Democrats look for little/no oversight and fascist boards in bailouts

[IllTestYourGirls]

"The 44-page Senate proposal, pulled together by Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut and the chairman of the banking committee, would require the Treasury to run the rescue plan through a new "Office of Financial Stability" to be headed by an assistant treasury secretary. It would also establish an "Emergency Oversight Board" to monitor the bailout effort, made up of the Fed Chairman; the chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation; the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission; and two non-government employees with "financial expertise" in the public and private sectors, one each appointed by the majority and minority leadership in Congress."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/bu...xyifNXv010gBFA

Way to lead us dems! That and they are about to pass the bill that includes NO OVERSIGHT.

[After Shock Media]

They are damned if they pass it and damned if they do not.

[Fletch XXX]

just sit back and take the cock in the ass like a winner

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

just sit back and take the cock in the ass like a winner

You forgot to put Obama's and Dodds head on there..(if you made it lol)

[Fletch XXX]

yeah i didnt know who else to add last night and it was late,... couldve added a bunch in retrospect

[cykoe6]

It is ironic that Dodd is the point man on this considering he is the person who bears the most responsibility for this whole mess.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

It is ironic that Dodd is the point man on this considering he is the person who bears the most responsibility for this whole mess.

Well the FED holds all the responsibility. But ya Dodd is right up there on the crock list.

[BlackCrayon]

I hope lots of people end up in jail because of this. Its also pretty short sighted to think they can just throw a bunch of money at it and hope the problem goes away.

[cwd]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

It is ironic that Dodd is the point man on this considering he is the person who bears the most responsibility for this whole mess.

How is that?

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by cwd

How is that?

Dodd who was the Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee was taking sweetheart personal loans from Countrywide Financial at the same time Countrywide was unloading billions in junk sub-prime mortgages onto Fannie and Freddie. Coincidently Dodd helped block legislation in 2005 that would have placed limits on how many mortgages Fannie and Freddie could hold. Had that legislation passed the whole crisis would have been avoided.

[cwd]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Dodd who was the Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee was taking sweetheart personal loans from Countrywide Financial at the same time Countrywide was unloading billions in junk sub-prime mortgages onto Fannie and Freddie. Coincidently Dodd helped block legislation in 2005 that would have placed limits on how many mortgages Fannie and Freddie could hold. Had that legislation passed the whole crisis would have been avoided.

Wow, that is crazy. I had no idea that Dodd alone blocked the only legislation that could have ensured "the whole crisis would have been avoided". Where was Bush and McCain, they should have been railing against Dodd for NOT legislating these private businesses! Now we have a socialized insurance company, mortgage company...at least we don't have socialized medicine.

[yys]

Originally Posted by cwd

Wow, that is crazy. I had no idea that Dodd alone blocked the only legislation that could have ensured "the whole crisis would have been avoided". Where was Bush and McCain, they should have been railing against Dodd for NOT legislating these private businesses! Now we have a socialized insurance company, mortgage company...at least we don't have socialized medicine.

The Bush administration was trying to do something about Fannie and Freddie back in 2003. The Democrats; well, they provided some priceless quotes.

September 11, 2003
New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae
By STEPHEN LABATON

The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.

''There is a general recognition that the supervisory system for housing-related government-sponsored enterprises neither has the tools, nor the stature, to deal effectively with the current size, complexity and importance of these enterprises,'' Treasury Secretary John W. Snow told the House Financial Services Committee in an appearance with Housing Secretary Mel Martinez, who also backed the plan.

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''
Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.
''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said.

Good old Barney has been signing a different tune on TV the past few weeks.

Good piece on bloomberg today about how the Democrats blocked the legislation in 2005. I bet they wished they listened to Greenspan back then.

Greenspan's Warning

The clear gravity of the situation pushed the legislation forward. Some might say the current mess couldn't be foreseen, yet in 2005 Alan Greenspan told Congress how urgent it was for it to act in the clearest possible terms: If Fannie and Freddie ``continue to grow, continue to have the low capital that they have, continue to engage in the dynamic hedging of their portfolios, which they need to do for interest rate risk aversion, they potentially create ever-growing potential systemic risk down the road,'' he said. ``We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk.''

This guy was spot on as we have been witnessing this past week

That such a reckless political stand could have been taken by the Democrats was obscene even then. Wallison wrote at the time: ``It is a classic case of socializing the risk while privatizing the profit. The Democrats and the few Republicans who oppose portfolio limitations could not possibly do so if their constituents understood what they were doing.'

Oh, and there is one little footnote to the story that's worth keeping in mind while Democrats point fingers between now and Nov. 4: Senator John McCain was one of the three cosponsors of S.190, the bill that would have averted this mess.

What was Obama doing?

[Snake Doctor]

Sometimes I get aggravated at all of these idiots who try to rewrite history and stick by their guys and their philosophies even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they're wrong.

Here we've got a guy (who thinks the federal reserve is solely responsible for the great depression btw) starting a thread saying it's the democrats who want no oversight on the bailouts....when we all know that precisely the opposite is true.

Then I remember that almost 40% of the country voted for Herbert Hoover in 1932....so no matter how obvious the facts are to people who think logically....there will always be a significant minority that finds a way to twist the facts and blame the other side for the problems their side caused.

[cwd]

I am confused, if the Republicans were in charge of Congress and the White House back in 2003 and 2005 when all this was going down, how were the Democrats able to block legislation? They were the minority, weren't they?

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Sometimes I get aggravated at all of these idiots who try to rewrite history and stick by their guys and their philosophies even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they're wrong.

Here we've got a guy (who thinks the federal reserve is solely responsible for the great depression btw) starting a thread saying it's the democrats who want no oversight on the bailouts....when we all know that precisely the opposite is true.

Then I remember that almost 40% of the country voted for Herbert Hoover in 1932....so no matter how obvious the facts are to people who think logically....there will always be a significant minority that finds a way to twist the facts and blame the other side for the problems their side caused.

Apparently you never read the link that had the speech of Ben Bernanke saying the FED caused the Great Depression.

How is this bill that Dodd offers oversight? How is it not fascist?

For the record I am no fan of the Republicans either. They share most of the blame.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Sometimes I get aggravated at all of these idiots who try to rewrite history and stick by their guys and their philosophies even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they're wrong.

Here we've got a guy (who thinks the federal reserve is solely responsible for the great depression btw) starting a thread saying it's the democrats who want no oversight on the bailouts....when we all know that precisely the opposite is true.

Then I remember that almost 40% of the country voted for Herbert Hoover in 1932....so no matter how obvious the facts are to people who think logically....there will always be a significant minority that finds a way to twist the facts and blame the other side for the problems their side caused.

isnt it amazing nothing is ever the republicans fault 911,this current crisis. They seem to forget about phil gramm getting deregulation passed and all the reps voting for it. OR that Mccain got 100k in may of 2008 from a freddie mac director.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by tony404

isnt it amazing nothing is ever the republicans fault 911,this current crisis. They seem to forget about phil gramm getting deregulation passed and all the reps voting for it. OR that Mccain got 100k in may of 2008 from a freddie mac director.

Or how Dodd and other democrats got sweetheart deals from Countrywide. They are all to blame.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

yeah i didnt know who else to add last night and it was late,... couldve added a bunch in retrospect

Well you should take "stock holders" off of that, because they aren't getting bailed out, they are getting fucked over worse than the average person. The stock owners get to watch their investment turn to shit and their taxes get to help pay for the bail out the rich CEO's and big busines banks.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Or how Dodd and other democrats got sweetheart deals from Countrywide. They are all to blame.

I will go with they are all whores and to blame its not one sides fault.THe problem is these lifetime politicians it should be 8 yrs and youre out for everybody.

[_Richard_]

i thought the administration put it through congress..

[cwd]

Originally Posted by tony404

I will go with they are all whores and to blame its not one sides fault.THe problem is these lifetime politicians it should be 8 yrs and youre out for everybody.

I like it. It seems like they run just to get elected and then don't do shit so they can get re-elected again and again...unless they get a big bucks offer from one of the major corporations that they supported while in office.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by tony404

I will go with they are all whores and to blame its not one sides fault.THe problem is these lifetime politicians it should be 8 yrs and youre out for everybody.

Look at that we agree! The sky must be falling

[GetSCORECash]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Apparently you never read the link that had the speech of Ben Bernanke saying the FED caused the Great Depression.

Essays on the Great Depression
Ben S. Bernanke
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/6817.html

Bernanke is trying to scare congress to act quickly, while saying to all of us don't worry it's OK, we have it under control.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by crockett

Well you should take "stock holders" off of that, because they aren't getting bailed out, they are getting fucked over worse than the average person. The stock owners get to watch their investment turn to shit and their taxes get to help pay for the bail out the rich CEO's and big busines banks.

on the internet when it comes to political images, facts mean very little.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by SCORE-Cash

Essays on the Great Depression
Ben S. Bernanke
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/6817.html

Bernanke is trying to scare congress to act quickly, while saying to all of us don't worry it's OK, we have it under control.

Yeah that's kind of what the gov't did with the Patriot act and the Iraq war......so for me personally, let the Democrats take their sweet time making sure this is done right and with proper oversight.

The idea that passing the law in two weeks instead of today will cause all of us to become homeless and jobless is flat out ridiculous.
Every executive branch wants to operate without congressional oversight because it would be easier that way....but that's not the way our government is set up and it's about time congress stopped grabbing their ankles for this President.

[NickPapageorgio]

Don't forget, it was actually Clinton who initiated the deregulation of wall street. They are all crooks and we are being fucking robbed folks. Double anal with no lube, that's the best visual I can give.

CALL YOUR FUCKING SENATORS, CALL YOUR FUCKING CONGRESSMEN!

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Yeah that's kind of what the gov't did with the Patriot act and the Iraq war......so for me personally, let the Democrats take their sweet time making sure this is done right and with proper oversight.

The idea that passing the law in two weeks instead of today will cause all of us to become homeless and jobless is flat out ridiculous.
Every executive branch wants to operate without congressional oversight because it would be easier that way....but that's not the way our government is set up and it's about time congress stopped grabbing their ankles for this President.

100% agreed. There needs to be TONS of oversight here including a full audit of the FED. But what Dodd is offering is not real oversight.

Bush has had a free ride for far to long. But then again so has the FED.

[Snake Doctor]

This message is hidden because IllTestYourGirls is on your ignore list.

[NickPapageorgio]

Get off your fucking asses, get off this stupid message board and call your fucking senators. Tell them that if this shit goes through, you will kill a kitten or throw a puppy off a cliff.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm

<--- The American Dollar

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by cwd

Wow, that is crazy. I had no idea that Dodd alone blocked the only legislation that could have ensured "the whole crisis would have been avoided". Where was Bush and McCain, they should have been railing against Dodd for NOT legislating these private businesses! Now we have a socialized insurance company, mortgage company...at least we don't have socialized medicine.

[topnotch, standup guy]

Any bailout plan for the wall street bankers should include some relief for the regular joe's out there who are facing impending eviction from their own fucking houses.

What's fair is fair.

Of course it won't go down like that

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by cwd

Wow, that is crazy. I had no idea that Dodd alone blocked the only legislation that could have ensured "the whole crisis would have been avoided". Where was Bush and McCain, they should have been railing against Dodd for NOT legislating these private businesses! Now we have a socialized insurance company, mortgage company...at least we don't have socialized medicine.

McCain cosponsored the bill which would have placed portfolio limits on Fannie and Freddie limiting the amount of mortgage paper they could hold. If the bill had passed and the portfolio limits had been implemented then they would not have collapsed. The bill was blocked by party line opposition by the Democrats in the Banking committee headed by Dodd (while Dodd was getting sweetheart loans from Countrywide and huge campaign contributions from Fannie and Freddie). I guess if the left is unable to face the uncomfortable facts regarding the nature of this crisis they will just try and muddy the waters.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

McCain cosponsored the bill which would have placed portfolio limits on Fannie and Freddie limiting the amount of mortgage paper they could hold. If the bill had passed and the portfolio limits had been implemented then they would not have collapsed. The bill was blocked by party line opposition by the Democrats in the Banking committee headed by Dodd (while Dodd was getting sweetheart loans from Countrywide and huge campaign contributions from Fannie and Freddie). I guess if the left is unable to face the uncomfortable facts regarding the nature of this crisis they will just try and muddy the waters.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us...in&oref=slogin


director of freddie mac
BOISI, GEOFFREY T. MR.
NEW YORK, NY 10017
PRIVATE INVESTMENT FIRM

MCCAIN VICTORY 2008 05/21/2008 100000.00 28932242732
http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/qind/
http://www.fec.gov/finance/disclosure/norindsea.shtml

They are all whores

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

McCain cosponsored the bill which would have placed portfolio limits on Fannie and Freddie limiting the amount of mortgage paper they could hold. If the bill had passed and the portfolio limits had been implemented then they would not have collapsed. The bill was blocked by party line opposition by the Democrats in the Banking committee headed by Dodd (while Dodd was getting sweetheart loans from Countrywide and huge campaign contributions from Fannie and Freddie). I guess if the left is unable to face the uncomfortable facts regarding the nature of this crisis they will just try and muddy the waters.

Limiting the amoung of paper Fannie and Freddie could hold would only limit the number of people who could own homes. It wouldn't have done anything to prevent the current crisis we're in.

Fannie and Freddie had to be taken over because they couldn't raise enough capital to continue buying mortgages from other lending institutions....they basically suffered from the same credit crunch that's crippling the rest of the economy right now.

Unless you can show me where in McCain's proposed bill down payments would have been required for mortgages or proof of income and assets would have been required for mortgages or how it would have regulated CDO's and CDS's so that we could know what they're actually worth, then nothing in his bill could have prevented this crisis.

[pocketkangaroo]

It is kind of amazing to see the Democrats blamed for this. I mean they weren't in power at all for 6 years. The Congress has been controlled since 1992. The Fed Chariman and Treasury Secretary are put in by the President. Yet somehow, the Democrats are the ones that screwed it all up and the Republicans were powerless to stop them.

Revisionist history at its finest.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

It is kind of amazing to see the Democrats blamed for this. I mean they weren't in power at all for 6 years. The Congress has been controlled since 1992. The Fed Chariman and Treasury Secretary are put in by the President. Yet somehow, the Democrats are the ones that screwed it all up and the Republicans were powerless to stop them.

Revisionist history at its finest.

Im blaming everyone. The lack of action from the Dems the last few years makes my blood boil. They have done nothing they have promised and done little in the way of trying to fulfill those promises.

Now if they rush this like congress has rushed everything else (patriot act) then they are to blame as much as Bush. How many times can the dems say "the white house fooled us" or "the white house said we needed to act fast so we did". How many fucking times can the dems be "fooled" by Bush?!

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by topnotch, standup guy

Any bailout plan for the wall street bankers should include some relief for the regular joe's out there who are facing impending eviction from their own fucking houses.

What's fair is fair.

Of course it won't go down like that

What about the people who were not dumb enough to buy a house on the high end of the market? Or those not dumb enough to take on the bad loans?

Those who took the bad loans on the wrong side of the bubble are just as much to blame for this mess as the lenders.

If you owe the bank money it is not your house until you pay that loan off.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Im blaming everyone. The lack of action from the Dems the last few years makes my blood boil. They have done nothing they have promised and done little in the way of trying to fulfill those promises.

Now if they rush this like congress has rushed everything else (patriot act) then they are to blame as much as Bush. How many times can the dems say "the white house fooled us" or "the white house said we needed to act fast so we did". How many fucking times can the dems be "fooled" by Bush?!

I agree. Democrats are pussies who would rather sit, whine and point fingers than actually change something. But this mess took place under a Republican watch and no one came out and said anything. They knew the bubble was building yet gave speeches that stated the economy was strong and on the right track. They refused to call it a crisis and hid behind words like "slowdown" and "bumps in the road".

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

It is kind of amazing to see the Democrats blamed for this. I mean they weren't in power at all for 6 years. The Congress has been controlled since 1992. The Fed Chariman and Treasury Secretary are put in by the President. Yet somehow, the Democrats are the ones that screwed it all up and the Republicans were powerless to stop them.

Revisionist history at its finest.

Yeah watching the spin on cable news has been hilarious. (I keep telling myself I'm going to quit watching cable news....but I just can't help myself)

All of the republican spin doctors keep talking about how the democrats have controlled congress for the past 2 years and this is happening on their watch........I'm like WTF??

Repubs controlled congress from 1994-2006 and the White House from 2000 until now....and now that everything's falling apart it's the Democrats fault?

Not to mention, since the dems took over congress in 2006, the republicans have filibustered or the President has vetoed every significant piece of legislation they've tried to pass, and then the republicans go on TV and blame the democratic congress for not accomplishing anything in the past 2 years.

[WhiplashDug]

Originally Posted by SCORE-Cash

Essays on the Great Depression
Ben S. Bernanke
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/6817.html

Bernanke is trying to scare congress to act quickly, while saying to all of us don't worry it's OK, we have it under control.

The moral of this... THE FED GOVERNMENT AND ITS 'OVERSIGHT' AND MEDDLING are what caused the great depression. MORE government programs ARE NOT the answer!

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

I agree. Democrats are pussies who would rather sit, whine and point fingers than actually change something. But this mess took place under a Republican watch and no one came out and said anything. They knew the bubble was building yet gave speeches that stated the economy was strong and on the right track. They refused to call it a crisis and hid behind words like "slowdown" and "bumps in the road".

The only people that have been saying this for awhile are the people that never make the news until this shit happens. People like Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, and Ralph Nader. They were screaming at the tops of their lungs about this on coming crisis. While the dem power sat on their hands and let Bush railroad them.

[WhiplashDug]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Yeah watching the spin on cable news has been hilarious. (I keep telling myself I'm going to quit watching cable news....but I just can't help myself)

All of the republican spin doctors keep talking about how the democrats have controlled congress for the past 2 years and this is happening on their watch........I'm like WTF??

Repubs controlled congress from 1994-2006 and the White House from 2000 until now....and now that everything's falling apart it's the Democrats fault?

Not to mention, since the dems took over congress in 2006, the republicans have filibustered or the President has vetoed every significant piece of legislation they've tried to pass, and then the republicans go on TV and blame the democratic congress for not accomplishing anything in the past 2 years.

Well.. actually, the "lending practices" that created the huge run on 'sub-prime' loans originated during the Clinton Administration and democrat congress. But, then the Republican run congress DID nothing while they held control.

However, in 2005 after Greenspan complained, the Bush administration preassured congress and a group of Republicans (including McCain) co-sponsored S.190. This was blocked by democrats 'right down party lines'. The republicans held only a 1 seat majority at that time, and were not able to get enough votes. HOWEVER .. .EVERY democrat in congress OPPOSED IT! And that includes both Obama & Biden.

It's not revisionist history. It's fact. It's all on the record.

[WhiplashDug]

Here is the bill: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-190

Sponsors:

Sen. Charles Hagel [R-NE]


Cosponsors:

Sen. Elizabeth Dole [R-NC]
Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]
Sen. John Sununu [R-NH]


Summery:

1/26/2005--Introduced.

Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 - Amends the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 to establish: (1) in lieu of the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight of the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), an independent Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Agency which shall have authority over the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation, the Federal Home Loan Banks, the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac); and (2) the Federal Housing Enterprise Board.

Sets forth operating, administrative, and regulatory provisions of the Agency, including provisions respecting: (1) assessment authority; (2) authority to limit nonmission-related assets; (3) minimum and critical capital levels; (4) risk-based capital test; (5) capital classifications and undercapitalized enterprises; (6) enforcement actions and penalties; (7) golden parachutes; and (8) reporting.

Amends the Federal Home Loan Bank Act to establish the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation. Transfers the functions of the Office of Finance of the Federal Home Loan Banks to such Corporation.

Excludes the Federal Home Loan Banks from certain securities reporting requirements.
Abolishes the Federal Housing Finance Board.

[yys]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Limiting the amoung of paper Fannie and Freddie could hold would only limit the number of people who could own homes. It wouldn't have done anything to prevent the current crisis we're in.

Fannie and Freddie had to be taken over because they couldn't raise enough capital to continue buying mortgages from other lending institutions....they basically suffered from the same credit crunch that's crippling the rest of the economy right now.

Unless you can show me where in McCain's proposed bill down payments would have been required for mortgages or proof of income and assets would have been required for mortgages or how it would have regulated CDO's and CDS's so that we could know what they're actually worth, then nothing in his bill could have prevented this crisis.

Thats kind of the crux of the problem, no? People getting mortgages that had no business applying for one in the first place.

The bill would have reined in Fannie and Freddie and their capacity to buy this junk thus decreasing the amount that companies such as countrywide would have been able to offer. With less easy money on the street companies would have tightened up their requirements leading to fewer supprime mortgages. It probably wouldn't have completely averted the problems we see now but it would have made them much smaller.


Anyways, your whole system for giving people mortgages in the U.S. is B.S.
You should make people put money down when buying a home. If they don't have 20% they should have to take out mortgage insurance like we do in Canada.
These LTV100%+, interest only, no income, no employment, 40 year term mortgages that companies were allowed to sell with the backing of Fannie and Freddie were a recipe for disaster.

Why are people surprised that Dem's have their finger prints all over this mess just like the Repubs? They are well known for believing it is your god given right to own a home and like to force companies to lend to low income individuals.

[WhiplashDug]

Originally Posted by yys

Anyways, your whole system for giving people mortgages in the U.S. is B.S. You should make people put money down when buying a home. If they don't have 20% they should have to take out mortgage insurance like we do in Canada. These LTV100%+, interest only, no income, no employment, 40 year term mortgages that companies were allowed to sell with the backing of Fannie and Freddie were a recipe for disaster.

Why are people surprised that Dem's have their finger prints all over this mess just like the Repubs? They are well known for believing it is your god given right to own a home and like to force companies to lend to low income individuals.

Actually, PMI (primary mortgage insurance) is required for non-conforming loans below a minimum LTV. Hence, the AIG problems.

But your observations are correct - the lending practices are bad. But, that's the direct result of the influence of the US CONGRESS forcing funding companies to offer those types of loans.

It should not be the government that sets lending standards. That's the right of private business. If some business choose to take that risk - then they reap the spoils and the spoilage. That's business.

Where the regulations come into play - is that the government has the right to force PUBLICLY traded companies to release TRUE and CORRECT financial statements listing their complete holdings and the RISK LEVEL of those holdings. But thats it! And that should ONLY apply to PUBLICLY traded companies - as the general shareholders need to be protected. But that't it! It shoudl stop there!

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by WhiplashDug

Well.. actually, the "lending practices" that created the huge run on 'sub-prime' loans originated during the Clinton Administration and democrat congress. But, then the Republican run congress DID nothing while they held control.

However, in 2005 after Greenspan complained, the Bush administration preassured congress and a group of Republicans (including McCain) co-sponsored S.190. This was blocked by democrats 'right down party lines'. The republicans held only a 1 seat majority at that time, and were not able to get enough votes. HOWEVER .. .EVERY democrat in congress OPPOSED IT! And that includes both Obama & Biden.

It's not revisionist history. It's fact. It's all on the record.

Ok see here's where a big part of the problem is...as it relates to democrats and this crisis.

Bill Clinton was not a rank and file Democrat. Alan Greenspan even referred to him as one of the best republican presidents we've ever had.

While obviously, as a liberal myself, I liked him and his policies alot more than Bush Sr before him and Bush Jr after him....that doesn't mean I agree with everything he did.

Personally, I think most democrats are more in line with FDR than they are with Bill Clinton.
Capitalism won't survive in this country without a strong and prosperous middle class. I support labor unions, universal health care that is a right for all and not just a privilege for the well off, social security for our seniors and a minimum wage that is a living wage. (i.e. anyone who works a full time job should be above the poverty line, period)


The current crisis isn't a just democratic or republican issue really, it's a problem caused by lack of regulation and lack of enforcement of the regulations that did exist.
I'm sure you can find plenty of democrats who opposed more regulation just as you can find some republicans who did want more regulation.
As a whole though, republicans are the party of deregulation and democrats are the party of "big government" as conservatives like to say.

Also please note
The current crisis isn't "just" a result of mortgage defaults. Currently almost 1 in 10 mortgages in this country are delinquent or in some stage of foreclosure.
A 10% loss on an investment isn't really a big deal, relatively speaking. The reason so many firms are going belly up is because they borrowed money to buy these mortgage securities, and now they can't sell the securities to pay back the loans and they can't get new loans using the mortgages as collateral.

So the problem isn't really bad mortgages....it's that wall street leveraged themselves 10, 20, or 30+ times over to buy the mortgages and now they can't unload them.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by WhiplashDug

Actually, PMI (primary mortgage insurance) is required for non-conforming loans below a minimum LTV. Hence, the AIG problems.

But your observations are correct - the lending practices are bad. But, that's the direct result of the influence of the US CONGRESS forcing funding companies to offer those types of loans.

It should not be the government that sets lending standards. That's the right of private business. If some business choose to take that risk - then they reap the spoils and the spoilage. That's business.

Where the regulations come into play - is that the government has the right to force PUBLICLY traded companies to release TRUE and CORRECT financial statements listing their complete holdings and the RISK LEVEL of those holdings. But thats it! And that should ONLY apply to PUBLICLY traded companies - as the general shareholders need to be protected. But that't it! It shoudl stop there!

Yeah that's another big part of the problem is these new financial instruments that were used to package mortgages and sell them as bonds.
Mortgages have been sliced and diced and rewrapped and packaged in such a way that nobody can really tell what the paper is worth.

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by WhiplashDug

Actually, PMI (primary mortgage insurance) is required for non-conforming loans below a minimum LTV. Hence, the AIG problems.

But your observations are correct - the lending practices are bad. But, that's the direct result of the influence of the US CONGRESS forcing funding companies to offer those types of loans.

It should not be the government that sets lending standards. That's the right of private business. If some business choose to take that risk - then they reap the spoils and the spoilage. That's business.

Where the regulations come into play - is that the government has the right to force PUBLICLY traded companies to release TRUE and CORRECT financial statements listing their complete holdings and the RISK LEVEL of those holdings. But thats it! And that should ONLY apply to PUBLICLY traded companies - as the general shareholders need to be protected. But that't it! It shoudl stop there!

The sad irony is that it was government meddling that created this disaster and now all of the big government people are calling for more government meddling. Of course the unforeseen consequences of the current round of government meddling will only be felt down the road.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

The sad irony is that it was government meddling that created this disaster

Can you provide proof or even a substantive theory to back that statement up?

I'm sick of the free market zealots running around with their theories about how this is all the fault of the democrats or big government and how the greed and excesses of capitalism have nothing to do with it.

[SykkBoy]

that's it!
fuck you guys and fuck porn
I'm going to go into the banking industry!

see ya suckers!
I wanna totally fuck shit up, maybe get yelled at a little bit, then move on to an even better, higher paying banking job...