Protectiong against password traders. - GoFuckYourself.com

spaceman73 · 10-29-2002, 10:48 PM

Hi everyone,

I am really happy to be a part of this board. The discussion are always interesthing and it's one of the most open and friendly board I have seen.

I just bought my first paysite lately and was looking into some password protection program to make sure my member zone is secure. I came across Password Sentry which seems really good.

Anyone here use it, and have some comments to share ?

Thanks.
Jon

Sambuka · 10-29-2002, 11:14 PM

That program might be good but Pennywize is some kickass software, I just updated to there new version and it works perfectly. Deleted 5 passes first day, 13 the next day and 3 today. I have lots of members

And I think there new version blocks proxy dictionary attacks by accessdivers etc. (I think). Its a pretty cheap price too check it out.

www.pennywize.com

Sammy

Shark · 10-29-2002, 11:25 PM

Sammy,

I'm just wondering whats causing all these members to be deleted?
It seems to be a large amount, whats your ?threshold? of IP addresses set at ?

Spoonie Luv · 10-29-2002, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spaceman73
I am really happy to be a part of this board. The discussion are always interesthing and it's one of the most open and friendly board I have seen.

Are you sure you have the right board?

daddynastee · 10-29-2002, 11:41 PM

HAR!

drunkdollars · 10-29-2002, 11:48 PM

proxypass works good i hear

spaceman73 · 10-30-2002, 12:07 AM

Thanks Sambuka, I had a look at Pennywise also. It seemed good, but I so far I had my eyes more on Password Sentry. But Pennywise seems really good also, I guess I'll decide based on the feedback I get here.

So far people seem to be using other programs. Thanks Drunk dollars, I'll check that one out, haven't heard of it as much.

Shark as I can see you have some experiences with that kind of program, which one do you use ? What threshold of IP adresses would you be setting usually ?

HAHAHAHA Spoonie Luv, you just prove to me that I am going to be part of this board much more from now on. It's things like that which make it so interesthing, interraction, teasing, and no-hold barred subject.

Thanks for these quick reply, more more...

Jon

Danielle · 10-30-2002, 12:09 AM

Stop That Hacker works great! http://www.stopthathacker.com

Plus it's on sale right now.

Hugs,
Danielle

chupacabra · 10-30-2002, 12:16 AM

i've used both packages, and have to say that pw sentry is tops in our book... aside from weirdness we've experienced w/ pennywize (crashing scripts, etc.) pw sentry is a much more solid solution we have found. dan will even install and tweak it on your server for you free of charge, and has never taken more than 8 hours to respond to any inquiries from us... when we emailed pennywize for support, it was over 30 hours before we even received a cursory response... ymmv, but i doubt it... pw sentry rocks all around..

Cindyff · 10-30-2002, 12:31 AM

Before you go signing up for a monthly service take a look at Bot Buster. We put this up on 10 sites and it works like a dream. Full control of IP addresses passwords members. I havent seen anything as good at the price.
Oh you can buy this for each site for around $150 per site thats around 3 monthly payments for these other programs?

http://www.botbuster.com

Argoz · 10-30-2002, 09:42 AM

Password Sentry or Pennywize ?

Hummmmmmmm

Pixhell

chupacabra · 10-30-2002, 10:04 AM

pw sentry does not have a monthly charge like pennywize does, it is a one-time payment..

Argoz · 10-30-2002, 10:08 AM

Yes, good point chupacabra !

Password Sentry = 2
Pennywize = 1
BotBusters = 1
Stop That Hacker = 1

Pixhell

sweetcuties · 10-30-2002, 10:19 AM

I use monster script/sentry for all my sites

Argoz · 10-30-2002, 10:36 AM

Thanks for you reply sweetcuties.

Password Sentry = 3
Pennywize = 1
BotBusters = 1
Stop That Hacker = 1

Pixhell

hitman699 · 10-30-2002, 10:42 AM

I use password sentry and it works great.

spaceman73 · 10-30-2002, 05:04 PM

Thanks for all your reply,
look like password sentry got a good reputation.
Thanks for all your recommendation, I like the one-off payment, and if it does the same as all the other, then it will be a good deal.
Thanks
Jon

LBBV · 10-30-2002, 08:04 PM

Whatever you get, make sure that it also stops brute force attacks. A brute force attack run from a fast connection will bring your server to it's knees.

I don't see anything about preventing brute force attack prevention on Password Sentry's site (doesn't mean that it doesn't do it though)

Most of our customers use Pennywize and are quite pleased with it. Their support sucks, but for our customers, that's not a problem because WE handle all the Pennywize support for our customer sites.

Another good one is IProtect. It's an apache module so it runs cleaner than a PERL script. Has less features than Pennywize though. Iprotect can be seen at http://www.digital-concepts.net/cgi-iprotect.html. They are extremely slow at answering their email though...

some_idiot · 10-30-2002, 08:07 PM

Use them to your advantage! Redirect the username in
you .htaccess to a pay per click program.

spaceman73 · 10-31-2002, 12:50 AM

Thank you again everyone.

LBBV you just mentionned something that I heard from Pennywise also, about preventing Brute Force.
Look like this is an imprtant issue in my decision.

However, when I asked Password Sentry I get an answer saying that they don't provide protection against directory/brut force attacks. That they did before but found that such CGI-Perl based strategies were flawed, that it made the web server crash during intense attacks - especially when the cracker ("password guesser") spoofs (fakes) their IP address (often rotating through IPs every 3-5 guesses).
And that in this case it's also uneffective because their program just switch IP constantly. But they say that you can use other server-friendly strategies.

Also that you might even end up blocking good users or traffic that use IP's which varies dynamically. (AOL ect..)

So now I am probably more mess-up than before, but at less I start to understand better. What are peoples toughts on that?
With ot without Brutal Force protection ?

Thanks again to everyone.
Jon

Petr · 10-31-2002, 01:13 AM

Jon, definitely brute force protection. There is a way of how to recognize a legitimate proxy (like AOL, etc.).

BTW if anyone is interested, we are finishing up our own system - http://www.passprotector.com which combines a member area protection with a member are management (adding/removing members, etc.). All the software has been tested for the last two months on all our sites (http://everycent.com) with excellent results... I will save more info for the upcoming one-time announcement... ;)

andi_germany · 10-31-2002, 01:55 AM

IProtect is the most effective prog out there but only if you have full access to your server. It will be compiled into apache and therefore will not slow down your site at all.

http://www.digital-concepts.net/cgi-iprotect.html

It is 500 bucks and for a new paysite owner it might be a little steep but it is really cool. I use it since 98 and I actually submit to passwordsiters to get the additional traffic to send to toplists.

LBBV · 10-31-2002, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spaceman73
Thank you again everyone.

LBBV you just mentionned something that I heard from Pennywise also, about preventing Brute Force.
Look like this is an imprtant issue in my decision.

However, when I asked Password Sentry I get an answer saying that they don't provide protection against directory/brut force attacks. That they did before but found that such CGI-Perl based strategies were flawed, that it made the web server crash during intense attacks - especially when the cracker ("password guesser") spoofs (fakes) their IP address (often rotating through IPs every 3-5 guesses).
And that in this case it's also uneffective because their program just switch IP constantly. But they say that you can use other server-friendly strategies.

Also that you might even end up blocking good users or traffic that use IP's which varies dynamically. (AOL ect..)

So now I am probably more mess-up than before, but at less I start to understand better. What are peoples toughts on that?
With ot without Brutal Force protection ?

Thanks again to everyone.
Jon

Because so many brute force attacks use spoofed IP addresses, there is always the chance that legit IP addresses will be blocked. The fix for this is to run a cron job every 15 minutes that unblock all the blocked IPs. We have a program that we wrote in-house that we use to augment Pennywize's brute force prevention, and it works great. Basically, it watches the log file and does a route reject of any spoofed IP, and then the cron job removes the blocked IP every 15 minutes. Brute force attacks NEVER affect us now

Sambuka · 10-31-2002, 06:11 AM

Sammy,

I'm just wondering whats causing all these members to be deleted?
It seems to be a large amount, whats your ?threshold? of IP addresses set at ?

I have all my sites set at 10-12 subnets before blocking, it doesn't seem to block any real members just blocks posted passwords. Here is yesterdays stats : 4 members deleted.

User: slutters
Subnets : 17
Hits 1136
Bytes Downloaded : 4081307
Minutes online : 50
Detected 13 different subnets
DISABLED.

User: MrBrownXX
SUBNETS: 48
hits : 3047
Bytes : 11430960
Minutes : 140
Detected 13 different subnets
DISABLED.

obt 11 943 3743583 46 Detected 11 different subnets
Bisto 11 889 3100461 36 Detected 11 different subnets

Here are some others from 2 days ago

MrBrownXX 47 3594 13301232 154 Detected 13 different subnets

Hrmm, I haven't really had a good look through this in awhile and it seems like I have 3-4 passwords that are the exact same being deleted each day. I'll have to change the .htaccess so it goes to my own frontpages instead of the pennywize blank page. Should make me a few extra signups a day with 3000-4000 traffic hitting me each day. i'll let them continue to hack those same passes

Sammy

pennywize_v3 · 10-31-2002, 07:05 AM

Hi Spaceman,

Steve from Pennywize here.

We have a big new launch on the 1st of November with Pennywize v3.0. We believe it is the best release yet, with a new brute force blocking method and much faster account detection and blocking.

Because we have gone through a period of fairly high growth, we are currently in the process of establishing dedicated support personnell to handle the growing amount of requests/installs we do.

Anyway Jon you can try Pennywize for FREE on your server and if you like it, great. If not then try something else, but you're lost nothing by at least trying Pennywize! I am confident once you try it you will be happy.

Thanks mate,

Steve
Pennywize.

spaceman73 · 10-31-2002, 08:13 AM

Wow, I just can't believ how this board rocks. Thanks again everyone for your

and great explanation.

Thanks andi_germany, I have full access to my server but at 500$ I'll have to wait a bit more, this expense was a bit unexpected, as I tought the previous owner would have had one already. But sounds really good, one day hopefully.

Thanks Petr, will it be launch soon. I have to decide in the next day or so?

Thanks again LLBV, your comments have been really appreciated so far. You in-house program sounds really really interething. IS it possible to get it even if I am hosted elsewhere ?

Thanks Steve, I"m definetely considering trying Pennywise, does your free trial include de Brute force protection ?

Thanks Everyone
Jon

WmCgi · 10-31-2002, 08:21 AM

Use Protector Pro ! It's the best !
full stats
automate block\unblock passes
ip zones limit
traffic limit
bruteforce attak's protect
unlimeted sites and unlimitet logins only for $33
i can get demo passes
just mail me : [email protected]

Link: Protector PRO

LBBV · 10-31-2002, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spaceman73
Wow, I just can't believ how this board rocks. Thanks again everyone for your and great explanation.

<-snip->

Thanks again LLBV, your comments have been really appreciated so far. You in-house program sounds really really interething. IS it possible to get it even if I am hosted elsewhere ?

Thanks Steve, I"m definetely considering trying Pennywise, does your free trial include de Brute force protection ?

Thanks Everyone
Jon

Unfortunately, our in-house add-on to Pennywize is only for our customers.

As for Pennywize, the only thing that the free trial does NOT do is it does NOT automatically block abused usernames. It does, however, send you an email so that you can block them manually...

10-29-2002, 10:48 PM	#1
spaceman73 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 59	Protectiong against password traders. Hi everyone, I am really happy to be a part of this board. The discussion are always interesthing and it's one of the most open and friendly board I have seen. I just bought my first paysite lately and was looking into some password protection program to make sure my member zone is secure. I came across Password Sentry which seems really good. Anyone here use it, and have some comments to share ? Thanks. Jon

10-29-2002, 11:48 PM	#6
drunkdollars Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Club Drunk Posts: 2,734	proxypass works good i hear __________________ SIGS ARE GAY 98055668 icq

10-30-2002, 10:19 AM	#14
sweetcuties Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere Posts: 5,859	I use monster script/sentry for all my sites __________________

10-30-2002, 08:04 PM	#18
LBBV Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 936	Whatever you get, make sure that it also stops brute force attacks. A brute force attack run from a fast connection will bring your server to it's knees. I don't see anything about preventing brute force attack prevention on Password Sentry's site (doesn't mean that it doesn't do it though) Most of our customers use Pennywize and are quite pleased with it. Their support sucks, but for our customers, that's not a problem because WE handle all the Pennywize support for our customer sites. Another good one is IProtect. It's an apache module so it runs cleaner than a PERL script. Has less features than Pennywize though. Iprotect can be seen at http://www.digital-concepts.net/cgi-iprotect.html. They are extremely slow at answering their email though... __________________ National Net Hosting. Handled. See our new line of inexpensive Dedicated Servers \| Cabinets starting at $795 \| CDN [email protected] \| 888-4-NATNET \| www.nationalnet.com

10-31-2002, 08:21 AM	#27
WmCgi Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pattaya, Royal Clif Garden 1078, Posts: 32	Use Protector Pro ! It's the best ! full stats automate block\unblock passes ip zones limit traffic limit bruteforce attak's protect unlimeted sites and unlimitet logins only for $33 i can get demo passes just mail me : [email protected] Link: Protector PRO __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Last edited by WmCgi; 10-31-2002 at 08:23 AM..

10-29-2002, 11:14 PM	#2
Sambuka Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: - Posts: 500	That program might be good but Pennywize is some kickass software, I just updated to there new version and it works perfectly. Deleted 5 passes first day, 13 the next day and 3 today. I have lots of members And I think there new version blocks proxy dictionary attacks by accessdivers etc. (I think). Its a pretty cheap price too check it out. www.pennywize.com Sammy

10-29-2002, 11:25 PM	#3
Shark Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 205	Sammy, I'm just wondering whats causing all these members to be deleted? It seems to be a large amount, whats your ?threshold? of IP addresses set at ?

10-29-2002, 11:41 PM	#5
daddynastee Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 310	HAR!

10-30-2002, 12:07 AM	#7
spaceman73 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 59	Thanks Sambuka, I had a look at Pennywise also. It seemed good, but I so far I had my eyes more on Password Sentry. But Pennywise seems really good also, I guess I'll decide based on the feedback I get here. So far people seem to be using other programs. Thanks Drunk dollars, I'll check that one out, haven't heard of it as much. Shark as I can see you have some experiences with that kind of program, which one do you use ? What threshold of IP adresses would you be setting usually ? HAHAHAHA Spoonie Luv, you just prove to me that I am going to be part of this board much more from now on. It's things like that which make it so interesthing, interraction, teasing, and no-hold barred subject. Thanks for these quick reply, more more... Jon

10-30-2002, 12:09 AM	#8
Danielle Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: My Coffin Posts: 1,227	Stop That Hacker works great! http://www.stopthathacker.com Plus it's on sale right now. Hugs, Danielle

10-30-2002, 12:16 AM	#9
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	i've used both packages, and have to say that pw sentry is tops in our book... aside from weirdness we've experienced w/ pennywize (crashing scripts, etc.) pw sentry is a much more solid solution we have found. dan will even install and tweak it on your server for you free of charge, and has never taken more than 8 hours to respond to any inquiries from us... when we emailed pennywize for support, it was over 30 hours before we even received a cursory response... ymmv, but i doubt it... pw sentry rocks all around..

10-30-2002, 12:31 AM	#10
Cindyff Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,187	Before you go signing up for a monthly service take a look at Bot Buster. We put this up on 10 sites and it works like a dream. Full control of IP addresses passwords members. I havent seen anything as good at the price. Oh you can buy this for each site for around $150 per site thats around 3 monthly payments for these other programs? http://www.botbuster.com

10-30-2002, 09:42 AM	#11
Argoz Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Qc Posts: 3,006	Password Sentry or Pennywize ? Hummmmmmmm Pixhell

10-30-2002, 10:04 AM	#12
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	pw sentry does not have a monthly charge like pennywize does, it is a one-time payment..

10-30-2002, 10:08 AM	#13
Argoz Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Qc Posts: 3,006	Yes, good point chupacabra ! Password Sentry = 2 Pennywize = 1 BotBusters = 1 Stop That Hacker = 1 Pixhell

10-30-2002, 10:36 AM	#15
Argoz Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Qc Posts: 3,006	Thanks for you reply sweetcuties. Password Sentry = 3 Pennywize = 1 BotBusters = 1 Stop That Hacker = 1 Pixhell

10-30-2002, 10:42 AM	#16
hitman699 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 159	I use password sentry and it works great.

10-30-2002, 05:04 PM	#17
spaceman73 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 59	Thanks for all your reply, look like password sentry got a good reputation. Thanks for all your recommendation, I like the one-off payment, and if it does the same as all the other, then it will be a good deal. Thanks Jon

10-30-2002, 08:07 PM	#19
some_idiot Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Doesn't matter, I'm not buying you another pint! Posts: 1,511	Use them to your advantage! Redirect the username in you .htaccess to a pay per click program.

10-31-2002, 12:50 AM	#20
spaceman73 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 59	Thank you again everyone. LBBV you just mentionned something that I heard from Pennywise also, about preventing Brute Force. Look like this is an imprtant issue in my decision. However, when I asked Password Sentry I get an answer saying that they don't provide protection against directory/brut force attacks. That they did before but found that such CGI-Perl based strategies were flawed, that it made the web server crash during intense attacks - especially when the cracker ("password guesser") spoofs (fakes) their IP address (often rotating through IPs every 3-5 guesses). And that in this case it's also uneffective because their program just switch IP constantly. But they say that you can use other server-friendly strategies. Also that you might even end up blocking good users or traffic that use IP's which varies dynamically. (AOL ect..) So now I am probably more mess-up than before, but at less I start to understand better. What are peoples toughts on that? With ot without Brutal Force protection ? Thanks again to everyone. Jon

10-31-2002, 01:13 AM	#21
Petr Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 502	Jon, definitely brute force protection. There is a way of how to recognize a legitimate proxy (like AOL, etc.). BTW if anyone is interested, we are finishing up our own system - http://www.passprotector.com which combines a member area protection with a member are management (adding/removing members, etc.). All the software has been tested for the last two months on all our sites (http://everycent.com) with excellent results... I will save more info for the upcoming one-time announcement... ;)

10-31-2002, 01:55 AM	#22
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	IProtect is the most effective prog out there but only if you have full access to your server. It will be compiled into apache and therefore will not slow down your site at all. http://www.digital-concepts.net/cgi-iprotect.html It is 500 bucks and for a new paysite owner it might be a little steep but it is really cool. I use it since 98 and I actually submit to passwordsiters to get the additional traffic to send to toplists.

10-31-2002, 06:11 AM	#24
Sambuka Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: - Posts: 500	Sammy, I'm just wondering whats causing all these members to be deleted? It seems to be a large amount, whats your ?threshold? of IP addresses set at ? I have all my sites set at 10-12 subnets before blocking, it doesn't seem to block any real members just blocks posted passwords. Here is yesterdays stats : 4 members deleted. User: slutters Subnets : 17 Hits 1136 Bytes Downloaded : 4081307 Minutes online : 50 Detected 13 different subnets DISABLED. User: MrBrownXX SUBNETS: 48 hits : 3047 Bytes : 11430960 Minutes : 140 Detected 13 different subnets DISABLED. obt 11 943 3743583 46 Detected 11 different subnets Bisto 11 889 3100461 36 Detected 11 different subnets Here are some others from 2 days ago MrBrownXX 47 3594 13301232 154 Detected 13 different subnets Hrmm, I haven't really had a good look through this in awhile and it seems like I have 3-4 passwords that are the exact same being deleted each day. I'll have to change the .htaccess so it goes to my own frontpages instead of the pennywize blank page. Should make me a few extra signups a day with 3000-4000 traffic hitting me each day. i'll let them continue to hack those same passes Sammy

10-31-2002, 07:05 AM	#25
pennywize_v3 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 55	Hi Spaceman, Steve from Pennywize here. We have a big new launch on the 1st of November with Pennywize v3.0. We believe it is the best release yet, with a new brute force blocking method and much faster account detection and blocking. Because we have gone through a period of fairly high growth, we are currently in the process of establishing dedicated support personnell to handle the growing amount of requests/installs we do. Anyway Jon you can try Pennywize for FREE on your server and if you like it, great. If not then try something else, but you're lost nothing by at least trying Pennywize! I am confident once you try it you will be happy. Thanks mate, Steve Pennywize.

10-31-2002, 08:13 AM	#26
spaceman73 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 59	Wow, I just can't believ how this board rocks. Thanks again everyone for your and great explanation. Thanks andi_germany, I have full access to my server but at 500$ I'll have to wait a bit more, this expense was a bit unexpected, as I tought the previous owner would have had one already. But sounds really good, one day hopefully. Thanks Petr, will it be launch soon. I have to decide in the next day or so? Thanks again LLBV, your comments have been really appreciated so far. You in-house program sounds really really interething. IS it possible to get it even if I am hosted elsewhere ? Thanks Steve, I"m definetely considering trying Pennywise, does your free trial include de Brute force protection ? Thanks Everyone Jon