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davidd 08-29-2008 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gouge (Post 14681081)
Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay where not farmers.

sar·casm Audio Help (sär'kāz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
3. The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.



It should have been clear from "simple writings" + "hick farmers".

TheDoc 08-29-2008 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog (Post 14681011)
Too much glitz and glamour with no substance.

He claims he'd lower taxes for middle america, yet as senator he voted 94 times to raise taxes..

$150 billion to invest into alternative energy? That money has to come from somewhere.
Increase military spending? That money needs to come from somewhere.

He also outright lied.. He claims he would uphold the second amendment, yet his entire political career he's been 100% anti gun.

Also, keep in mind the potential of war with Iran. The US has slightly under 3 million combined armed forces while Iran has 12.5 million. Obama made it very clear that he wouldn't hesitate.

He has also voted in tax cuts and IRS changes.

150 billion over 10 years, not today. That comes from correcting Gov programs that are sucking all the money away and a war that is triple sucking it away, and taxing companies the right way. A conservative Gov view.

With guns, he has voted on gun limitations and bans, if you read them they are targeted around pushing for the States right to choose. He is fine with retired Police having concealed weapons, so he can't be totally anti-gun.

We won't be going to war with Iran or Russia. First, Iran it wouldn't be us doing it, it would be the United Nations. And we have no reason to attack Russia, we couldn't lie our way into Georgia if we tried.

rayadp05 08-29-2008 12:53 AM

Yeah, I saw the speech. Was a great one too. :thumbsup

DatingGold 08-29-2008 12:53 AM

he's a puppet

OY 08-29-2008 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidd (Post 14681107)
No... Too Socialist for me ;) Italy. We have a history of right wing tendencies. I suppose your opinion could be that Evolution has not removed that segment of DNA I guess ;)

Aha... Italian, it all makes sense now. :thumbsup

As for the DNA, your dear friend Adolf (j/k) adopted Norway to become his haven for the breeding of the new arian race - it did not succeed. My DNA took my own turn after that. Oh well, just as well.... lol


Heated discussed/debate is a good thing... Diplomacy should always be the first choice... not the choice of last resort.

SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE DEMOCRAT. GOOD GOING DAVID! I do agree, democrat or not.

I think the large problem is you have not had a chance to share a 40oz or a fine magnum of champagne with me so your assumptions are overriding the reality of the situation. You might just find I am one of the most "extreme" freedom loving person you have met. To which I will accept the title of "extremist". The audacity of Liberty (big L) we will call it.

I will take that as an invitation and I look forward to it David. How is Amsterdam in September to you?

Again, look at my bold quotes above... Going to bed now :)

spacedog 08-29-2008 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 14681134)
With guns, he has voted on gun limitations and bans, if you read them they are targeted around pushing for the States right to choose. He is fine with retired Police having concealed weapons, so he can't be totally anti-gun.

Do you believe in fairy tales too?

http://www.nraila.org/obama/
http://www.nraila.org/images/obamachange.jpg

seeric 08-29-2008 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DatingGold (Post 14681149)
he's a puppet

everyone is a whore to something. everyone.


:2 cents:

TheDoc 08-29-2008 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog (Post 14681171)
Do you believe in fairy tales too?

I believe what I see he voted on, what the vote was for, and not the ideas of views of someone that thinks pictures make a point.

spacedog 08-29-2008 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 14681190)
I believe what I see he voted on, what the vote was for, and not the ideas of views of someone that thinks pictures make a point.

No pictures.


But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don?t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.


FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and ?research.?8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...1&vote =00219)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in ?Obama had greater role on liberal survey,? Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...1&vote =00217)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...common-se.html)

5. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004 SB 2165, vote 20.

6. ?Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record.? Obama ?08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck...n_obamas_c.php)

7. ?Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,? Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_560181.html)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

9. ?Obama and Gun Control,? The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. ?Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,? Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioio...n_edwards.html)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, ?Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,? February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/b..._on_shoot.html)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: ?As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .? (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ur...aw-enforcement.)

15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Bara...un_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004.

16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.

davidd 08-29-2008 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 14681156)
As for the DNA, your dear friend Adolf (j/k) adopted Norway to become his haven for the breeding of the new arian race - it did not succeed. My DNA took my own turn after that. Oh well, just as well.... lol

I will ignore the above comment. Do not arm yourself with the normal tactics are painting people bigots/racists/supremacists because of differing view points. Regardless, fine breed stock in Scandinavia... I can not deny that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 14681156)
SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE DEMOCRAT. GOOD GOING DAVID! I do agree, democrat or not.

Spoken like a Republican (pre-Bush) Have you forgotten Ronald Reagan? I do not recall any bullets/nukes being fired at the Russians to end the cold war. Review the party of each president during every war of the 20th century... It is enlightening and should illustrate the "rebranding" and "white washing" (no pun intended) of history.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Oystein (Post 14681156)
I will take that as an invitation and I look forward to it David. How is Amsterdam in September to you? Again, look at my bold quotes above... Going to bed now :)

I will be sure to take my wire brush... as I might need a 'Silkwood Shower' to feel clean again ;)

TheDoc 08-29-2008 01:17 AM

Ugg... copy paste. BTW, I support half that shit.


FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. ? Do you need English interpretation skills?? He voted AGAINST the Justices who happen to support the right to bear arms.. Not BECAUSE they support the right to bear arms. More likely, he voted against them for another reason, likely they were pro-Life. That?s like saying ?You voted against a man who supports and believes in Christianity? You must be a devil worshiper!!?

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1 - Really?? To actually bankrupt the gun industry. Cigarette companies and Healthcare industries suffer from reckless lawsuits, and they are far from bankrupt. I will admit, if you are an NRA supporter this isn?t what you want.

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15 ? Was this the ban on assault weapons?? He might have voted for it while legislator for Southside Chicago.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3 ? Ban it where, on the streets of Chicago?? Within 500 yards of a school? Research people.

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9 ? If true, that?s high. But if the current Federal Excise tax is say $10, it?d be raised to only $50 on a gun. Smokers get taxed out the ass, would the net amount be higher or lower than cigarettes or booze?

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2 - Again probably in Chicago. But I admit I don?t believe an ouitright BAN should be legal. Surprised it held in DC all that time.

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4 See above.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5 Isn?t this the 3rd time in a row they mentioned the same thing.

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6 - We register cars, why not guns.

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case. ? I have no idea what this means & don?t want to look it up.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7 ? Which kind, don?t you need permits & all to carry. Myb this law requested people don?t. Who knows.

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and ?research.?8 ? Boy, these people look like all out gun banning Nazi's...

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9 - Dude, I can drive up to the middle of Pennsylvania and be 20 miles away from a school. Plus, again, it was probably an attempted Chicago law he probably knew it?d get shot down but was hoping for a compromise, like 500 yards or something.

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10 - Maybe this was after a murder happened, police work to find out who nearby owns a .45 or whatever. They do that with cars you know, like when a Silver BMW hits & runs. If you get the first few letters of a license plate, they can sort thru all Silver BMW?s with those 2 letters throughout PA, then narrow it down by weeding out those who live out in Pittsburgh etc? and come down to only a few cars.

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11 ? Maybe to reduce crime in Chicago.

WWC 08-29-2008 01:29 AM

I like the tax cut idea :-)

pocketkangaroo 08-29-2008 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog (Post 14681011)
He claims he'd lower taxes for middle america, yet as senator he voted 94 times to raise taxes..

Actually that's not true. FactCheck.org is a pretty good site for looking up stuff.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2..._trickery.html

I know copy and pasting things from Republican or Democratic blogs are the cool thing to do, but I wish more people would get a mind of their own and come up with their own opinions on the candidates.

Some Guy 08-29-2008 03:10 AM

Obama is going to win. However, Obama is merely a suit and without a team of writers and teleprompters he's completely lost and has absolutely nothing to say. Ever see the guy get asked impromptu questions on key issues? If his answer hasn't already been written for him, he stutters, stammers, and can't come up with a decent reply of his own. Obama is a panderer. His whole campaign functions off of telling people what they want to hear so he'll get elected. Guess what? I can guarantee you that when he does get elected, absolutely nothing will change. And, if it does, it will probably be for the worse.

That being said, I truly hope I'm wrong. I hope the guy can actually deliver on the change he promises to bring us. I also think a black president will be good for our country for a magnitude of reasons.

DWB 08-29-2008 03:16 AM

It was a GOOD presentation, but I can't believe how many people are so easily wooed by a smooth talker. I was not moved at any time other than watching Stevie Wonder play.

DWB 08-29-2008 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1R3K (Post 14681173)
everyone is a whore to something. everyone.

That is the god damn truth right there. :2 cents:

Sarah_Jayne 08-29-2008 03:32 AM

I stayed up until 4am my time to watch it. I think he did a very solid job. I agree that it wasn't amazingly amazing but I think part of that was a calculation. While he wanted to be seen to be respecting the parallel with him and King, he didn't want to be seen to be trying to out do him.

I was going to vote for him anyway but it was nice to hear him speak to my ideals. Though, I don't know who makes up their minds about who to vote for on such speeches. Surely we all know this is the showbiz side of things but I guess some people need that.

seeandsee 08-29-2008 04:05 AM

I jerked on his speech!

selena 08-29-2008 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidd (Post 14680765)
Ugh...

You are being bamboozled. He speaks as well as any Baptist minister in the south... pomp and fluff to fill the pews.

Obama is no Reagan. There is not one substantive comparison that can be made between the two.

I would like to qualify that in terms of I meant solely as a speaker. In simplest terms, as orators, both can/could give me a feeling of hope for our country.

And I do agree with him that we need change, and one hell of a lot of it.

Does he have a viable plan for giving it to us?

I don't know.

That is why I have not and will not decide anything until lots closer to election time. :)

Tat2Jr 08-29-2008 04:44 AM

It was an amazing speech. I just hope the swing states saw what I saw, as my vote really doesn't count in California. Speaking of - I'm thankful that spacedog lives in Alaska.... so vote for John McCain... who gives a fuck? Won't change a thing. Your 3 EVs are red anyway, so knock yourself out.

nation-x 08-29-2008 05:29 AM

As usual, the right wingers here and all over the US will not give credit where credit is due. They will all keep claiming that Obama isn't experienced enough to be president.... blah blah blah. I think the only experience a president needs is the ability to run things in an organized fashion and have the intelligence to utilize the experience of the experts on the issues. It's very important that he choose competent people to help him run things... and he should be open to hearing opposing views.

I don't agree with every position that Obama takes but it is sure as hell alot more then I agree with McCain since he decided to toe the neocon line. What is funny to me is that he hated Romney during the primary and I predict (at 7:59AM EST) that he will pick Romney today to be his VP because he needs help in the west.

Spacedog has no credibility to argue against Obama because he is a proven racist... not long ago he was exposed for running a site called ni**erporn.com (or something like that) that had KKK symbols all over it. Furthermore... I don't think you have to worry about the 2nd amendment issues because they are not even close to being on top of the democrat agenda... things like health care are going to rule the agenda and there won't be time to even address that issue. The NRA has become a joke anyway because they are only a political tool of the right to control voters in the same sense that evangelicals are a tool. I don't support any limits on the 2nd amendment at all... just thought I should state that. I DO support putting people that use an assault weapon in any crime or felons who possess an assault weapon away for life but really... most shootings aren't done with assault weapons anyway.

The biggest reason I support Obama is because he isn't like McCain in the sense that he didn't come from a life of privilege... He is a self made man and I respect that more then anything else. McCain is just like Bush in the sense that his life would have been one of privilege no matter what... McCain can certainly relate with being a POW but he can't relate to being a single parent raising 2 kids on a shitty salary working in a bakery like my wife did. He certainly can't relate to struggling to work his way through college on a PELL grant while working as a cook at a restaurant or temp worker in a factory and having the restaurant/factory cut his hours so much that he loses his apartment and ends up homeless like I did. TWICE. He certainly can't relate to having his job shipped overseas and losing everything after working at the same plant for 25 years like my Dad did. He certainly can't relate to losing his house because of being "stop lossed" after the 4th tour in Iraq and 1 tour in Afghanistan while his wife was laid off back at home while trying to raise their new baby like my friend did. He can't relate to struggle in that sense and he certainly doesn't understand the essence of the American Dream because of it and now that I have attained the American Dream working as a webmaster in the porn industry... I am certainly not going to support the right wing who would LOVE to take that away from me.

I watched the speech on Fox News so I could hear the neocon line right away afterwards... and I wasn't disappointed... Greta was more then happy to spew her bullshit along with every single one of her guests until Midnight.

The Duck 08-29-2008 05:33 AM

You guys are all fools-

Joe BrainCash 08-29-2008 06:20 AM

Questions to Obama haters:

What's your other option? Another 4 years of Republicans? Wow, you really are smart! They have done SOOOOOOOOO much for you over the last 8 years. I mean, your country is in such a better position now than it was before W...NOT!

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.

my 2 cents...

nation-x 08-29-2008 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kandah (Post 14681834)
You guys are all fools-

wow... that was the most intelligent post I read in the thread... umm... not

Fletch XXX 08-29-2008 06:37 AM

yes i did.

best line ever was about mccain not foloowing bin laden to the cave where he is let along "the gates of hell."

I am so tired of hearing republicans and mccain say how far they are willing to go to get Bin Laden, when it so obvious not true.

The best army on the planet cannot even find a single terrorist named Bin Laden, but mccain will chase hi to the fictitious place called hell. I think the army and america look like a joke the longer they are in iraq and never on the trail of thereal Bin laden. (i got family over there on 3-4 tours of iraq)

bring em home.

Great line Barack.

TheSenator 08-29-2008 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nation-x (Post 14681797)
As usual, the right wingers here and all over the US will not give credit where credit is due. They will all keep claiming that Obama isn't experienced enough to be president.... blah blah blah. I think the only experience a president needs is the ability to run things in an organized fashion and have the intelligence to utilize the experience of the experts on the issues. It's very important that he choose competent people to help him run things... and he should be open to hearing opposing views.

I don't agree with every position that Obama takes but it is sure as hell alot more then I agree with McCain since he decided to toe the neocon line. What is funny to me is that he hated Romney during the primary and I predict (at 7:59AM EST) that he will pick Romney today to be his VP because he needs help in the west.

Spacedog has no credibility to argue against Obama because he is a proven racist... not long ago he was exposed for running a site called ni**erporn.com (or something like that) that had KKK symbols all over it. Furthermore... I don't think you have to worry about the 2nd amendment issues because they are not even close to being on top of the democrat agenda... things like health care are going to rule the agenda and there won't be time to even address that issue. The NRA has become a joke anyway because they are only a political tool of the right to control voters in the same sense that evangelicals are a tool. I don't support any limits on the 2nd amendment at all... just thought I should state that. I DO support putting people that use an assault weapon in any crime or felons who possess an assault weapon away for life but really... most shootings aren't done with assault weapons anyway.

The biggest reason I support Obama is because he isn't like McCain in the sense that he didn't come from a life of privilege... He is a self made man and I respect that more then anything else. McCain is just like Bush in the sense that his life would have been one of privilege no matter what... McCain can certainly relate with being a POW but he can't relate to being a single parent raising 2 kids on a shitty salary working in a bakery like my wife did. He certainly can't relate to struggling to work his way through college on a PELL grant while working as a cook at a restaurant or temp worker in a factory and having the restaurant/factory cut his hours so much that he loses his apartment and ends up homeless like I did. TWICE. He certainly can't relate to having his job shipped overseas and losing everything after working at the same plant for 25 years like my Dad did. He certainly can't relate to losing his house because of being "stop lossed" after the 4th tour in Iraq and 1 tour in Afghanistan while his wife was laid off back at home while trying to raise their new baby like my friend did. He can't relate to struggle in that sense and he certainly doesn't understand the essence of the American Dream because of it and now that I have attained the American Dream working as a webmaster in the porn industry... I am certainly not going to support the right wing who would LOVE to take that away from me.

I watched the speech on Fox News so I could hear the neocon line right away afterwards... and I wasn't disappointed... Greta was more then happy to spew her bullshit along with every single one of her guests until Midnight.


I here ya brother..
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ge/applaud.gif

mikeyddddd 08-29-2008 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX (Post 14682074)
yes i did.

best line ever was about mccain not foloowing bin laden to the cave where he is let along "the gates of hell."

I am so tired of hearing republicans and mccain say how far they are willing to go to get Bin Laden, when it so obvious not true.

The best army on the planet cannot even find a single terrorist named Bin Laden, but mccain will chase hi to the fictitious place called hell. I think the army and america look like a joke the longer they are in iraq and never on the trail of thereal Bin laden. (i got family over there on 3-4 tours of iraq)

bring em home.

Great line Barack.

I agree.

kowalsky 08-29-2008 07:13 AM

Great orator! He kept me connected to the TV, what a speech!

qxm 08-29-2008 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyddddd (Post 14682178)
I agree.

No "I agree" gif image this time?? :(

nation-x 08-29-2008 07:18 AM

wow... I was wrong lol... Romney has been excluded from the VP pick along with Pawlenty.

notoldschool 08-29-2008 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog (Post 14681201)
No pictures.


But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don?t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.


FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and ?research.?8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...1&vote =00219)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in ?Obama had greater role on liberal survey,? Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...1&vote =00217)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...common-se.html)

5. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004 SB 2165, vote 20.

6. ?Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record.? Obama ?08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck...n_obamas_c.php)

7. ?Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,? Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_560181.html)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

9. ?Obama and Gun Control,? The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. ?Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,? Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioio...n_edwards.html)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, ?Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,? February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/b..._on_shoot.html)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: ?As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .? (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ur...aw-enforcement.)

15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Bara...un_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004.

16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.



FUCK GUN OWNERS...95% of them arent smart enough to operate a lawn mower let alone a gun. Hell half the military shouldnt be able to handle a gun. Most of this shit is spin which the list would be WAY FUCKING LONGER if it was about all the rights Mccain wanted to take away from Americans. Fuck Mccain and any asshole who is dumb enough to think hes good for this country or industry.

Sarah_Jayne 08-29-2008 07:28 AM

Who is Sarah Palin?

nation-x 08-29-2008 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah_MaxCash (Post 14682237)
Who is Sarah Palin?

Governor of Alaska
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

mikeyddddd 08-29-2008 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qxm (Post 14682207)
No "I agree" gif image this time?? :(

How about this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX (Post 14682074)
yes i did.

best line ever was about mccain not foloowing bin laden to the cave where he is let along "the gates of hell."

I am so tired of hearing republicans and mccain say how far they are willing to go to get Bin Laden, when it so obvious not true.

The best army on the planet cannot even find a single terrorist named Bin Laden, but mccain will chase hi to the fictitious place called hell. I think the army and america look like a joke the longer they are in iraq and never on the trail of thereal Bin laden. (i got family over there on 3-4 tours of iraq)

bring em home.

Great line Barack.


nation-x 08-29-2008 07:38 AM

The AP and CNBC are reporting that Sarah Palin will be the Republican VP Nominee

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26454655/site/14081545/

EDIT: I just saw on CNN that they have confirmed her as the pick.

Sarah_Jayne 08-29-2008 07:38 AM

Very pro-life, from what that says ...if Hillary loyals are thinking of voting Mccain because of her gender I hope they remember they picked the future when abortion issues come up afterwards.

Bryan G 08-29-2008 07:39 AM

Where is Baddog??? Need to hear his opinion.

Odin 08-29-2008 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 14680772)
i've heard the same from others - webmasters.

I wonder how many black people will vote for whitey McCain? Who cares. People vote on stupid issues full stop. Whether it is a persons color, or how articulate his speeches are (despite the substance they lack), or who they'd like to have a beer with, or who sounds like a nice guy. American voters are rejects, like most voters in the Western world. Be thankful at least that whoever gets in realistically won't change shit, the powers that be will keep churning and making their money, and pointing us in the direction they want us to go.

It's appropriate that he held his speech in a football stadium considering it really is just a little sideshow and entertainment for the masses. Obama will do exactly as they want, look at his speech to AIPAC and compare it to his positions a year ago. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

J. Falcon 08-29-2008 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 14680722)

i talked to an 18 year old female American today, asked her if she was going to vote for Obama - her reply was 'no he's black' as if it was a ridiculous question to even ask.

Was she married to her brother and living in a trailer?

uno 08-29-2008 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidd (Post 14680904)
Mondale/Ferraro -> In The Bag
Dukakis/Bentson -> In The Bag
Gore/Lieberman -> In The Bag
Kerry/Edwards -> In The Bag
Obama/Biden -> In The Bag

Seeing a pattern?

Clinton/Gore -> In The Bag.

uno 08-29-2008 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim (Post 14680906)
The video montage that told his story was pretty well done.

I was worried about the setting as it was made well before the attacks on him as being a "celebrity" but they filmed it tight so it never looked overwhelming. Although the fireworks at the end seemed over the top.

My only question is, say he wins, can he live up to the promise? Can any man? Business and greed are so entrenched in government that I wonder if no matter what he achieves, it will be a let down.

Believe it or not, he still has a very uphill battle, but if he pulls it out I will have hope for America, not because of him, but because it will show people have learned from the past and are ready to start something new and put that post 9-11 fear mongering behind us the same way the Germans did post WW2.

McCain actually put out a classy ad today congratulating Obama. He said something like "We'll go back at it tomorrow, but tonight, job well done" referring to being the first black nominee.



I really wish the rest of the campaign would be like this.

nation-x 08-29-2008 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah_MaxCash (Post 14682266)
Very pro-life, from what that says ...if Hillary loyals are thinking of voting Mccain because of her gender I hope they remember they picked the future when abortion issues come up afterwards.

I hate to say this... and I hope you don't take is ant-female... but honestly, if pro-choice women vote for McCain because of his pick it won't be because they know or understand what they are voting for... it will be purely because they are voting for a woman.

Sarah_Jayne 08-29-2008 07:51 AM

I don't want Obama voters to think it is in the bag. The second that is thought people don't get off their asses and go vote and then McCain is in. Which, is why I think he may very well end up winning. People have to vote if they want Obama in office.

Gouge 08-29-2008 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nation-x (Post 14681797)
As usual, the right wingers here and all over the US will not give credit where credit is due. They will all keep claiming that Obama isn't experienced enough to be president.... blah blah blah. I think the only experience a president needs is the ability to run things in an organized fashion and have the intelligence to utilize the experience of the experts on the issues. It's very important that he choose competent people to help him run things... and he should be open to hearing opposing views.

I don't agree with every position that Obama takes but it is sure as hell alot more then I agree with McCain since he decided to toe the neocon line. What is funny to me is that he hated Romney during the primary and I predict (at 7:59AM EST) that he will pick Romney today to be his VP because he needs help in the west.

Spacedog has no credibility to argue against Obama because he is a proven racist... not long ago he was exposed for running a site called ni**erporn.com (or something like that) that had KKK symbols all over it. Furthermore... I don't think you have to worry about the 2nd amendment issues because they are not even close to being on top of the democrat agenda... things like health care are going to rule the agenda and there won't be time to even address that issue. The NRA has become a joke anyway because they are only a political tool of the right to control voters in the same sense that evangelicals are a tool. I don't support any limits on the 2nd amendment at all... just thought I should state that. I DO support putting people that use an assault weapon in any crime or felons who possess an assault weapon away for life but really... most shootings aren't done with assault weapons anyway.

The biggest reason I support Obama is because he isn't like McCain in the sense that he didn't come from a life of privilege... He is a self made man and I respect that more then anything else. McCain is just like Bush in the sense that his life would have been one of privilege no matter what... McCain can certainly relate with being a POW but he can't relate to being a single parent raising 2 kids on a shitty salary working in a bakery like my wife did. He certainly can't relate to struggling to work his way through college on a PELL grant while working as a cook at a restaurant or temp worker in a factory and having the restaurant/factory cut his hours so much that he loses his apartment and ends up homeless like I did. TWICE. He certainly can't relate to having his job shipped overseas and losing everything after working at the same plant for 25 years like my Dad did. He certainly can't relate to losing his house because of being "stop lossed" after the 4th tour in Iraq and 1 tour in Afghanistan while his wife was laid off back at home while trying to raise their new baby like my friend did. He can't relate to struggle in that sense and he certainly doesn't understand the essence of the American Dream because of it and now that I have attained the American Dream working as a webmaster in the porn industry... I am certainly not going to support the right wing who would LOVE to take that away from me.

I watched the speech on Fox News so I could hear the neocon line right away afterwards... and I wasn't disappointed... Greta was more then happy to spew her bullshit along with every single one of her guests until Midnight.

Brit Hume and his round table (which included 3 Dems) was on right after Barack Hussein Obama's speech, Greta didnt come on until 1 1/2 later so your pretty much a liar in the regard. Further more Greta had Bob Beckel, Kirsten Powers and Lanny Davis plus herself, that makes 4 Dems so im wondering where you got your right wing spin from during her show.

Sarah_Jayne 08-29-2008 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nation-x (Post 14682308)
I hate to say this... and I hope you don't take is ant-female... but honestly, if pro-choice women vote for McCain because of his pick it won't be because they know or understand what they are voting for... it will be purely because they are voting for a woman.

That was exactly my point. The women that vote for a women just because she is a woman are probably the same kind of women that are going to be on a picket line if Anti-choice supreme court justices are put into place under McCain. So, they will be voting for a woman simply she is a woman and hurting their own cause. In other words, cutting their nose off to spite their face.

I am going to far as to say that if the Hillary blinded women cost the democrats this election they should be shunned by the party in the future on grounds of stupidity alone.

uno 08-29-2008 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacedog (Post 14681201)
No pictures.

OK, you're a gun nut, we get it.

nation-x 08-29-2008 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gouge (Post 14682318)
Brit Hume and his round table (which included 3 Dems) was on right after Barack Hussein Obama's speech, Greta didnt come on until 1 1/2 later so your pretty much a liar in the regard. Further more Greta had Bob Beckel, Kirsten Powers and Lanny Davis plus herself, that makes 4 Dems so im wondering where you got your right wing spin from during her show.

Brit Hume was on until 11PM EST... Obama didn't get done speaking until 11PM EST... so I suggest you check yourself.

Gouge 08-29-2008 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nation-x (Post 14682349)
Brit Hume was on until 11PM EST... Obama didn't get done speaking until 11PM EST... so I suggest you check yourself.

Your wrong again, Brit Hume went off the air at 11:30 PM EST

Great started her show with the following...

August 28th, 2008 11:31 PM Eastern
got this before Senator Obama left the stage (but after he finished)
by Greta Van Susteren
MCCAIN CAMPAIGN STATEMENT ON BARACK OBAMA?S ACCEPTANCE SPEECH

Tucker Bounds: ?Tonight, Americans witnessed a misleading speech that was so fundamentally at odds with the meager record of Barack Obama. When the temple comes down, the fireworks end, and the words are over, the facts remain: Senator Obama still has no record of bipartisanship, still opposes offshore drilling, still voted to raise taxes on those making just $42,000 per year, and still voted against funds for American troops in harm?s way. The fact remains: Barack Obama is still not ready to be President.?

cherrylula 08-29-2008 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pussyserver (Post 14680770)
:2 cents::2 cents:

I complete agree

If she made a statement like that.... she should not be allowed to breathe.

hopefuly her breathing will stop in the new future and spare the world or such ignorant statements

when you see her again, ask her if she has ever wondered how relaxing eternal sleep could be .... then post her picture and home address

now now, two wrongs do not make one right. :1orglaugh

let the ignorant rot, they usually do themselves in.

Bojangles 08-29-2008 08:33 AM

I didn't get to see it.


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