Can a bailout even save GM?

[StuartD]

I mean seriously, would you buy one?

Would you pay for the extended warranty? Will they really be able to convince people that it's a safe purchase now?

[After Shock Media]

Not unless the bailout also came with 2 things.
Age cap past retirement accounts.
Remove the union from current employees.

[quiet]

i'd never buy one before, i certainly would not be buying one now.

[WiredGuy]

The union needs to go or it will take the company down in flames. Find a way to get rid of them or no bailout.
WG

[farkedup]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Not unless the bailout also came with 2 things.
Age cap past retirement accounts.
Remove the union from current employees.

it needs a bit more than that but simply handing them money is the dumbest thing imaginable.
1) Immediately canceling ALL ad contracts since they spend BILLIONS a year in advertising
2) dissolving the unions or at least bitch slapping the unions into shape. There's no reason for the unions to fund the kinds of things they do.
3) ending all "bonuses" to management

Alright there's a good $4B/yr saved off of expensives just from 1 and 3... #2 could save billions more.

That's without firing anybody yet or shutting anything down....

Sell brands/properties that don't make sense
1) open auction of Hummer, move it for whatever the brand can be sold for. This can be a marketable brand don't just shut it down and disappear
2) GM has an insane amount of intellectual property that could be auctioned off for tons of CASH

There is simply no reason GM should actually go under if they were managed properly. Unions and other bad spending has crippled them.

[Klen]

Screw them.I know that means a lot of people without job,but they should go work to other car companies which will now have bigger market share.

[spacedog]

bailout = stop gap measure.

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by farkedup

it needs a bit more than that but simply handing them money is the dumbest thing imaginable.
1) Immediately canceling ALL ad contracts since they spend BILLIONS a year in advertising
2) dissolving the unions or at least bitch slapping the unions into shape. There's no reason for the unions to fund the kinds of things they do.
3) ending all "bonuses" to management

Alright there's a good $4B/yr saved off of expensives just from 1 and 3... #2 could save billions more.

That's without firing anybody yet or shutting anything down....

Sell brands/properties that don't make sense
1) open auction of Hummer, move it for whatever the brand can be sold for. This can be a marketable brand don't just shut it down and disappear
2) GM has an insane amount of intellectual property that could be auctioned off for tons of CASH

There is simply no reason GM should actually go under if they were managed properly. Unions and other bad spending has crippled them.

You lost me the second you said cancel all ad contracts. The day you stop advertising is the day your company starts dieing. - Someone else said that and I am firm believer. I think it was Wrigley, not 100% sure.

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Screw them.I know that means a lot of people without job,but they should go work to other car companies which will now have bigger market share.

truly an economic genius

[crockett]

It's the union and paying all the benefits/retirements that killed GM. If they file for bankruptcy they could get out from under all that and restructure.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Let them go under. Someone that can run a business will buy them. Bail out will only fill ceo pockets.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Screw them.I know that means a lot of people without job,but they should go work to other car companies which will now have bigger market share.

? That would require most people to move to Japan.

[DannysReviews|com]

Good thing I work for the winner in the automotive industry.

[EscortBiz]

the union controls too much to just be able to rid them

[StuartD]

Ok, I agree about the union and unions in general. They've far out lived their usefullness into just being a thorn in the side of every industry there is... but....

back to the main question. If they were bailed out and restructured... would people ever trust them enough to buy them out of serious financial trouble?

[farkedup]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

You lost me the second you said cancel all ad contracts. The day you stop advertising is the day your company starts dieing. - Someone else said that and I am firm believer. I think it was Wrigley, not 100% sure.

Everybody knows who GM is and knows the heart of their entire lineup. The fact here is WE THE TAXPAYERS would be the ones paying for the advertising in a "bailout" scenario. The company STARTED dieing long before now so simply pulling the plug on advertising EXPENSES are one of those temporary fixes you can do to help prevent you from losing so much MONEY. If you're losing billions a year shouldn't you cut billions in expenses in 1 quick cut?

I get pissed off constantly seeing GM commercials on TV just thinking about us bailing them out.

[HAPPYPEEKERS]

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

You lost me the second you said cancel all ad contracts. The day you stop advertising is the day your company starts dieing. - Someone else said that and I am firm believer. I think it was Wrigley, not 100% sure.

They are already dying... almost dead

[Big John]

For what it's worth they're already cancelling a lot of their ads.

As to the idiot that thinks they need no advertising...if you're not already go get an employed job outside of marketing. There's no way you have any sort of long-term future on your own.

[GetSCORECash]

Originally Posted by spacedog

bailout = stop gap measure.

if we give them money now, they will be back in a few years.

[farkedup]

Originally Posted by Big John

For what it's worth they're already cancelling a lot of their ads.

As to the idiot that thinks they need no advertising...if you're not already go get an employed job outside of marketing. There's no way you have any sort of long-term future on your own.

staring directly in the eye of bankruptcy you seriously think can afford to continue advertising? If a single dollar of my tax money goes to them while they're blowing money to the exec bonuses and advertising I will feel seriously ripped off!

[Adam_M]

I think it's a wait of money!

[spacedog]

Originally Posted by SCORE-Cash

if we give them money now, they will be back in a few years.

If the economy collapses on a scale greater than the great depression, whom is going to be buying cars?

If the USD tanks, whom will be buying cars?

[farkedup]

Originally Posted by spacedog

If the economy collapses on a scale greater than the great depression, whom is going to be buying cars?

If the USD tanks, whom will be buying cars?

didn't you know? Obama apparently is supposed to fix everything...

he's going to magically turn all the streets into solid gold.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

? That would require most people to move to Japan.

General motors is not only american car production company.You will see
here USA is second in production after japan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

? That would require most people to move to Japan.

Aren't most Japanese cars sold in North America built in North America these days?

[grumpy]

how many brands does GM represent?

[farkedup]

Originally Posted by candyflip

Aren't most Japanese cars sold in North America built in North America these days?

a decent chunk of them are ASSEMBLED in the US but where are all the parts produced at?

[farkedup]

Originally Posted by grumpy

how many brands does GM represent?

Pontiac
GM
Chevy
Geo
Oldsmobile
hummer

Shit they have more that i'm just not thinking of but obviously Geo on down aren't made anymore but are still brands refpresented

[PurrrsianPussyKat]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's the union and paying all the benefits/retirements that killed GM. If they file for bankruptcy they could get out from under all that and restructure.

This is what has to happen first. They need to restructure. There's no reason a guy screwing a door handle on all day is making $40 an hr. Plus, the guys at the top need to start making $1 million a yr instead of $200 million. They ovbiously can't run a kids lemonade stand if they are in the position they are in now.

The reality is, if a company as big as gm fails, it's not just them and their employees that are fucked. It's truly a domino effect. You've got the people working in the factories that supply them with door handles, the glass manufacturers and the steel industry.

PLUS all that tax base has been wiped out. Instead of 50k employees paying taxes, now they are all on the gov't dole. Getting medicaid and food stamps and unemployment. $25 billion is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money it will cost the gov't if they fail.

They need someone to come in with a whip and bust some heads. Someone who can run a business that is profitable. But they are going to get their bail out. Trust me on this one.

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by farkedup

Pontiac
GM
Chevy
Geo
Oldsmobile
hummer

Shit they have more that i'm just not thinking of but obviously Geo on down aren't made anymore but are still brands refpresented

i found saab and cadillac
Only saab is worth saving with this economy, all others are gasoline slurpers and not the cars you wanna buy now ( in general )

So, no bailout for GM

[farkedup]

Originally Posted by grumpy

i found saab and cadillac
Only saab is worth saving with this economy, all others are gasoline slurpers and not the cars you wanna buy now ( in general )

So, no bailout for GM

The Pontiac G8 which is actually just an australian import from holden... Holden is the aussie GM and Holden made the GTO too. They know cars pretty well and even has a modern El camino but I can't remember what its called.

I really can't figure out how it would make sense to allow a company that clearly is clueless on how to run a profitable business to receive a bailout.

Any bailout has to have very clear restrictions.

[Axeman]

GM would be better off to file chapter 11 so they could remove the union and then restructure the top management. Once that happened a loan to help them bridge the gap in the new era would be probably effective.

But they definitely need to get fresh blood in management as well to get cars people want. They got the Volt coming out but its going to be ridiculously priced.

[Helix]

It's not just the unions, it's also the hefty executive pay. GM knew they were in deep trouble but the execs still make huge bank - Executive Compensation
Deep cuts need to be made by every GM employee, not just the union employees for a bailout to have any chance of helping GM recover.

[DamageX]

No. But it will get the unions to shut the fuck up.

[EscortBiz]

Originally Posted by Helix

It's not just the unions, it's also the hefty executive pay. GM knew they were in deep trouble but the execs still make huge bank - Executive Compensation
Deep cuts need to be made by every GM employee, not just the union employees for a bailout to have any chance of helping GM recover.

if you cut all exe pay even at a higher number youd save say 50mil a year lol whats that

[farkedup]

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

if you cut all exe pay even at a higher number youd save say 50mil a year lol whats that

thats just the board, where's the rest of the management?

[tASSy]

a shitty car manufacturer should not be receiving bailouts from the government. i think a better question to ask is should we even be giving a bailout to GM. crappy cars = no revenue = none of those supposed jobs that are keeping our country going.

[PostWhore]

let them go broke

[TehKinkyHotness]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

? That would require most people to move to Japan.

If you think Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, etc are actually made in Japan, you need to think again...