Here's an interesting scenario for you to ponder:

There is an information site, which sells "how to" information, and charges a one time fee. Johnny surfer pays the one time fee, and then emails the webmaster with additional questions and needs extra help because Johnny surfer is really very dumb and can not grasp the step by step process. So, the webmaster has to help him 3 - 4 times per week for a few months before Johnny surfer gets it, and begins using the information. Johnny surfer was been lucky to get all the "extra" help, as the site does not imply three months of almost daily email support as included in the one time fee price.

Well, Johnny surfer gets a refund from CCBILL for the full amount of the sale, despite the fact that he has used the how to site for over 3 months AND had daily email support and additional help at no additional charge.

This makes the webmaster a bit ticked off, but no where near as ticked off as he was when he saw that Johnny surfer had ALSO chargedback after getting his refund.

So the webmaster writes ccbill and asks them how this is possible, since Johnny surfer now has had 3 months free access and free support AND he has doubled his money in return. The webmaster is actually out money now, because CCBILL had taken out the money for the refund AND for the chargeback for the same guy.

This is why the webmaster now uses Globill for his new stuff which is much more successful.

I can not agree more!!!!!!!!!

<a href="http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/make_link.verotel?verotel_id=9804000000367069">
<img border=0 src="http://www.verotel.com/gfx/button.gif"></a>

Good question.

What makes it a good question? Is it a good question because it offers an insinuation of insult to me as an amateur or because it's totally off topic? AGAIN, the topic here is weather it's right or wrong to issue refunds AFTER the full course of the membership has been completed. If youre "question" is a sarcastic way of saying that its "ok" and to "get over it" my response to you is to get over YOURSELF and pull that half assed head out of your pussy diver cuz you still aint breathing right :)

ccbill sucks.

Simply file a small claims suit against the guy. The prospect of appearing in court and having to explain why he did not pay for his pornography will probably make him cough the money up. If he doesn?t show up all the better, ask the judge for a default judgment. The credit bureaus will pick up the default judgment, and put it on his credit report.

Life ain't fair, but CCBill doesn't set the rules. Visa and Masterard does.

You should be real happy he called CCbill instead of his credit card company.

You need to relax, you'll have a heart attack if you try to fight chargebacks one by one.

Web Girl,

I understand your frustration. I hope you can find a solution. I must ask you though, do you know how much the penalty fee for exceeding chargeback percentages is? Think five figures. Your biller has to eat those fees, that's part of the service.

refunds suck, plain and simple.

Simple solution though.. If you are not happy with ccbill and their ways of handeling your customer service, then switch.

Pay ccbill the 750 for the new visa shit and let your recurring members bill out. Go with a new processor for example epoch.. epoch has some new kickass tools to help keep, cross sell, retain, upsell etc.. Epoch will let you payout the new 750$ visa fee, so dont think its a one time upfront charge... they will deduct the 750 from future payouts to you.

I feel stupid for never going with epoch in the 1st place..Since i switched, i have 0 complaints, and if i have a problem, they actually listen and respond in a timely manner.:2 cents:

No, I have to admit that I don't. I have never had any chargebacks or refunds that I havent personally authorized as a return favor for expensive gifts from certain members. It's never been an issue for me and its a shame that a site like mine that offers no problems and little risk should have to carry the weight of those who are not so, I want to say lucky, but I think its more like conscienscious in business practice.

I do understand that as with any business there will be gains and losses but at the same time I feel that this loss was preventable and could have been handled much better on the part of CCBill ... who never nofitied me of this. I found out by reviewing my stats.

Speaking of stats, is everyone having a good weekend? I usually don't do so well on Saturdays but today is pretty decent :)

Sleepy, I appreciate your suggestions about the reports/options and I will pass them on. I know that we are upgrading our reports, so it might be a good time to add a few more features

Webgirl, Thanks for the email?

Stores normally require you to sign the sales skip or key a PIN number in. That way, they are reasonably sure that you are the cardholder. A lot of places also ask for a driver?s license to be able to match the name on the card to your picture. They save that info in case the customer disputes the charge.

On the internet, when a customer signs up for a site, we have their IP address, plus the information that they provide for us i.e. name, address, email, etc

If a customer calls his bank and tell them that they did not make a charge, they will ask us to prove that he did. We send them all of the detail that we have on the charge.

The problem is that we don?t have a signature or a PIN authorization. If we were a retail store and the customer disputed the charge, all we would have to do would be to make a copy of the sales receipt and send it off to the customer?s bank. They would compare the signature of the sales receipt to the signature that they have from when the customer first signed up with the card. If they match, they tell the customer that he can?t chargeback.

Online, we don?t have the same luxury. ?Card not in possession? chargebacks reasons are very frequent. The customer says that they didn?t have the card and somebody else typed in their info. The bank is comparing what we have sent them with the word of their customer.

However, if we have a CVV2 match on the card, then it is very hard for the customer to dispute the transaction. CVV2 cannot be stored anywhere but on the VISA/MC network and on the card. If the right code was entered, then the person with the card had made the charge. It?s hard to convince the bank that you didn?t have the card on you at the time of the purchase when the CVV2 was entered.

So why don't you do wat ifriends has been doing for the last 5 years and have them fax in their authorization or cut their account off after a week? If they have been in business this long and are still as healthy as they are maybe it would be worth looking into alternatives because when I'm not making money I'm not happy, and when I am not happy neither are you because I'm going to call and bitch about it... especially when it comes to something like this.

You mean the surfer needs to fax something or ifriends does the fax?
I've never owned a fax machine in my life, and I'd bet most people don't own a fax machine either.

Well, there might be some logistical issues there...and a lot of people have computers, but not fax machines...and having to fax a form in/recieve confirmation, might discourage some sales

but i will pass it on...

You can not continue to pay for cam shows unless you have faxed or snail mailed your signed authorization in to ifriends just as the cam girls can't perform without faxing AND snail mailing their age forms. How many members does ifriends have... 2.3 million? It doesnt seem to be much of a problem for them, I mean yes, some of the members do belly ache and complain, but they always send it in.

I cant believe you are whining so much over 100 dollars being refunded and a whole 3 dollars in bandwidth, relax

Maybe you could get on The People's Court and get some free publicity.

Better yet Judge Judy

you'd be surprised... i take at least 3-4 calls a week of that nature.

Web Girl,
You definitely need to send him a certified letter demanding payment. Don't threaten him directly just tell him to avoid further action he has ten days to remit payment. If he doenst then send a letter to Transworld explaining the charge and what it was for. Go into graphic detail. This wll go in his credit folder. Be sure and send him a copy.

He will pay.

Ok,, i thought and thought about posting it, because I really do like the guys at ccbill and they did try to help me with one guy.

Before I went to Miami for the Internext I announced on my site that I was looking for my BJ Winner of the month. Many members from Florida emailed me.

Once I arrived in Florida I left my hotel room number on my cell phone and 4 Members called to see if I would meet them. I had a lot of things planned and so I decided to meet up with one guy who was also going to hang out with us at a tattoo convention and really kewl.

When I came back from Florida I received a 13 month refund/chargeback from one Member and an email from him telling me. "I was in Florida for the Blowjob, but you didn't pick me, I am going to get you!"

CCbill split the charge back with me. I ended up with 7 refunds and 6 Chargebacks. My chargeback rate on that particular month was horrendous. My unfortunate luck he also used a Visa Card.

I have worked with CCbill on that issue ever since August. They have forwarded it into their fraud department. But they couldnt really do much for me, since this jerk called Visa direct. I am stuck.

The only advice I really received now was to mail him and sue him for the amount. Since I do know that he had access for aver 13 month.

I was in tears, I couldn't believe my eyes, I made CCbill's live hell for at least 2 hours everyday for 1 week straight. Asking them "Why Why Why could he chargeback/refund all his month of membership.

Because he can!!!

Lesson learned!

I am drafting a letter to him now, registered and I am making it a point for him to get it around Thanksgiving. He will be sued by my company for access and bandwidth.

So, I do have to give CCbill credit on helping me and calming me down when I was ready to buy a shotgun and put out this jerks light. However, I was still surprised that he was able to get HIS ENTIRE membership fee for 13 month back so easy.

Live is not fair. But watch, i will get that motherfucker. I am very patient when it comes to fuck people up.

I do have his address!!

Knock Knock. Hey how are you, is your husband here? He won a free blowjob on my website and he said it would be ok for me to come over and to give it to him.

:mad:

Can't say I've had this happen with my users...:1orglaugh

Trust me, since that day, I have fully rethought the monthly blowjob member thing...

I am no longer doing it pre scheduled.. Only on a whimp

Winner of the month of September was Hungryman ;-))

Rage34C? :winkwink:

Whenever I change a members password I set the end date to December 31st 2010, or whatever the latest date is, as I was told that allows the member to be rebilled until he cancels.

Steffie,

You give out blowjobs to your members?
Now I have heard it all.

But, is it helping with retention? ;-)

Retention rocks on it,,

however if you have some guy who is determine to get it from you, but you only do one per month.. blah blah,, you know the drill

12 members per year

more than 12 members

I have one huge Gangbang per year for my members,, but guys still rather have the one-on-one thing (with cameraman of course)

Ah you just can't make everybody happy eh?

Steffie,

I am asthonised by your dedication.

You do know that cvv2's aren't that hard to get? If you steal the credit card #s from an online store then you are most likely to get the cvv2's also. Most people who chargeback porn have had their cc # stolen from an online store where they made a purchase...since more stores now require cvv2's the more carders are getting the cvv2's when they steal their db.

Cvv2's are just as much proof as the cc # itself. If you would start to require pin # on the web then most carders would get them also and it wouldn't be much proof.

well, that pretty much settles it. this chick has 5 members or less.
you should teach ccbill a lesson and take your business elsewhere. I'm sure it would kill them.:1orglaugh

I'm not sure which, "chick" you mean as several of us have posted the same complaint so I will answer on behalf of myself and only myself... It doesnt matter if someone has 5 members or 5000 members. CCBill is out of line when they issue free memberships.

Please, give me a complete listing of your sites so I know who doesnt mind giving his content and bandwidth away for free. While you are at it, whats your longest membership? That way I can tell them how long they have before they should call CCBill for a full refund. If you only offer the one month mmbership I'll be sure to inform them its OK to call on the 28th day, does that sound about right? I'll even set up a direct link to your join page.:321GFY

As far as CCBill is concerned, I most definately did take my business elsewhere.

But if the banks made everyone who wanted to charge back and who had used a CVV2 report there card stolen then chargebacks would definatley drop as the hassle factor has just gone way up.

Noone is going to chargeback every month if it means they wait 2 weeks out of 4 for a new card.

To corvett and other billing related people - why to do not try to develop some kind of on-line signature suitable for common use??? I understand that it's not that easy, but it would solve the fake chargebacks problem almost completelly.

Regretably I can't figure out what it could be... Obvious way is to make some kind of authorisation server, where user have to register first, proove in some way that he really is who he claims to be, then get some unique digital signature. Later he will be able to use it for all on-line payments. But this is, indeed, too complicated way for most of ordinary users and most likely it won't be popular (also some privacy questions may arise).

Just a thought poped up after I saw this news:
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm...atestheadlines

Do not beat me hard :)

Thanks for the info Phx

sounds easier than having them all come down to the CCBill building and sign a form...

I will pass it on

Go to your ccbill admin and find out how many active members you have, then go to your password file add up all the users. Compare the numbers and get back to me.