CCBIll fucks AU webmasters - GoFuckYourself.com

DangerDave · 10-24-2002, 06:18 PM

<HR>
Dear CCBill Client,

This email is in regards to the recent updates that you have given us for your account with CCBill.

You have given us an address for your business that is outside of the United States. Because of the new Visa regulations, we will be unable to process for your account after the 15th. We are only allowed to process for accounts in the regions that we represent, which are Europe and the U.S. In order to continue processing with us it will be necessary for you to either have a U.S. based business or Principle.

Please go to www.ipsp-faq.com for further information.

xxxxxx xxxxxxx
[email protected]
CCBill & Cavecreek Hosting

<HR>

Thanks CCBill - Lamers

pr0 · 10-24-2002, 06:20 PM

Ok so give me some money & i'll run your shit in the U.S., whats the big deal?

mrthumbs · 10-24-2002, 06:20 PM

Are there new Visa regulations?

playa · 10-24-2002, 06:26 PM

ah where you been for the last three weeks,
i guess someone didn't tell you

DangerDave · 10-24-2002, 06:27 PM

mrthumbs - yes big time! - http://www.ipsp-faq.com/

pr0 - go away

DD

Fletch XXX · 10-24-2002, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrthumbs
Are there new Visa regulations?

have you seen the Electro 2? Soon soon sono

mmmm

Theo · 10-24-2002, 06:44 PM

DangerDave it affects most of the c.c processors,not only ccbill and it has been a major topic among adult webmasters the last month.

DangerDave · 10-24-2002, 06:47 PM

Soul_rebel,

I am quite aware of that and have been for some time...

This is NEW information recieved by an AU webmaster in the last few hours, and ifs vastly different to much of what has been actually said to us.

DD

jimmyf · 10-24-2002, 06:54 PM

Time is getting short you might want to consider what pr0
had to say or find someone in the USA you can trust until the rebill are gone... Just a thought.

pr0 · 10-24-2002, 06:55 PM

Kimmykim · 10-24-2002, 07:04 PM

I am just not believing this. Over the last ten days, I have seen several people post urls to companies that will incorporate you in the US, be your agent in the US, get you bank accts and tax ids in the US... most of which seemed to be in the 500 dollar range complete.

For non US webmasters who were potentially going to be affected by all these regulations to have sat and done nothing basically, then start screaming about it at the 11th hour, is unfathomable to me.

It would seem the prepared businessman would have spent the 500 bucks or so it was to get something firm as a backup ready, and then not use it if need be, especially if there are large numbers of rebills on the line. Get it done, if you need it you had it, if not, well you were only out the 500 bucks, a small price to pay to be prepared.

I also have heard for the last year or two that Australia has laws against internet pornography, so why in the world would Aussie region banks start processing for it, if it's not really even legal where they are?

Or at least taken the other route and gone with some of these guys who claim they can slide you in under the radar, if you don't have many rebills, and then wait and see how long it takes for Visa to terminate them.

Of course it is up to everyone to run their business how they choose, and we just ante'd up 750 bucks to multiple processors this week, which doesn't help the bottom line this month, but to do nothing, based on possibles, is just beyond me.

DangerDave · 10-24-2002, 07:13 PM

Why do you all assume we have been sitting on our arses for 2 mths doing nothing sheesh!

Why do you all assume it is easy for us to set up a US identity and why would you assume that we want to.

There are far more ramifications for off-shore webmasters than just paying the fukin $$.

Quote:

For non US webmasters who were potentially going to be affected by all these regulations to have sat and done nothing basically, then start screaming about it at the 11th hour, is unfathomable to me.

No one is screaming KK, this is new NEWS.

Quote:

I also have heard for the last year or two that Australia has laws against internet pornography, so why in the world would Aussie region banks start processing for it, if it's not really even legal where they are?

Just plain WRONG!

Quote:

Of course it is up to everyone to run their business how they choose

Ty

DD

garv · 10-24-2002, 07:17 PM

Kimmykim, the reason most Australian webmasters didn't bother was cause CCBill had been saying Oceanic would still be processing.

On the 21/10 I received from CCBill

"You will be included in the ?Asian? region for Visa. We do have a banking presence there and I am confidant we can process for you."

As you can see it I like other Australian webmasters were under the impression that CCBIll were going to do it.

After reading this article
http://www.ynotmasters.com/news/ynew...002/page3.html
and talking to accountants and lawyers in Australia it seemed impossible to work away around this.

I guess atleast the UK are safe.

regards
garv

Kimmykim · 10-24-2002, 07:21 PM

News, not news, Dave, the bottom line is still one that ANY non US webmasters using US processors realized that there could be a problem and either did or didn't act accordingly.

One of my Aussie friends with over 100 sites and many rebills across multiple processors is a prime example. He set up in the US just in case. I guess he's glad he did now.

Sambuka · 10-24-2002, 07:27 PM

Well, I live in Aussie, I am processing with Epoch & Ibill and they both told me that Australia's webmasters are farked unless they reg a US or in Ibill's case a US OR Europe company.

So Ibill gave me a place to goto to get a US corp setup and it was just setup yesterday and I just got back my Tax ID from the IRS. I don't have a US bank account but both Ibill and epoch say one isn't needed (so far anyways). I will be setting a bank account up within the next couple of weeks just incase.

If you have any rebills you wanted to keep that was worth paying the $500-1000 for setting up the company then you would of done it. If not merge with someone you can trust in the US.

Sammy

Kimmykim · 10-24-2002, 07:28 PM

Sammy is a perfect example.

I am not dogging the rest of you guys, I am just completely floored that you are getting caught with your pants down, on what might have been, instead of preparing for the worst.

.:Frog:. · 10-24-2002, 07:41 PM

Go with an European processor if your in AU.

Shoplifter · 10-24-2002, 07:46 PM

Sammy did you actually do the registration yet?

I have USA and UK presence...trying to choose lol.

spanky · 10-24-2002, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by garv

On the 21/10 I received from CCBill

"You will be included in the ?Asian? region for Visa. We do have a banking presence there and I am confidant we can process for you."

I don't use ccbill, did they really say that? That seems like a pretty concrete statement if they did. Was that a statement from ccbill or was that your rep? Either way, that is not cool at all if they told you in writting that they could process for you.

mrthumbs · 10-24-2002, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DangerDave
mrthumbs - yes big time! - http://www.ipsp-faq.com/

Nah.. i'm not believing it.. you just wanna spread rumor..

It's your site. isnt it? Nasty.. very nasty..

It's OBVIOUS Visa wouldnt do a thing like this...not to us..

Come up with something else..

mrthumbs · 10-24-2002, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch XXX

have you seen the Electro 2? Soon soon sono

mmmm

There arent many fun gear releases lately..
Nothing that motivated me to go shopping for new stuff.

Just received some TLA outboard goodies today..
Gonna play with it in a bit.. i think itll be trash. Oh well.

XXX_Jman · 10-24-2002, 08:04 PM

DD,

you are not alone....right there with ya...
the countdown begins...

DangerDave · 10-24-2002, 08:11 PM

KK,

Quote:

News, not news, Dave, the bottom line is still one that ANY non US webmasters using US processors realized that there could be a problem and either did or didn't act accordingly.

Yes it is, this email was recieved in the last 4 hours by an AU webmasters - and THAT is news.

Of course we knew about the problems,..... why are you still assuming 'we' know nothing and are sitting here doing nothing.

DD

Sambuka · 10-24-2002, 08:17 PM

[email protected] <[email protected]>

we used INCORPSERVICES.com who charged us about $1000 total. There are cheaper out there, but i've heard stories some of these super cheap ones don't give you all the company stamps, share certificates etc.

Incorpservices.com was pretty good, but they were swamped by the sounds of it, we had 1 more day for Ibill to go and we were calling them everynight asking for our damn Tax ID number. They were answering emails at 11pm at night and said there was a lot of webmasters like us that they were getting the ID's for at the last moment.

If you have a UK company, and thats considered to be in Europe, and your using Ibill or CCbill use that UK company instead. You won't get charged the $750 fees. At least Ibill don't charge for EU companies just US.

Sammy

XXX_Jman · 10-24-2002, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sambuka
[email protected] <[email protected]>

we used INCORPSERVICES.com who charged us about $1000 total. There are cheaper out there, but i've heard stories some of these super cheap ones don't give you all the company stamps, share certificates etc.

Incorpservices.com was pretty good, but they were swamped by the sounds of it, we had 1 more day for Ibill to go and we were calling them everynight asking for our damn Tax ID number. They were answering emails at 11pm at night and said there was a lot of webmasters like us that they were getting the ID's for at the last moment.

If you have a UK company, and thats considered to be in Europe, and your using Ibill or CCbill use that UK company instead. You won't get charged the $750 fees. At least Ibill don't charge for EU companies just US.

Sammy

"The immediate reaction of many foreign Webmasters to the Visa regulations is to run out and form a business entity in the United States. Once they have the entity in place, the general plan is to then transfer money from the bank account of the entity to their local account. The most popular jurisdiction for using this strategy is Nevada. This strategy, however, carries significant practical and tax risks."
by Richard A. Chapo, Esq. AdultInternetLaw.com

The coy setup is a piece of piss...the prob's are the tax implications - as above...

The Other Steve · 10-24-2002, 08:42 PM

We hear you too Dave - its amazing how one minute CCBill can be saying that we will be ok - everything is going to be fixed and then at the last minute they change their minds. Makes you wonder if they knew the truth all along and were just keeping us hanging on for a few extra rebills

The bloody CCBill sycophants really need to get in touch with reality and the reality is that some of us have not even received that email yet so CCBill is not the wonderful company dedicated to serving its webmasters that it and its yes people would have us believe.

We've had plan B in place for weeks and its just a matter of changing over sign-up pages. Fortunately we won't lose as many rebills as some but if you can weather those lost re-bills then there are companies out there who can bill for Aussies, they don't need us to be registered in Little Butt Fuck Arkansas and they will give us more billing options than just the major American credit cards. And they won't restrict us to using just one biller

IMHO moving to one of those billers will be a benefit in the long term.

It will be interesting to see just what happens in the coming months. All those who have registered in the US or were already there are not going to find things as easy as they might think. With each site carrying its own charge back ratios there are going to be some people in serious trouble not far down the track.

directfiesta · 10-24-2002, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pr0
Ok so give me some money & i'll run your shit in the U.S., whats the big deal?

Nice blackmail situation... How about if your US site could not accept clients with credit cards from outside the US???

Would you give me money .....

The Other Steve · 10-24-2002, 08:48 PM

Quote:

[i]
.

I also have heard for the last year or two that Australia has laws against internet pornography, [/B]

Seems you are not as well informed as you might think you are because you are WRONG

directfiesta · 10-24-2002, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

It would seem the prepared businessman would have spent the 500 bucks or so it was to get something firm as a backup ready, and then not use it if need be, especially if there are large numbers of rebills on the line. Get it done, if you need it you had it, if not, well you were only out the 500 bucks, a small price to pay to be prepared.

[/B]

Very deep toughts... Ever tough of Tax implications??? As a Canadian citizen, I would have taken from my sales:

- 15 % for the billing company
- 30 % for US witholding tax ( no refund from our End)
- 30-40 % Canadian Income Tax

Total: 75% to 85% ...
And I dont take in consideration the 10% holdback....
Neither the amortization of all the fees...

Is tha tsuch a small price.... I would like to see you in my situation... I am sure you would just shut the fuck up, and not be so arrogant....

XXX_Jman · 10-24-2002, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by directfiesta

Very deep thoughts... Ever though of Tax implications???

I am sure you would just shut the fuck up, and not be so arrogant....

I think it's called shooting from the hip...
It is obviously not her prob.....so she has done no actual research...

bwwc · 10-28-2002, 12:16 AM

DangerDave,

Are you 100% sure CCBILL are no longer doing Australia webmasters. Have you tried to get confirmation from them by email, the last I heard from them was that we would be part of the Asian Pacific region and would be OK. I have not yet received the email that you mentioned.

Sambuka · 10-28-2002, 01:06 AM

"The immediate reaction of many foreign Webmasters to the Visa regulations is to run out and form a business entity in the United States. Once they have the entity in place, the general plan is to then transfer money from the bank account of the entity to their local account. The most popular jurisdiction for using this strategy is Nevada. This strategy, however, carries significant practical and tax risks."
by Richard A. Chapo, Esq. AdultInternetLaw.com

The coy setup is a piece of piss...the prob's are the tax implications - as above...

====================

Well if your accoutant and lawyer are smart enough and work together, they will come up with a nice setup where the US govt get only 7.5% tax or something like that. The money is all paid for management fees, hosting fees, trafffic fees, whatever fees you want to make. That uses up ALL the money and therefore the US govt gets fuck all. You have to be a reasonable size to warrent all this shit though.

Sammy

The Other Steve · 10-28-2002, 02:14 AM

bwcc - Garv is an aussie webmaster although most of us might try and disown him

He was the lucky duck who got the email.

On another little note - CCBill seem to have been scrubbing our site like crazy - two sign-ups in a week.

We changed to Globill yesterday - sign-ups are MUCH improved

bwwc · 10-29-2002, 06:29 PM

Emailed them for clarification on the situation for AU webmasters and this is the reply I just received. Info regarding AU webmasters is in about third last paragraph.

#########################################
Important Information Regarding VISA IPSP Registration for
EU Based Sponsored Merchants

October 29, 2002

Dear Webmaster-

As the processor for your website's online transactions, and in a continued
effort to offer you support and assistance during this volatile time, we are
extremely pleased to announce CCBillEU, CCBill's IPSP for VISA Sponsored
Merchants with businesses based in countries located within the VISA
designated European Union Region* VISA EU Region Country List. CCBillEU can
offer you the option to process VISA transactions for your e-business after
November 15, 2002, with a simple registration and without initial set up
fees.

Because, the acquiring institution for CCBillEU is not located in the United
States, processing fees will be slightly higher. If you elect to use
CCBillEU for your processing, you must agree to a blanket 1.5% increase in
your current CCBill processing rate for all processing after November 15,
2002.

If you are an EU (European Union) Based Client, you can now complete the
VISA IPSP Sponsored Merchant Registration process with a quick review of
your account information on the Webmaster Admin at
https://reports.ccbill.com/altindex.cgi. You will be required to review your
current account information, and add any additional business license and or
country identification number information you may have, and then agree to
the terms of the 1.5% increase in your processing rate. By early this
afternoon, simply log into your account and look for the pop up message to
begin the process.

At this time, this is the only information that we require from EU based
clients for registering their business as a VISA Sponsored Merchant with
CCBillEU. However, over the course of the next three to four weeks, European
Based Sponsored Merchants may be required to provide additional data, and
finalize the terms of this agreement.

We continue to work diligently on a solution for our Canadian Based CCBill
clients. However, at this time, there still remains no viable VISA
processing solution for this select group of Webmasters. We would like to
thank our Canadian Based clients for their patience, and following a final
round of discussions with influential sources, we will provide a direct and
definitive response to these clients on Friday, November 1, 2002.

We have less positive news for our clients based in the VISA processing
regions outside of the US and EU regions, including the Asia Pacific region
(click here to view a list of countries in these regions). At this time,
because of a lack of practical options, we have decided to conclude our
exploration for VISA processing in these regions.

We know that this is a small attempt to assist a portion of our clients with
their efforts to maintain the health and prosperity of their businesses, and
that there still remains many issues and concerns to be addressed and
resolved. As we continue to search and secure options, we urge you to check
ipsp-faq , the CCBill.com FAQ resource for VISA IPSP information on a
regular basis for current information on this important topic. Please know
that our plan is to contact you immediately when we have the answers you and
we need to comply with Visa's requirements.

Everyone at CCBill.com would like to thank you for your continued patience
with both us and the current VISA situation. Please know that your account
representative is available to discuss your plans for your account and
address your questions at any time, and can be reached at 800.510.2859, or
at [email protected].

Best regards,

Ron Cadwell
CEO
CCBill.com

DangerDave · 10-29-2002, 06:45 PM

Thanks bwwc,

I aint got mine yet..

but that is about as close to concrete info as I have seen.

Fuk you CCBill

DD

Splicer · 10-29-2002, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pr0

The Other Steve · 10-29-2002, 08:46 PM

We haven't got ours either - a wonderful example of how CCBill treats and cares for its customers.

They knew this was coming months ago and they never told anyone until they had no choice. Then they filled us full of bullshit with hints that they could fix the problem for us. They just wanted to keep us hanging on so that they could get just that bit more money out of us.

Well they fucked some people well and truly but they have also delivered a warning to all their other webmasters and all those little CCBill sycophants who have been popping up in this and other threads should take heed.

CCBill will fuck you just as quickly as they did it to us if that will suit their business plan. CCBill obviously think that such traits as customer service and loyalty to their customers are outmoded and when they have to they will screw you like they did us regardless of whether your name is KimmyKim or Aussie Bob from Bullamakanka.

bhutocracy · 10-29-2002, 09:06 PM

Danger Dave isn't exactly the kind of guy to be late to this sort of info

- he's just showing that CCBill have been totally unclear as to our situation, giving one bit of info to one person - and another bit to another.. of course people have been looking into setting up in the US - or the other billing solutions.. but it kinda sucks to have to ignore things your billing company has said and just go for worst case scenario.. It would have been better for them to have not said anything about processing for the oceania region in the first place.

Webby · 10-29-2002, 10:23 PM

For any non US webmaster, start on the basis that you have been fucked by US domestic processors/VISA US.

IBill, CCBill, Epoch are US domestic processors. Irrespective of where they create banking relationships outside of the US, they still remain "US domestic processors" and want a sperm count and DNA sample prior to a client doing business with them. This is unacceptable.

The thought of adopting their "solution" and remain a client is to incorporate some US entity, - that is like some suicide pact and, rest assured, it ain't no basis for a stable business. Forgetting all the US corporate tax crap blah, I got little doubt we ain't seen the rest of the "rules" and control yet to come out of VISA or the US.

There are plenty processors worldwide who will do transacting without checking up your ass first and without the need for any incorporating in the US.

This is just too funny if it was not serious!

Bear · 10-30-2002, 01:33 AM

Yeah, I agree with Weddy.

Don't you think you can just setup a US company and transfer all your money to your local bank account? Is it just easy as that? Don't you think IRS or US gov will know about that? If yes, you will be in deep trouble. So plan before you act, or follow the US rules carefully.

Have anyone consider to open a company in Gibraltar? It's also in the EU, and it's zero coporation tax and personal tax. Their gov even allow you to have offshore banking. So you are totally legal. Even more, if your company located in EU, you don't have to pay the Visa and Master fee.

Shoplifter · 10-30-2002, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bear

Have anyone consider to open a company in Gibraltar? It's also in the EU, and it's zero coporation tax and personal tax. Their gov even allow you to have offshore banking. So you are totally legal. Even more, if your company located in EU, you don't have to pay the Visa and Master fee.

Bear · 10-30-2002, 01:52 AM

One more thing about Gibraltar. You have to disclouse the Beneficial Owner informatoin and they are not part of any Double Taxation Agreements. So your info won't be exchange with any gov.

Shoplifter · 10-30-2002, 02:00 AM

Gibraltar is my backup. If it is required that I have to do an EU corp it is the place to go. And because it is a British colony I can still use my offices in London.

markusborger · 10-30-2002, 04:58 AM

hey mates....don´t fight

it is time for the wise joice...... www.dibill.com

kangaroo · 10-31-2002, 02:41 AM

g'day mate
How can i do?

Is it a good idea if we change to other bill proceesor?

Incognito · 10-31-2002, 03:16 AM

The problem with EU is that once VISA USA is done with their new rules, they will probably enforce same shit in EU, where the shit part is : Whenever the processor is - there should be clients.

The original reason why there are so few of european third party billers is that european billing companies if they work by law, I stress IF, were always supposed to work only with clients in the same country.

For example there's an established big billing company in germany EBS AG. www.ebs-ag.de

Most adult webmasters know their fucked up autodial and this is so because they are big enough to always fight for their dialer.
And most adult webmasters DONT know about their credit card billing , although it's much much bigger that their dialers, because only big dudes use them and a lot of german only big dudes use them.

And a simple webmaster cant - becaue the first requirement for is to have a company in Germany if You'd like their third party billing.

Half of smaller not known billing companies mentioned here often on GFY dont even work legal because they use non high risk merchant accounts.

Now after 15th of November a lot can change. Remember on early rumours it was said that after 15th November only billing companies connected to Tier1 banks will be allowed.
VISA might not ever notice a new small billing company. Right?

But how do You think with all clients running to those companies from Ibill, CCBILL and Epoch who'd be calling everyday to VISA to show them guys who break their rules?

Also if the VISA USA will be able to control and enforce rules over USA billing companies, beleive me, European billing companies simply wont make it or to make it even more exact their requirement will JUST BE THE SAME: that to work with them You will have to have a presence in the same place.
And I wont be suprised if they will start prohibing Gibraltar for example as the only offshore territory in EU.

And if so, I beleive You'd have two choices :
a)Company in USA
b) Company in EU

now since most of surfers and profit are US based and since that choice does not include offshores and You'll have to pay taxes anyway I'd vote to at least try to register a US presence. It's just more natural. If Your payers are in america , well , fuck it, lets bill them in america.

pet kangaroo · 10-31-2002, 04:10 AM

OK, here's the summary, as I see it:

1. Incorporate in the U.S.

Cheapest method, problems with US regulatory bodies. Could pay US taxes on income and then pay yourself a dividend, but problems with withholding tax credits not passing on to Australia (therefore double taxed). Could try and run the company at a reduced profit (or even loss) by charging the company a fee from your Australian business, but the IRS and SEC would not look favourably upon this. ***risky*** I don't like the idea of messing with the big boys

2. Incorporate in Europe

More expensive. Looking at around AU$6000 to do this, no matter which country. Pointless registering in a tax haven because your working and earning the money from Australia, so should be taxed in Australia. Of course if you setup a bank account in that tax haven and deposit the funds there, nobody needs to know about it. England has been suggested as the best alternative, with tax treaties in place, but very expensive as I said earlier.

Just a side note. If you do want to use a tax haven, my Chartered Accountant suggested one of the channel islands (e.g. Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey) as they are covered by British laws. Once again the cost seems to be about the same.

3. Change billers

I've had a few billers say they are prepared to take over, but would potentially lose a high percentage of rebills.

4. I personally use iBill. I was told 2 days ago when speaking to my representative that iBill had put a proposal to VISA to establish an iBill 'portal' that all foreign webmasters effected by this regulation could possibly register with. They are apparently waiting on approval for this??? I know that this advise has to be taken with a grain of salt!! Anyone heard anything similar?

5. I've approached Australian banks about registering as a Merchant with them and doing the whole bloody thing myself. It's been two weeks and I haven't even heard back from NAB and CBA. Looks like a waste of time. Aussie banks are a bunch of hicks.

Hope someone finds some of the info useful. I'd love to hear back what others have found out and even what solutions they've come up with, if any.

Master_Yoba · 10-31-2002, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bear
Yeah, I agree with Weddy.

... Have anyone consider to open a company in Gibraltar? It's also in the EU, and it's zero coporation tax and personal tax. Their gov even allow you to have offshore banking. So you are totally legal. Even more, if your company located in EU, you don't have to pay the Visa and Master fee.

Tax havens rules!
US corps are fucked up once again!

Yes, Channel Islands and Cyprus are good too.

PornoBug · 10-31-2002, 05:25 AM

We dumped iBill today... and it feels great to finally have rid ourselves of those bastards.

On the subject of alternative billing companies , can anyone provide some feedback on PSW ?

corvette · 10-31-2002, 08:12 AM

The Other Steve,

We would love to be able to process visa cards for the Asian-Pacific region. I was hoping very much that we would be able to continue to do so. After spending some time researching the available options, the feasibility of those options, and the impending deadline, we had to make a very difficult decision.

When we process for our clients, our fee is a percentage of their sales. We would have a very poor business model if we purposefully rejected good business. We had little choice.

Personally, I don?t like it any more than you do. We were very hopeful about continuing to process visa for the Asian-Pacific region. Ever since we found out about the new visa regulations, we immediately began to explore all of our options. From the beginning, we knew that there was one definite visa region that CCBill can process for, the US. Our sales staff was instructed to make that clear to all of our clients.

Remember, this only affects Visa sales. No matter where you are, you can still process MasterCard, Discover, JCB, and online check transactions with CCBill

If anybody wants to talk about this please email me

Garv, if that was a CCBill email that you posted, please email it to me

[email protected]

Thanks

10-24-2002, 06:18 PM	#1
DangerDave Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sydney/AU Posts: 34	CCBIll fucks AU webmasters <HR> Dear CCBill Client, This email is in regards to the recent updates that you have given us for your account with CCBill. You have given us an address for your business that is outside of the United States. Because of the new Visa regulations, we will be unable to process for your account after the 15th. We are only allowed to process for accounts in the regions that we represent, which are Europe and the U.S. In order to continue processing with us it will be necessary for you to either have a U.S. based business or Principle. Please go to www.ipsp-faq.com for further information. xxxxxx xxxxxxx [email protected] CCBill & Cavecreek Hosting <HR> Thanks CCBill - Lamers

10-24-2002, 06:20 PM	#2
pr0 rockin tha trailerpark Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: ~Coastal~ Posts: 23,088	Ok so give me some money & i'll run your shit in the U.S., whats the big deal? __________________ __________ Loadedca$h - get sum! - Revengebucks - mmm rebills! - webair (gotz sErVrz)

10-24-2002, 06:54 PM	#9
jimmyf OU812 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: California Posts: 12,651	Time is getting short you might want to consider what pr0 had to say or find someone in the USA you can trust until the rebill are gone... Just a thought. __________________ Epic CashEpic Cash works for me Solar Cash Paysite Plugin Gallery of the day freesites,POTD,Gallery generator with free hosting

10-24-2002, 06:55 PM	#10
pr0 rockin tha trailerpark Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: ~Coastal~ Posts: 23,088	__________________ __________ Loadedca$h - get sum! - Revengebucks - mmm rebills! - webair (gotz sErVrz)

10-24-2002, 07:17 PM	#13
garv Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 87	Kimmykim, the reason most Australian webmasters didn't bother was cause CCBill had been saying Oceanic would still be processing. On the 21/10 I received from CCBill "You will be included in the ?Asian? region for Visa. We do have a banking presence there and I am confidant we can process for you." As you can see it I like other Australian webmasters were under the impression that CCBIll were going to do it. After reading this article http://www.ynotmasters.com/news/ynew...002/page3.html and talking to accountants and lawyers in Australia it seemed impossible to work away around this. I guess atleast the UK are safe. regards garv __________________ left the biz

10-24-2002, 06:20 PM	#3
mrthumbs salad tossing sig guy Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: mrthumbs*gmail.com Posts: 11,702	Are there new Visa regulations?

10-24-2002, 06:26 PM	#4
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	ah where you been for the last three weeks, i guess someone didn't tell you

10-24-2002, 06:27 PM	#5
DangerDave Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sydney/AU Posts: 34	mrthumbs - yes big time! - http://www.ipsp-faq.com/ pr0 - go away DD

10-24-2002, 06:44 PM	#7
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	DangerDave it affects most of the c.c processors,not only ccbill and it has been a major topic among adult webmasters the last month.

10-24-2002, 06:47 PM	#8
DangerDave Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sydney/AU Posts: 34	Soul_rebel, I am quite aware of that and have been for some time... This is NEW information recieved by an AU webmaster in the last few hours, and ifs vastly different to much of what has been actually said to us. DD

10-24-2002, 07:04 PM	#11
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	I am just not believing this. Over the last ten days, I have seen several people post urls to companies that will incorporate you in the US, be your agent in the US, get you bank accts and tax ids in the US... most of which seemed to be in the 500 dollar range complete. For non US webmasters who were potentially going to be affected by all these regulations to have sat and done nothing basically, then start screaming about it at the 11th hour, is unfathomable to me. It would seem the prepared businessman would have spent the 500 bucks or so it was to get something firm as a backup ready, and then not use it if need be, especially if there are large numbers of rebills on the line. Get it done, if you need it you had it, if not, well you were only out the 500 bucks, a small price to pay to be prepared. I also have heard for the last year or two that Australia has laws against internet pornography, so why in the world would Aussie region banks start processing for it, if it's not really even legal where they are? Or at least taken the other route and gone with some of these guys who claim they can slide you in under the radar, if you don't have many rebills, and then wait and see how long it takes for Visa to terminate them. Of course it is up to everyone to run their business how they choose, and we just ante'd up 750 bucks to multiple processors this week, which doesn't help the bottom line this month, but to do nothing, based on possibles, is just beyond me.

10-24-2002, 07:21 PM	#14
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	News, not news, Dave, the bottom line is still one that ANY non US webmasters using US processors realized that there could be a problem and either did or didn't act accordingly. One of my Aussie friends with over 100 sites and many rebills across multiple processors is a prime example. He set up in the US just in case. I guess he's glad he did now.

10-24-2002, 07:27 PM	#15
Sambuka Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: - Posts: 500	Well, I live in Aussie, I am processing with Epoch & Ibill and they both told me that Australia's webmasters are farked unless they reg a US or in Ibill's case a US OR Europe company. So Ibill gave me a place to goto to get a US corp setup and it was just setup yesterday and I just got back my Tax ID from the IRS. I don't have a US bank account but both Ibill and epoch say one isn't needed (so far anyways). I will be setting a bank account up within the next couple of weeks just incase. If you have any rebills you wanted to keep that was worth paying the $500-1000 for setting up the company then you would of done it. If not merge with someone you can trust in the US. Sammy

10-24-2002, 07:28 PM	#16
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Sammy is a perfect example. I am not dogging the rest of you guys, I am just completely floored that you are getting caught with your pants down, on what might have been, instead of preparing for the worst.

10-24-2002, 07:41 PM	#17
.:Frog:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ~ C A N A D A ~ Posts: 2,123	Go with an European processor if your in AU. __________________ <a href="http://www.pornopayouts.com/?rid=pp3076">PornoPayouts</a> Tons of Hosted Galleries.

10-24-2002, 07:46 PM	#18
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,726	Sammy did you actually do the registration yet? I have USA and UK presence...trying to choose lol.

10-24-2002, 08:04 PM	#22
XXX_Jman Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Up my own ass Posts: 213	DD, you are not alone....right there with ya... the countdown begins... __________________ XXX_Jman "To win without fighting is best"

10-24-2002, 08:17 PM	#24
Sambuka Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: - Posts: 500	[email protected] <[email protected]> we used INCORPSERVICES.com who charged us about $1000 total. There are cheaper out there, but i've heard stories some of these super cheap ones don't give you all the company stamps, share certificates etc. Incorpservices.com was pretty good, but they were swamped by the sounds of it, we had 1 more day for Ibill to go and we were calling them everynight asking for our damn Tax ID number. They were answering emails at 11pm at night and said there was a lot of webmasters like us that they were getting the ID's for at the last moment. If you have a UK company, and thats considered to be in Europe, and your using Ibill or CCbill use that UK company instead. You won't get charged the $750 fees. At least Ibill don't charge for EU companies just US. Sammy

10-24-2002, 08:42 PM	#26
The Other Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sunny Queensland - perfect one day and better the next. Posts: 2,106	We hear you too Dave - its amazing how one minute CCBill can be saying that we will be ok - everything is going to be fixed and then at the last minute they change their minds. Makes you wonder if they knew the truth all along and were just keeping us hanging on for a few extra rebills The bloody CCBill sycophants really need to get in touch with reality and the reality is that some of us have not even received that email yet so CCBill is not the wonderful company dedicated to serving its webmasters that it and its yes people would have us believe. We've had plan B in place for weeks and its just a matter of changing over sign-up pages. Fortunately we won't lose as many rebills as some but if you can weather those lost re-bills then there are companies out there who can bill for Aussies, they don't need us to be registered in Little Butt Fuck Arkansas and they will give us more billing options than just the major American credit cards. And they won't restrict us to using just one biller IMHO moving to one of those billers will be a benefit in the long term. It will be interesting to see just what happens in the coming months. All those who have registered in the US or were already there are not going to find things as easy as they might think. With each site carrying its own charge back ratios there are going to be some people in serious trouble not far down the track. __________________ Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain

10-28-2002, 12:16 AM	#31
bwwc Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3	DangerDave, Are you 100% sure CCBILL are no longer doing Australia webmasters. Have you tried to get confirmation from them by email, the last I heard from them was that we would be part of the Asian Pacific region and would be OK. I have not yet received the email that you mentioned.

10-28-2002, 01:06 AM	#32
Sambuka Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: - Posts: 500	"The immediate reaction of many foreign Webmasters to the Visa regulations is to run out and form a business entity in the United States. Once they have the entity in place, the general plan is to then transfer money from the bank account of the entity to their local account. The most popular jurisdiction for using this strategy is Nevada. This strategy, however, carries significant practical and tax risks." by Richard A. Chapo, Esq. AdultInternetLaw.com The coy setup is a piece of piss...the prob's are the tax implications - as above... ==================== Well if your accoutant and lawyer are smart enough and work together, they will come up with a nice setup where the US govt get only 7.5% tax or something like that. The money is all paid for management fees, hosting fees, trafffic fees, whatever fees you want to make. That uses up ALL the money and therefore the US govt gets fuck all. You have to be a reasonable size to warrent all this shit though. Sammy

10-28-2002, 02:14 AM	#33
The Other Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sunny Queensland - perfect one day and better the next. Posts: 2,106	bwcc - Garv is an aussie webmaster although most of us might try and disown him He was the lucky duck who got the email. On another little note - CCBill seem to have been scrubbing our site like crazy - two sign-ups in a week. We changed to Globill yesterday - sign-ups are MUCH improved __________________ Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain Last edited by The Other Steve; 10-28-2002 at 02:16 AM..

10-29-2002, 06:29 PM	#34
bwwc Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3	Emailed them for clarification on the situation for AU webmasters and this is the reply I just received. Info regarding AU webmasters is in about third last paragraph. ######################################### Important Information Regarding VISA IPSP Registration for EU Based Sponsored Merchants October 29, 2002 Dear Webmaster- As the processor for your website's online transactions, and in a continued effort to offer you support and assistance during this volatile time, we are extremely pleased to announce CCBillEU, CCBill's IPSP for VISA Sponsored Merchants with businesses based in countries located within the VISA designated European Union Region* VISA EU Region Country List. CCBillEU can offer you the option to process VISA transactions for your e-business after November 15, 2002, with a simple registration and without initial set up fees. Because, the acquiring institution for CCBillEU is not located in the United States, processing fees will be slightly higher. If you elect to use CCBillEU for your processing, you must agree to a blanket 1.5% increase in your current CCBill processing rate for all processing after November 15, 2002. If you are an EU (European Union) Based Client, you can now complete the VISA IPSP Sponsored Merchant Registration process with a quick review of your account information on the Webmaster Admin at https://reports.ccbill.com/altindex.cgi. You will be required to review your current account information, and add any additional business license and or country identification number information you may have, and then agree to the terms of the 1.5% increase in your processing rate. By early this afternoon, simply log into your account and look for the pop up message to begin the process. At this time, this is the only information that we require from EU based clients for registering their business as a VISA Sponsored Merchant with CCBillEU. However, over the course of the next three to four weeks, European Based Sponsored Merchants may be required to provide additional data, and finalize the terms of this agreement. We continue to work diligently on a solution for our Canadian Based CCBill clients. However, at this time, there still remains no viable VISA processing solution for this select group of Webmasters. We would like to thank our Canadian Based clients for their patience, and following a final round of discussions with influential sources, we will provide a direct and definitive response to these clients on Friday, November 1, 2002. We have less positive news for our clients based in the VISA processing regions outside of the US and EU regions, including the Asia Pacific region (click here to view a list of countries in these regions). At this time, because of a lack of practical options, we have decided to conclude our exploration for VISA processing in these regions. We know that this is a small attempt to assist a portion of our clients with their efforts to maintain the health and prosperity of their businesses, and that there still remains many issues and concerns to be addressed and resolved. As we continue to search and secure options, we urge you to check ipsp-faq , the CCBill.com FAQ resource for VISA IPSP information on a regular basis for current information on this important topic. Please know that our plan is to contact you immediately when we have the answers you and we need to comply with Visa's requirements. Everyone at CCBill.com would like to thank you for your continued patience with both us and the current VISA situation. Please know that your account representative is available to discuss your plans for your account and address your questions at any time, and can be reached at 800.510.2859, or at [email protected]. Best regards, Ron Cadwell CEO CCBill.com

10-29-2002, 06:45 PM	#35
DangerDave Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sydney/AU Posts: 34	Thanks bwwc, I aint got mine yet.. but that is about as close to concrete info as I have seen. Fuk you CCBill DD

10-29-2002, 08:46 PM	#37
The Other Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sunny Queensland - perfect one day and better the next. Posts: 2,106	We haven't got ours either - a wonderful example of how CCBill treats and cares for its customers. They knew this was coming months ago and they never told anyone until they had no choice. Then they filled us full of bullshit with hints that they could fix the problem for us. They just wanted to keep us hanging on so that they could get just that bit more money out of us. Well they fucked some people well and truly but they have also delivered a warning to all their other webmasters and all those little CCBill sycophants who have been popping up in this and other threads should take heed. CCBill will fuck you just as quickly as they did it to us if that will suit their business plan. CCBill obviously think that such traits as customer service and loyalty to their customers are outmoded and when they have to they will screw you like they did us regardless of whether your name is KimmyKim or Aussie Bob from Bullamakanka. __________________ Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain Last edited by The Other Steve; 10-29-2002 at 08:53 PM..

10-29-2002, 09:06 PM	#38
bhutocracy Not making A Comeback Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,218	Danger Dave isn't exactly the kind of guy to be late to this sort of info - he's just showing that CCBill have been totally unclear as to our situation, giving one bit of info to one person - and another bit to another.. of course people have been looking into setting up in the US - or the other billing solutions.. but it kinda sucks to have to ignore things your billing company has said and just go for worst case scenario.. It would have been better for them to have not said anything about processing for the oceania region in the first place.

10-29-2002, 10:23 PM	#39
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	For any non US webmaster, start on the basis that you have been fucked by US domestic processors/VISA US. IBill, CCBill, Epoch are US domestic processors. Irrespective of where they create banking relationships outside of the US, they still remain "US domestic processors" and want a sperm count and DNA sample prior to a client doing business with them. This is unacceptable. The thought of adopting their "solution" and remain a client is to incorporate some US entity, - that is like some suicide pact and, rest assured, it ain't no basis for a stable business. Forgetting all the US corporate tax crap blah, I got little doubt we ain't seen the rest of the "rules" and control yet to come out of VISA or the US. There are plenty processors worldwide who will do transacting without checking up your ass first and without the need for any incorporating in the US. This is just too funny if it was not serious!

10-30-2002, 01:33 AM	#40
Bear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 261	Yeah, I agree with Weddy. Don't you think you can just setup a US company and transfer all your money to your local bank account? Is it just easy as that? Don't you think IRS or US gov will know about that? If yes, you will be in deep trouble. So plan before you act, or follow the US rules carefully. Have anyone consider to open a company in Gibraltar? It's also in the EU, and it's zero coporation tax and personal tax. Their gov even allow you to have offshore banking. So you are totally legal. Even more, if your company located in EU, you don't have to pay the Visa and Master fee.

10-30-2002, 01:52 AM	#42
Bear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 261	One more thing about Gibraltar. You have to disclouse the Beneficial Owner informatoin and they are not part of any Double Taxation Agreements. So your info won't be exchange with any gov.

10-30-2002, 02:00 AM	#43
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,726	Gibraltar is my backup. If it is required that I have to do an EU corp it is the place to go. And because it is a British colony I can still use my offices in London.

10-30-2002, 04:58 AM	#44
markusborger So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 145	hey mates....don´t fight it is time for the wise joice...... www.dibill.com

10-31-2002, 02:41 AM	#45
kangaroo Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 112	g'day mate How can i do? Is it a good idea if we change to other bill proceesor?

10-31-2002, 03:16 AM	#46
Incognito Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: RU Posts: 371	The problem with EU is that once VISA USA is done with their new rules, they will probably enforce same shit in EU, where the shit part is : Whenever the processor is - there should be clients. The original reason why there are so few of european third party billers is that european billing companies if they work by law, I stress IF, were always supposed to work only with clients in the same country. For example there's an established big billing company in germany EBS AG. www.ebs-ag.de Most adult webmasters know their fucked up autodial and this is so because they are big enough to always fight for their dialer. And most adult webmasters DONT know about their credit card billing , although it's much much bigger that their dialers, because only big dudes use them and a lot of german only big dudes use them. And a simple webmaster cant - becaue the first requirement for is to have a company in Germany if You'd like their third party billing. Half of smaller not known billing companies mentioned here often on GFY dont even work legal because they use non high risk merchant accounts. Now after 15th of November a lot can change. Remember on early rumours it was said that after 15th November only billing companies connected to Tier1 banks will be allowed. VISA might not ever notice a new small billing company. Right? But how do You think with all clients running to those companies from Ibill, CCBILL and Epoch who'd be calling everyday to VISA to show them guys who break their rules? Also if the VISA USA will be able to control and enforce rules over USA billing companies, beleive me, European billing companies simply wont make it or to make it even more exact their requirement will JUST BE THE SAME: that to work with them You will have to have a presence in the same place. And I wont be suprised if they will start prohibing Gibraltar for example as the only offshore territory in EU. And if so, I beleive You'd have two choices : a)Company in USA b) Company in EU now since most of surfers and profit are US based and since that choice does not include offshores and You'll have to pay taxes anyway I'd vote to at least try to register a US presence. It's just more natural. If Your payers are in america , well , fuck it, lets bill them in america. __________________ -=almost fucking incognito=-

10-31-2002, 04:10 AM	#47
pet kangaroo Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 246	OK, here's the summary, as I see it: 1. Incorporate in the U.S. Cheapest method, problems with US regulatory bodies. Could pay US taxes on income and then pay yourself a dividend, but problems with withholding tax credits not passing on to Australia (therefore double taxed). Could try and run the company at a reduced profit (or even loss) by charging the company a fee from your Australian business, but the IRS and SEC would not look favourably upon this. *risky* I don't like the idea of messing with the big boys 2. Incorporate in Europe More expensive. Looking at around AU$6000 to do this, no matter which country. Pointless registering in a tax haven because your working and earning the money from Australia, so should be taxed in Australia. Of course if you setup a bank account in that tax haven and deposit the funds there, nobody needs to know about it. England has been suggested as the best alternative, with tax treaties in place, but very expensive as I said earlier. Just a side note. If you do want to use a tax haven, my Chartered Accountant suggested one of the channel islands (e.g. Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey) as they are covered by British laws. Once again the cost seems to be about the same. 3. Change billers I've had a few billers say they are prepared to take over, but would potentially lose a high percentage of rebills. 4. I personally use iBill. I was told 2 days ago when speaking to my representative that iBill had put a proposal to VISA to establish an iBill 'portal' that all foreign webmasters effected by this regulation could possibly register with. They are apparently waiting on approval for this??? I know that this advise has to be taken with a grain of salt!! Anyone heard anything similar? 5. I've approached Australian banks about registering as a Merchant with them and doing the whole bloody thing myself. It's been two weeks and I haven't even heard back from NAB and CBA. Looks like a waste of time. Aussie banks are a bunch of hicks. Hope someone finds some of the info useful. I'd love to hear back what others have found out and even what solutions they've come up with, if any.

10-31-2002, 05:25 AM	#49
PornoBug Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 237	We dumped iBill today... and it feels great to finally have rid ourselves of those bastards. On the subject of alternative billing companies , can anyone provide some feedback on PSW ?