What is the "real" religion? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

DarkJedi · 11-01-2002, 12:41 AM

religions = suck
true teachings = rule

quiet · 11-01-2002, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pimplink

I see you've read Nietzche's "Beyond Good and Evil" Right on.

i've read everything by Nietzsche. i minored in Philosophy, with a strong interest in existentialism. i'll be starting a Master's (focused on the splintering of identity in relation to the internet) next fall...

Kris · 11-01-2002, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pimplink
Not really. Buddhism teaches the 4 noble truths. And one of these key "truths" is that freedom from attachments frees one from suffering. How is attachment dissolved in a person? Through renunciation--I doubt that "doing what the fuck you want" fits in with renunciation.

the main point for the buddhist is the eight fold path. the 4 noble truths are a basis, then the six realms(which a few people here could read), then the eight fold path, which is the main "goal"

Joe Sixpack · 11-01-2002, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkJedi
religions = suck
true teachings = rule

Huh?

What's a true teaching?

pimplink · 11-01-2002, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kris

the main point for the buddhist is the eight fold path. the 4 noble truths are a basis, then the six realms(which a few people here could read), then the eight fold path, which is the main "goal"

I think we're in agreement. Interesting how Buddhism labels some of its key tenets in terms of numbers. ie., the 4 Friends, the 5 hindrances, etc.

Kris · 11-01-2002, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet
i've read everything by Nietzsche. i minored in Philosophy, with a strong interest in existentialism. i'll be starting a Master's (focused on the splintering of identity in relation to the internet) next fall...

i have a question for you off this topic... knowing that you minored in phil. got me!!! what do you think of the idea of an alternative universe(or multiples)?? what about chomsky's rules of lit? i took a philosophy class last spring and the guy drove me crazy with his 'nothing talk'(what we called it)... i'm really interested as to what you think

Kris · 11-01-2002, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pimplink
I think we're in agreement. Interesting how Buddhism labels some of its key tenets in terms of numbers. ie., the 4 Friends, the 5 hindrances, etc.

wasn't meaning to say we were in opposition... sorry, just clarifying

TDF · 11-01-2002, 12:57 AM

church of TGP..converts souls at an amazing 1:75!!

DarkJedi · 11-01-2002, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack

Huh?

What's a true teaching?

DzogChen is. The highest teaching in buddism tradition.

UnseenWorld · 11-01-2002, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

i don't agree with the idea of absolute right and wrong. i'm a existential post-modernist. wheeee.

but i certainly don't feel like getting into it here. don't feel like arguing for days/weeks on terms and definitions - before an argument is even started...

Unfortunately, since you didn't keep your mouth shut (figuratively), your desire not to debate seems rather insincere. Ethics and aesthetics are philosophical siblings: both are "value theory." Let's take an easy to understand example from aesthetics. If there is an absolute aesthetic at work, it makes the idea of an absolute ethic more plausible.

A researcher for Psychology Today wanted to do a study to show that aesthetic judgments are merely culture-bound and not based on anything objective.

So, he tried to prove the opposite. The problem turned out to be: he succeeded (in proving the opposite). Here's how it worked:

He identified a bunch of different and distinct cultural groups and then through research discovered a master in each group. The art forms were varied: a mask-maker from Africa, a painter from New York, a sculptor from Fiji, a sword-maker from Japan, and so on (these are made-up examples, because I read this article years ago).

He had each master submit two example of the art form he worked in. One was to be a masterpiece, the other to be a competent but fairly pedestrial example.

Then it gets interesting: He asked each artist to look at all of the examples offered by the other artists and to decide which one was the masterpiece and which one was just a passably good example.

He was shocked to discover absolute unanimity across cultural lines. I.e., the sword-maker from Japan could tell which painting was best, the painter could tell which African mask was best, and so on down the line.

The conclusion appears inescapable: in the arts, an absolute seems to be at work. Not God, perhaps, but something along the line of a platonic form maybe. Perhaps the result was mere coincidence, and I'd love to know if anyone has since tried to duplicate it.

The one thing I can tell you as someone who, at 55, has been an artist and made a living from aesthetical enterprises for his entire life is this: It doesn't surprise me at all. I find that if someone has good taste in photography, he/she probably has good taste in everything from painting to writing to music. Clearly, something crosses not only cultural lines, but the various media as well.

How does this relate to ethics? In ethics, it seems something similar is at work. Maybe it's biological (ingrained in us through evolution and heredity) or maybe it's due to some metaphysical reality of some sort. The one thing I can't seem to deny is that we all believe that some things are not just wrong in a relative way, but are REALLY wrong, and in that feeling, the word REALLY reveals that we are referring to some sort of REALITY and not merely an opinion.

UnseenWorld · 11-01-2002, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kris

the main point for the buddhist is the eight fold path. the 4 noble truths are a basis, then the six realms(which a few people here could read), then the eight fold path, which is the main "goal"

No, the goal for buddhism is release from the cycle of birth-death-rebirth, just as in Hinduism (it's parent religion). Gautama taught that unhappiness comes from craving or desire, and so buddhism works toward releasing us from our cravings and desires.

Wicked people are invariably people who want something badly. Of course, as buddhism spread it has evolved (or become corrupted, if you prefer) by the addition of quasi-deities and all kinds of apocryphal theological acretions, but basically it is about releasing us from craving. At its most extreme, Zen, the idea is to even release us from the desire to be released!

quiet · 11-01-2002, 01:13 AM

muslims crash a plane into some office buildings.

the west believe it is 'evil', and those who took part are cowards.

the middle east/east believe it is 'good' and those that took part are heros.

keep my mouth shut? riiight. i'll speak about anything, when ever i feel like it - or not speak at all, when ever i feel like it.

Quote:

I find that if someone has good taste in photography, he/she probably has good taste in everything from painting to writing to music.

lol

Kris · 11-01-2002, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnseenWorld
No, the goal for buddhism is release from the cycle of birth-death-rebirth, just as in Hinduism (it's parent religion). Gautama taught that unhappiness comes from craving or desire, and so buddhism works toward releasing us from our cravings and desires.

Wicked people are invariably people who want something badly. Of course, as buddhism spread it has evolved (or become corrupted, if you prefer) by the addition of quasi-deities and all kinds of apocryphal theological acretions, but basically it is about releasing us from craving. At its most extreme, Zen, the idea is to even release us from the desire to be released!

read about what i wrote and you'll see what i talked about is the same as what you are talking about... yes, i know Hindu is the parent religion. are you saying what i wrote was corrupted??

MoneyWorks · 11-01-2002, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack
Nobody is right. All religion is a bunch of horseshit.

Religion has always been a tool of the ruling class to control the masses.

true

Joe Sixpack · 11-01-2002, 01:34 AM

There is only one TRUE religion:

BAGISM

MORE ON BAGISM

jollyperv · 11-01-2002, 03:44 AM

Anal Hobbitism is the true path to enlightenment.

redshift · 11-01-2002, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnseenWorld

No, the goal for buddhism is release from the cycle of birth-death-rebirth, just as in Hinduism (it's parent religion). Gautama taught that unhappiness comes from craving or desire, and so buddhism works toward releasing us from our cravings and desires.

Wicked people are invariably people who want something badly. Of course, as buddhism spread it has evolved (or become corrupted, if you prefer) by the addition of quasi-deities and all kinds of apocryphal theological acretions, but basically it is about releasing us from craving. At its most extreme, Zen, the idea is to even release us from the desire to be released!

Interesting - I'll have to research buddhism - I always thought they just worshiped that fat dude

Sunshine McGillicutty · 11-01-2002, 09:09 AM

I think Buddhism is the best religion in terms of diagnosing why people have problems, insecurities and unhappiness and then prescribing various practices to resolve them.

It also has the advantage of being portable to the secular world. You can strip the practices.. ie. forms of vipassana & concentration meditation.. of the cultural superstitions that have accreted to them.

UnseenWorld · 11-01-2002, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet
muslims crash a plane into some office buildings.

the west believe it is 'evil', and those who took part are cowards.

the middle east/east believe it is 'good' and those that took part are heros.

keep my mouth shut? riiight. i'll speak about anything, when ever i feel like it - or not speak at all, when ever i feel like it.

lol

Perhaps every event, even the one on 9/11 has a good aspect from one perspective but is bad from another, and people rather than seeing all aspects dwell on just one, the way a man may meet a women who is a fun companion, a good cook, and has a big butt, but all he can see is her butt.

I know it's hard to imagine a positive side to 9/11 (certainly for those directly involved!), but the Nazi attempt to exterminate the Jews, for example, was horrendous, who knows if in the long run the awareness it brought to the world of the downside of blind patriotism, militarism, jingoism, racial and ethnic hatred, it might turn out that good triumphs in the end.

Mad King Ludwig of Bavaria was a despot with a fetish for castle building. He oppressed and taxed his people heavily, which wasn't good. However, now we have Schloss Neuschwannstein, surely one of the the most beautiful edifices in the world, which is there for everyone to enjoy, and so what are we to say?

There seems to be no such thing as an unmixed blessing, and the converse seems true as well.

gigi · 11-01-2002, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redshift

what about Wicca - No God

Yes there is, in fact there are many...but two primary ones, the God and the Goddess. You can't have one without the other. Like light and dark, masculine and feminine, you can't have one without the other. BUT, there is no such thing as the devil according to Wiccans.

By far the best theological online resource I have found is:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/

It is one of the most non-biased information I have found thus far.

If you are truly intrigued by Theology, here's the links to specific religions and paths:

Wicca
Buddhism
Christianity
Hinduism
Islam
Judaism

Those are most of the 'mainstream' ones....but they have pretty much all religions covered there.

(I just noticed that they are affected by the new Visa regs as well....they are asking for donations on the page for the new fee...interesting)

redshift · 11-01-2002, 03:13 PM

thnks - thats a very interesting website

Enchantress · 11-01-2002, 03:44 PM

http://www.subgenius.com/

The church of the subgenius is the only way.

redshift · 11-01-2002, 03:53 PM

well damn looks like everyone out there has a church
maybe I'll start my own "the sacred order of Redshift"

wadda think

Lane · 11-01-2002, 03:58 PM

i cant accept our existence is a coincidence, that makes me believe..

<IMX> · 11-01-2002, 04:03 PM

You guys are confused, obviously you have never read one of these:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0085/0085_01.asp

redshift · 11-01-2002, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lane
i cant accept our existence is a coincidence, that makes me believe..

Believe in what is the question

11-01-2002, 12:57 AM	#58
TDF Triple OG nigga on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in the BP4L family compound Posts: 27,296	church of TGP..converts souls at an amazing 1:75!! __________________ Sig heil

11-01-2002, 01:34 AM	#65
Joe Sixpack So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 3,793	There is only one TRUE religion: BAGISM MORE ON BAGISM Last edited by Joe Sixpack; 11-01-2002 at 01:39 AM..

11-01-2002, 03:58 PM	#74
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	i cant accept our existence is a coincidence, that makes me believe.. __________________

11-01-2002, 04:03 PM	#75
<IMX> Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,728	You guys are confused, obviously you have never read one of these: http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0085/0085_01.asp __________________ $$$ Check out NICHE PAY the leader of Micro Niche Sites! They offer $1 Trials! $$$ $$$ Check out 10 FREE TRIAL SALES equals 1 FREE LAP TOP ! $$$

11-01-2002, 12:41 AM	#51
DarkJedi No Refunds Issued. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: GFY Posts: 28,300	religions = suck true teachings = rule

11-01-2002, 03:44 AM	#66
jollyperv Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 3,927	Anal Hobbitism is the true path to enlightenment.

11-01-2002, 09:09 AM	#68
Sunshine McGillicutty So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: California Posts: 475	I think Buddhism is the best religion in terms of diagnosing why people have problems, insecurities and unhappiness and then prescribing various practices to resolve them. It also has the advantage of being portable to the secular world. You can strip the practices.. ie. forms of vipassana & concentration meditation.. of the cultural superstitions that have accreted to them.

11-01-2002, 03:13 PM	#71
redshift Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: anus fuckin' yo mama Posts: 1,044	thnks - thats a very interesting website

11-01-2002, 03:44 PM	#72
Enchantress Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Wa. U.S.A Posts: 121	http://www.subgenius.com/ The church of the subgenius is the only way.

11-01-2002, 03:53 PM	#73
redshift Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: anus fuckin' yo mama Posts: 1,044	well damn looks like everyone out there has a church maybe I'll start my own "the sacred order of Redshift" wadda think