spending is what makes an economy work.

Stimulus checks are nothing but a joke... They are nothing more than:

"Here you go, see how nice we really are..."
Uncle Sam pats us lovingly on the head.
"Go on little sheep... Go spend your money... Don't worry yourself with what we're up to."

I do not fully agree with that.

Saving, investing, and actually producing something is what makes an economy work. Constantly buying stuff on credit that is mostly imported does very damn little for our economy outside of keeping some teenagers in blue shirts employed at minimum wage.

What is the averages savings rate of a US citizen now?
What is the average debt of a US citizen now?

Now take a look at citizens of a country that got hammered financially and recovered after a decade or so, like Japan.

Teachers and techs are totally different

how so? a tech working for 30 years can still suck at what he does, just the same as the teacher

Yeah, but you do not need a union to ensure either one has the experience or skill to do the job.

Are there unions in an organization like the Navy or Air Force that ensure the people and techs handling, fueling, or even flying the equipment etc. are skilled and qualified to do so? (I know the answer, but same point applies - unions are not needed)


PS this is a forever argument and I am way to tired to keep going on. :upsidedow

the thing is spending is great and it is what makes the economy run

but what ruins spending is money hoarding

its those rich billionaire dudes who take their money and shove it away somewhere that it cant be touched by taxes and they dont spend any of it

thats when the problems start happening

if those guys dumped that money into research, or anything really it could do wonders but instead it just sits there, making them richer but doing nothing for anyone else

It is like it is a giant game of texas hold em. They have huge ass stacks and a the rest of us are struggling or being taken out by either the blinds or playing the best hand we are dealt. Meanwhile they can just hoard more and bully the other players.

We are partially to blame for the problems today. Too many people spend beyond their limits.

I can understand going in debt to buy a house....but don't go beyond what you can afford comfortably. Someone will be approved for a 400k loan and they want the 500k or 600k house

I can understand going in debt to buy a car... again don't go beyond what you can afford. If you can get a new Nissan Sentra... don't push for the Nissan 350z

Too many people put shit on credit instead of waiting until they can afford it without using credit. Delayed gratification people... hello

Why do you think stores put offers out saying don't pay until 2010.... they want you to go in debt and get you to buy so they can stay in business.

It's fucking simple.... stop trying to keep up with everyone else and buy what you can afford.


As far as this whole bailout situation....

It is setting a bad precedent. Let a company make bad business decisions without fear because our tax dollars will save them.

AIG is given what 80 billion and they go on a $500,000 vacation

AIG gets another 60 billion and they go on another $300,000 vacation

Our money paying for a company that made bad business decisions

Now the car makers are crying. I understand the number of jobs on the line and it makes me sick that the situation is there but there is a reason why they can't compete with the other car makers.... higher overhead, lower quality, higher vehicle cost, to name a few.

I don't think helping the car makers will fix the problem, it will only prolong the inevitable.

Should we help Circuit City too because they owe Hewlett-Packard Co 118 million? Help them because they owe 116 million to Samsung? Help them pay the 60 million they owe to Sony.

Where does it end?

I don't pretend to know it all but that is my :2 cents:

exactly especially with the thing about the blinds!

The bailout of any of these industries is fucking ridiculous... Our downfall.

If you can't learn the basics after a few years,you're gone.aviation dont fuck around

[PS this is a forever argument and I am way to tired to keep going on. :upsidedow[/QUOTE]

Yep, pretty much lots of people lying about how much money they have because most of it is money that they don't actually HAVE.

Then you have people who actually sell you stuff based on that, not based on money you have but money you say you can have. which is fucking silly if you think of it but it kept numbers going up and everything looked so good for so long

fuck only a year ago the dow was at 14,000 thats fucking huge! but it was all a big lie and it was fake so i dont know how the government thinks using more fake money is going to help anything? we need a reset and we need to see whats really there, not just what people are saying is there

In other words, you think welfare is just dandy?

I know the costs... FUCK THEM.

Make cars that people NEED right now and restructure your business like anyone else would have to do.

They are releasing a new HUMMER next year for fucks sake. Who is going to buy this besides black dudes with drug money and athletes?

Wow, fucking retarded.

Must you seriously be doom and gloom about everything? If your product is good enough then you should have no issues. If not, then you can seek a bailout also because you can't compete with an inferior product to sell in this market.

What are you smoking because it has to be some real strong stuff. What is the better replacement the free market has come up with so far?

The free market is what got us into this crisis and will never get us out. It's about having a balance between free and controlled. Not one of them, both of them.

Free market = People running companies to fill their pockets now. And the pockets of a few. Look around at all the companies like Enron, companies who paid CEOs big bonuses when the company was clearly losing money or banks who paid big bonuses to top management with the bail out money.

Controlled market = Something like socialism where those who do the work and bring in the business don't get the reward.

We need a balance between the two.

The free market in reality. The year before his company goes bankrupt this guy gets paid $14.5 million and a rise of 41% over the previous year. Got to love the free market working. Plus the trickle down effect. :Oh crap

With the numbers of people losing jobs, welfare in inevitable. Do you really want 3 million people on the soup line in the US in 2008/9? How many own guns.

What ever choice is made on the bail out the tax payer will pay.

Reading this thread something struck me. So many are screaming that companies like GM should be allowed to sink because they fucked the customers for years and only looked at what suited them. And now they are suffering from the consequences.

Now what other industry does that remind you of? ;)

What's the alternative?

Every person on welfare will be spending all the money given to them in the local community. And spending it on food, rent, heating, etc. If you keep that money and give it to people over $100,000 you can bet a lot will be spending the money on things outside the local community. Like holidays or foreign cars.

People on welfare will often spend money in places owned or managed by people earning $100,000. It's called the trickle up effect. :winkwink:

Yes people on welfare have to do something for it. Like sweep the streets, help the aged and infirm or anything that contribute to society as a whole. But you can't not support them because they don't have a job that does not exist.