If a program busts their ass getting traffic to CONVERT on their site... WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD THEY JUST GIVE IT TO YOU?!?!?!? Money simply isn't enough to justify doing this. They build their reputation up in the eyes of their members, and build solid brands and trust... This is worth MUCH more than your few dollars. Send traffic & joins back and maybe we'll talk. It's time to pay to play bitches!

The basic problem here is that very few in this industry know how to do things in moderation. It is either fleece the end user or offer them nothing at all in terms of content. People saying that upsells hurting retention is so cliche' Most people that say up-sells hurt retention say so because others say so, not because they have done any data crunching and can PROVE it.

Remember, we SHOULD be in the sales and marketing game. This means offering choices and opportunities for customers to give you more money. This does not mean you have to turn them upside down and shake every last cent out of them.

Does Walmart hurt customers when they have Tic-Tacs, People Magazine, and a soda pop cooler up at the cash register? Does Target hurt customers because they ask if you would like to open a Target credit card account and save 10% off your order and so on?

Even if up-sells only make you a couple $100/month then guess what? That is a couple $100 more than you had last month! If you have been turned off by up-sells then you simply haven't thought about them in the right way.

Of course you want to PLACE your product in a members area, it's the best quality traffic on earth, besides straight up pre checked cross sales from idiots. :2 cents:

Have you ever been in the members area of mayorsmoney sites.. They're packed with members area upsells.. most of them look like crap

People that listen and try new things have bigger better homes that closed minded sheep fuckers that live in boxes.

I thought most members areas were upsells, I guess I was wrong.
WG

If you are interested now, Ill push some traffic your way now, if all that stuff is behind us. :winkwink:

LOL remember that sales guy that kept trying to get your traffic and called you michael all the time

shit :1orglaugh

Bump, love the responses.

:2 cents::2 cents:

Fiddy upsells


Right there is you issue.

You want a pay site/program manager to implement your products on the chance they 'might' make some money. But you do not have anything to offer (traffic, etc) other than promises.

Webmaster, and pay site or program owners here this shit a dozen times a week. From cams to dating to other shit. Most of us have tried it at some point in the past, and saw all the 'promise' is never delivered.

So you are asking them, us, to spend time putting your stuff in our members area, diluting our brands, for your benefit, but there is no guarantee that we will see anything, and it's one more thing for us to have to track now in sales and such.

It reminded me of the ole' '97-99 days of the pay per impressions where you spent all your time putting this shit in your members areas, and site. But never received a check, and it was hell to go back and remove before the days of CSS and so on.

:2 cents:

We all heard this a thousand times.

Just like working with a VOD or clips.com you read through their licensing agreements and for your 40/30/15% split, they get shared licensing for your content. Which of course they PROMISE they will remove once you leave then.

Yeah right.

With all the rotten shit a lot of programs do to surfers, they forget they have also done to other webmasters that have been around a decade. Frankly, we get tired of the pitches and promises. You put some foot on my plate first, then I might listen.

Most contacting you contacting us are just Greasy Snake Oil Salesman 3.0. Nothing we haven't already heard. But just like the surfers who get screwed today, you screwed us tomorrow. Most, myself included, are simply no longer willing to listen to your next pitch of "money on the table".

:disgust

This mentality blows me away and I have seen it many times and it makes no sense. What BradM has to offer you in return is a **COMMISSION CHECK**. If you make no sales then he makes no sales or am I mistaken. Do you use CCBill or Epoch for processing? How many joins do you push through them? Do they send you traffic or joins... or do they send you MONEY in exchange for you pushing business through them?

The most asinine argument I've ever heard.

A processing company is a necessary evil to collect your money. You have to have them in the loop to do business until you have a merchant account. Much the same way you need hosting and a registrar.

You do not need a online used car salesmen 3.0 to sell/retain memberships and stay in business.

His point is that we can't be fucked to have a giant banner in the middle of our member areas for 17 extra bucks a month.

The only "cliche" is that whole, "money left on the table", argument.

Many of us old hats HAVE done, and tried, many things. Including listening to the 1.0 and maybe even 2.0 pitch man that came before you and is now back to being the employee of the month, fry guy, at the golden arches. We've survived in this business by doing tracking... our retention, traffic, sign ups, and even demo'd what your previous versions offered us in return on our prime real estate.

It's not worth it. From the hassle to the 'supposed' pay off.

Upsells in members areas = traffic leaks for your revshare affiliates.

AND

Why would you want to encourage your members to leave?

you spend all your time getting them to join. Why make it easier for them to leave?

How is selling a non-competitive product getting them to leave?

I'll tell you, I seriously had the same question, hence the thread. I've been mulling it over after talking to this guy a couple of days ago and after reading some of the responses in this thread and the ONLY real concern I can think of that MIGHT be legitimate is direct contact with the member.

Imagine a member joins your site. You now have direct contact with that member. How you want to USE that contact is open for debate. But you also KNOW that he's willing to pay for porn. So, after 3 months that member leaves, but YOU still have his contact info. You know the type of porn that he likes, so you either send him a disounted offer to rejoin after a while, send him to another one of YOUR sites, OR send him links to ANOTHER program so you can at least get a referring income from him. When you notice his rebill stops, you can send him another suggestion. In a sense, you could become his trusted source for porn.

So, if you add say, "product A", and he buys their product, not only do YOU have contact with them, but so does "Tim". It's NOT beyond the realm of possibility to think that he may now try to lure that member away. That "exclusive" contact that you had with that member (of course there will probably be other people who's sites he's joined) is now gone. While you've made $200 or whatever off of that member by upselling him, you may now be competing for his future business with "Tim".

Thinking of it in that sense, I could see why "joins" may be more important than another revenue stream. If I was a paysite owner, I can honestly say that I'd be looking REALLY closely at those numbers and it could very well determine whether or not I'd have upsells as well.

i tried adding some upsale products to my member's area but never made a penny off them. when i say penny, i mean that literally. i tried VOD, toy stores, and fleshlight but never made a single cent off any of them. i have a large enough member base that i should have been able to make some good money but i didn't. so, either there's some serious shaving going on or my particular members aren't interested. both scenarios are out of my control so it doesn't matter either way. that's why i don't push any of that stuff anymore.

i provide what they came to my site for "porn" and that's it. they joined because they want to see the girl so i give them as much as i can.

I think you are probably right. And... I need to make some time to do that Chica section speaking of this...Just have been completely tied up the last couple of weeks.

And don't get mad at me dgraves...but I really want to do your wife. LOL

haha...no hard feelings, she gets that all the time!

I know she must! And I went ahead and downloaded what I need so hopefully I'll get my end up over the next couple of days. Thanks.

I'd consider having some up sells for non competitive things.

Stuff like herbal supplements or legal type Viagra type products depending on what the site was like and how many leaks it had.

No way anything else like cam feeds or other sites. (unless they were mine) and that doesnt matter because all my members get access to all my sites anyways.

See I run a business, like a restaurant, people eat out at my place all the time. Why would I want to send them to another restaurant?

Why would my affiliates want me to do that?

I bet you if you asked them I'd guess what their answer would be.

Do you see McDonald's adds inside Burger King?

As far as emailing them after they cancel. That's a different story. I see no harm in that as long as they have opted in to receive your spam or newsletter or hatever you want to call it.

:2 cents::2 cents:

Bingo. Use your MA's to your advantage to make some extra income.

Obviously if you run an anal site, don't upsell to another anal site, that's just dumb.

A product like fleshlight or Brad's stuff is a good complement to any niche and wouldn't hurt retention at all.

It seems those who don't get it, just don't get it. I gave up arguing the point years ago because I understand those who don't understand have more than just members areas un-optimized. They are generally not very saavy business owners to begin with.
Sure they might make a killing, but there are probably 100 other holes the same size they could fill with other opportunities to increase income. But they won't out of fear, being uneducated, etc.

Reasoning with folks became a waste of time and I focus on those who understand how upsells work. ESPECIALLY non-compete upsells.

Actually you assessment would explain, frankly, why most would not want to do business with you on this.

1. You call us/them uneducated.

When in fact most of us have tried the 1.0 and 2.0 versions of used car salesmen that came before you with the same shtick. We tried it. Tracked the stats. Have little to no results, and have no interest in dealing with the third or fortieth coming of the same old song.

2. It's not fear it's fact.

I can't speak to all webmasters who tell you to go get fucked, but I can speak to my own experience. Many who've been around a decade have tried all these things you pitch. Maybe you have a fancier package, but many of us have tried various forms of monitization. Just because you think you, or your products are better doesn't mean shit to us.

3. Calling us unsavy business owners.

Heh. It's 2008. Those of us still in the game, and doing this full time obviously know what we are doing, and do not need your 'hot tips' to stay profitable. Competitive or not. But thanks for caring toots.

I would say we know our customer base, what they like and do not better than you. We get their e-mails, requests, and feedback. Also what they do and do not like about our sites from our tracking software.

4. You deliver nothing, but promise the moon.

As many others have said, you want us to put your shit in our members area, with the 'promise' of extra money. But most of us already have tried, and know, most of it never delivers and clutters up our members areas. We prefer to promote our own shit, and other sites and upsells for DVD, custom and so on. Something that DOES sell.

This doesn't even get into the cost of implementation. Having designers come in to mod CSS, and site designs to add in such b.s. that doesn't deliver. Making it not only a hassle, but not cost effective.

Again, experience shows us that you are in fact wasting you time. We simply are not interested in the 2008 version of the 1997 or early 2000 reruns. So it's no wonder that from independents, to programs, a lot are not interested in your sales pitches. Been there, done that. Especially when you are not coming to the table with anything more than a pipe dream of sales pitches.

Put some traffic, or joins on the plate. Then we'll talk.

i think up-sells work in members areas only if the members can buy the products/services without having to re-enter all their credit card info all over again

One click buying works for Amazon

The experience has to be seamless, otherwise it sux for our members who have a hard on and box of tissues at the ready

You also have to understand that many members reach their point of buyer remorse exactly 1 millionth of a second after they dump their load

I can sell them on anything as they are leading up to shooting their blue veined junket pumpers

Its gets much fucking harder after the Kleenex has been washed down the toilet