Yep, but most affiliates are like the models. Give them two options:

1. Get a bunch of money today, once, that's it.
2. Get a share and alot more money long term.

They'll always pick 1. They ignore basic maths. It's all about big, catchy numbers.

I have ran paysites and I work as an affiliate for over 10 years. I do very well, because I chose my sponsors by profitability on a revshare model.

My point is: why send traffic to a site that will give me a very small amount of money for 1 join when they produce 3 or 4 joins (and several rebills)? If I have a surfer and I can potentially sell him 3 or 4 sites, I will do that and get my revshare from all of them and make much more than 35 or 200$ off of his wallet. Besides I can sleep well, because the surfer really wanted to join the sites and will come back to me to get advise about other sites he could join because I guided him to content he wanted.

In most cases the current model of Xsales is based on deceiving a surfer. Those Xsales are hidden and they do not receive information about canceling policy before they signup. That's not a honest way of doing business and it is very bad for the reputation of our industry. Such surfers will most likely never join a paysite again and resort to illegal tube sites to get their daily fix than lose money on another ripoff site.

A few years back I ran a small chat studio in Prague and we had guys spend thousands of Dollars every month. Needless to say I would be stupid to accept a PPS model for a cam site.

First off the current model is the SAME MODEL THAT HAS BEEN USED FOR XSELLS FOR YEARS. That's what is blowing my mind about this stuff. You guys all act like it's something new.

And I have yet to see a x-sell that didn't have all the terms spelled out on the same page, including how much it will rebill for and when that will happen if not canceled.. What I call "using a scroll bar" is what these assclowns call "hidden". I don't see it like that at all. Yes, you do want a surfer to miss it when they sign up. BUT, every x-sell sends an email at the same time the host paysite sends it's email. And that email tells the member how long his trial is, when the rebill hits, the name that will appear on their credit card AND a link to a support page to cancel.

And since you were around for so long...why didn't you realize this about x-sells 5 or 10 years ago?

And where was everybody back when dialers were downloaded onto surfers at every big traffic site that stole MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars from people and made a lot of the original guys in internet porn millionaires who retired before 2000?

And where was everybody back when every big affiliate program was throwing 500 popups to other programs so hard that it shut down the surfers machine as well as downloaded dialers, Zango, and other shit?

And a ONE DOLLAR trial that rebills in 2 to 3 days that is clearly visible and sends an email to the member is "shady" "stealing" "crooked" and "destroying the business" No fucking way.

As you say all those questionable methods became history. Policy makers stopped dialer abuse because of those idiots that made millions with them by ripping people off and that is what makes it difficult for many of us to find accepted billing solutions in countries like Spain and Germany who would be good for very solid revenue. Just because a couple of shady characters abused the system, it makes business more difficult today!

You say they send out emails ... but how do you know these emails arrive? All serious programs and billing companies provide links to a cancel page before they signup to inform a consumer about his rights in advance. Programs that don't do this and use fineprint on the very bottom of a page to disguise xsells are shady in my book.

Write it on top of the signup button and in the same letter size like the rest of the page and I would say xsells are fine for me as long as the revenue is shared with the affiliate if he is on revshare. Xsales that are not shared with a revshare affiliate are fraud against the affiliate because he chose revshare and not PPS!

Are you serious? :1orglaugh

I made more money in this industry long before PPS was even an option.

No matter how you want to look at it, pre check cross sales only work on those who don't know what they are, don't see them, etc. Maybe the odd person is interested in joining 2 other sites they have never seen before at the same time as joining another but very few. As for dialers, i was there. It lasted like 6 months before the ftc stepped in and stopped it, for US traffic at least.

Because I've done plenty of x-sells myself. The emails are sent from the same NATS email form as every other email we send out. AND I have done plenty of test sales with affiliate programs to confirm it for myself. Perhaps if some of these surfers on GFY posing as webmasters has a credit card they would do the same.
So you are saying that after you sent a surfer to a paysites' tour...which means you did your job...and then the paysite itself has such good content and a kick ass tour that THEY get that surfer to not only the first page but the SECOND page of the join (which means that this person has now made the decision to join the site YOU promoted and is now basically becoming a member of that site)...
You're saying that you think we as affiliates should be able to reach our hand out and "share" in the backend profit of the paysite?

Well, I don't. I don't think I have any rights to that money. And I don't think the paysite owner has any rights to make me have to split the cost of a DECLINE if the surfers card doesn't work. Or the extra $55 that the bank will charge the paysite if that surfer does a chargeback.

We don't have to "share" in all those expenses including the processing fee of 6 to 7 dollars a pop. So why the fuck should we "share" in the backend profit?

That's just insane. And yet typical for the drama of this board.

The best part of all this is nobody on here really knows how hard is to cancel all these cross sales because even webmasters are afraid to join these sites :1orglaugh

No, it lasted for YEARS my friend. I could tell you things you wouldn't believe...but I won't on a forum. You are right though about it lasting long past the time it was shut down in the U.S. Hell, if it weren't for broadband it would still be happening today.

BULLSHIT. I join sites I promote all the time just to see for myself. I get emails with links to the same exact support pages as every other member of the site I get x-sold to. It's quick and easy. Your just making up shit. Go join a site and see for yourself. I am assuming of course that you have a credit card.

Oh.....and: FIDDY DUMBASSES THAT DON"T REALLY KNOW HOW XSELLS WORK OR HOW LONG THEY"VE BEEN USED IN MAINSTREAM AND ADULT

Personally the industry would make more money long term without the prechecked cross sales. Even if PPS was lowered $5-$10, it would be made up for it in much higher conversion rates.

But the cats out of the bag. Most people know giving a credit card to a porn site is a huge risk. Even if a bunch of sites changed their way of doing things, the public perception is too strong to change. It's a short sighted industry and we are seeing a lot of people bail out of the sinking ship. You are seeing companies buy up other programs, squeeze as much juice out of it as they can, and let it die.

if they advertise a revshare program as 50% of all sales or rebills and I join their program on the revshare terms they set out by themselves, yes, I should be getting the percentage on all sales! Otherwise they don't get my traffic, or at least not as much as they could. There are a couple of programs that do share upsells and xsells. They do very well for me and I put more effort into them.

I don't care if they have a link section in their members area to generate more sales from. They can keep that additional income. But if their main business is to sell other sites because their own site has a great tour but virtually no content the affiliate should participate in this because he was promised a revshare!

I see that this has become a common business model, but I simply don't like to be fooled by programs who do not live up to their promises!

Regarding the emails ... I think if people miss the xsales in the first place they will not know that there is email waiting for them in their inbox, so when they finally check their mail it might be to late to cancel. That aside, many email providers will sort out such emails as spam. Since the consumer does not know where the email is coming from they don't even have a possibility to white list the sender.

Again...when I send traffic to a revshare program I am entitled to revshare what I make for promoting that site. Not what they make on their backend. NO business in this world does that. Not the grocerystore, not car dealerships, not the hardware store, etc. Backend is STRICTLY for the owner.

As for emails....the email is sent simultaneously with the email you get from the host site. So YES, I join a site I get an immediate email from the site I just joined. I am told when I join that I have been sent an email. So I check my email box and HEY, there are TWO emails from sites I just joined. So "yes" they do see them.

Why not just go join one of the paysites you promote that uses pre-checks? That's what I did for dozens of them. Bought a trial membership, cost me a buck. Left the pre-check on, cost me another dollar. Went and canceled them immediately and tested them out.

If you do that and everything works as I said it should...then you know they are good to go.

If anything doesn't work like I'm saying...then simply stop promoting that site. No need for all this fucking drama on here.

These kind of threads are doing nothing but sabotaging our own business.

I would be more than happy to share the charge backs with a good sponsor. I just checked my CCbill stats for the past 2 months and there were 4 charge backs in a nice 4 digit number of transactions. If I send bad traffic to a sponsor I should have this deducted from my earnings as I am partly responsible for this.

Looks like I am like that I found a couple of programs that do pay for u/x/psells.

Yes, My mom let me have a credit card. Dude, I've been making a living off the internet for nearly a decade, mainstream and now recently adult, so there's no need to talk to me like some noob. But I can understand why you wouldn't know that because I don't use every thread to boast about how awesome I am and how much money I make like you do. Not sure why you are trying to call me out when I made a pretty accurate statement.

Look, so you join these sites. Good for you. But from the responses on these threads you must be the only one. Because not one person has come on here and said "I joined XYZ site and this or that happened". You would think at least ONE FUCKING PERSON would join and post their experience with all this shit flying around.

No..you are NOT "sharing" in the chargeback.

You are getting the money deducted that you MADE on that sale when a chargeback occurs. You are NOT "sharing" the biller fee of 6 to 7 dollars (depending on which processor in the cascade) and you are definitely NOT sharing the $55 fee that the bank charges us for every chargeback on TOP of the money lost from the sale being bad.

So when we get a chargeback for claudia-marie.com, I end up eating $34.99 for the sale lost. Plus 55 dollars. For a nice total cost of $89.99 You don't share ANY of that cost.

Nor any of the other costs of business that I have to put out. Hosting, shooting, paying talent, editing, 10 to 12 hours a day of working, legal fees, costs associated with 2257, the list is fucking endless.

I apologize for that.

And as for one person posting their experiences...I did. I have joined them. I always have since 1998. I always want to know what I'm promoting. Yes, I already have user/pass to every site that I request it for, but I still like to join on my own. I don't tell the program owner that I'm doing it. I just do it. And "no" I don't use my own affiliate code to test them LOL

You need to start reading posts before you reply. I said I would be more than happy to shoulder my part of a charge back if I would need to! I would also be fine to promote sites on 10% or 20% revshare if the site has quality content and is not over exposed. It could still be killer business! It's up to a program owner to set a payout. Don't ask me why they offer so much for affiliates. They are insane to spend more money on affiliates than on content and backend!

Try not to lump everyone in to the same basket mmkay? Kthxbye. :disgust

I was reading. I was responding to this part of your post: "I just checked my CCbill stats for the past 2 months and there were 4 charge backs in a nice 4 digit number of transactions."

I took that to mean that you were thinking you were sharing in a chargeback, and I was trying to point out that you're not.

And I don't think how much we pay affiliates has anything to do with x-sells. I like to make as much money as I possibly can with my work. I try to monetize what I do in every way possible. Don't you? I would use a x-sell whether or not an affiliate was involved or not. Make as much money as I can.

I know I am not participating in the chargeback fees, but I would be fine to pay for them. If the programs agree to cover them without asking for a share .... it's their decision, but I would be more than happy to pay my part.

I try to work hard and get a reasonable reward for my efforts. To have happy customers is the most important thing for me. They will come back to me over and over again.