've prepaid for, and I'm sure a lot of other people have too. Of coarse other times the traffic has been pure shit.

I also sell my exit traffic off, because I've never been able to convert it myself. Other people can I guess.

Exactly... To sum up, ALL traffic has a value to it, if you have the right place for it. Those who know,... know, those who don't ...don't..

Mutt · 11-07-2002, 12:23 AM

i can think of only a few situations where buying traffic might work out. A person like WiredGuy. There are other people like him, search engine wizards, who have no interest in signing up and testing out programs .... much easier for these types of people to find a few good customers for their traffic and be done with it.

Same thing with domain tycoons.

But 98% of people brokering and selling traffic are con artists.
Somebody mentioned it............why would you sell traffic that you know you can make more money with filtering it and sending it on to sponsors?

And the old bait and switch traffic test is as old as the Adult Net.
They'll send you quality traffic for your 100 dollar test, then once they have a check for a couple thousand dollars or more .......... like shit through a goose watch that recycled circle jerk, 12 th blurred console in a chain traffic is let loose on you!

The smart con artists lets this bait and switch thing go on a lot longer, until you're totally suckered in that the guy is good. So you're still sending him big checks probaby 5 figures now and slowly the traffic gets worse and worse, you can string people along for a long time working this way.

Choker · 11-07-2002, 04:09 AM

Funny how people who have shit sites complain about buying traffic. It's real convenient to blame everyone but yourself for no sales when your site just simply sucks. Buying traffic is the future of this biz. Guys are tired of crappy sponsors screwing them. Smaller paysites with $14.95 to $24.95 monthly fees and NO AFFILIATE programs are the big growth right now. These guys can afford to buy all their traffic and still make a very good profit. They don't have time to worry about generating traffic, so it is easier for them to just buy it.
And just like Sleazy does, thousands of TGP's are selling spots like crazy now. Look at all the TGP's that are starting to charge to submit galleries. The days of free traffic for gallery makers will be over soon IMO. If you guys complaining about paid traffic even had a clue as to how much traffic is sold per day, you would spend your time learning how to convert it instead of whining about it.
Pornkings this reply is not aimed at you dude.

TheFLY · 11-07-2002, 04:44 AM

There are lots of good paysites out there that aren't over-saturated... so why should I send my traffic to big-XYZ program where I know I am being shaved and the program owner could give a fuck about me... when I can work w/ a unique site on a personal level with the owner, get a custom tour for my traffic, and get paid by Paypal instead of waiting for weeks for a check to arrive... Now you see a lot more webmasters buying/selling traffic through Paypal... there are just so many benefits and with better tracking software this will be even more popular.

50/50 Program

TheFLY · 11-07-2002, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt
And the old bait and switch traffic test is as old as the Adult Net.
They'll send you quality traffic for your 100 dollar test, then once they have a check for a couple thousand dollars or more .......... like shit through a goose watch that recycled circle jerk, 12 th blurred console in a chain traffic is let loose on you!

The smart con artists lets this bait and switch thing go on a lot longer, until you're totally suckered in that the guy is good. So you're still sending him big checks probaby 5 figures now and slowly the traffic gets worse and worse, you can string people along for a long time working this way. [/B]

That *COULD* be it, but an ad is usually the most profitable the first week that it's posted on a site... That's just a basic obervation I've made over the years... But most webmasters are too lazy to find and implement a great new sponsor ever week -- so that's the way people do biz -- filling out all those fucking forms, moving link codes, changing design/banners etc. etc...pain in the ass. That's why I know traffic brokering and automation and traffic marketplaces will take over... If I have a spot to sell I should be able to squeeze the most $ out of it -- and that's where a 3rd party needs to step in like a broker to do shit like filtering, metering, rotation, etc. while keeping payments flowing without too much busy work (like fucking w/ dozens of signup forms, tracking codes and archaic stats pages). There is such a need for this -- we are doing shit half-ass backwards now... this is why AdultCentro and brokers like Choker will be so popular... It's just the logical step forward using common sense to make more money.

TheFLY · 11-07-2002, 05:45 AM

Eventually we will all be buying/selling through a broker at real market prices -- calibrated in realtime.

The 50/50 and per/signup process is just fucked up for so many reasons... Look a sponsor only has to change their link codes and how many fucking pages will you have to edit? When Lensman did this with AdultPlatinum I thought it was hilarious -- mistake or not -- nobody said a fucking thing -- business as usual. Everyone on a 50/50 or per/signup is getting fucked like that on a daily basis and you don't even know it's happening because you are driving blind watching some fucking fabricated stats page like a trained chimp -- and what are you doing about it? Nothing. I say bullshit!!!!!!!!!! Use your fucking brain there are solutions. You should all be in line to support systems like AdultCentro and guys like Choker because they are going to save your ass from being raped -- 3 years from now sellers and buyers will be on an equal footing... it's only a matter of time and I shouldn't be the only one saying this in public... You're all too fucking scared of your sponsors -- you're fucking slaves. You can't do shit now because you have no leverage...

How many webmasters here would like to have a daily/hourly report of the success of each sponsor in the industry!?!!?!!! I mean fuck the future is like that... For example if at 4am Oxcash isn't converting or if at 6pm CCBill is fucked, or if at 9am a new hot program is launched that converts like mad FUCK! FUCK!, everyone on my team should have cgi all over that shit looking at the global market forces -- I shouldn't have to be home tooling alone all day on my computer -- i want my shit dynamically switching every ad spot that I have based on up-to-minute information/measurements to adapt in realtime!!!!!!!!!!!! It's going to happen!

NickB. · 11-07-2002, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WiredGuy

Well, let's not start on ARS, I have let's say a difference of opinion with that sponsor. And I do work on a per signup basis, I just don't work with the normal $35/signup, I am very demanding as a webmaster but those who work with me can say that it's well worth it to accomodate my requests.

WG

Why not dealing with a company on a partnership base?
If you know the companies' webites' have great retention,
100$ a sign up is easy made!!! ( recurring payout )

Choker · 11-07-2002, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Everyone on a 50/50 or per/signup is getting fucked like that on a daily basis and you don't even know it's happening because you are driving blind watching some fucking fabricated stats page like a trained chimp -- and what are you doing about it? Nothing. I say bullshit!!!!!!!!!! Use your fucking brain there are solutions

YEP, and we are supposed to take their word they are not shaving us? WTF, why can't we see the "REAL" stats. What other industry conducts business on such blind faith? NONE

clickpimp · 11-07-2002, 10:08 AM

wherever you get your traffic, one important thing to know and/or ask is the country of origin of your clicks. if you or your sponsor cannot convert 10,000 indian, pakastani, or turkish clicks, what good are they? even if they only cost $1. the only ones making money off this crap are the ones selling back to webmasters - not that all do however.

geo-ip is one good way traffic sellers are using to initially filter traffic. we get ~200,000 type-ins daily from every country you can imagine. http://www.sex.com/international/index.html we geo-ip and filter by browser language to try and help send only traffic from clicks you can convert if they were inclined to buy something.

although getting them to buy is a job squarely placed on the shoulders of the webmaster.

Sunshine McGillicutty · 11-07-2002, 11:01 AM

I've done ok with prepaid traffic on the Hun and Choker. The only time I've ever gotten screwed was when I bought from adbuytraffic.com without asking for opinions first.

KRL · 11-07-2002, 11:05 AM

You can make millions selling traffic. I know several that have done well doing nothing else but that.

FATPad · 11-07-2002, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pentae
Topic: Has anyone EVER made money on a prepaid traffic deal?

Yes.

But the people who are making shitloads from money it aren't on GFY telling you about it.

Mario2002 · 11-07-2002, 11:34 AM

Hey,
Matbe someone knows of someone or can help.
I'm looking for a person that has a good round basic base of graphics, php, & html willing to relocate to the south florida area and work in house.

Please email me [email protected]
if you know of anyone or may want to check it out foryouself

thanks for your time...
Keep on Rockin'

Mario2002 · 11-07-2002, 11:36 AM

BTW, SpeakEasy - very good points indeed :-)

clickpimp · 11-07-2002, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by [The Leader]

I also sell my exit traffic off, because I've never been able to convert it myself. Other people can I guess.

traffic brokers ...

howard · 11-07-2002, 11:54 AM

First of all there is many different quality levels of traffic and many type of delivery options. TGP's BLOW.

I sell double opt in email traffic and have some of the same clients for the past 5 years. They must make money.

There are plenty of people who's sites BLOW.

Many people have no idea how to market themselves. If your buying traffic it is up to you to make the most money out of it.
You can do so by having pop up's, using your exit traffic, selling
toys, selling dvd's and offering mainstream products such as cigarettes. It's up to you to give surfers the most choices from the traffic you purchase. Its not the job of the person selling you traffic to market your sites for you. It's all basically common sense.

It's real easy to blame the person who sells your traffic if you don't market yourself correctly.

And people who complain about pop ups--your morons. they can pay the bills. "I don't want to piss off my surfers"---fuck em. Your doing this to make money not make people happy.

And to everyone who says the traffic doesn't work if its quality traffic--IT'S YOUR FAULT. Learn how to market yourselves.

Everyone who ever complains I answer back "if this guy and this guy continue to buy and make money it's not my fault if you don't.
This ain't geometry--its simple math. Face it--maybe it's you.

I buy traffic too. There are a lot of liars out there. You get fucked.
it's part of the business were in. But if your buying quality and it don't work for you then change your marketing plan or get out of the biz.

And last of all, if you have quality traffic and your not prepaid for it then your ripping yourself off.

howard
[email protected]

MarcWomack · 11-07-2002, 01:58 PM

Wow, lively debate. Let me chime in on the side of a company that sells traffic. If you guys aren't familiar with our site, check out the traffic generating site of ConsumptionJunction.com . We're a strange breed of adult-shock-humor that's incredibly difficult to categorize. Our traffic doesn't come to CJ to jerk off, but the still convert really well on quality sites. We average 1/250 conversions (based on our numbers, not theirs) with TrafficCashGold, Topbucks, TrueCash, and PlatinumBucks.

We send about 50% of our traffic to the affiliate programs and I retail the other 50%. You've got to understand, we're a ridiculously high-traffic site. We serve around 4,000,000,000 ads month. Why not just send traffic to the affiliate programs? Wouldn't it be less work? We split our traffic for stability and variety for our fans. We've got a very high percentage of visitors that come to CJ daily. As many sites as these programs run, it's tough to get enough variety when we're dealing with this volume of ads. It's not the money-in-hand issue because all the programs pre-pay us for joins anyway. Also, it's always better to have diversity in your income streams. It also minimizes our risk. We know that with $40 to $45 payout and 1/250 conversion; we make $0.16 to $0.18 cents per click. We take all our ad placements, figure out how many clicks they did the month prior, multiply by $0.17 and that's how much we retail them for.

The key to our "retailing" of our traffic is that we don't gouge anyone. We charge what we could make off of it. If the customer's site is quality and converts in the 1/250 to 1/500 range, they'll make a profit because they keep the recurring revenue. Happy customers make repeat customers which is always more profitable for a business. Another key is that we turn sites away if we don't feel they'll convert. One great thing about this industry is that reputation still matters. If you screw someone, word will get out.

Others have mentioned that if you have quality traffic, why not build your own sites and profit from them. Great idea. We'll be launching our program (CJBucks) with 10 sites this month. But we've been in business for three and a half years. Why didn't we do this sooner? Initial investment and resources. We're a free site that does 200 mb/s in bandwidth. It takes money to start a program the right way (quality processing, quality sites, quality affiliate software).

Also, the ease of just sending the traffic off and getting paid is tough to overcome. I've heard the argument of shaving and trusting their stats and it doesn't make sense to me why that's an issue. DON'T USE THEIR STATS! Just look at how much you get paid vs how many impressions you gave them and figure out your revenue per thousand impressions (RPM). Compare programs that way. It puts everyone on even footing. So what if they're shaving? If you're making 10 cents more per 1000 impression, does it matter? Yes, this method requires you to keep on top of your stats and track everything very closely. We set up separate accounts with each program for every one of our placements. Thus, we know that with TrafficCashGold we average 1/270 on our 180x150 banner position vs 1/230 on our 120x240 position. Crunch Numbers! This is all a numbers game. The better hold you have on where your traffic is going and how much you're making, the more you'll make.

CJ is a unique site with insane traffic. I'm sure we've got more experience with every program out there than just about anyone else. I 100% understand how you can make good money by only sending your traffic to affiliate programs. You just have to watch the numbers. Of course, we're also hoping that we can make even better money by running our own program (insert CJBUCKS plug).

Finally, let me address the pay/join vs rev-share model. For the longest time, I really thought the only way these programs could offer $40 to $45 per join (trial join even) was to shave the hell out of the webmaster. I've come to realize, that if you're doing a very high volume of joins, you don't have to shave. You can pay that because you're making money on the backend: not paying on exits, not paying on dialer/international traffic, grabbing email addresses and sending mailings. Don't get me wrong, I know the temptation of making more $ by shaving the numbers happens. It's sad, but I believe true. Human's by nature are greedy bastards. When we launch CJBucks, we're initially only going to offer rev-share. We simply won't have the volume of traffic when we launch to offer pay/join. Eventually, when we're making enough off the pops, emails, and dialers, we'll start offering it.

From the sending traffic side, we used to only do pay/join. We avoided rev-share like the plague. We didn't trust anyone and wanted the cash up front. We have no control over what the retention rate will be for someone else?s site, so we have no idea what we'd make off a rev-share. Then Bangbus came along. Here we had an original site with good content and regular updates. We were confident enough that the retention rate would be there so we did a rev-share and it worked. We made more than $40 per join. Since then, we've selectively started doing rev-shares. Only with fresh sites that have custom content. Sites like CollegeFuckFest.com and HerFirstGangBang.com. These are the sites that have a strong enough retention rate to warrant a rev-share. So, our formula is now to do pay/join with the major programs and rev-share with smaller sites that have great content.

Sorry for the long post, just hoping our experience will help someone. In a nutshell, buying traffic can work well for you, just buy from reputable companies and cover your bases. Always ask for references and actually contact them. Don't ever buy traffic without a contract. There are companies out there like us that have good reasons to sell their traffic and won't screw you over. BUT, beware that it's the exception, not the norm.

ATL_Ryan · 11-07-2002, 03:43 PM

Nysus · 11-07-2002, 04:02 PM

Great post Marc. Awesome.

Best of like with CJbucks.

Cheers,
Matt

Techie Media · 11-07-2002, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Choker
Funny how people who have shit sites complain about buying traffic. It's real convenient to blame everyone but yourself for no sales when your site just simply sucks. Buying traffic is the future of this biz. Guys are tired of crappy sponsors screwing them. Smaller paysites with $14.95 to $24.95 monthly fees and NO AFFILIATE programs are the big growth right now. These guys can afford to buy all their traffic and still make a very good profit. They don't have time to worry about generating traffic, so it is easier for them to just buy it.
And just like Sleazy does, thousands of TGP's are selling spots like crazy now. Look at all the TGP's that are starting to charge to submit galleries. The days of free traffic for gallery makers will be over soon IMO. If you guys complaining about paid traffic even had a clue as to how much traffic is sold per day, you would spend your time learning how to convert it instead of whining about it.
Pornkings this reply is not aimed at you dude.

Hey Choker, Long time bro, hope its all going well for you. What you just wrote saved me allot of typing, Thanks

...also SpeakEasy said some good points as well. Buying and selling traffic has been around since the beginning, and will be around forever.

Pornwolf · 11-07-2002, 05:02 PM

This is one of the better GFY threads.

black torana · 11-10-2002, 01:42 AM

DAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im still getting my head around the 4.000.000.000 banners a month lol
cheers robbie

SleazyDream · 11-10-2002, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad
Yes.

But the people who are making shitloads from money it aren't on GFY telling you about it.

ummm, I know a few on here that make PILES of money doing it...

FlyingIguana · 11-10-2002, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alky
but the point is, if your traffic is THAT good, why aren't you keeping it for yourself and making coin from it?

less risk, and for some waiting 21 business days for a cheque to clear is a pain in the ass.

<IMX> · 11-10-2002, 02:57 AM

Same reason why Overture sells traffic.

The larger your company/site/collection of sites becomes, the more difficult it will become to maximize your revenue per click.

11-06-2002, 06:40 PM	#1
pentae Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Inconceivable! Posts: 899	Has anyone EVER made money on a prepaid traffic deal? I dont think anyone ever has. Everyone selling their traffic and asking for the money up front usually has absolutely horrid conversions they dont want you to know about, and can make more money selling it than sending it to ARS like everybody else. I'm really sick of getting email spammed from webmasters saying "I will sell you a spot on my TGP for $3,000 a month, its a bargain!" And the thing is, they do it because theres people out there who take the gamble. Convincing them to put up your link on a pay-per-signup deal is hopeless, and the dodgy car-salesman like webmaster always has excuses. Usually something like "I dont know if i'll get paid!" .. And when you tell them that anyone asking prepaid amounts of traffic is a scammer, my all time favourite comeback was "Sex.com do it!" So, lets hear everyone elses experiences with prepaid traffic deals! this ought to be a laugh..

11-06-2002, 07:18 PM	#2
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,482	I've sold on a prepaid basis. I usually request it unless the company I deal with has a good reputation. Once I know their reputation is good I work on weekly/bi-weekly. Otherwise I don't need to get burnt with the quality of my traffic so why risk it. WG __________________ I play with Google.

11-06-2002, 10:17 PM	#17
Pornkings Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Roger V Posts: 5,334	every prepaid deal I have done with brokers and its been many has turned out bad. Most of the time if you do a test they send the good traffic when you bump it up they start sending forced exit or shit traffic mixed with it to get the hit counts. People think there traffic is worth more than it is. If the traffic is good they would make a killing on pay per trial programs. I have never heard of a sponsor not pay for good traffic... I'm going to start buying traffic again on tgp's on a flat rate deal. and Search engine traffic per click. I'm working a sweet deal with Inktomi I havn't done it for about a year so we will see what happens this time around. __________________ Pornkings.com Last edited by Pornkings; 11-06-2002 at 10:20 PM..

11-06-2002, 10:55 PM	#22
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	__________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP

11-07-2002, 12:23 AM	#25
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	i can think of only a few situations where buying traffic might work out. A person like WiredGuy. There are other people like him, search engine wizards, who have no interest in signing up and testing out programs .... much easier for these types of people to find a few good customers for their traffic and be done with it. Same thing with domain tycoons. But 98% of people brokering and selling traffic are con artists. Somebody mentioned it............why would you sell traffic that you know you can make more money with filtering it and sending it on to sponsors? And the old bait and switch traffic test is as old as the Adult Net. They'll send you quality traffic for your 100 dollar test, then once they have a check for a couple thousand dollars or more .......... like shit through a goose watch that recycled circle jerk, 12 th blurred console in a chain traffic is let loose on you! The smart con artists lets this bait and switch thing go on a lot longer, until you're totally suckered in that the guy is good. So you're still sending him big checks probaby 5 figures now and slowly the traffic gets worse and worse, you can string people along for a long time working this way. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

11-06-2002, 07:21 PM	#3
Alky Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 5,651	but the point is, if your traffic is THAT good, why aren't you keeping it for yourself and making coin from it?

11-06-2002, 07:26 PM	#5
ColKurtz So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambodia Posts: 596	I think he means, why not just join a program like ARS or whatever, and send it to them if it is good traffic that converts.

11-06-2002, 08:00 PM	#9
bawdy Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,424	also imo the reasons to be selling traffic is to improve cash flow and diversify income streams so you dont rely upon a sponsor(s) to pay u out at the end of a month if traffic sales is going to survive long term they have to leave a decent amount of value to traffic to the those who purchase traffic

11-06-2002, 08:32 PM	#11
pentae Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Inconceivable! Posts: 899	sorry bawdy I got a bit enthusiastic with the shift key. Hey whereabouts in brizzy are you? what sites do you run? ICQ me!

11-06-2002, 08:32 PM	#12
SpeakEasy Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Internet Posts: 2,681	This topic has so many different sides, and views, it could be debated forever. But I'll add a few of my opinions. First of all Gothweb you say "My advice-- don't buy traffic.", arent you the same person that was selling everything you had and closing up shop a few weeks ago because of a 750.00 visa fee??... , well maybe you should NOT listen to your own advice??... OK there are a few good reasons to buy traffic, for example, some of you spend countless hours building galleries and submitting them to tgp's just to feed some used cj and tgp traffic to your own tgp, or avs, or freesite etc.... Well look at all the time and money (content, bandwidth etc...) you have wasted just to end up with some garbage traffic. Well you could have just bought some traffic for the same amount of money (or less) and MUCH less wasted time, and fed your sites more traffic in a faster time period then the few measily hits you will get from some feeder galleries. You could buy 1 million hits cheap and have it delivered in a few days, or you could spend months trying to get 1 million hits from galleries, avs, etc... ..So are you catching on to some of the reasons to buy traffic yet??..... OK heres another reason, once you develop a good working relationship between the buyer and the seller, then you are pretty safe that you will get what the deal is supossed to be, and not waste time getting a gallery listed on some cj site full of cheating cp, animal, crap asian, russian, etc... worthless traffic. Also for the seller, it makes sense because they don't have to keep on top of sponsors that shave, cheat, dont pay etc.... It's a win win situation. So as you can see there are many reasons to buying and selling traffic. The concept has been around since the beginning of adult internet, and it will always remain. Hun, SleazyDream, al4a Lightning Free, Platinum bucks..etc.... They all sell traffic, and or ad space.... There must be a reason??... OK this was just some food for thought, heck what do I know...LMAO

11-06-2002, 10:11 PM	#16
lil2rich4u2 ICQ: 175171926 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,046	SpeakEasy, id be interested in hearing a few trustworthy places to buy traffic at a steal BESIDES sex.com ... seems thats al i hear on this forum, lol Richie, www.PleasureDVDs.com

11-06-2002, 10:51 PM	#20
spanky Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 231	Topic: Has anyone EVER made money on a prepaid traffic deal? yes

11-06-2002, 10:57 PM	#23
[The Leader] Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Van City Posts: 1,026	I've made money from traffic I've prepaid for, and I'm sure a lot of other people have too. Of coarse other times the traffic has been pure shit. I also sell my exit traffic off, because I've never been able to convert it myself. Other people can I guess.

11-07-2002, 04:09 AM	#26
Choker Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orlando Posts: 9,024	Funny how people who have shit sites complain about buying traffic. It's real convenient to blame everyone but yourself for no sales when your site just simply sucks. Buying traffic is the future of this biz. Guys are tired of crappy sponsors screwing them. Smaller paysites with $14.95 to $24.95 monthly fees and NO AFFILIATE programs are the big growth right now. These guys can afford to buy all their traffic and still make a very good profit. They don't have time to worry about generating traffic, so it is easier for them to just buy it. And just like Sleazy does, thousands of TGP's are selling spots like crazy now. Look at all the TGP's that are starting to charge to submit galleries. The days of free traffic for gallery makers will be over soon IMO. If you guys complaining about paid traffic even had a clue as to how much traffic is sold per day, you would spend your time learning how to convert it instead of whining about it. Pornkings this reply is not aimed at you dude. __________________ ICQ me lets make a deal 116894466 Need dating, cam, or tube traffic? I got it.http://http://www.chokertraffic.com The Original http://www.chokertraffic.com/ Premium country pop-unders from $1.50 per k. I challenge you to compare this traffic to any other brokers. http://www.chokertraffic.com/public/tabs.php?t=o

11-07-2002, 04:44 AM	#27
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	There are lots of good paysites out there that aren't over-saturated... so why should I send my traffic to big-XYZ program where I know I am being shaved and the program owner could give a fuck about me... when I can work w/ a unique site on a personal level with the owner, get a custom tour for my traffic, and get paid by Paypal instead of waiting for weeks for a check to arrive... Now you see a lot more webmasters buying/selling traffic through Paypal... there are just so many benefits and with better tracking software this will be even more popular. 50/50 Program

11-07-2002, 05:45 AM	#29
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	Eventually we will all be buying/selling through a broker at real market prices -- calibrated in realtime. The 50/50 and per/signup process is just fucked up for so many reasons... Look a sponsor only has to change their link codes and how many fucking pages will you have to edit? When Lensman did this with AdultPlatinum I thought it was hilarious -- mistake or not -- nobody said a fucking thing -- business as usual. Everyone on a 50/50 or per/signup is getting fucked like that on a daily basis and you don't even know it's happening because you are driving blind watching some fucking fabricated stats page like a trained chimp -- and what are you doing about it? Nothing. I say bullshit!!!!!!!!!! Use your fucking brain there are solutions. You should all be in line to support systems like AdultCentro and guys like Choker because they are going to save your ass from being raped -- 3 years from now sellers and buyers will be on an equal footing... it's only a matter of time and I shouldn't be the only one saying this in public... You're all too fucking scared of your sponsors -- you're fucking slaves. You can't do shit now because you have no leverage... How many webmasters here would like to have a daily/hourly report of the success of each sponsor in the industry!?!!?!!! I mean fuck the future is like that... For example if at 4am Oxcash isn't converting or if at 6pm CCBill is fucked, or if at 9am a new hot program is launched that converts like mad FUCK! FUCK!, everyone on my team should have cgi all over that shit looking at the global market forces -- I shouldn't have to be home tooling alone all day on my computer -- i want my shit dynamically switching every ad spot that I have based on up-to-minute information/measurements to adapt in realtime!!!!!!!!!!!! It's going to happen!

11-07-2002, 10:08 AM	#32
clickpimp Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,159	wherever you get your traffic, one important thing to know and/or ask is the country of origin of your clicks. if you or your sponsor cannot convert 10,000 indian, pakastani, or turkish clicks, what good are they? even if they only cost $1. the only ones making money off this crap are the ones selling back to webmasters - not that all do however. geo-ip is one good way traffic sellers are using to initially filter traffic. we get ~200,000 type-ins daily from every country you can imagine. http://www.sex.com/international/index.html we geo-ip and filter by browser language to try and help send only traffic from clicks you can convert if they were inclined to buy something. although getting them to buy is a job squarely placed on the shoulders of the webmaster. __________________ eventually, earth will lose. enjoy it while it lasts.

11-07-2002, 11:01 AM	#33
Sunshine McGillicutty So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: California Posts: 475	I've done ok with prepaid traffic on the Hun and Choker. The only time I've ever gotten screwed was when I bought from adbuytraffic.com without asking for opinions first.

11-07-2002, 11:05 AM	#34
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	You can make millions selling traffic. I know several that have done well doing nothing else but that.

11-07-2002, 11:34 AM	#36
Mario2002 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 6	Hey, Matbe someone knows of someone or can help. I'm looking for a person that has a good round basic base of graphics, php, & html willing to relocate to the south florida area and work in house. Please email me [email protected] if you know of anyone or may want to check it out foryouself thanks for your time... Keep on Rockin'

11-07-2002, 11:36 AM	#37
Mario2002 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 6	BTW, SpeakEasy - very good points indeed :-)

11-07-2002, 11:54 AM	#39
howard Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: phila Posts: 1,827	First of all there is many different quality levels of traffic and many type of delivery options. TGP's BLOW. I sell double opt in email traffic and have some of the same clients for the past 5 years. They must make money. There are plenty of people who's sites BLOW. Many people have no idea how to market themselves. If your buying traffic it is up to you to make the most money out of it. You can do so by having pop up's, using your exit traffic, selling toys, selling dvd's and offering mainstream products such as cigarettes. It's up to you to give surfers the most choices from the traffic you purchase. Its not the job of the person selling you traffic to market your sites for you. It's all basically common sense. It's real easy to blame the person who sells your traffic if you don't market yourself correctly. And people who complain about pop ups--your morons. they can pay the bills. "I don't want to piss off my surfers"---fuck em. Your doing this to make money not make people happy. And to everyone who says the traffic doesn't work if its quality traffic--IT'S YOUR FAULT. Learn how to market yourselves. Everyone who ever complains I answer back "if this guy and this guy continue to buy and make money it's not my fault if you don't. This ain't geometry--its simple math. Face it--maybe it's you. I buy traffic too. There are a lot of liars out there. You get fucked. it's part of the business were in. But if your buying quality and it don't work for you then change your marketing plan or get out of the biz. And last of all, if you have quality traffic and your not prepaid for it then your ripping yourself off. howard [email protected] __________________ perkissmedia.com [email protected] 318621803 perkymon993 Skype

11-07-2002, 01:58 PM	#40
MarcWomack Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 529	Wow, lively debate. Let me chime in on the side of a company that sells traffic. If you guys aren't familiar with our site, check out the traffic generating site of ConsumptionJunction.com . We're a strange breed of adult-shock-humor that's incredibly difficult to categorize. Our traffic doesn't come to CJ to jerk off, but the still convert really well on quality sites. We average 1/250 conversions (based on our numbers, not theirs) with TrafficCashGold, Topbucks, TrueCash, and PlatinumBucks. We send about 50% of our traffic to the affiliate programs and I retail the other 50%. You've got to understand, we're a ridiculously high-traffic site. We serve around 4,000,000,000 ads month. Why not just send traffic to the affiliate programs? Wouldn't it be less work? We split our traffic for stability and variety for our fans. We've got a very high percentage of visitors that come to CJ daily. As many sites as these programs run, it's tough to get enough variety when we're dealing with this volume of ads. It's not the money-in-hand issue because all the programs pre-pay us for joins anyway. Also, it's always better to have diversity in your income streams. It also minimizes our risk. We know that with $40 to $45 payout and 1/250 conversion; we make $0.16 to $0.18 cents per click. We take all our ad placements, figure out how many clicks they did the month prior, multiply by $0.17 and that's how much we retail them for. The key to our "retailing" of our traffic is that we don't gouge anyone. We charge what we could make off of it. If the customer's site is quality and converts in the 1/250 to 1/500 range, they'll make a profit because they keep the recurring revenue. Happy customers make repeat customers which is always more profitable for a business. Another key is that we turn sites away if we don't feel they'll convert. One great thing about this industry is that reputation still matters. If you screw someone, word will get out. Others have mentioned that if you have quality traffic, why not build your own sites and profit from them. Great idea. We'll be launching our program (CJBucks) with 10 sites this month. But we've been in business for three and a half years. Why didn't we do this sooner? Initial investment and resources. We're a free site that does 200 mb/s in bandwidth. It takes money to start a program the right way (quality processing, quality sites, quality affiliate software). Also, the ease of just sending the traffic off and getting paid is tough to overcome. I've heard the argument of shaving and trusting their stats and it doesn't make sense to me why that's an issue. DON'T USE THEIR STATS! Just look at how much you get paid vs how many impressions you gave them and figure out your revenue per thousand impressions (RPM). Compare programs that way. It puts everyone on even footing. So what if they're shaving? If you're making 10 cents more per 1000 impression, does it matter? Yes, this method requires you to keep on top of your stats and track everything very closely. We set up separate accounts with each program for every one of our placements. Thus, we know that with TrafficCashGold we average 1/270 on our 180x150 banner position vs 1/230 on our 120x240 position. Crunch Numbers! This is all a numbers game. The better hold you have on where your traffic is going and how much you're making, the more you'll make. CJ is a unique site with insane traffic. I'm sure we've got more experience with every program out there than just about anyone else. I 100% understand how you can make good money by only sending your traffic to affiliate programs. You just have to watch the numbers. Of course, we're also hoping that we can make even better money by running our own program (insert CJBUCKS plug). Finally, let me address the pay/join vs rev-share model. For the longest time, I really thought the only way these programs could offer $40 to $45 per join (trial join even) was to shave the hell out of the webmaster. I've come to realize, that if you're doing a very high volume of joins, you don't have to shave. You can pay that because you're making money on the backend: not paying on exits, not paying on dialer/international traffic, grabbing email addresses and sending mailings. Don't get me wrong, I know the temptation of making more $ by shaving the numbers happens. It's sad, but I believe true. Human's by nature are greedy bastards. When we launch CJBucks, we're initially only going to offer rev-share. We simply won't have the volume of traffic when we launch to offer pay/join. Eventually, when we're making enough off the pops, emails, and dialers, we'll start offering it. From the sending traffic side, we used to only do pay/join. We avoided rev-share like the plague. We didn't trust anyone and wanted the cash up front. We have no control over what the retention rate will be for someone else?s site, so we have no idea what we'd make off a rev-share. Then Bangbus came along. Here we had an original site with good content and regular updates. We were confident enough that the retention rate would be there so we did a rev-share and it worked. We made more than $40 per join. Since then, we've selectively started doing rev-shares. Only with fresh sites that have custom content. Sites like CollegeFuckFest.com and HerFirstGangBang.com. These are the sites that have a strong enough retention rate to warrant a rev-share. So, our formula is now to do pay/join with the major programs and rev-share with smaller sites that have great content. Sorry for the long post, just hoping our experience will help someone. In a nutshell, buying traffic can work well for you, just buy from reputable companies and cover your bases. Always ask for references and actually contact them. Don't ever buy traffic without a contract. There are companies out there like us that have good reasons to sell their traffic and won't screw you over. BUT, beware that it's the exception, not the norm. __________________ Regards, MarcWomack.com Internet Advertising & Outsourcing Consultant

11-07-2002, 03:43 PM	#41
ATL_Ryan Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,519	WORD

11-07-2002, 04:02 PM	#42
Nysus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,817	Great post Marc. Awesome. Best of like with CJbucks. Cheers, Matt

11-07-2002, 05:02 PM	#44
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	This is one of the better GFY threads. __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

11-10-2002, 01:42 AM	#45
black torana Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: gold coast australia Posts: 23	DAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im still getting my head around the 4.000.000.000 banners a month lol cheers robbie __________________ http://www.funwebcams is comming soon

11-10-2002, 02:57 AM	#48
<IMX> Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,728	Same reason why Overture sells traffic. The larger your company/site/collection of sites becomes, the more difficult it will become to maximize your revenue per click. __________________ $$$ Check out NICHE PAY the leader of Micro Niche Sites! They offer $1 Trials! $$$ $$$ Check out 10 FREE TRIAL SALES equals 1 FREE LAP TOP ! $$$