What I learned in Miami last week

[Choker]

From what I saw attendees were mostly program owners or their reps. There were very few pure affiliates there. Seems that the days of affiliates is fast behind us. What big affilaites I talked to there are now pushing thier own programs. There is simply not enough profit to go around. All the deals being made that I witnessed were between program owners. Most of the old time TGP's, MGPS's have lost so much traffic their influence and even their mention at Miami was totally absent. Every program owner either has a tube site or are making one. Funny thing is you have so many program owners on these boards slamming tubes, yet face to face they are lining up to buy traffic from tube sites. And they all know that traffic from tube sites is a gold mine for them.

Our industry is changing for the better I think. Yeah less people have more control and make most of the money. But this evolution was bound to happen sooner or later wasnt it?

[fuzebox]

An affiliate starting their own program/paysites is just good business though, (and makes more sense than someone without traffic generation experience starting a paysite). I know I moved into paysites just because of the increased earnings per member and monetization opportunities.

Haven't shows been mostly b2b for at least 2-3 years now? I know by the time I started going to them they were.

[Cory W]

Good meeting you and spending time with you.

[WarChild]

I'm still a pure affiliate. I'd say I rank amongst the top earning affiliates of many programs over the years. I don't go to shows at all anymore. There's nothing in it for me at all.

I don't really want to hang out with a bunch of drunken retards, most of them "affiliate managers" with really nothing to offer. I'm certainly not going to pay for the honor. Porn conventions are kind of like being backstage at a strip club: There's lots of titties around, but the conversation isn't worth shit.

When I want to find new sponsors, I look around on GFY and a few other boards. Then the same idiots fight for my traffic over ICQ, same as they would at shows but with one important difference. I can fucking close the ICQ window and be done with it that fast. No fuss, no muss, no fucking webmasters in old jeans and dirty running shoes causing a scene when the bouncers won't let them in to a nice Vegas club because regardless of who they think they might be, the dress code is still the dress code.

I'm just sayin'

[Peaches]

It really doesn't make any sense for an affiliate to go to shows after they've been to a few. You've already made your "face to face" contacts and the rest can be done over the interwebs. I don't even see pictures of that many program owners. Seems it's mostly reps enjoying a free vacation

[HAPPYPEEKERS]

It was great to talk to you and your wife again.. great talk!

[BlackCrayon]

Yeah, its harder for affiliates (it doesn't help that so many programs fuck over affiliates) but its also much wiser for affiliates to invest the money would be spent going to shows back into their business. I don't agree that all the tube madness is good for business though. Giving away more for free never is.

[gleem]

We found one major affiliate and we got stiffed on his email address... kinda like a chick giving out wrong numbers..


It was all B2B at the show!

[Choker]

[QUOTE=fuzebox;14620958]An affiliate starting their own program/paysites is just good business though, (and makes more sense than someone without traffic generation experience starting a paysite). I know I moved into paysites just because of the increased earnings per member and monetization opportunities.
QUOTE]

Very true.

[gleem]

Originally Posted by WarChild

I'm still a pure affiliate.

ICQ me please

[Jim_Gunn]

I met a few affiliates at the show, but yeah mostly program owners and affiliate managers, billing people and models.

[Evil E]

Maybe someone should have an affiliate only gathering, or does it exist already?

[gleem]

Originally Posted by Evil E

Maybe someone should have an affiliate only gathering, or does it exist already?

Sponsor programs would sneak in some spies

Also most sponsors are affiliates too, so you'd have to define "affiliate" pretty clearly.

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by gleem

We found one major affiliate and we got stiffed on his email address... kinda like a chick giving out wrong numbers..


It was all B2B at the show!

You were actually one of the people I wanted to meet at the show, and I forgot once I got there

oops

[gleem]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

You were actually one of the people I wanted to meet at the show, and I forgot once I got there

oops

dammit! We can do a virtual meeting with monica and myself ;)

[biskoppen]

Originally Posted by Choker

From what I saw attendees were mostly program owners or their reps. There were very few pure affiliates there. Seems that the days of affiliates is fast behind us. What big affilaites I talked to there are now pushing thier own programs. There is simply not enough profit to go around. All the deals being made that I witnessed were between program owners. Most of the old time TGP's, MGPS's have lost so much traffic their influence and even their mention at Miami was totally absent. Every program owner either has a tube site or are making one. Funny thing is you have so many program owners on these boards slamming tubes, yet face to face they are lining up to buy traffic from tube sites. And they all know that traffic from tube sites is a gold mine for them.

Our industry is changing for the better I think. Yeah less people have more control and make most of the money. But this evolution was bound to happen sooner or later wasnt it?

You mean that the program owners are fucking their old affiliates by using all the money they made them to build tubes and now steal their traffic?

Just trying to provoke a discussion here, I have no clue if the above is correct or not

[biskoppen]

Originally Posted by WarChild

I'm still a pure affiliate. I'd say I rank amongst the top earning affiliates of many programs over the years. I don't go to shows at all anymore. There's nothing in it for me at all.

I don't really want to hang out with a bunch of drunken retards, most of them "affiliate managers" with really nothing to offer. I'm certainly not going to pay for the honor. Porn conventions are kind of like being backstage at a strip club: There's lots of titties around, but the conversation isn't worth shit.

When I want to find new sponsors, I look around on GFY and a few other boards. Then the same idiots fight for my traffic over ICQ, same as they would at shows but with one important difference. I can fucking close the ICQ window and be done with it that fast. No fuss, no muss, no fucking webmasters in old jeans and dirty running shoes causing a scene when the bouncers won't let them in to a nice Vegas club because regardless of who they think they might be, the dress code is still the dress code.

I'm just sayin'

We're probably not anyones top affilate because we promote ALOT of different stuff..

We're going to review all our sponsors in the future though - we're not going to support the "pre-checked cross-sales below the submit-button" sites anymore.. well, we're considering dropping sites with pre-checked cross-sales at all.. There's no doubt in my mind that this is an action with "evil" intention, and that's not something we will support

[bbm]

Its world tendentious, it happens in all spheres of business, you should read Karl Marks

[jscott]

I'm 99% pure affiliate also, I have absolutely NO reason for going to shows, I've never done any biz at any shows, I pay for hotel, for entrance, for food, flights, party, and all that so that I can get spammed by program owners.

It's the sad truth, but it is true, here is money there for program owners to get affiliates to put links on their sites etc, but what biz does an affiliate do there? Just beg for higher percentages on revshares? or higher pps amounts? or?

I can join a sponsor program, get approved within a day, get login to their paysites, and have promo up making money within a few days/weeks ALL AUTOMATICALLY ONLINE, no need for shows (for me)

[jscott]

....oh, also I'll add, I've gone to shows in the past as an excuse for a vacation, to meet fellow webmasters mainly for social purpose, and if any actual biz has come from it I take it as a bonus

[VIPimp]

Originally Posted by biskoppen

We're probably not anyones top affilate because we promote ALOT of different stuff..

We're going to review all our sponsors in the future though - we're not going to support the "pre-checked cross-sales below the submit-button" sites anymore.. well, we're considering dropping sites with pre-checked cross-sales at all.. There's no doubt in my mind that this is an action with "evil" intention, and that's not something we will support

Make sure to checkout my program, NO hidden prechecks nor anyother shady crap...

[DWB]

Originally Posted by WarChild

I'm still a pure affiliate. I'd say I rank amongst the top earning affiliates of many programs over the years. I don't go to shows at all anymore. There's nothing in it for me at all.

I don't really want to hang out with a bunch of drunken retards, most of them "affiliate managers" with really nothing to offer. I'm certainly not going to pay for the honor. Porn conventions are kind of like being backstage at a strip club: There's lots of titties around, but the conversation isn't worth shit.

When I want to find new sponsors, I look around on GFY and a few other boards. Then the same idiots fight for my traffic over ICQ, same as they would at shows but with one important difference. I can fucking close the ICQ window and be done with it that fast. No fuss, no muss, no fucking webmasters in old jeans and dirty running shoes causing a scene when the bouncers won't let them in to a nice Vegas club because regardless of who they think they might be, the dress code is still the dress code.

I'm just sayin'

I like your style WarChild!!!!

When we move to PPS, I want to kick everyones ass for your traffic. Bare knuckle boxing. I've heard you can bring in the sales.

[pr0]

I had quite a few people tell me in Miami & Vegas.... i was one of the last real affiliates showing up to conventions

very interesting thread this is, I do agree that no affiliates should be wasting money on the shows.
so tubesites are the future?
anybody wants to buy my TGP Empire?

[pr0]

Originally Posted by ThumbLord

very interesting thread this is, I do agree that no affiliates should be wasting money on the shows.
so tubesites are the future?
anybody wants to buy my TGP Empire?

are you kidding me?

you got to goto 1 or 2 shows a year, just to let the programs you send traffic to know they had better pay ya....or else they'll be seeing you in person again ; )

ok pr0 you have a point there

[Sly]

I haven't been to a show in a while... but even when I did, I don't think I met many affiliates. I agree with Fuze.

[Quotealex]

Originally Posted by Evil E

Maybe someone should have an affiliate only gathering, or does it exist already?

I would love to go to a show where I'm not getting hustled by reps.

Well Quotealax maybe some day, somewhere, some sponsors are interested to get a show together for affiliates, but heh do not count on it, as I recall in hearing conversations and remarks on most boards, affiliates are the lowest in the industry nowadays, as in except for some whales most affiliates are not really worth anything for sponsors/program owners, but heh I could be wrong.
Affiliates are the dinosaurs of this industry I am told

[Profits of Doom]

Originally Posted by WarChild

I'm still a pure affiliate. I'd say I rank amongst the top earning affiliates of many programs over the years. I don't go to shows at all anymore. There's nothing in it for me at all.

I don't really want to hang out with a bunch of drunken retards, most of them "affiliate managers" with really nothing to offer. I'm certainly not going to pay for the honor. Porn conventions are kind of like being backstage at a strip club: There's lots of titties around, but the conversation isn't worth shit.

When I want to find new sponsors, I look around on GFY and a few other boards. Then the same idiots fight for my traffic over ICQ, same as they would at shows but with one important difference. I can fucking close the ICQ window and be done with it that fast. No fuss, no muss, no fucking webmasters in old jeans and dirty running shoes causing a scene when the bouncers won't let them in to a nice Vegas club because regardless of who they think they might be, the dress code is still the dress code.

I'm just sayin'

Jesus Christ this is the post of the century. I'm embarrassed to say I got an erection reading it...

[The Heron]

Originally Posted by jscott

I've never done any biz at any shows,

Haha! Probably because you need to be sober to do biz
Besides if I hadn't met you at conventions I'd never have let you link my awesome freesites so you did do some biz!

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by ThumbLord

Well Quotealax maybe some day, somewhere, some sponsors are interested to get a show together for affiliates, but heh do not count on it, as I recall in hearing conversations and remarks on most boards, affiliates are the lowest in the industry nowadays, as in except for some whales most affiliates are not really worth anything for sponsors/program owners, but heh I could be wrong.
Affiliates are the dinosaurs of this industry I am told

Yeah its pretty funny. Their empires were built on affiliates back but now they feel they don't need em. Silly bastards.

[Peaches]

It's rather funny that 2 years ago when I announced I had no desires to attend any more shows since I was back to be an affiliate only I was called a total loser by at least 1 program owner for not attending these shows, lol. That same program owner went on to call ANYONE affiliate who didn't attend a show a loser so it certainly wasn't personal, though it probably started out that way. My how the tides change. I guess I'm just a trend setter ;)

[jay23]

Originally Posted by Choker

From what I saw attendees were mostly program owners or their reps. There were very few pure affiliates there. Seems that the days of affiliates is fast behind us. What big affilaites I talked to there are now pushing thier own programs. There is simply not enough profit to go around. All the deals being made that I witnessed were between program owners. Most of the old time TGP's, MGPS's have lost so much traffic their influence and even their mention at Miami was totally absent. Every program owner either has a tube site or are making one. Funny thing is you have so many program owners on these boards slamming tubes, yet face to face they are lining up to buy traffic from tube sites. And they all know that traffic from tube sites is a gold mine for them.

Our industry is changing for the better I think. Yeah less people have more control and make most of the money. But this evolution was bound to happen sooner or later wasnt it?

I agree with you 100% and as a owner of a software development company the Miami show was the best show this year for me.

The big question is if some one starts a new program should they even bother to start an affliate program...may be start one but keep in invite only.

[Evil E]

Trade shows/conventions are a business anyways. If there's nothing for affiliates there, it means that the affiliates are not likely to show up, and the show probably makes less money. You can only have so much reps, owners and girls.

Example if 500 possible affiliates do not show up with a cover of 150$, it means that 75 000$ is lost.

[NickB.]

Its just not too many affiliates showed up in Miami, its up to the program and reps how they manage to get in touch with them

[Antonio]

despite what many people think affiliates are here to stay, if I can send 100 000 clicks to a sponsor daily (not that I can) I'll ALWAYS find a way to monetize that traffic, most of the "normal" sponsors went to shit, no problem, redirect your traffic to AFF or cams, once they start converting like shit, send to casinos or whatever, simple - if you have traffic you'll make money!

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Quotealex

I would love to go to a show where I'm not getting hustled by reps.

what would you do there and who would pay for it?

[After Shock Media]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

Yeah its pretty funny. Their empires were built on affiliates back but now they feel they don't need em. Silly bastards.

Would love for you to elaborate on how such empires were built on the "backs" of affiliates.

[Supz]

This was my first show. I am an affiliate and can agree they are geared more towards program owners in my opinion. As a new affiliate who really doesn't know anyone either. The meet and greet was good. Got to meet people I have talked to on icq before. Put the face to the chat. Met some new contacts and some good people.

I do have to disagree about the affiliate. Yes affiliates will have to sharpen up the skills for a more advanced internet solutions. The idea of affiliate marketing has been around for so long it will not go anywhere. Right now its very big actually because of the economy. Most jobs these days are commission/production based, which is basically the same idea. Paying for results.

[Major (Tom)]

Choker makes a good point.. the distribution of power is spread out now. MGPS and TGPS, although are still worth submitting too, the owners are no longer in charge, and far from it. The changing market is allowing for a somewhat classless system as the new model reigns in. One thing that is for sure that will never change is that anyone willing to send honest good traffic I will always do all I can to help that affiliate.

But yea, I wish there were more affiliates there. all the business was basically this: hey duke do you fuck your members with 5 prechecked cross sales? and pay 50 on $1 trials "NO." And the convo was over pretty quick. Then there was the other side of it where everyone was conjecturing a waiver as to when visa is going to step in.
Was a good show though.
Duke

[cherrylula]

As a female affiliate webmaster, I have no desire to go to those shows and be asked if I am talent and get my picture taken for someone else's company promo. Over the years, we have contemplated going to a show, but the cons always outweighted the pros. Other than a fun vacation meeting other internet people. But I don't like being pestered for traffic either. I don't even like ICQ for that reason.

The days of affiliates is not completely behind us. But yeah, you can't throw up a tgp, make dozens of nasty dollar sales from hosted galleries, and then bling your way to the convention to party with the bros. *Those* days are fast behind us.

[GUNNER]

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

Choker makes a good point.. the distribution of power is spread out now. MGPS and TGPS, although are still worth submitting too, the owners are no longer in charge, and far from it. The changing market is allowing for a somewhat classless system as the new model reigns in. One thing that is for sure that will never change is that anyone willing to send honest good traffic I will always do all I can to help that affiliate.

But yea, I wish there were more affiliates there. all the business was basically this: hey duke do you fuck your members with 5 prechecked cross sales? and pay 50 on $1 trials "NO." And the convo was over pretty quick. Then there was the other side of it where everyone was conjecturing a waiver as to when visa is going to step in.
Was a good show though.
Duke

I remember one such conversation. Glad we could both, just say NO.

[MediaManiac]

Originally Posted by Evil E

Maybe someone should have an affiliate only gathering, or does it exist already?

planning one for europe!

[Robbie]

I stopped going to shows in 2002. Just like some of you, I had no reason to go as an affiliate. I had the traffic and made my deals over the phone, email, and ICQ. So after 5 years I was done with shows and started going to Jamaica and Mexico instead for my "vacations".

And you're sort of right about it being a program owners show these days. I got into the paysite side of it last May and attended my first show since '02 at Xbiz last summer. I have since attended damn near every show lol

And what I got from the shows is re-meeting all the guys that I have been an affiliate of for years, AND because of those old ties that bind....became good friends with them by hanging at the shows.

A lot of good business for me. A lot of money made. And my methods are a little different than the majority. For me, it's just a matter of being there. Then I see the people I need to see. Our "meetings" are always spur of the moment and done over a drink. At internext I got the most out of the show just walking around the pool and drinking. I ran into several people who inevitably would pull me aside with a new idea to make some money or a new project.

Good times and good business.

Now, when I put on my affiliate hat...it wouldn't be so easy to say I definitely made money while I was at the show. BUT having said that...I would look at it as a future ROI.

Your at a convention full of sponsors that you promote. It doesn't hurt to become friends with them. Believe me, if it wasn't for the old friendships I had forged between 1998 and 2002 and the ensuing money that we made together afterwards, I would have been majorly fucked in late 2006 when some business shit went down for me.

So what I'm saying is...before anybody comes on here and definitively states that they are an affiliate and are above going to a convention, maybe you should rethink things and look to the future.

My thoughts on going into the paysite side while still keeping my affiliate status as well was that IF the govt. ever comes down on us, the FIRST things to go will be my TGP and all free sites. Gonna take 'em a little more trouble to kill the paysites. And no, Visa can't singlehandedly do it either. Look at Europe. They bill via direct debit primarily. People want porn and will find a way to pay for it. Visa isn't the "end-all", but the damn govt. nazi's are.

So I would say it's a good thing for an affiliate to go to the shows. Join in the fun. Act like an idiot and make some good friends in the business. You may need them in the future, and good friends always get the good deals. That works in every business.

[SCOOTER]

Originally Posted by Choker

From what I saw attendees were mostly program owners or their reps. There were very few pure affiliates there. Seems that the days of affiliates is fast behind us. What big affilaites I talked to there are now pushing thier own programs. There is simply not enough profit to go around. All the deals being made that I witnessed were between program owners. Most of the old time TGP's, MGPS's have lost so much traffic their influence and even their mention at Miami was totally absent. Every program owner either has a tube site or are making one. Funny thing is you have so many program owners on these boards slamming tubes, yet face to face they are lining up to buy traffic from tube sites. And they all know that traffic from tube sites is a gold mine for them.

Our industry is changing for the better I think. Yeah less people have more control and make most of the money. But this evolution was bound to happen sooner or later wasnt it?

Choker - it was good talking with you - looking forward to doing some business with you.

[Choker]

Originally Posted by SCOOTER

Choker - it was good talking with you - looking forward to doing some business with you.

Same here man, i came back to talk to you again but u disapeared.

[MediaGuy]

Originally Posted by Choker

From what I saw attendees were mostly program owners or their reps. There were very few pure affiliates there. Seems that the days of affiliates is fast behind us. What big affilaites I talked to there are now pushing thier own programs. There is simply not enough profit to go around. All the deals being made that I witnessed were between program owners. Most of the old time TGP's, MGPS's have lost so much traffic their influence and even their mention at Miami was totally absent. Every program owner either has a tube site or are making one. Funny thing is you have so many program owners on these boards slamming tubes, yet face to face they are lining up to buy traffic from tube sites. And they all know that traffic from tube sites is a gold mine for them.

Our industry is changing for the better I think. Yeah less people have more control and make most of the money. But this evolution was bound to happen sooner or later wasnt it?

But you know something I noticed? There's a HELL of a lot of processors out there, more than ever, and they're going to help us bring markets together we never had before due to CC restrictions and platform limitations...

You're right, things are changing for the better if only because you can parallel tubes with TGPs from almost a decade ago...

:D

[tony286]

an interesting thread.

[Choker]

Originally Posted by MediaGuy

But you know something I noticed? There's a HELL of a lot of processors out there, more than ever, and they're going to help us bring markets together we never had before due to CC restrictions and platform limitations...

You're right, things are changing for the better if only because you can parallel tubes with TGPs from almost a decade ago...

:D

Yes I did notice a lot of new processors