Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 14870629)

If they implement a universal healthcare policy it doesn't mean the US is a socialist country. You don't consider Canada, Australia, or England socialist countries do you? That's not socialism. Socialism is much more extreme.

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 14868439)

your freedom already has been taken away after 9/11

Originally Posted by sherm (Post 14870231)

Funny thing is that any of us assume that any 1 man can make things better: Be it McCain, Obama, Paul, Richard Simmons, Chuck Norris or Mr. T. The truth is that it will take 15-20 years for us just to patch up the damage that was done in the last 8.

That is the truth, my friends (see what I did there?). Anybody that gets elected will have all kinds of finger pointing, whether or not he holds his promises or not. There's just too much of a shit-storm to flush in 4 years.

Originally Posted by pigman (Post 14870477)

The US will become a socialist country in the end.

Originally Posted by Axeman (Post 14880766)

Sooner than you think if Obama is elected and the senate gets to 58 seats or great which then prevents them from being fillibustered by the right.

The Democrats will have 2 years to do anything they damn well please without a single cross over vote from the right to help pass things.

You think you are seeing socialism now, just wait and see what it looks like next Christmas when the house, senate and presidency are all democrats with ZERO chance for checks and balances.

All aboard the Pelosi and Reid express, its going to be a wild socialist ride.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 14881095)

Please tell me how capitalism didn't cause the mess we're in and will fix the problem? I love capitalism but to say the democrats are socialist is nothing but old propaganda. Welfare is socialism? God forbid we help the homeless. and those damn disabled people, they should be working for a living!

Originally Posted by Axeman (Post 14881213)

You had the government step in and write laws that forced these institutions to give out home loans to people that had no business getting them in an effort to drive up home ownerships in the country. That sparked off this whole mess in the late 90's

Originally Posted by sherm (Post 14870231)

Funny thing is that any of us assume that any 1 man can make things better: Be it McCain, Obama, Paul, Richard Simmons, Chuck Norris or Mr. T. The truth is that it will take 15-20 years for us just to patch up the damage that was done in the last 8.

That is the truth, my friends (see what I did there?). Anybody that gets elected will have all kinds of finger pointing, whether or not he holds his promises or not. There's just too much of a shit-storm to flush in 4 years.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 14881095)

Please tell me how capitalism didn't cause the mess we're in and will fix the problem? I love capitalism but to say the democrats are socialist is nothing but old propaganda. Welfare is socialism? God forbid we help the homeless. and those damn disabled people, they should be working for a living!

Originally Posted by KillerK (Post 14882438)

Sorry but some many people on welfare are not on it for anything other then they are lazy as shit. Sure it helps some people but nowhere near what it should.

Originally Posted by lamerhooD (Post 14868612)

I say fuck both of them. The only guy that made any sense was Ron Paul. He was going to actually cut Government programs, not just talk about it. And unlike Obama and McCain, he talked about those programs he was going to cut. All they can offer is "uhh, well, there will be some cuts...uhhh, where, we'll have to go from the bottom up". And then McCain "I propose freezing spending all across the board. ha! but we will leave, this this and this." And it seems like each debate, he adds more that we will leave in. Before it was just veteran affairs now it's like 3 new things.

This really was our last hope to stop the Government spending, stop the big Government programs, and we said he's an "isolationist" and a "cook". Well, we get what we deserve.

I'm sure there are a lot of you out there who really liked Paul, this isn't to you.

You can retort back with "Well, it wasn't practical. Paul wasn't practical". What IS practical to you, then?

:2 cents:

Originally Posted by sherm (Post 14870231)

Funny thing is that any of us assume that any 1 man can make things better: Be it McCain, Obama, Paul, Richard Simmons, Chuck Norris or Mr. T. The truth is that it will take 15-20 years for us just to patch up the damage that was done in the last 8.

That is the truth, my friends (see what I did there?). Anybody that gets elected will have all kinds of finger pointing, whether or not he holds his promises or not. There's just too much of a shit-storm to flush in 4 years.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 14881682)

I totally agree with that but these companies wanted these people. Its what made housing prices rise and what made their stock rise. All built on the premise that if they foreclosed, someone else would come in and fill the gap but suddenly gaps weren't being filled and they were losing money instead of gaining.

Originally Posted by Axeman (Post 14883999)

Which is partly true, everyone got drunk of the excess once it started. However the point is it wouldn't have started if it wasn't for Clinton (who I love) pushing to increase home ownerships and forcing the institutions to relax their rules and rates to get people in. Government intervention produced more buyers which inflated the market when it was built on an unstable premise.

Once it started the institutions said we have to do it might as well milk it. Ridiculous but what they did so they accepted as many as could since they knew by the time the mortgages were closed, they would have already packaged and sold that loan off to another company.

Blame goes everywhere on this, but my point is it was Government intervention in a system that it had no place being that sparked it. And while it was a noble cause to try and get everyone into a home they own it is a socialist attitude. There will always be the haves and the have nots in societies, and its impossible to try and have everyone the haves.

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 14868426)

Last night I heard the REPUBLICAN candidate saying that we should nationalize mortgages, and more government control of healthcare. :(

This election does not include a republican. McCain is basically mouthing a watered-down version of the same stuff that the Dems are proposing.

This is not a contest between someone on the right, and someone on the left. It is a contest between someone on the middle left, and someone on the far left.

It's simply a matter of degree.

I'm still going to vote for McCain, as the lessor of two evils, but I will do so with a heavy sinking heart.

Part of me actually wishes that Obama DOES win. Vino and I would be out of here in a year, and we could wave as the country goes to socialist crap. Most of my friends live offshore at this point already.

It's a shame, and I love my country, (I fought for it for god's sake), but I'm not going to wait around here forever. Frankly, even if Obama loses, I can see the writing on the wall. This place is going more and more left wing, with government taking over more and more of it, while convincing people that they all need to be taken care of and controlled like children. It's enough to make me cry sometimes. :( The thing that made this country great and different and the world power that it has become is that people were self reliant, self driven, free to pursue goals in a capitalist, free market economy. Now it's going to turn into a mediocre nanny state with a nicely even low standard of living....

The popular mainstream news media has become so openly left-biased that the whole thing is becoming a joke. The government screws up by interfering with banks risk-management practices for populist political gain, then turns around and blames the private sector for the problem when it falls apart and then moves in to take control.... The whole country seems to be turning into sheep with very short term memories and it's just depressing to watch.

:disgust