Here's some good news for McCain supporters..

[marketsmart]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080913/ap_on_el_pr/mccain

but what does greenspan know...

i cant wait for the idiots to come out and blame greenspan for the current economy..

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Greenspan was always a conservative cock sucker. But it is surprising he is not fond of MCcain's idea's in the economy.

And yeah is one of the guys responsible for the Amercian Economic downturn.

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

And yeah is one of the guys responsible for the Amercian Economic downturn.

the war is a big part of the downturn as well as too much population and too many jobs going overseas...

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Thats one thing I am curious in the Obama strategy. Bringing jobs back to America and taxing companies heavier that outsource. I say yes to that.

Outsourcing company jobs , manufacturing everything going off shore has taken a serious toll on the economy. It is one of the most under reported economic disasters in history and the media blames everything but out sourcing for the failing economy.

Fact when people cant find work they cant buy shit. And when they cant buy shit the companies suffer to some degree. Well the companies actually move the focus to other economies where purchasing power is stronger while having no interest in employing domestically to soften the economic downturn.

[baddog]

No one is bringing jobs back. That is a pipe dream. Listen to McCain's suggestion and retrain these people who lost their jobs to outsourcing.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

In Japan all the Japanese buy domestically. They have a philosophy of selling huge outside thier country but inside they tend only buy thier own products.

Japanese laws have made it so that if you want to sell in Japan you have to make it in Japan. Imports to Japan is grossely taxed. America used to have the whole "Buy American" and Made in the USA addage and many American business laws pushed domestic manufacturing with domestic purchase.

The huge string of Republican policies have fragmented and shattered the protections the American Consumer and American Worker had.

Obama has been saying he will bring jobsd back to America by taxing companies heavily that relie on outsourcing. I totally agree with Obama on this.

If a Company wants to sell in America they make the shit in America. Period.
If A Company wants to keep Outsourcing thats great but there products and services will be marginalised on Import.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by baddog

No one is bringing jobs back. That is a pipe dream. Listen to McCain's suggestion and retrain these people who lost their jobs to outsourcing.

I think we need a combination of training and retraining, but also some changes in trade and outsourcing. The training part of emphasized in Obama's proposals for education so that America can remain competitive.

A re-trained American may still lose his job to an equally trained 3rd worlder who costs a fraction to employ.

I actually don't know of any real solution here. If the Chinese can do everything we can but for cheaper, companies are going to go there no matter the training Americans have. This leads to the question: how can we have a functioning economy if there is no middle-class because their job is overseas.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

In Japan all the Japanese buy domestically. They have a philosophy of selling huge outside thier country but inside they tend only buy thier own products.

Japanese laws have made it so that if you want to sell in Japan you have to make it in Japan. Imports to Japan is grossely taxed. America used to have the whole "Buy American" and Made in the USA addage and many American business laws pushed domestic manufacturing with domestic purchase.

The huge string of Republican policies have fragmented and shattered the protections the American Consumer and American Worker had.

Obama has been saying he will bring jobsd back to America by taxing companies heavily that relie on outsourcing. I totally agree with Obama on this.

If a Company wants to sell in America they make the shit in America. Period.
If A Company wants to keep Outsourcing thats great but there products and services will be marginalised on Import.

If this is true and it has proven successful in Japan, I see no reason not to follow their model.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Mike33

If this is true and it has proven successful in Japan, I see no reason not to follow their model.

Only reason I figured that out was when I working on a busines smodel to import wine to Japan. It's a royal cluster fuck to boot but even when getting it in the circulation there sits the question of whether or not Retailers would actually buy it as the price would be very high in Taxes.

IN short with Wine ya got the Japanese by the ball's they can not really make grape wine but the business custom and custom of Japan is to buy Japanese products and services.

SO even if I got it over there I would have to be Japanese to even sell it, as the consumer is Socially hard pressed to buy from a Non-Country men. If I were Japanese and bought American wines and brought them in that would be narrowly acceptable but I would still be heavily taxed for the importation.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

In Japan all the Japanese buy domestically. They have a philosophy of selling huge outside thier country but inside they tend only buy thier own products.

Japanese laws have made it so that if you want to sell in Japan you have to make it in Japan. Imports to Japan is grossely taxed. America used to have the whole "Buy American" and Made in the USA addage and many American business laws pushed domestic manufacturing with domestic purchase.

Japan's economy has been one of the slowest growing of industrial countries for almost two decades now. Their economy has only grown at a little less than 1.4% per year since 1990. The US by comparison has grown at 3.1% per year. (Source: IMF)

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Japan's economy has been one of the slowest growing of industrial countries for almost two decades now. Their economy has only grown at a little less than 1.4% per year since 1990. The US by comparison has grown at 3.1% per year. (Source: IMF)

Thats fine and well but that does not explaine the strong yen against the dollar very well does it.

I do not give a shit what the American dollar is worth over sea's, domestic value is whats important.
Thats what makes goods and services worth buying for the consumer and worth working for.

[cykoe6]

I agree with Greenspan that tax cuts would require cuts in government spending. That is why we should cut government spending.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

I agree with Greenspan that tax cuts would require cuts in government spending. That is why we should cut government spending.

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

I agree with Greenspan that tax cuts would require cuts in government spending. That is why we should cut government spending.

although i dont like mccain or his tax plan, i have to disagree...

to the republicans, cutting spending means cutting off things like school funding, welfare, medicare, etc...

basically all the programs that help the poor and disadvantaged....

show me a plan where we shrink govt., stop spending billions of dollars for foreign aid, and stop spending money on wars that have no US monetary reward, and i will get on board with it...

until that day, we are going to need to raise taxes to get out of this mess...

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

I have no idea why taxes would be important, even to the Rich, it's pretty clear that under another Republican Administration the AMerican dollar is not going to be worth the paper it is printed on.

At least if you are poor the economy going to shit wont make it any worse being rich however you would have alot more to lose.

[cykoe6]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

to the republicans, cutting spending means cutting off things like school funding, welfare, medicare, etc...

Agreed. There is plenty of wasteful spending like that in the federal budget. That is why there is plenty of room to cut spending and lower taxes.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Thats one thing I am curious in the Obama strategy. Bringing jobs back to America and taxing companies heavier that outsource. I say yes to that.

Well I'm more for encouraging compnaies staying in the Us buy giving them INCENTIVES for staying not threatening them if they leave.

Outsourcing company jobs , manufacturing everything going off shore has taken a serious toll on the economy. It is one of the most under reported economic disasters in history and the media blames everything but out sourcing for the failing economy.

Listen 150 years ago 90% of the people farmed. Now less than 2% do. why because back then the conomy could handle that. No way it can handle 90% people famring today. Point is things cahnge. People need to accpet the days of spending 40 years at the wideget factory making widgets are over. And if they want to continue to work at a widget factory they need to accept they can't be making $20 an hour plus all the benefits doing it.

Fact when people cant find work they cant buy shit. And when they cant buy shit the companies suffer to some degree. Well the companies actually move the focus to other economies where purchasing power is stronger while having no interest in employing domestically to soften the economic downturn.

people need to look for opportunites in other avenues.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

I agree with Greenspan that tax cuts would require cuts in government spending. That is why we should cut government spending.

If you're looking for cutting government spending, Republicans are the last place you should look these days.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

Agreed. There is plenty of wasteful spending like that in the federal budget. That is why there is plenty of room to cut spending and lower taxes.

Mos tof the budget is Militray social security adn interest on teh debt. Things that won't/can't be cut. I mean we can not pay on the interest on teh debt. Anyone that cut SS is not getting elected to re-elected. Proposing cutting the military budget will not get any republican the GOP nomination. So where are the cuts coming from?

Is there a lot of BS projects and pork? Sure we all say those have to go. But if our respective representatives got rid of pork for our own congressional district we would not re-elect him because he fail to "bring home the bacon". Fact is we only want OTHER people's pork cut, not out own. And with that attitude pork will never get cut when bringing home the most pork is the biggest requirement to getting re-elected.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Mos tof the budget is Militray social security adn interest on teh debt. Things that won't/can't be cut. I mean we can not pay on the interest on teh debt. Anyone that cut SS is not getting elected to re-elected. Proposing cutting the military budget will not get any republican the GOP nomination. So where are the cuts coming from?

Is there a lot of BS projects and pork? Sure we all say those have to go. But if our respective representatives got rid of pork for our own congressional district we would not re-elect him because he fail to "bring home the bacon". Fact is we only want OTHER people's pork cut, not out own. And with that attitude pork will never get cut when bringing home the most pork is the biggest requirement to getting re-elected.

That's a real good point. When people whine about welfare and stuff in our society, they don't realize it's an extremely small part of our federal budget. The money is in the things you mentioned.

Sad thing is that if we paid our debt off and didn't have to deal with interest payments (which I believe are about 16% of the budget), we'd be able to do a ton of shit like national healthcare, major infrastructure overhauls, etc that would benefit this country. A lot of that stuff would actually create jobs in this country too.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Japan's economy has been one of the slowest growing of industrial countries for almost two decades now. Their economy has only grown at a little less than 1.4% per year since 1990. The US by comparison has grown at 3.1% per year. (Source: IMF)

They also don't have millions of illegals coming in depressing wages either. In fact there whole immigration policy is very restrictive. Practically non-existant.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

That's a real good point. When people whine about welfare and stuff in our society, they don't realize it's an extremely small part of our federal budget. The money is in the things you mentioned.

Sad thing is that if we paid our debt off and didn't have to deal with interest payments (which I believe are about 16% of the budget), we'd be able to do a ton of shit like national healthcare, major infrastructure overhauls, etc that would benefit this country. A lot of that stuff would actually create jobs in this country too.

The 8% comes from the IRS website. Whether that's accurate or not I can be 100% sure but I'll take the govrnments numbers over anyone else's at this point.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Mos tof the budget is Militray social security adn interest on teh debt. Things that won't/can't be cut. I mean we can not pay on the interest on teh debt. Anyone that cut SS is not getting elected to re-elected. Proposing cutting the military budget will not get any republican the GOP nomination. So where are the cuts coming from?

Is there a lot of BS projects and pork? Sure we all say those have to go. But if our respective representatives got rid of pork for our own congressional district we would not re-elect him because he fail to "bring home the bacon". Fact is we only want OTHER people's pork cut, not out own. And with that attitude pork will never get cut when bringing home the most pork is the biggest requirement to getting re-elected.

Time to bring our troops home. We can start with Europe and Iraq. There is almost 500,000 people with income to spend right there. They will need places to live and places to buy goods.

Europe can defend their own countries right?

[davidd]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i cant wait for the idiots to come out and blame greenspan for the current economy..

Greenspan is merely a cog in the wheel that threw gasoline on a fire.

It started back in 1913 with Woodrow Wilson (D) enacting the Federal Reserve Act. Taking the control of the currency and handing it the Federal Reserve.

Followed by FDR (D) making gold ownership illegal in 1933 and then confiscating all gold.

Followed by Richard Nixon (R) completely removing us from the Gold Standard.

Followed by Alan Greenspan (Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush II) devaluing the currency via massive expansion of credit/money printing. It is now being referred to as the "Greenspan Bubble".

As to government spending/tax cuts. There needs to be a massive slashing of spending... Military, Social Security, Medicare, pork projects, etc. What really needs to happen is for this country to go back to the original intent of the Constitution and that is a Federal Government responsible for a few basic things... The rest the states handle.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Time to bring our troops home. We can start with Europe and Iraq. There is almost 500,000 people with income to spend right there. They will need places to live and places to buy goods.

I don't know if you're being facetious, but you're absolutely right.

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Europe can defend their own countries right?

Absolutely right they can. The Middle East is closer to European Democratic Western nations than America. If this about freedom and democracy, let Europeans handle it. It's basically in their backyard. We have to travel across the atlantic, and over Africa to fight the terrorists on camels.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Mike33

I don't know if you're being facetious, but you're absolutely right.

I was/am dead serious

[Drake]

Originally Posted by GatorB

They also don't have millions of illegals coming in depressing wages either. In fact there whole immigration policy is very restrictive. Practically non-existant.

Exactly. Moreover all the talk of % growth means jack to those out of work. If the economy is "growing" but only benefiting a fraction of people, who gives a hoot.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by GatorB

The 8% comes from the IRS website. Whether that's accurate or not I can be 100% sure but I'll take the govrnments numbers over anyone else's at this point.

You are correct, I just looked it up too. I think the 16% came from a site that really broke down the numbers deep. I guess part of our military budget goes toward paying interest on debts from previous decades.

Anyways, 8% is still a lot of money. I just calculated 8% of what I paid in and realize that was basically thrown away because our politicians can't balance a checkbook. Just imagine what happens to that 8% if we lose our high credit rating (which could be a possibility if we keep bailing out Wall Street).

One of the areas they could immediately cut back on is in Medicare. That last bill they signed a few years back is so riddled with lobbyist bullshit it's sick. We can't even negotiate prices on prescription drugs which is absolutely insane. The VA does it and saves a fortune. I bet they could knock off billions by re-doing that and cutting out all the shit.

[ADL Colin]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Thats fine and well but that does not explaine the strong yen against the dollar very well does it.

Not only does Japan have one of the slowest growing economies of the past 20 years of the major industrial economies they by far have the highest national debt to GDP ratio of the major economies. In fact, of all the countries in the world only Zimbabwe's debt is greater relative to its GDP. Zimbabwe! The Japanese stock market index (Nikkei 225) is 70% lower than it was in 1989. No shit. Can you imagine being a Tokyo citizen in 1989 with $1 million in the market for retirement? 20 years later it is worth $300,000?

The Japanese economy has been a mess for 20 years. So what of the Yen. By nearly every measure Japan's economy has been anemic for two decades and there are handfuls of reasons why that is so - some of them demographic, some systemic. You think tariffs are actually helping the Japanese economy? Hmmmm. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act anyone?

Even with a strong Yen/Dollar cross what would you do with it? Buy something from America? Nope. Import taxes go right into the cost of the good.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Not only does Japan have one of the slowest growing economies of the past 20 years of the major industrial economies they by far have the highest national debt to GDP ratio of the major economies. In fact, of all the countries in the world only Zimbabwe's debt is greater relative to its GDP. Zimbabwe! The Japanese stock market index (Nikkei 225) is 70% lower than it was in 1989. No shit. Can you imagine being a Tokyo citizen in 1989 with $1 million in the market for retirement? 20 years later it is worth $300,000?

You are pointing out some of silly things. Japan is the 2nd strongest economy in the world. Ya point out GDP and I think you do not know what it is or you lost me somewhere in the debt ratio comparing it to Zimbabwe...

In 2005 Japans GDP was 502,905,400 and the exchange with the American dollar is $110.01 97 . SO says wikki pedia and so those numbers do not match what you have said by any means.
For purchasing power parity comparisons, the US Dollar is exchanged at ￥125.16. I do not want to call the CIA's information accurate, they been wrong before on many other improtant things. That must be an error or the pages relevance is ranking something other than what you think it is or it is being interpreted wrong.

Originally Posted by ADL Colin

Import taxes go right into the cost of the good.

Not true whats so ever. Thats a pornographers game and simpleton thinking.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Not true whats so ever. Thats a pornographers game and simpleton thinking.

Please stop pretending you have a clue. Why do you think Harley-Davidson's are so expensive in EU or Asia?

Import taxes.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Time to bring our troops home. We can start with Europe and Iraq. There is almost 500,000 people with income to spend right there. They will need places to live and places to buy goods.

Europe can defend their own countries right?

Oh I agree. No reason why we should be in Europe. The commies are gone, Germany is no longer a threat. Does England have bases here? I feel it's also time to remove the part of the Japanese constitution( that WE drew up by the way ) that says they can't field their own army. Why not? Anyone here stil feel threatened by the Japanese? There's more money saved.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Time to bring our troops home. We can start with Europe and Iraq. There is almost 500,000 people with income to spend right there. They will need places to live and places to buy goods.

Europe can defend their own countries right?

I agree with you on that one.

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by davidd

Greenspan is merely a cog in the wheel that threw gasoline on a fire.

It started back in 1913 with Woodrow Wilson (D) enacting the Federal Reserve Act. Taking the control of the currency and handing it the Federal Reserve.

Followed by FDR (D) making gold ownership illegal in 1933 and then confiscating all gold.

Followed by Richard Nixon (R) completely removing us from the Gold Standard.

Followed by Alan Greenspan (Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush II) devaluing the currency via massive expansion of credit/money printing. It is now being referred to as the "Greenspan Bubble".

As to government spending/tax cuts. There needs to be a massive slashing of spending... Military, Social Security, Medicare, pork projects, etc. What really needs to happen is for this country to go back to the original intent of the Constitution and that is a Federal Government responsible for a few basic things... The rest the states handle.

you hit the nail on the head...

but tell me, what will we do with the poor and seniors if the govt cuts funding to these programs...

i think the biggest issue that plagues the US right now is the dependency on foreign oil and the private federal reserve...

the US should take back the fed (never gonna happen) and cut foreign oil dependency with alternative energy (not more drilling, but actually fund more refineries, more nuclear, more solar, more wind, etc etc..)

and fuck big corporations.. you want to send jobs overseas? then you should be taxed at a higher rate for US based corp imports...