To all you Obama tools (vids)

[Odin]

This is by no means an endorsement of McCain, I just think Obama is the same. The tools like notoldschool, of which there are many, who place all their hope in Obama really make me laugh. Obama has been changing his position to appeal to the lobbyists (AIPAC and the like), and the establishment from the day he started running, and yet you think he will grow the balls to do something when he finally does get in office? It's hilarious.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Having the same exit strategy from Iraq as Bush is change we can believe in.

[Odin]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Having the same exit strategy from Iraq as Bush is change we can believe in.

Yep, and yet some people still can't work out that it isn't even his strategy. To quote one of the vids above: "One of the reasons Obama's foreign policy shows so much continuity with the American status quo is because his foreign policy advisor's are a who's who of... the American status quo."

I hate to break it to you American's, but to change the status quo in your country you have to do more than get your lazy ass off the couch 1 day every few years to place a vote. The status quo has money, is well organized and dedicated and no matter who is elected America will continue to walk more or less the exact same path unless they are replaced, or seriously taken on. And no politician who bends to their will in order to get elected, will ever confront them once he is.

[tiger]

So you think McCain is the better choice then?

[Gouge]

Originally Posted by tiger

So you think McCain is the better choice then?

He just said This is by no means an endorsement of McCain.

[Odin]

Originally Posted by tiger

So you think McCain is the better choice then?

No, but here is my problem, and I will try to present it in an easy to understand manner.

Neo-conservative front-men McCain/Bush (in this instance) go to the American people, often those who have the intention of being the most patriotic, the most pro-American, and use their ignorance (and I am not lumping them as rednecks by any stretch of the imagination, the public at large by its nature is ignorant to real politics) and take that last bit of fight left in the American heartland to preserve, protect and advance America and manipulate it into doing things which fundamentally don't serve American interest, and in fact in the end hurt America. Why do they do it? Well read on.

Liberal front-men Obama/Clinton (in this instance) go to the American people who fundamentally want to be good, decent human beings (and I am talking about the motivated bases here not the ones who vote Democrat because their father did or whatever), who want to dream of a world of peace, who are idealistic and sell them that dream, and than they take that will and manipulate it to the "realities" of the situation. "I will bring our troops home in 2009" >> "I will have a timeline for withdrawal" >> "Some US troops must remain" >> "Today we have bombed Iran, as they are a threat to our national interests". Why do they do it? Well read the next part.

The reason why both end up in almost the exact same situation irregardless of who is elected, is because the establishment decides, and that means the lobbyists (and on the Iran issue think AIPAC), the career politicians, the media, etc. Is McCain more hawkish sure... Will Israel or the US bomb Iran regardless of who is elected? Yes. Will troops remain in Iraq at more or less the same rate regardless? Yes. Will there continue to be an unhealthy and unjust balance towards Israel, and no resolution and no Palestinian state at the end of whoever is elected terms? Yes. Willl.... it can go on all day.

And this is why I fundamentally hate both of the two controlled sides of politics I see. Both sell something to well intentioned (even if not completely well-intentioned) yet ignorant people (people they know are ignorant, that is why they base their campaigns on gaffs rather than issues) and manipulate their intention to follow the established orders agenda in order to further themselves and occasionally get thrown a bone. They are both traitors and sell-outs.

[Malicious Biz]

[tiger]

You are right the system is fucked. You still have to make a choice. Doing nothing or just bashing the whole thing is completely unproductive. Pick the best one and try to make the system better that's about all you can do. The system won't be wiped out any time soon. Real change is brought about little bits at a time over a long period.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by tiger

You are right the system is fucked. You still have to make a choice. Doing nothing or just bashing the whole thing is completely unproductive. Pick the best one and try to make the system better that's about all you can do. The system won't be wiped out any time soon. Real change is brought about little bits at a time over a long period.

I know you are not so uneducated that you think there are only two people, which are basically the same thing, running for office.

You do NOT need to vote for either one of them and you not voting for one of them is not going to hand the election to the other person but it will prove you wont take this shit anymore.

[pornguy]

People. They Are Both Politicians And They Will Tell You Any Fucking Lie To Get Into Office!!!!!!

[The Duck]

They are both the same.

[webcams_sean]

Btw pay attention to the DRAMATIC music in the background :-D

[nation-x]

I think that these videos and this discussion is really irrelevant to reality and muddies the waters of logic. In my opinion, I think that this type of criticism is valid... but the conclusions that this video series comes to is a disconnect from reality. Here is why... no matter what... we are stuck with the 2 party system unless we have a real revolution. The reality is that the majority of the American people are NOT engaged at all. I don't discourage third party voting... but in reality Ross Perot has been the only third party candidate to pull any real percentage of votes... and I don't see any Ross Perot's emerging... Ron Paul won't even be on the ballot. So... we have a quandary... do I vote for McCain or Obama...

I don't think McCain will be a "Third Bush Term"... I think he has pandered himself to the right in order to gain the presidency... but I don't believe he will follow through on those right wing policy positions as president... His history as a moderate is way too long. However, when I look at who he has surrounded himself with... I know he will owe some debts and cabinet positions have been bartered in return. In addition, I prefer some semblance of balance on the Supreme Court and adding more conservatives to the court is a mistake in my opinion... so that is the nail in the coffin for me when coupled with McCain's economic proposals (which I think are disastrous).

Obama won't be able to accomplish 75% of what he wants to accomplish in my opinion. However, I know he won't appoint conservative judges... I know he won't endorse "Trickle Down Fuck-Over-The-Economics". I think he will invest in our infrastructure and help the middle and poverty class.

Foreign Policy - We won't elect a president that is capable of fixing our Foreign Policy problems... one doesn't exist. There are way too many players in the game... However, at least I know we won't attack countries in an effort to further the goals of the neo-con agenda while Obama is president.

[cherrylula]

Joe Biden is going to pull it all together!

[tiger]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

I know you are not so uneducated that you think there are only two people, which are basically the same thing, running for office.

You do NOT need to vote for either one of them and you not voting for one of them is not going to hand the election to the other person but it will prove you wont take this shit anymore.

Guess I'm uneducated then because I don't see what alternative solution you are presenting.

Don't vote? Then one of them wins the election anyway and we are stuck with that person for at least 4 years and more likely 8, what do we do then?

If you want we can make a bet that me not voting won't stop one of them from winning and I can also guarantee that no one will take notice of the fact that I didn't vote.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by nation-x

I think that these videos and this discussion is really irrelevant to reality and muddies the waters of logic. In my opinion, I think that this type of criticism is valid... but the conclusions that this video series comes to is a disconnect from reality. Here is why... no matter what... we are stuck with the 2 party system unless we have a real revolution. The reality is that the majority of the American people are NOT engaged at all. I don't discourage third party voting... but in reality Ross Perot has been the only third party candidate to pull any real percentage of votes... and I don't see any Ross Perot's emerging... Ron Paul won't even be on the ballot. So... we have a quandary... do I vote for McCain or Obama...

I don't think McCain will be a "Third Bush Term"... I think he has pandered himself to the right in order to gain the presidency... but I don't believe he will follow through on those right wing policy positions as president... His history as a moderate is way too long. However, when I look at who he has surrounded himself with... I know he will owe some debts and cabinet positions have been bartered in return. In addition, I prefer some semblance of balance on the Supreme Court and adding more conservatives to the court is a mistake in my opinion... so that is the nail in the coffin for me when coupled with McCain's economic proposals (which I think are disastrous).

Obama won't be able to accomplish 75% of what he wants to accomplish in my opinion. However, I know he won't appoint conservative judges... I know he won't endorse "Trickle Down Fuck-Over-The-Economics". I think he will invest in our infrastructure and help the middle and poverty class.

Foreign Policy - We won't elect a president that is capable of fixing our Foreign Policy problems... one doesn't exist. There are way too many players in the game... However, at least I know we won't attack countries in an effort to further the goals of the neo-con agenda while Obama is president.

I agree completely, and once again I must add... If you are in the adult biz, and you vote Republican, then you are a total moron!

[Pornstuck]

Obama Who?

[Martin]

Always interesting TV docs coming out of Canada like this.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by nation-x

Obama won't be able to accomplish 75% of what he wants to accomplish in my opinion.

But one wonders if most of the glazed-eyed Obama followers understand this.

[robfantasy]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

I agree completely, and once again I must add... If you are in the adult biz, and you vote Republican, then you are a total moron!

if u are in the adult biz and vote period, you are wasting your time

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by Mike33

But one wonders if most of the glazed-eyed Obama followers understand this.

As long as they vote I don't care.

[nation-x]

BTW... here is a question... does it make any sense to tax the employer contributions to health benefits to pay for a $5000 health insurance tax credit?

Let's call McCain someone with a history of lying to the American Public
On a side note: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UY5Plqs5d98

[MrAwesome]

always vote!

[jpwhits]

Jobama is a Muslim.

[2012]

most people are thinking exactly what they want you to on either side ...

it amazed me when I left this country for a short time and realized the "bubble" we all live in here. It was almost like a weight was lifted off of me ... the religion, conflict, poor vs. rich ... black vs. white , fear fear fear

every 4 years we go through the same lame parade ... this is all a fine tuned machine and either way we will get more of the same !!! It's just a matter of which side will be getting the MORE$$$ . don't worry it won't be you ...

[Manny_Kaye]

Obama we need Obama will have .

[Kudles]

I'm so tired of all this crap

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Malicious Biz

On the day the Republican led Federal Reserve and Treasury Department just bailed out AIG and nationalized insurance (after nationalizing mortgages a couple weeks ago), this picture just doesn't carry much impact.

[Odin]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

I know you are not so uneducated that you think there are only two people, which are basically the same thing, running for office.

You do NOT need to vote for either one of them and you not voting for one of them is not going to hand the election to the other person but it will prove you wont take this shit anymore.

Quoted for the fucking truth.

[Odin]

Originally Posted by nation-x

Foreign Policy - We won't elect a president that is capable of fixing our Foreign Policy problems... one doesn't exist. There are way too many players in the game... However, at least I know we won't attack countries in an effort to further the goals of the neo-con agenda while Obama is president.

Do you honestly think Obama won't at the VERY least sanction Israel to bomb Iran? And result in a direct confrontation between the US and Iran? Have you not heard the "tough talk" on Pakistan from Obama? Do you honestly think "he" won't continue to sanction cross border raids and confrontation with Pakistan? Here is a tip, he has constantly shifted closer and closer towards the establishments policy, and the establishment knows he is in their pocket, that is why they are backing and working for him. When he is in, he will more or less do exactly what McCain does.

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama said on Wednesday the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, adopting a tough tone after a chief rival accused him of naivete in foreign policy."

http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...32206420070801

CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!

[Odin]

bump.....