yeah Bush was firm on his stands too, see where that got us. Flexibility is not a liability. I appreaicate a guy who can lsiten to what the otehside says take into consideration and maybe he sees that the other side may have a point or too and adjust his view accordingly. You see where having someone totally rigid, not willing to give an inch or hear the other side and having the "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude has led us to.

Not sure if other caught this but McCain said Palin's baby had Autism, when it's down's syndrome..kinda shows you how much he really knows his VP pick.

More like an old man trying to make a joke and Obama diving for a glass of water....

That's one way to look at it.

The way I look at it is they've been getting away with underpaying their workers for decades and now the tide will turn.

I agree you can't do it all in one year, too much of a shock, but we can raise it $1 per hour per year until it's the inflation adjusted equivalent of what minimum wage was in the 1960's (today would be like 9.50 an hour).

How is it that the value of a CEO has gone up 100 fold in the past 10-15 years but the workers at the bottom aren't worth anymore at all?
Obviously I agree that a CEO is more valuable, but he's not 100 times more valuable than he was in 1995. The money is there for higher wages, it's just all gone to the folks at the top. :2 cents:

I could maybe go along with the tax break if it were temporary. If it existed only during the 2 or 3 years the wage was increased substantially, and then expired when the wage stabilized and was tacked to inflation.
Otherwise, you're really back to the government subsidizing low wages again.

Because I don't want the GOP to run it for 20 years. I want the Democrats to get back to who they were and back to being more centrist instead of going even further left like they have been doing do the past 8 years. And I feel McCain with a democratic house will go back to being the center right guy that he was until he ran for this office.

Either way in the times we have now, there is no way either of these guys gets a 2nd term.

He really stepped on his dick when talking abour roe v wade.

He said he would NOT use a litmus test such as basing his decision on whether or not a judge was for or against roe v wade.

Then he wrapped up his comment by saying that he was confident that any judge even NOMINATED would already share his view on roe v wade. WTF, what a bullshit thing to say and do. I hope there were not too many people letting that zoom over their heads.

I wont use a litmus test (but anyone nominated would already be put through that test prior to nomination).

Gotcha John. Gotcha.

I wondered about that each time he made reference to her knowing so much about autism. I personally don't know how he kept a straight face when he answered the question as to her ability to be president.

I think that was McCain's best debate showing. I don't think it was near good enough to do him any good. He sounded like a child on the playground, saying that the Wallace comparisons had not be repudiated, when I read the statement from Obama's camp saying the remarks were inappropriate. I'm not sure what more McCain expected him Obama to do about comments he, nor anyone associated with his campaign made.

I watched it on cnnhd, and it was split screen nearly the entire time. I try to overlook the certain..stiffness?...that McCain has around his mouth, as I believe I've read that that is due to the skin cancer he has had.

But there was no overlooking the disrespectful huffing, puffing, and stuff that bordered on eye rolling when Obama spoke.

To my ears, he as much as said he would not appoint a Supreme Court justice who was in favor of Roe v Wade. That combined with his dismissal of abortion when the mother's health is in danger will cost him with women.

He lost this one when he named that zealot nutcase as his VP.

A nice thought except the grunt work no one wants to do is that way for a reason. How can you justify the value of that work outweighs the fact that the people most qualified to perform it are the ones that decided a long time ago that they weren't interested in pursuing the criteria necessary to attain other more interesting/acceptable employment?

The fact is, we have bred a population of people who believe they are really worth more than they are. Natural Selection has been thrown out the door and replaced by the US Welfare System (in its many forms and disguises), of which minimum wage and it's discussion is a huge part.

The last time I personally cared about minimum wage was in 1986 when I was 14 (what, it was $2/hr?). I was happy to get it then. By the time I was 18, minimum wage was like $3.25/hr and I was going to college and making $8/hr. I worked and took jobs that paid me more so I could get qualifications to make more money. Where the fuck do all these people that expect handouts and protections come from? Who taught them core values that exclude doing better for yourself everyday? This seriously perplexes me and makes me wonder where we are going as a nation.

I get the feeling that the assumption was made McCain might win, but it was doubtful. Someone needed to be a fall guy. So many interesting things happening during the campaign period.

For all those that are conspiracy theorists, how's this one sound??? The Dems get their supermajorities, they win the White House, they get more liberal judges appointed..... and then everything goes to shit (by unnatural forces).. and who's to blame??? Well the Dems of course. They didn't do anything to stop it.

Welcome the conservatives and the One World Gov't, right?

The biggest reason I can't vote for Obama is that one party in power thing. There's plenty of other things I disagree with him about, but I also have to say some of his thoughts are close enough to the middle that I find acceptability in them.

I just can't fathom one party having ALL the power in the country. Dems or Republicans. Absolute power corrupts absolutely as they say. The checks and balances in this country are the most genius part of the entire government setup by the founders.

I also dont like the notion of one party in power. We had that with Bush for 6 freaking years. The worst 6 I can remember :(

I've often said the american voter is like the student driver. Here we go overcorrecting. But blame the term lengths too, because so much outrage over the GOP was expressed in 06, and it's still happening now in 08. If Pelosi had the guts to have impeached, it'd be very different right now. Not that that would have been a good move, I'm just saying it would have alleviated some of the pressure.

Can't fathom? That's what we had from 2001-2007. Unlike Bush I think McCain could work with the democrats. Hopefully if he wins this neo-con crap he's been pulling so he can't get the republican base is just an act and once he's in charge he goes back to being the McCain of 2000. He does have some stupid ideas though and contridictions.

I wonder if he is really so immature that he can't keep his emotions in check and sit there respectfully, or if he's just playing to the part of his support base which gets off on that kind of shit.

Polls everywhere are pretty much showing that Obama won.......

Body Language 101.

People telling lies will often blink like crazy.

McCain blinked way too much to be telling the truth last night. http://www.congratstothewinners.com/

I think that's more wishful thinking on your part (Hillary in 2012) than anything based in reality.

The general nature of the business cycle suggests that the economy will be growing at a healthy rate in 2012. Presidents running for reelection with a strong economy rarely lose.

The last two presidents to only serve one term were running for reelection during a recession. :2 cents:

If Barrack loses it will be because the Democrats went power hungry with the zero checks and balances for the first 2 years so no matter what Hillary can't run in 2012 and win. Obama is the incumbent to start with.

If its MCain he will be 4 years older and be the president of economy that will be rough on the country for his first couple years. No way at 76/77 he gets a 2nd term.

I disagree with your premise that people at the bottom of the income scale made a conscious decision to not pursue better jobs or careers....but, that's not the reason for a minimum wage.

We have a system in which it is better for the overall stability of the economy to have at least 4% of people who want a job unemployed. If unemployment drops below that rate, the powers that be do everything in their power to slow down the economy, because too low of an unemployment rate puts upward pressure on wages, and can become highly inflationary.
This happened in the late 1990's when Greenspan raised rates 17 consecutive times.

We learned in the 1970's that the inflation toothpaste is really difficult to put back in the tube once it gets started, so we create a surplus of "human capital" to prevent inflation from getting out of control.

Now that your eyes have glazed over, I'll get to the point. Since the powers that be create a constant surplus of workers, it's impossible for wages at the bottom to be controlled by supply and demand. There's always an excess of supply, so those wages would always drop if allowed to go unchecked.

IF you're going to have a system like this, then it also needs to include a floor for wages, since the regular rules of supply and demand don't apply. That's why we have a minimum wage and also why it should be set at or above the poverty level.

Well I agree about McCain because of his age.....BUT, the democrats seemed to overreach during Clinton's first term, and they paid for it in the midterm elections....but Clinton used that to his advantage to win a 2nd term.

Barack's fate isn't tied to that of congressional democrats in 2012. In the oval office, you make your own luck.

FWIW, Barack will have alot more control over congressional democrats than Clinton did, because Clinton never won a majority of the popular vote and never had that "mandate".

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