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-   -   Why do you prefer Tableless CSS markup? (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=866382)

FlexxAeon 11-03-2008 04:35 PM
if i hit 1k in this thread, somebody is gonna PAY :mad:

edit: 150 SEMI-POINTLESS DEBATES!

potter 11-03-2008 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 14999031)
Yer right ya should have just kept your pie hole shut and learned from experienced guys. You still have not explained to us how CSS is going to Magically call up the right template by itself.

SHow me.
Ok, it doesn't call up a "template" first off. It's a style sheet. And what style sheet is chosen via the linked media type in the header is a decision made by the BROWSER, not your server.

Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE 11-03-2008 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 14999031)
Yer right ya should have just kept your pie hole shut and learned from experienced guys. You still have not explained to us how CSS is going to Magically call up the right template by itself.

SHow me.

<link href="browser.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen">

Because that is not gonna do shit for nothing without instruction from another source or method to send the correct template.
Please, I asked you to join your fellow retard friend Sortie in the tard yard.

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/media.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-reader/

read up on those.

sortie 11-03-2008 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retox Josh (Post 14998574)

Using a .css file is NOT over head, it loads the file ONCE unless it has been updated since its last checking, and then every time you visit that page, that css file is loaded again from YOUR local temp files, NOT from the server, unlike tables which are loaded on EVERY page view.
OK, so when you get 1 millions surfers to the page with css on it the css only
loads once and not 1 millions times?


:1orglaugh


BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


You are a fucking retard.

That's like saying that the 25k image only loads once so you can get a millions hits
and cache that image and only use 25k in bandwidth.


:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh


What a total fucking retard.

Bro Media - BANNED FOR LIFE 11-03-2008 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortie (Post 14999075)
OK, so when you get 1 millions surfers to the page with css on it the css only
loads once and not 1 millions times.


:1orglaugh


BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


You are a fucking retard.

That's like saying that the 25k image only loads once so you can get a millions hits
and cache that image and only use 25k in bandwidth.


:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh


What a total fucking retard.
Once again you show your true stupidity.

It's cached LOCALLY meaning, IF YOU HIT THE PAGE TWICE, IT ONLY LOADS ONCE, WHEREAS THE TABLES LOAD TWICE.

Bigger for you:
IF YOU HIT THE PAGE TWICE, IT ONLY LOADS ONCE, WHEREAS THE TABLES LOAD TWICE.

potter 11-03-2008 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortie (Post 14999075)
OK, so when you get 1 millions surfers to the page with css on it the css only
loads once and not 1 millions times.


:1orglaugh


BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


You are a fucking retard.

That's like saying that the 25k image only loads once so you can get a millions hits
and cache that image and only use 25k in bandwidth.


:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh


What a total fucking retard.
I don't think you understand what he meant.....

sortie 11-03-2008 04:45 PM
Hey Retox!!

You just claimed that browsers don't cache tables.

:1orglaugh

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 11-03-2008 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by potter (Post 14999064)
Ok, it doesn't call up a "template" first off. It's a style sheet. And what style sheet is chosen via the linked media type in the header is a decision made by the BROWSER, not your server.
Uhmm no...
Browser is going to display which one you tell it to.

Meaning ya want it to work with a PSP? Ya do a browser detect either server side or Java script then reference the template or Style sheet you wish it to use. CSS is not going to detect the browser for you.

sortie 11-03-2008 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retox Josh (Post 14999083)
IF YOU HIT THE PAGE TWICE, IT ONLY LOADS ONCE, WHEREAS THE TABLES LOAD TWICE.
Browsers no longer cash html....just CSS????


:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Voodoo 11-03-2008 04:47 PM
http://www.stud.tu-ilmenau.de/~haku-...s/retarded.jpg

fris 11-03-2008 04:47 PM
best quote made all year

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 14998290)
I am a developer

sortie 11-03-2008 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by potter (Post 14999099)
I don't think you understand what he meant.....
I understand that he's fucking stupid.

mrkris 11-03-2008 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortie (Post 14999075)
OK, so when you get 1 millions surfers to the page with css on it the css only
loads once and not 1 millions times?


:1orglaugh


BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


You are a fucking retard.

That's like saying that the 25k image only loads once so you can get a millions hits
and cache that image and only use 25k in bandwidth.


:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh


What a total fucking retard.
http://bp3.blogger.com/_g2G9XZSAzPY/...eillymad.2.jpg

StuartD 11-03-2008 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 14999113)
Uhmm no...
Browser is going to display which one you tell it to.

Meaning ya want it to work with a PSP? Ya do a browser detect either server side or Java script then reference the template or Style sheet you wish it to use. CSS is not going to detect the browser for you.
Yes, actually CSS is going to.

media='screen' means that it will automatically be used on a PC.
media='printer' means that it will automatically be used when sent to a printer
media='handheld' means that it will automatically be used when a mobile device loads the page.

No javascript. No server side scripting.

Do some research before coming back please.

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/media.html

potter 11-03-2008 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienQ (Post 14999113)
Uhmm no...
Browser is going to display which one you tell it to.

Meaning ya want it to work with a PSP? Ya do a browser detect either server side or Java script then reference the template or Style sheet you wish it to use. CSS is not going to detect the browser for you.
How do you not understand this? The HTML / server side things don't change. Nothing happens server side.

When you visit a web page. Your browser, psp, or whatever the hell you're using. "Loads" and "Renders" that page. The browser itself knows what it is. When it reads the style sheet link in the head. It'll choose and load the style sheet it knows itself is.

I just don't know how to explain this to you. It should be such simple basic knowledge.

Quote:
3.2 Conformance

This section defines conformance with the CSS2 specification only. There may be other levels of CSS in the future that may require a user agent to implement a different set of features in order to conform.

In general, the following points must be observed by a user agent claiming conformance to this specification:

1. It must support one or more of the CSS2 media types.
2. For each source document, it must attempt to retrieve all associated style sheets that are appropriate for the supported media types. If it cannot retrieve all associated style sheets (for instance, because of network errors), it must display the document using those it can retrieve.
3. It must parse the style sheets according to this specification. In particular, it must recognize all at-rules, blocks, declarations, and selectors (see the grammar of CSS2). If a user agent encounters a property that applies for a supported media type, the user agent must parse the value according to the property definition. This means that the user agent must accept all valid values and must ignore declarations with invalid values. User agents must ignore rules that apply to unsupported media types.
4. For each element in a document tree, it must assign a value for every applicable property according to the property's definition and the rules of cascading and inheritance.
5. If the source document comes with alternate style sheets (such as with the "alternate" keyword in HTML 4.0 [HTML40]), the UA must allow the user to select one from among these style sheets and apply the selected one.

Not every user agent must observe every point, however:

* A user agent that inputs style sheets must respect points 1 - 3.
* An authoring tool is only required to output valid style sheets
* A user agent that renders a document with associated style sheets must respect points 1 - 5 and render the document according to the media-specific requirements set forth in this specification. Values may be approximated when required by the user agent.

The inability of a user agent to implement part of this specification due to the limitations of a particular device (e.g., a user agent cannot render colors on a monochrome monitor or page) does not imply non-conformance.

This specification recommends that a user agent allow the user to specify user style sheets.
Bolded the key part. Since you're incredibly stupid here, "user agent" means the browser.

Do you get it now? Browsers, choose the style sheet. Browsers know what they are, they don't need your server or scripting to tell them what they are. Browsers can READ your header and know which style sheet they're supposed to use.

ExLust 11-03-2008 05:01 PM
Too much to read. IMO, with CSS you can quickly change the look of your entire web site by changing one file. It doesn't matter Tableless-CSS pages as long as good SEO applied.

sortie 11-03-2008 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlexxAeon (Post 14998246)
I understand that FULLY but as i said above, that is still INFORMATION that would need to be processed. are we saying now that a SE has eyeballs and is reading the page? or that all SE indexing is done by hand? 1's and 0's are still 1's and 0's.... am i wrong?

Ok, I wrote this just now for you:

See the highlighted html; that's a webpage:

This script is simple so don't include any javascript or comments and only use
css in a tag like this <div style="border:solid black 1px">.

This is to show you how a search engine sees your site.
This is the part of a search engine that will find the text on your site.


Quote:
#!/usr/bin/perl
print "content-type: text/html\n\n";


$webpage = <<EOF;

<html>
<head>
<title>don't you get it yet?</title>
</head>
<center>
<table width=100>
<tr>
<td align=center>
yeah!!!
</td>
</tr>
<table>
</center>
</body>
</html>




EOF



$safe = 0;
$x = 0;

while ($x >= 0) {

$loc = index($webpage, "\<");

if ($loc != -1) {
$loc2 = index($webpage, "\>", $loc);
if ($loc2 != -1) {
$mess = substr($webpage, $loc, $loc2-$loc+1);
$webpage =~ s/$mess/ /ig;

}
else {
$x=-1;
}

}
else {
$x=-1;
}
$safe++;
if ($safe > 200) {exit;}
if (-e "kill.txt") {exit;}


}



print "Here is the text for that page : <br><br> $webpage";

exit;

Now run that script in your cgi-bin and watch it return the text.

Note:

If you include <script>blah</script> or <style>blah</style> it will return "blah" as text since this
is just a simple example for you.

potter 11-03-2008 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortie (Post 14999288)
Note:

If you include <script>blah</script> or <style>blah</style> it will return "blah" as text since this
is just a simple example for you.
Sortie, I think we all agree on that. What we're saying is, your script still has to mull past the code it isn't going to "interpret". Like, your script still "read" ALL of the code in order to jump from ">" to "<" and pick out the content specifically. Sure, it only outputs/saves the other stuff. However it still read the entire document.

FlexxAeon 11-03-2008 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortie (Post 14999288)
Ok, I wrote this just now for you:

See the highlighted html; that's a webpage:

This script is simple so don't include any javascript or comments and only use
css in a tag like this <div style="border:solid black 1px">.

This is to show you how a search engine sees your site.
This is the part of a search engine that will find the text on your site.





Now run that script in your cgi-bin and watch it return the text.

Note:

If you include <script>blah</script> or <style>blah</style> it will return "blah" as text since this
is just a simple example for you.
potter just said it. but to re-iterate... i get what you're saying but i don't think we're debating the same point. i am confident that a search engine knows how to separate content from code (i think i said that already). but from what i was told, there is either a "character limit" or "byte limit" that a page will be read to, before a spider says "ok, next" and then moves on to spider the next page. and that limit includes code.

sortie 11-03-2008 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlexxAeon (Post 14999500)
potter just said it. but to re-iterate... i get what you're saying but i don't think we're debating the same point. i am confident that a search engine knows how to separate content from code (i think i said that already). but from what i was told, there is either a "character limit" or "byte limit" that a page will be read to, before a spider says "ok, next" and then moves on to spider the next page. and that limit includes code.
Dude, the search engine gets the webpage by doing a http request.
The server sends the entire webage not a few bytes.

The webpage would have to be a mega byte of code before any software would give
a shit.

What the idiot is confusing is that only so many bytes of code are included in the
index of the search engine. In other words you may have 2000 words on the webpage
but only 200 are put in the index for certain terms.
The index record is a small sample of your site for quick search and retrieval.
This happens no matter how much html or css is on the page.

You can't make the index take more/less terms from your page by using css or tables.


It's dumb, move on and be educated by what I said.

Use tables all you want, but not frames!!!

Frames is what these people have confused with tables because they don't know what
they are talking about.

Malicious Biz 11-03-2008 07:08 PM
only Socialists use tables

CurrentlySober 11-03-2008 07:18 PM
CSS is better than tabels

Cause its easier to spekl

FlexxAeon 11-03-2008 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortie (Post 15000050)
Dude, the search engine gets the webpage by doing a http request.
The server sends the entire webage not a few bytes.

The webpage would have to be a mega byte of code before any software would give
a shit.

What the idiot is confusing is that only so many bytes of code are included in the
index of the search engine. In other words you may have 2000 words on the webpage
but only 200 are put in the index for certain terms.
The index record is a small sample of your site for quick search and retrieval.
This happens no matter how much html or css is on the page.

You can't make the index take more/less terms from your page by using css or tables.


It's dumb, move on and be educated by what I said.

Use tables all you want, but not frames!!!

Frames is what these people have confused with tables because they don't know what
they are talking about.
index = what SE's search, not the actual interweb.....or???

but fuck it. you're right. you win.

i r edumacated :upsidedow


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