why would the person who paid to shoot the straight hardcore content be fucked? Gallery people (like me) buy licenced content like that all the time for TGPs. They end up selling more in many cases. Use your fucking brain and just sell something else, if you have someone's attention you can sell something. Read a playboy, it's full of ads for cigerettes, stereos, cars, booze, etc. they sell ADS. You don't have to only sell porn, the only reason you think this is cause you're just having a major brain fart on this issue.


i just loaded thehun - I saw penis enlargement, viagra, (legal age) teen movie, webcams, a dating service, a sextoy store, and other stuff. you don't have to sell pics and advertisers know that.

Right on! Can you please contact me on ICQ (#91603384)

too much free porn.

not enough free porn

Oh, yes , since You were interested with stats.

I run extreme sites, forced sex fantasy, that's why I keep staying incognito here so to say.

One of 5 largest TGPs out there , I wont disclose which one, used to work , or still works, with us.
Of course they bring good money and earn good money.

But nowhere close to what real good toplist operators in the same niche as ours do.

A toplist owner with 10 times less traffic than a TGP still earns about 3-5 times more than TGPs.

Also, in case You're interested, high trials (like 9$ per three days or even 11$ per three days) is the way to go.

We started using them back in 99 I think.
And it's been great. Because with high trials surfer thinks that Your site:
a) different than others
b) BETTER than others and therefore a lot of them just by seeing higher price on trial buys month membership straight away.

I have recommended this to a lot of paysite operators , in various including totally MAINSTREAM PORN niches and it always works great. So if You havent experimented with this - try it.

My niche is by the way one of the reasons why I dislike TGPs so much. You see, my idea is that any GOOD porn should sell.
Problem is - it just isnt so.

I've experimented and invested quite a lot - almost in vain. Surfers just dont want to pay for good normal porn.
And that is why I dont see why I should quit my niche, why should I ? I dont break any laws when TGPs break a lot of them (really , just think about copyright laws) so I wont work with normal mainstream porn as long as it means assuming bend over position and working for pennies thanks to TGPs untill either I am forced to or there's another way.

You see, it's not a problem to make money with TGP. Of course You do make some. Question is - how much for what You do.

Blah, Blah. Let's seem some stats :)

fucking coward russian won't address my post

Sleazy, You problem is that You dont have a clue.
Honestly.

But lets keep our mutual disliking and insultings in the other thread. :) Or we'll fuck this one, which has started so good.

What You say is just the SAME what I do. You cant sell mainstream porn content from the TGP right?

So what You say is "dont sell mainstream porno from a TGP since You cant - sell something else"
What I say is "it's wrong that You are not able to sell mainstream porn" I dont say what You should do - I dont care.

I just say that TGPs hurt mainstream porn a lot and that's all.

As for what You do, selling AFF ( by the way they wanted to promote us once beleive it or not, it was a good laugh on both ends) I think it's lame, why? Because how much You make?
I understand it's enough for You, but try to understand that MAY BE You have not evaluated Your time right, may be , just think for one second, if not for TGP You'd be making 10 times more because normally PORN should sell BEST.
Unless it's offered for free.

Hope You see my point.

Do You remember an FTC scandal when they frozen MaxCash money? Do You remember the summ? 37 millions $ if I remember right and correct me if I'm wrong.
Do You understand that in mainstream normal porn like MaxCash for example, no one is even close to those amounts nowdays anymore? And guess why, cause people dont pay for usual good porn any longer.

You thought I envy Hun. I didnt. I envy those 37 millions.
And You should too.

what stats would You like?

a. you have no idea what I make so You're talking out of your ass there. You're just making pie in the sky assumptions.

b. your OBSESSION on selling porn shows your own stupidity

c, 37 million is POCKET change for a site like friend finder. they have in excess of 160 full time employees in their offices alone and are more profitable than MOST porn sites.

d. maxcash had more people in TGP than anything else selling their stuff duuuu

e. if porn should sell best then why do playboys (and old ones too) have next to no porn ads in them?? duuuuuu

f. who gives a fuck it you think it's wrong that you can't sell porn?

The ones that show you making real money.

Which governement?

If the US made it illegal to have a free porn site, suddenly free porn sites would spring up all over the world. What is the US going to do about porn sites in other countries? The most trafficed TGP's in the world are not even ran in the USA.

we need more free porn, and better quality free porn

FREE PORN RULES!
I wish there were more free porn out there. Can every paysite PLEASE stop charging? I would like to get into all of your sites for free. OK?

LOL

a) I dont have to.
b) & f) man I'm in online porn industry, usually people sell porn in it. You know pics whith naked gals.
c) You probably dont make money, ask anyone who does, 37 mil. is not pocket money for anyone.
d) man , TGP's have occupied this much of traffic and place only in recent 3 years , before that it just started, when the FTC scandal happened?
e) What does offline magazine biz have to do with online? And I kinda miss it, do they offer Playboy for free in USA? Should move there I guess, cause it costs money here.

Also have You heard that Penthouse was loosing a lot of money this year? Or the last one, I dont remember, although I do remember whom they blamed officially - online porn. Guess why? Must be paysites right, TGPs with tons of free porn have nothing to do with it right?

OnTime knock me on ICQ 43432801

According to our porn lawyer in Germany, we had to hire one because we work with dialers there, officially You cant have a free porn site in Germany - there should be an age verification.
But it doesnt seem that they prosecute anyhow for it though.

my God, you're absolutly right and everyone is going to change their entire business models just cause you're such a genious!

you're correct, I make no money. I'm poor as a church mouse and I live in my parent's basement. Why I'm typing this on GFY right now from a modified webTV internet thing that i found in someone's garbage can down the street. I was able to pipe into my neighbor's internet account and avoid paying the monthly access fee by only working late at night like this. Maybe someday I'll be able to make a penny or two like you but for now there just doesn't seem to be a future in this for me but I'm soo hooked on porn that I can't stop.

that make you feel better fool?

fuck my bandwidth bill is probally more than your whole country's gross nation product.............

It is true that you have to do something different these days just to get noticed.

Hornymoney is based on the idea that you have to have a niche within a niche. Tatgirls for example is in the niche of amateur girls and the sub niche of tattoos, Piercings and body art.

I do well with it, and it offers No trials. No tricks. No changing prices if you stand on your head. Just $24.97 per month.

I see sites out there that are selling 1.95 trials which convert into 59.99 a month memberships. That?s just fucking stealing and will create high chargeback?s.





I can see the point of view that free porn is hurting the business, but you should also think about how paysites are hurting the business themselves.


DemonWolfe?s Story Of Johnny Surfer
-----------------------

If I am Johnny surfer and I am at my favorite TGP and I see a gallery which has banners to a paysite, I might not click it simply because last time I clicked one it opened so many browser windows it crashed my computer.

I (as Johnny surfer) don't know how to press Alt F4, so I?ve been stuck in windows that wont even close. I was very scared that it would crash my computer and I got so frustrated that I had to turn it off.

Then I (as Johnny surfer) finally signup for a great looking lesbian site, which only cost me $2.95 for 3 days. The lesbian site says it has over 1 million pictures. Wow, I am excited. Only once I go inside I find the site only has a few hundred lesbian pictures, and all the rest are the pictures from all the other niches the paysite also sells. Gee, that sucks.

So after 2 days I cancel my membership because I am only looking for a site which has lesbians, not bdsm shemales in undies getting pissed on. Then I (As Johnny surfer) get a BIG surprise a month later on my next credit card bill and find out that I was billed $59.99 because I didn't cancel my 3 day trial within 24 hours.

Gee, now I (as Johnny surfer) am all sorts of pissed off at "paysites" so I stick to surfing the TGP's and jerking off to free porn pictures. But wait, I see sites which look like paysites and they offer me a free membership with no strings attached. They just need my email.

So I (as Johnny surfer) sign up for this great free membership. I get my password and go to sign in to this great free site but I get hit with auto installing dialers. I press cancel but it disconnects me from the net anyway and dials a foreign number over my modem. I get scared so I turn off my computer.

Now I (as Johnny surfer) get 30 emails everyday with links to porn sites which cost money but it doesn't matter because I (as Johnny surfer) am too afraid to click any of them or join any of them because bad things always happen to me.

Hm. That's an interesting point.
Whats Your bandwidth bill ?

I decided to look on mine.
Lets see , I got 4 servers + 1 piece of protective hardware.
2 servers on Rackspace + that protective shit + servers on Maxim.

Lets see for september on rackspace:
1st server + protective crap: $5,121.97
2nd server : $5,412.30

And total for two servers on Maxim: $4425.36

So my total badwidth bill is: $14959,63
Interesting info for myself by the way. Damn I should probably start saving on this crap.

Oh, by the way, free resources that we have are 2 servers out of those 4 which are used as a free hosting for our webmasters.
So the rest of it is bandwidth for payed customers of paysites and dialers only.

But You're right, that's less than my countries gross natural product.
Wonder what You do to have such big bandwidth bills. Told You - stay out of TGP and You didnt listen.

Hm. Lets suppose I am Smith paysite webmaster in mainstream porn - lesbians. I hate forced sex fantasies , bestiality, and I am not that smart to make a bangbus, because a genious like that appears once in a thousand years and even bangbus phsycological idea is based on women humiliation and therefore offends me too.

So.

I (as Smith) build a good lesbian paysite.
I have to pay 3K for a server.
Than I need pics.

So I buy lesbian pics from zmaster and zip content.
I need videos and I also buy them there.
I spend 4K.

I pay 2K for design.

I pay 15% to billing companies for processing and 10% as a hold and 50% to webmasters so they at least take a look at my site.

Now I get Johny on my site who says: 3$ trial for 3 days per me is enough , because I saw all this pics all over the net on TGPs and also because of this I feel myself fucked - please refund me 3 dollars cause I am duying of hunger here otherwise this is fraud and I will chargeback.

So I go to zMaster and ask them - do You license Your pics to be posted on TGPs by those who buy them? And they answer me - no of course not, we license our packs to 10 domains only. But we cant control it because TGPs legally seem to be not responcible for what is posted there and get no real information about posters to use for prosecution. Moreover, since our content is all over the net - no one, but You stupid Smith , is buying it any longer because no one needs it, we dont get money, we dont shoot more content and we dont have financial power to at least try to prosecute for our pictures.

I already spent 9K on my lesbian paysite.
I understand I need fresh unseen content - so I go to private photographers and ask them how much is fresh exclusive stuff and find out that it is approximately 1-5$ per picture and I am lucky it's lesbians, because hardcore is more expencive.

So I spend 20K more on content just to get 5-10 000 pics and a few movies with all discounts for a big purchase.

I continue to promote with my best friends on ICQ as my 5 webmasters my lesbian paysite and I find out that out of 20 000 surfers who sees my site whom I get daily from days and days of the most difficult and time taking job - TGP promotion , I get 5 sales per day as a maximum.
I also see that out of those 5 sales maximum only 2 as a maximum will get rebilled for 30$ per month.
Therefore my income per day is 69$.
I see that even if it was 100$ per day, my month income would be about 3000$ so it wont be enough to pay for hosting and content more.

I understand that I spent 29K on this lesbian paysite. I have to earn them back.

I look attentive at the problem and understand that I need more sales - therefore more webmasters because I alone am unable to do the job 200 people are needed for.

So I get 20K more and spend it on each webmasters board for an button there for 2-3K per month.

A lot of webmasters come and I start getting 100 sales per day.
Which means, 50 rebills - 1500$ + 50*3= 1750 per day.
Which is 52500 turnover monthly.

But then I find out that to keep chargebacks at minimum with the amount of emails I get from 100 sales per day from Johnies, I need a live customer support , with the amount of password hacking and fucking competitors and such traffic I need a live admin , and I need to pay them salaries so someone has to count my money cause I dont have time and they need to sit somewhere so they need an office and my traffic has of course raised as mentioned so the bandwidth bill has grown and damn it...I got to pay 50% to webmasters , 15% to billing company , 10% as a hold so what's left?

25% out of 52500 = $13125 to cover 3 people salaries, office fees and bandwidth.
So how much did I earn per month? May be 5K$ if i am extremely lucky and my work motto#1 is "fuck off if You need a raise" and #2 "always fuck off".
And I spent 49K just to enter this biz.

So I look at the job done, give it a second thought and I think, what the fuck?

I fire my customer service so I dont give a flying fuck about if surfers get occasionally or almost always rebilled against their wish cause it makes me a bit more, I buy a shaving program and pay less webmasters, I start selling emails of all my surfers to make an extra buck there and I never buy original content any longer for lesbians cause I understood that in matter of 100 signups a day from people You gonna rebill anyway You dont give a fuck what kind of lesbians they wanna see - the cheaper the better, and of course I promise them eternal heaven on earth in my tour.

And I end with at least 10-15K as a salarie and wait for 3 monthes to get my 49K at least back.
And never try to work honest fucking ever.

And You know what ? This all is so, just because no one needs to pay for lesbians any longer because thanks to TGPs everyone has them for free nowdays.

I'm a very small webmistress but for me it seems to be a very realistic scenario...

I get e-mails from surfers with questions like:

- am I really 'real' and is it really me on the pictures
- are there any hidden charges
- will they really get all the stuff (pics/other camshows/my 'extra site') with no further charges
- is it really easy to cancel when they sign up

when I reply... they usually sign up...
Seems they must have had some bad experiences before...

Marie

Traffics King.

Once you understand that you'll have all the answers!

Marie I couldnt have said it any better myself. I try to stick to honest sites who can make an honest living so I can honestly promote them and keep my surfers comming back and buying month after month. If they find one good paysite they like from you and decide to cancle later on...they will return and if you hit them up with another good honest offer, they will buy yet again.

Cheers.

This is 100% right. :)

It's easier to blame the TGP's and say they're ruining our sales than it is to admit we pushed so many crappy sites down the surfers throat in search of that wonderful $35 per signup that they no longer think paysites are worth anything because every single paysite they signed up for sucked big donkey balls.

You didn't factor in the following:

NEGATIVE: programmer costs to trap user info

POSITIVE: Cash flow from exit traffic, upsells, and email marketing to trapped user emails.

I think the Russian is a Muslim terrorist that's mad that he cann't make enough money to pay his piddly little bandwidth bill.


hahahahahahaha