Understood...but I'd like all the shooters reading this thread to estimate how many times a girl shows up with a recently expired DL or other ID. I don't attend many of our shoots, but I know I've seen it several times just as an occasional visitor. It's sometimes harder to get a "current ID" than you'd think, especially working with semi-pros :(

That makes sense, but if you are a honest content producer, you don't pass off old content as new to your client :winkwink:

Just my :2 cents:

why would you need to shoot it every time? The birthdate does not change on an ID.

Wise words :thumbsup

Righto, then.

Because it is the law and complete documentation must be with each shoot regardless if you shot the model 100 times. Hope this helps :winkwink:

I am talking about if you already have her ID on file. The model release would provide the date of the shoot, there is no need to reshoot the ID every time, if you scan the ID, like you should do anyway, it's gonna look the same every time, pointless.

For 2257's you do not have to have a picture of them holding their ID's. You just need legible copies.

I understand, but it is the law, regardless if you have her ID on file several times. We are always sure to have that Id with file for that shoot. We create a copy of the Id and I take a pic of it proving that I had all necessary documentation at the time of the shoot.

Have you ran this idea by your attorney? What did he advise you to do?

This isn't rocket science.

You look at her ID each and every time and if it's the exact same ID she had last time around, and it's still valid (i.e. unexpired), then there's no need to xerox it again.

It is imperative however that you look at it because the old ID may no longer be valid.

incorrect ......

he advised me I am right, as long as the ID on file has not expired, it is valid.

Please do explain. You mean to tell me that you don't have all documentation about the model you shoot for each shoot?

I guess you can do it your way. I have all my docs in order and that is all that matters to me.

This is true, but I still copy the ID each time to cover my ass.

* If I shoot "Betty" for the first time on Monday I don't need to have new 2257 information on our Tuesday shoot.

* If my office burns down a year later but Betty signs a new 2257 for past compliance reasons what matters is her legal status on the first shoot the rest obviously comply.

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Ok, I understand, but there is no reason why one would not copy this ID each and every time.
I guess I do it different, but I am still compliant. Thanks for clarifying what you meant :winkwink:
I just try to cover my ass each time....regardless....

When I said it was the law, I meant that the law requires that you have the photo Id as part of the records. Maybe I stated it incorrectly.

There is nothing wrong with being "right" each time you shoot.

Take care, Lee

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Thanks, you too :winkwink:

This is healthy discussion for all of us.

Thank you. This was the policy I am following as well.

Liked your Olympic photos post .... pretty funny

From 2257

".... shall create and maintain individually identifiable records pertaining to every performer portrayed in such a visual depiction."

I don't know about you, but I read that as a record for each performer, not for each shoot, day, set, or any other way you want to separate things.

It does require you to review the performer's picture ID when creating the content, but nowhere I could find did it indicate that you need to keep separate records for each shoot. Further, if you have a record on file with information of a performer that you know to be of legal age (a record captured and maintained by you, not by someone else), why would you need a copy of a current form of ID at a secondary shoot? Yes, yes, I know it's good business practice, but you already have identifying information showing they were legally allowed to do what they were doing at a previous date. Has this person somehow magically aged in reverse and therefore we must require proof that they were of legal age the second time we shot with them just in case? Maybe because their identification has expired? By sheer logic any investigating authority would skim right over that and look for situations where you didn't have a record for a performer or even more sinister, for a performer that was assumed to be under 18.

I shoot a girl one time... she's legal and has proof of it, we're golden. Why would I ever need to verify she's 18 again? I already have proof of it. I honestly don't even care if her identification is valid at the next shoot because I have already done my job and I am maintaining a record of it. I think the airlines would care because her ID should be valid to fly, but for me an expired ID on a secondary shoot would mean nothing.

BTW, in regards to the record keeping, for compliance, I would need to annotate her file and indicate that another shoot was performed with her on such and such a date. Easy.

BINGO... if you are so lazy to copy the ID, then just look at it.

I try to teach my clients to follow the exact same procedure everytime they shoot. This way, there's no way something can slip through the cracks. If someone forgets something, the content may end up worthless.

For example, several girls shoot for you. Some you have shot before, one you have not. In the rush, your PA forgets to copy one girl's ID because you have IDs on 4 of the girls in the 5 girl gang-bang. Mistakes happen...

The girls leave the shoot and now you cannot get the other girl to come back. Guess what -- your content is useless.

If there's a procedure for IDs and 2257 docs for each and every shoot, there's less of a chance for mistakes. I have been on set when these types of mistakes have happened.

So I shot "Betty" for the first time in 2006 when she was 20 years old and followed all compliance steps. Now it's 2008, why even look at her ID yet alone check to see if her license is expired?

You're right, there is no logical reason to check "Betty's" ID ever again.

Assuming, of course, that the real intent of the 2257 laws is to protect minors :winkwink:

:2 cents::2 cents:

Because an expired license is no longer a valid form of ID. You can't get into a bar with an expired drivers license, even if it says you are over 21.

The expired ID is still valid on file for the shoots you did while it was not expired, but if you shoot her again and the date of the shoot is greater than the expiration of the ID, you are not using a legal form of ID to verify the models age.

The models age has already been verified. Her legal age is on file. There is no need to even look at her license.

we do this everytime we shoot a girl (or guy) and store it in a database for this specific day. it takes 2 mins. to shoot the IDs and another 2 minutes to upload them to our database. why save on 4 minutes? :2 cents: