Originally Posted by spanky part 2 (Post 14321033)

Because it's called go fuck yourself, not go debate yourself. If I wanted your opinion I would take a mirror and look at my asshole.

Originally Posted by CDSmith (Post 14321070)

I of course knew you were going to go all grade-school on me.

Thanks for not disappointing. :thumbsup

Originally Posted by spanky part 2 (Post 14321095)

You're from Canada. You better hope we don't want more land for the US, cuz you canucks are toast.

Originally Posted by CDSmith (Post 14321137)

As luck would have it they don't let punks such as yourself make those kinds of decisions. :D

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor (Post 14321136)

Wow this got ugly quick. It went from a discussion on taxes to a referendum on tony404's intelligence and Obama's race.

Go figure. I guess when you can't defend your position with facts or a reasonable argument the next best thing is to personally attack the person you're having the argument with or change the subject to something like race or electability.

It seems the only person still trying to have a reasonable discussion about the tax issue is pocketkangaroo.

Originally Posted by spanky part 2 (Post 14321161)

" I am from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, but nevermind all that, just slap eyes on my massive throbbing POSTCOUNT!..."

and you are calling me a punk. I'd be embarrassed with that high of a post count, get a life!!!!

Originally Posted by CDSmith (Post 14321173)

Weak, as is typical of your ilk.

I've averaged my same 13-15 posts per day since joining, period.


Next insult...

Originally Posted by MovieMaster (Post 14315551)

June 11th

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- John McCain and Barack Obama have starkly different philosophies about tax policy - how to raise the revenue needed to support government programs, spur growth and ensure economic fairness.

But voters really want to know one thing: How would the presidential candidates' views trickle down to their tax bills? A report released Wednesday by a nonpartisan policy group in Washington, D.C., takes a big first step toward answering that question.

Under both plans, all American taxpayers could pay a price for their tax cuts: a bigger deficit. The Tax Policy Center estimates that over 10 years, McCain's tax proposals could increase the national debt by as much as $4.5 trillion with interest, while Obama's could add as much as $3.3 trillion.

The reason: neither plan would raise the amount of revenue expected under current tax policy - which assumes all the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts expire by 2011. And neither plan would raise enough to cover expected government costs during those 10 years.

http://birdboard.com/taxbreakdown.jpg

Now before you come to a conclusion or judgment read the following below!




How Taxes Work

Since it is tax season....It's good to understand how taxes are paid.
Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something
like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with
the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since
you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the
cost of your daily beer by $20."Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so
the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But
what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they
divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted
that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man
would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each
man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work
out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued
to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to
compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed
to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back
when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything
at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down
and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they
discovered something important. They didn't have enough money
between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how
our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the
most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them
for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact,
they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat
friendlier. Remember they are the ones who pay your wages, create jobs, and innovate.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia


:clap:And We ask ourselves why all the jobs are leaving? We are forcing them to look elsewhere!

Originally Posted by spanky part 2 (Post 14321255)

Dude I got nothing against you. You were the one calling me out, when I was just stating the bs of people bitching about the country, but not voting.

Seriously though, how do you even have an opinion on our freedoms when you are canadian. Worry about your own country. Seems to me you guys are doing great, but it's our country that is fucked.

Another reason that I get pissed at people who don't vote, is when I think back to 2000 and GWB won florida by a few hundred votes.:mad:

Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 14320894)

Barr/Root in 08. As long as you think you only have 2 choice America will always get shit. I fmore peoel would vote 3rd party even if they have no chance in hell in getting elected maybe if enough vote the 2 parties will get it. Hell who knows if we had a 3rd party in Congress even at only 10% the other 2 parties would not have a chocie but to compromise if they wanted to get anything done.

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/home/?s=0609-continue

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 14321052)

The poor get back more than they put in, especially if they live a long life.

Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 14322180)

The poor typically don't live as long as he rich. And that poor person would be IMMENSLY beter off take the money that he is forced to pay in SS and just even sticking it into simple CDs. So yeah the poor guy is losing money if you look at it that way. And if the poor guy dies before he can collect SS his hiers lose. They get $255.



You realize were talking about PAYROLL taxes in this discussion not INCOME taxes. That's what Obama's proposal is about. PAYROLL taxes also called FICA taxes are 7.65% 6.2% of that is SS and 1.45% is medicaid tax. Everyone pay the 7.65% up until the first $102K( goes up every year ) after that people making more than $102K only pay the 1.45% that's for medicaid. Omama's proposal is that you will still not pay any additional SS tax on income between $102K and $250K. So those making $250K or less( 97% ) will pay ZERO additional dollars in SS taxes. If you make more than $250K that you wil begin paying more on income BAOVE $250K. So like in my example a person making $350K or $100K above $250K will pay $6200 more in PAYROLL taxes. 6.2% X $100K.





right now if you're under 50 you can put up to $5000 in a 401K or IRA or 15% whichever is lower. If you're poor you're not putting anywhere close to that anyways. That my beef how do they expet you to pay 7.65% in FICA taxes and then invest 15% in a 401K that's 22.65%. If you're making $8 an hour you can't afford to do that. what also sucks is the people get taxed on the 7.65% they never see. The businesses that employee them get to deduct the 7.65% they pay off thier taxes. That's double taxation in my book. anymoney paid out in FICA taxes should be deducted off your adjusted gross income. There's tax break that would apply to ALL.

And you foget with a Roth IRA you pay ZERO taxes when you take that money out.




Sure but like you said the old peole get pissed of you you propose any major changes. They let the AARP scare them into thinking they will lose out. People think the AARP is just this organzation that helps old people. No they are one of the most powerful lobbies in DC. Trust me if a presidential candidate proposed raising the retirement age( even if it's decades away ) and other changes the AARP wil protray him as some kind of Hitler. look at what the did with Buh's plan for letting younger people invest some of their SS tax. That would have had ZERO effect on anyone within 10 years of getting SS and yet the AARP convinced the old farts that they would be eating cat food soon.

As long as the old farts vote at double the rate of younger people and younger people don't demand changes in SS, the politicians are going to cater to the old farts.

Originally Posted by theking (Post 14322933)

The last time I checked the average SS recipient withdrew all that he had paid in...in approximately 3 years. This is up from the 1.5 years it used to be...when an SS recipient only lived an average of 67 years. Now the average life span is higher. That is why some people cannot draw their SS until age sixty-seven (as opposed to 65) and I think some cannot draw until age 69...but I am not sure about 69.

Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 14322180)

The poor typically don't live as long as he rich. And that poor person would be IMMENSLY beter off take the money that he is forced to pay in SS and just even sticking it into simple CDs. So yeah the poor guy is losing money if you look at it that way. And if the poor guy dies before he can collect SS his hiers lose. They get $255.

Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 14322180)

You realize were talking about PAYROLL taxes in this discussion not INCOME taxes. That's what Obama's proposal is about. PAYROLL taxes also called FICA taxes are 7.65% 6.2% of that is SS and 1.45% is medicaid tax. Everyone pay the 7.65% up until the first $102K( goes up every year ) after that people making more than $102K only pay the 1.45% that's for medicaid. Omama's proposal is that you will still not pay any additional SS tax on income between $102K and $250K. So those making $250K or less( 97% ) will pay ZERO additional dollars in SS taxes. If you make more than $250K that you wil begin paying more on income BAOVE $250K. So like in my example a person making $350K or $100K above $250K will pay $6200 more in PAYROLL taxes. 6.2% X $100K.

Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 14322180)

right now if you're under 50 you can put up to $5000 in a 401K or IRA or 15% whichever is lower. If you're poor you're not putting anywhere close to that anyways. That my beef how do they expet you to pay 7.65% in FICA taxes and then invest 15% in a 401K that's 22.65%. If you're making $8 an hour you can't afford to do that. what also sucks is the people get taxed on the 7.65% they never see. The businesses that employee them get to deduct the 7.65% they pay off thier taxes. That's double taxation in my book. anymoney paid out in FICA taxes should be deducted off your adjusted gross income. There's tax break that would apply to ALL.

And you foget with a Roth IRA you pay ZERO taxes when you take that money out.

Originally Posted by TheSenator (Post 14323664)

Listen to http://www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php especially Randi Rhodes and do your fact checking and homework. Listen for a couple of days

then go to http://www.wabcradio.com/ and listen to Rush and Hannity for a couple of days.

Compare the both....

Originally Posted by CDSmith (Post 14321772)

Okay first off I'm just trying to get you to put your angry angst kid nonsense aside for a while, and just talk. Second, I wasn't "calling you out", I merely corrected you on your somewhat skewed view of what "freedom" means, and then asked you in a calm direct manner a couple of questions about the tone of your posts. No more, no less.

Second, as you said, this IS "gofuckyourself"... which means another great thing aside from what you said... that being: you are going to get opinions (like mine) whether you want them or not. Yes, I am Canadian, but if you think for one second that we up here aren't interested in what goes on south of our border you really don't understand Canada, much less Canadian webmasters working in adult. We have a geniune stake in what goes on in the US because much of our income is derived from US companies, and sometimes (as in often) the policies initiated by your government affect our bottom line.

Aside from all that I have friends and much family strewn all through the states. Of course I have a vested interest in what happens to them. But all that aside I actually like the USA. Don't know as I'd want to live there, but I do love travelling on your interstates.

I hope this helps clear up some of that confusion that was spinning around in that head of yours.

Cheers, and have a nice rest of the weekend. :D

Originally Posted by Socks (Post 14315276)

I saw a graph of how Obama and McCain's taxes would shape up in reality, and Obama would be saving the majority of Americans almost $1000 in taxes every year, for people who make I think $20-40k or thereabouts annually.

For people who make over $2.9m annually, they would be pretty much assfucked, but I think it's the right solution to get America back on track financially.

Message to rich people: you voted republican. Now you have many trillions in debt. Who did you think was going to pay it?

Originally Posted by WhiplashDug (Post 14315675)

WHAT RECESSION??????????????? We are not in a recession!!!!!!!! geeeez!


You can say it all you want - but ECONOMISTS and ECONOMIC MEASURES have rules to follow - and the definition of a recession is TWO CONSECUTIVE QUARTERS OF NEGATIVE ECONOMIC GROWTH!!!!

Here's a hint for ya... we haven't even had one much less two - so No recession! Just because CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC and the like say it every night - still don't make it true!!!!

Originally Posted by baddog (Post 14315258)

You mean for the welfare state the democrats want to create?

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo (Post 14323526)

A guy who made over $100k for 30 years is putting in nearly $15,000 a year.

Originally Posted by KillerK (Post 14321014)

so really what you've said in this thread is you don't make shit for money. You would feel differently if you made more then 250k a year.

Originally Posted by DateDoc (Post 14588853)

In a recent conversation about tax rates and actual taxes paid (adding in sales tax and all the other taxes we have to pay) with my brother who lives in Switzerland pays about 10% less in taxes than I do and we earn about the same. He gets free health care and a lot of other stuff I do not. Higher taxes are not the answer.

We also do not need to raise the tax rate on anyone to pay off the deficit. Cut the pork out of all these BS bills Congress passes and the deficit will take care of itself. Streamline govt so it works like a business and you will see a surplus. The worst thing that happened to this country in recent years was that Ross Perot was not elected president. He would have run the country like a business and set it up so we were on a track in the right direction instead of the endless Republican?Democrat roller coaster we have today.

Whether you are Republican or Democrat or belong to some other party the best thing you can do for this country is not vote along party lines but vote for the candidate that will do the best job.

Follow these ideas and make the USA as good as it can be:

1. Vote for the best candidate and do not vote based on party affiliation.
2. Get the President the Line Item Veto - yes, the Supreme Court says it is unconstitutional but it can be added to the Constitution as an amendment.
3. Buy American. Put your hard earned money back in our economy.
4. Quit bitching about problems and do something that will help fix them.

Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 14589479)

whatever asswipe. Warren Buffet said he fne with the old upper income tax rates before Bush lower then and said the cpaital gains tax is too low. So using your logic Warren Buffet doesn't make shit for money.

By teh way at $250,000 a year my SS taxes would go up by ZERO. See it's only for incomes OVER $250,000. Say my income was $350,000 So I'd pay an extra $6200 in SS taxes. If that is going to make me or break me then I seriously need to shoot myself in the head. I suggest you start putting your money into investments and quit spending it on hookers and blow.

Originally Posted by brassmonkey (Post 14588698)

yep gas has went through the roof since 8yr bush era of terror