Originally Posted by Pete-KT (Post 14854539)

So you rant and not name names, wow grow a pair already, whats the point of your thread of you dont tell us who it is?

Originally Posted by A1R3K (Post 14854546)

like it or not, i'm right.

:2 cents:

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 14854581)

This past summer my wife and I ate out with some friends and we picked up the tab. The bill was like $50, which we paid on the credit card, and we left a $15 tip - in cash. A few days later we discovered that our card got charged for $65.00..... Thus, we left a $30 tip on a $50 bill.

I could care less about $15 or even $30, but the concept of someone charging my card an amount that I didn't agree to scares the crap out of me.

No wonder why our sales our down - a handful of people are jacking off surfers left and right.

Originally Posted by avalanche (Post 14853524)

So a few weeks ago I came across a low-cost join newtwork of sites of $x.xx per month. The site had no increased rebill price, it was just $x.xx per month flat and I was curious so I joined to see if it was a dvd site, all feeds, etc. I knew the join would be full of semi-hidden cross-sales so I was careful to uncheck everything and make sure there were no automatic cross-sales which there weren't.

I cancelled a few days later to make sure and yes there were pre-checked joins on the cancel page, but after checking my account about 2 weeks later I'm fucking floored to say the least.

I have now had 3 additional $1.00 charges for memberships and 2 $39.97 memberships charged for a grand total of 5 other sites. The $39.97 memberships were charged the same day as the $1.00 so they weren't even rebills, but separate sites. 2 of the $1.00 and 1 of the $39.97 were a week or so after the join which pissed me off, but I dealt with it. Now almost a full week or so later I get another $1.00 and $39.97 charge and the entire boat is now becoming a charge back. For a small $x.xx join I've spent over $80 on sites I didn't want.

This is fucking ridiculous. If being in the business I can't even get a clean join, I can only imagine how surfers are getting fucked.

And, one, no I won't name the program/site as this is something we all know is happening and isn't meant to be a public flogging. And, two, yes maybe I'm an idiot and I just missed a cross-sale on the join or cancel page somehow, but that still proves the point that this is wrong.

This is sad, really fucking sad that this is how people build their business. Enough said...

Originally Posted by amacontent (Post 14854409)

Thats why DVDS will never die. Consumer knows what hes gettoing and pays once to get it

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn (Post 14854590)

You probably missed the small print that said 18% gratuity automatically added to parties over four people or something to that effect. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by amacontent (Post 14854409)

Thats why DVDS will never die. Consumer knows what hes gettoing and pays once to get it

Originally Posted by Hardcore J (Post 14854745)

Please contact me on ICQ - As stated all of our crosses are non-hidden, if you canceled the ones you left checked I don't see how you could possibly have been charged and I'd like to look into this a bit further.

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 14854862)

If all the boxes were unchecked, is it really fair to call it a cross sale? Isn't that just running credit cards (i.e. fraud)? I mean if there is nothing that tell you that you will be billed for this stuff, it's just straight theft, not a cross-sale.

There is a huge difference in a cross-sale that I can unclick and one that isn't shown to the surfer.

Originally Posted by Dennis Rodman (Post 14854098)

Not for nothing, but metalcash has always been considered shady in my book. I think I did a little promotion back in 04 or some shit, but the conversions blew goats so I dumped them... with tagetted text links. That's all i need to see and kaput.

Hopefully they see this thread and fix their ways. And yes, this is their business model. Quick buck, fuck everyone. Here is a good example:

You join say 123brit website - great... $1.23 per month billed in 30 day intervals... but you get to the 2nd join page and there are the prechecked sells...

At the bottom of the page? Asterisks.... what do they say?

* Free Three Day Membership rebills at Thirty Nine Dollars Thirty Seven Cents if not cancelled
** Free Three Day Membership rebills at Thirty Seven Dollars Nineteen Cents if not cancelled

in just about size 6 verdana font. Small, but still there. There is no way in hell a program would charge a dollar fucking twenty three for a monthly if they didn't think they were getting Joe VisaHolder to not notice his shit and let it rebill.

By the way? The sites that they Xsell to are from TrafficGigs... coincidence?

Both garbage programs IMO

You reap what you sow

Originally Posted by Hardcore J (Post 14854873)

As stated above, there are no crosses that you can't unclick anywhere during our join - cancel process.

Originally Posted by Sausage (Post 14854973)

Well I would to say the Op's experiences seem to be different.

I have heard of this kinda fraud going on, and its good to identify another company to avoid :)

Originally Posted by Hardcore J (Post 14855055)

Avalanche said "...yes maybe I'm an idiot and I just missed a cross-sale on the join or cancel page somehow"

From where I stand he obviously forgot to uncheck something a long the line.

Originally Posted by Hardcore J (Post 14855055)

Avalanche said "...yes maybe I'm an idiot and I just missed a cross-sale on the join or cancel page somehow"

From where I stand he obviously forgot to uncheck something a long the line.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 14854707)

No, I didn't miss jack shit. I paid gratuity. I paid gratuity cash. I signed off allowing them to charge me $50 - Not anything more. What they did was illegal.

I signed the bill, put in the amount $50, put in $0 for the tip, and wrote the final charge as $50. Then I left a tip in cash. I didn't say "$50 and what ever else you decide to charge me".

They can loose their Visa account for shit like this.

Originally Posted by Tempest (Post 14854592)

File a complaint with the FTC for fraud etc.

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn (Post 14855122)

I believe you, but a lot of restaurants do have that written on their bills, and in that case even if you filled out $0 tip and wrote in a total of $50, and even if you left cash on the table for a tip they would be within their right to add in the 18% gratuity if your party exceeded whatever it says on the bill, typically four or more people.

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn (Post 14855122)

I believe you, but a lot of restaurants do have that written on their bills, and in that case even if you filled out $0 tip and wrote in a total of $50, and even if you left cash on the table for a tip they would be within their right to add in the 18% gratuity if your party exceeded whatever it says on the bill, typically four or more people.

Originally Posted by Hardcore J (Post 14854843)

Okay guys.. here's where it stands right now...

About 10 days ago I ran 6 live (real) credit cards and took all the crosses from the companies I deal with, these all had to be canceled one by one.

I did this for several reasons:
1) To check that every cross partner would accept sales correctly
2) To make sure that nothing was being piggy backed onto joins when I send out
3) To make sure that I could cancel every join reasonably easy

All of my tests were successful and I was able to cancel crosses from every company I deal with easily, and also received and email notice from each sponsor about each new membership.

I haven't talked to Avalanche yet, but there must be some explanation for how this happened. After I talk with him I will replicate his join process and see if I can make the charges that he saw happen on my own card(s).

I understand that many of you are upset to hear this, but I'd like to ask that you don't make a final judgement until I can talk to Avalanche...

Thanks guys!

Originally Posted by Gambrinus (Post 14855116)

Jesus, this is some shady shit.

http://i37.tinypic.com/izrint.jpg

Visa seriously needs to clamp down on this shit. How do you scumbags sleep at night?

Originally Posted by Mr. Cool Ice (Post 14855297)

You mean how do we ALL sleep by helping porn addicts feed their addiction and possibly ruin families and lives? Dunno. Look in the mirror and ask yourself that.

Putting a few x-sales under the submit button is the least of these guys worries. Besides, go check all these join pages with a larger resolution, you CAN see these in most cases. It's only around 37% I was checking into that can't see them. Do a browser search and see what people are using. The majority of people CAN see the x-sales.

Now excuse me while I go to sleep like a baby. I'm sure as hell not gonna lose any of it over porn addicts.

Originally Posted by After Shock Media (Post 14855152)

That can end up biting us all in the ass. You know if we can not self regulate they will regulate for us and with a heavy hand.



FOUR? I have not seen anything under parties of 7-8 unless it was some hotel restaurant. If I even saw a mandatory tip for 4 at a non hotel place I would leave right then.

Now I know if they have it written somewhere, typically the menu. As you need to know this before you order that they can apply the charge for the mandatory tip (which is BS anyways) for larger parties even if you write 0.00 on the tip line on the receipt legally. Oddly if you do leave another tip they often piggyback the fucker anyways and apparently they can but I feel it is shady as hell.

Then again I also got nabbed hard on a mandatory tip because not only did they add a mandatory 20% to the bill on fucking piss poor service. They also took the tip from two fairly expensive bottles of wine ordered off the wine list that each were a few hundred. Forced tipping even on piss poor service is one thing, adding like a buck per drink is another, but ass fucking someone the 20% also on about 600.00 in wine charges is fucking beyond wrong.

Originally Posted by After Shock Media (Post 14855152)

That can end up biting us all in the ass. You know if we can not self regulate they will regulate for us and with a heavy hand.

Originally Posted by avalanche (Post 14853524)

And, one, no I won't name the program/site as this is something we all know is happening and isn't meant to be a public flogging. And, two, yes maybe I'm an idiot and I just missed a cross-sale on the join or cancel page somehow, but that still proves the point that this is wrong.

Originally Posted by avalanche (Post 14854003)

Yes, the program is MetalCash and their $1.23 sites. My post wasn't about flogging a program or giving them more attention then they need. The point was to re-ignite a topic we should all look at including ourselves and the sites we promote. We're all hypocrits to an extent and need to decide if the future of this industry is important for us to salvage or say fuck it and burn it down.

This may not be their business plan and it may not be others, but it's a slippery slope and maybe we ALL need to look at what we're doing, today, not tomorrow, and decide what's right!

Originally Posted by Mr. Cool Ice (Post 14855297)

You mean how do we ALL sleep by helping porn addicts feed their addiction and possibly ruin families and lives? Dunno. Look in the mirror and ask yourself that.

Originally Posted by Mr. Cool Ice (Post 14855297)

You mean how do we ALL sleep by helping porn addicts feed their addiction and possibly ruin families and lives? Dunno. Look in the mirror and ask yourself that.

Putting a few x-sales under the submit button is the least of these guys worries. Besides, go check all these join pages with a larger resolution, you CAN see these in most cases. It's only around 37% I was checking into that can't see them. Do a browser search and see what people are using. The majority of people CAN see the x-sales.

Now excuse me while I go to sleep like a baby. I'm sure as hell not gonna lose any of it over porn addicts.

Originally Posted by grumpy (Post 14854017)

not cause of your input. That red shit is just annoying

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 14854707)

No, I didn't miss jack shit. I paid gratuity. I paid gratuity cash. I signed off allowing them to charge me $50 - Not anything more. What they did was illegal.

I signed the bill, put in the amount $50, put in $0 for the tip, and wrote the final charge as $50. Then I left a tip in cash. I didn't say "$50 and what ever else you decide to charge me".

They can loose their Visa account for shit like this.