W-8 form for foreign webmasters - GoFuckYourself.com

Fabien · 08-20-2008, 06:50 AM

Important Tax Information

We are in the process of updating our Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification records. In order to file an information return with the IRS, we must obtain your correct Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) to report income paid to you. Please ensure that you have a W-9 or W-8 form on file with us in order to ensure timely payment. Once signed, please mail or fax the completed form to:

Attn: Accounting Department
Various, Inc.
220 Humboldt Court
Sunnyvale, CA 94089
United States
Fax: 1(408) 744-9374

************************************************** ************

FACT: US sponsors are NOT required by law to get signed w8 forms from non-US webmasters.

So my question is, why the fuck are they requesting this ?

Did you get this message too ?

u-Bob · 08-20-2008, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabien

FACT: US sponsors are NOT required by law to get signed w8 forms from non-US webmasters.

Correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabien

So my question is, why the fuck are they requesting this ?

Their accountant doesn't know what he's doing?

bobby666 · 08-20-2008, 07:29 AM

from time to time, yes

Tjeezers · 08-20-2008, 07:40 AM

A withholding agent must withhold 30% of any payment of an amount subject to withholding made to a payee that is a foreign person unless it can associate the payment with documentation upon which it can rely to treat the payment as made to a beneficial owner that is: (1) a U.S. person, or (2) a foreign person entitled to a reduced rate of withholding (e.g., Form W-9,Form W-8, or other appropriate documentation).

Further comment from the IRS:

However, a withholding agent making a payment to a foreign person need not withhold if the foreign person assumes responsibility for withholding on the payment as a qualified intermediary, U.S. branch of a foreign person, a withholding foreign partnership, or an authorized foreign agent.

MOxxx · 08-20-2008, 07:41 AM

My accountant told me that we are required to send out W8 as well to all NON- American webmasters.

V_RocKs · 08-20-2008, 07:51 AM

Document, document, document!

Tjeezers · 08-20-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOxxx

My accountant told me that we are required to send out W8 as well to all NON- American webmasters.

What you could do is show the accountent Google's definition of U.S. income -
https://www.google.com/adsense/taxinfo Google doesn't make foreign webmasters fill out W-8BEN forms.

W8BEN is only for US SOURCED INCOME.

That means "the work done was done in the USA".

If you did the work in another country, tax is payable in THAT country.

Tjeezers · 08-20-2008, 07:56 AM

http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/W-8

Certificate of Foreign Status form required by the IRS to tell the payer, transfer agent, broker or other middleman that an employee is a nonresident alien or foreign entity that is not subject to U.S. tax reporting or backup withholding rules.

MOxxx · 08-20-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sex2Have

What you could do is show the accountent Google's definition of U.S. income -
https://www.google.com/adsense/taxinfo Google doesn't make foreign webmasters fill out W-8BEN forms.

W8BEN is only for US SOURCED INCOME.

That means "the work done was done in the USA".

If you did the work in another country, tax is payable in THAT country.

My mistake he did say that, but he did it a CPA lingo....so i didn't get it in the first place.

u-Bob · 08-20-2008, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOxxx

My accountant told me that we are required to send out W8 as well to all NON- American webmasters.

The W8BEN form is only required to be filled out for US SOURCED income. Now "US Sourced" doesn't mean where the person writing the check is, it means where the work was done by the PAYEE.

The OECD (of which the USA is a member of) put it's head together many years ago and determined that if you OWN a webserver in a country, then the websites you have on that server are producing income SOURCED in that country. If you merely RENT a webserver in a country, the websites on it are producing FOREIGN SOURCED income.

FOREIGN SOURCED income is NOT subject to tax in the USA and does NOT require form W8BEN to be filled out - W8BEN is for foreigners to claim exemption from withholding tax on US SOURCED INCOME for tax treaty obligations.

The instructions for W8BEN are clear:

"Who must file.

You must give Form W-8BEN to the withholding agent or payer if you are a foreign person and you are the beneficial owner of an amount SUBJECT TO WITHHOLDING."

Like i said, FOREIGN SOURCED INCOME IS NOT SUBJECT TO WITHHOLDING.

All that is required is that the foreign affiliate CERTIFIES they do not have any US-SOURCED income and are not a US Taxpayer, etc.

Google has it spot on, on their Adsense tax information page:

https://www.google.com/adsense/taxinfo

Quote:

Non U.S. Business (No U.S. Activities )

United States (U.S.) Activities involve having employees or owning equipment in the U.S. that are involved in any way with revenue earned through the AdSense programme. This includes, but is not limited to, owning a web server or owning a hosting service in the U.S., or having employees in the U.S. who are involved in either:

* setting up a web server, hosting service, or website
* developing content for your website
* marketing to create a user base for your site
* telephone support for your site
* buying products for your site
* maintaining your site

Generally, utilizing an unrelated third-party U.S. web hosting service to host your web pages, renting web servers that are located in the U.S. from an unrelated third party, or having your payment sent to a U.S. Post Office Box or mail forwarding address, do not of themselves constitute U.S. Activities.

If you do not have US Activities, you will be asked to agree to a statement to that effect. No tax forms are required in this instance.

So all you need to do is add a little form to your site where non-US affiliates can click an "I'm not a US citizen and I do not have any US Activities"-button.

Why · 08-20-2008, 09:50 AM

This thread is amusing. ;)

Various doesnt have very good tax folks.

Tjeezers · 08-20-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

So all you need to do is add a little form to your site where non-US affiliates can click an "I'm not a US citizen and I do not have any US Activities"-button.

Correct
On Other forums, google search W8 Forgein affiliates, you will find this topic many times

u-Bob · 08-20-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why

Various doesnt have very good tax folks.

They aren't the only ones :/

Odie · 08-20-2008, 11:00 AM

Hi Fabien...

Konda · 08-20-2008, 11:10 AM

When a US sponsor asks me to fill out a W8 form, they don't get my traffic. I am not going to supply my personal information to the US IRS (especially because it is not even required by the IRS, these programs just don't even know the exact rules)

Fabien · 08-20-2008, 01:16 PM

More than 11 years online here. No one ever asked me this !
Epass tried to pull this on me, guess what i did

Also, guess who's the sponsor ?

Aff

i know...i know...

Hi Odie by the way

curiousdog · 12-10-2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

The W8BEN form is only required to be filled out for US SOURCED income. Now "US Sourced" doesn't mean where the person writing the check is, it means where the work was done by the PAYEE.

Do you have an authoritative source to prove that? Google is pretty good, but the IRS website or an IRS form, or a US law would make me feel better and would make it easier to convince affiliate program bosses

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

The OECD (of which the USA is a member of) put it's head together many years ago and determined that if you OWN a webserver in a country, then the websites you have on that server are producing income SOURCED in that country. If you merely RENT a webserver in a country, the websites on it are producing FOREIGN SOURCED income.

again, any authoritative source, preferably an IRS website or form?

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

Like i said, FOREIGN SOURCED INCOME IS NOT SUBJECT TO WITHHOLDING.

All that is required is that the foreign affiliate CERTIFIES they do not have any US-SOURCED income and are not a US Taxpayer, etc.

Google has it spot on, on their Adsense tax information page:

So all you need to do is add a little form to your site where non-US affiliates can click an "I'm not a US citizen and I do not have any US Activities"-button.

As I said, I believe in google, but an affiliate site rightfully can say they are not a tax authority.

Also is there an authoritative source that a simple declaration is good enough
(you might be a US citizen and might be cheating. Or you might own a web server but still be out of the reach of US law enforcement (living outside the US), so the affiliate site might get stuck with tax liabilities they can not recoup

Would it not be nice if the IRS had the required text written out somewhere so it can simply be copied?

08-20-2008, 06:50 AM	#1
Fabien Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,787	W-8 form for foreign webmasters Important Tax Information We are in the process of updating our Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification records. In order to file an information return with the IRS, we must obtain your correct Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) to report income paid to you. Please ensure that you have a W-9 or W-8 form on file with us in order to ensure timely payment. Once signed, please mail or fax the completed form to: Attn: Accounting Department Various, Inc. 220 Humboldt Court Sunnyvale, CA 94089 United States Fax: 1(408) 744-9374 ************************************************ ********** FACT: US sponsors are NOT required by law to get signed w8 forms from non-US webmasters. So my question is, why the fuck are they requesting this ? Did you get this message too ?

08-20-2008, 07:29 AM	#3
bobby666 boots are my religion Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Heart of europe Posts: 21,765	from time to time, yes __________________

08-20-2008, 07:40 AM	#4
Tjeezers Webmaster Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: BP4L - NL/RO Posts: 16,572	A withholding agent must withhold 30% of any payment of an amount subject to withholding made to a payee that is a foreign person unless it can associate the payment with documentation upon which it can rely to treat the payment as made to a beneficial owner that is: (1) a U.S. person, or (2) a foreign person entitled to a reduced rate of withholding (e.g., Form W-9,Form W-8, or other appropriate documentation). Further comment from the IRS: However, a withholding agent making a payment to a foreign person need not withhold if the foreign person assumes responsibility for withholding on the payment as a qualified intermediary, U.S. branch of a foreign person, a withholding foreign partnership, or an authorized foreign agent. __________________ Enroll in the SWAG Affiliate Asian Live Cam Program and get 9 free quality linkbacks from my network! Wanna see how old school I am? Look at this! All my Cam Review Sites are here!

08-20-2008, 07:41 AM	#5
MOxxx Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Atlanta,GA Posts: 3,022	My accountant told me that we are required to send out W8 as well to all NON- American webmasters. __________________ Increase revenue and maximize your business potential by translating your website with a partner who truly understands your industry! For more information about X-Rated Translations visit https://www.xratedtranslations.com

08-20-2008, 07:56 AM	#8
Tjeezers Webmaster Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: BP4L - NL/RO Posts: 16,572	http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/W-8 Certificate of Foreign Status form required by the IRS to tell the payer, transfer agent, broker or other middleman that an employee is a nonresident alien or foreign entity that is not subject to U.S. tax reporting or backup withholding rules. __________________ Enroll in the SWAG Affiliate Asian Live Cam Program and get 9 free quality linkbacks from my network! Wanna see how old school I am? Look at this! All my Cam Review Sites are here!

08-20-2008, 07:51 AM	#6
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,409	Document, document, document!

08-20-2008, 09:50 AM	#11
Why MFBA Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: PNW Posts: 7,230	This thread is amusing. ;) Various doesnt have very good tax folks.

08-20-2008, 11:00 AM	#14
Odie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The WATER BABY! Posts: 7,040	Hi Fabien... __________________ Odie [email protected] Are you Mobile???? MMACanada ICQ # 166208354 See Who I Am At AdultWhosWho.com!

08-20-2008, 11:10 AM	#15
Konda ... Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,280	When a US sponsor asks me to fill out a W8 form, they don't get my traffic. I am not going to supply my personal information to the US IRS (especially because it is not even required by the IRS, these programs just don't even know the exact rules)

08-20-2008, 01:16 PM	#16
Fabien Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,787	More than 11 years online here. No one ever asked me this ! Epass tried to pull this on me, guess what i did Also, guess who's the sponsor ? Aff i know...i know... Hi Odie by the way