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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#1

State Of Industry As More Hard Time To Come

05-19-2008, 03:16 PM

We all been to the seminars, but we keep hearing the same items over and over again.
1: Free content.
2: Dollar is weak.
But where does this scenario lead us to:
1: Every company is lacking at least 20% of they monthly turnover.
2: The dollar will stay weak for at least an other year, more bad news for the industry.
3: In the next 6 months will see more companies closing down or Merging to stay on board.
4: Less fund the USA consumer have to spend on the sex industry. Less members for all of us. Meaning we all sharing the existing.
Few solutions For Now:
1: More European Traffic to be converted.
2: Billing in multi currencies, especially in Euro.

I would like to hear your feedback.

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#2

05-19-2008, 03:18 PM

You guys can fight over all this shit all you want..

Me?

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#3

05-19-2008, 03:23 PM

i agree, its very clear there are big changes happening to our industry as we speak. Interesting times we're in

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#4

05-19-2008, 03:25 PM

Big changes indeed. I wonder what affect, if any, the election will have on the short and long term future.

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#5

05-19-2008, 03:25 PM

Wow a business thread - good points Ben. Business is still good in several sectors... you just need to capitalize on oppurtunities as they come.

This furby idea sounds hot....lol

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#6

05-19-2008, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by AVNChris

Wow a business thread - good points Ben. Business is still good in several sectors... you just need to capitalize on oppurtunities as they come.

This furby idea sounds hot....lol

which sectors?
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#7

05-19-2008, 03:28 PM

My solution is to keep bringing more and more fresh women and do everything I can to keep my customers happy....

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#8

05-19-2008, 03:30 PM

All very true....Biz deals you just have to hit a bunch of singles....not many homers around...ashame but it will come down to to companies cutting staff and working smarter..

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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#9

05-19-2008, 03:31 PM

I would like to see more billing companies giving they opinions.

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#10

05-19-2008, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by tony404

which sectors?

Good question Chris

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#11

05-19-2008, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by BEN FROM HOLLAND

I would like to see more billing companies giving they opinions.

long time no see Ben

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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#12

05-19-2008, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by JFK

long time no see Ben

I'm always here mate.
Would like to hear your opinion????

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#13

05-19-2008, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by BEN FROM HOLLAND

1: More European Traffic to be converted.

From my travels to Europe and from various readings and discussions, the European market is more cell-oriented.

Over there, cybercafes are on every corner, over here, you see Starbucks. We have lots of options for broadboad right down to 56K modems and using AOL.

Porn is better suited on the laptop/TV than it is on the cell phone.

I know alot of companies are pushing for cell phone distribution for porn, but there are many technical hurdles that most don't realize.

You can get streaming TV on mobile (ie. sprint and verizon) and can watch streaming video via web browser on a phone, but the problem is that each cell tower you connect only has a limited number of channels (ie. 12). This means one person is connected at a time per channel. if you have many people in the same cell serving range, then you won't get the throughput or maybe even not being able to connect.

Cell towers all vary on how many channels they have available. The more that people buy the service, the more most won't be able to get in.

It works contrary to the "health club model".. people will use the capabilities, thus grossly overselling (like the dialup internet companies).

For the European market, if i had my crystal ball, I would say its a regression.. the DVD. Consumers could watch trailers on their phone or at a cybernet cafe and order the product.

If companies had European distribution, then could ship for a lot cheaper and faster.

I had this technology created a few years for burning CD's, but the idea can apply to DVDs.

Have a person who lives in each major city have a hard drive loaded up with DVD content. When an order comes in, they burn the order to DVD and mail it. Its shipped locally. The "burner" gets a fee, part of the s/h.

So websites that have great content, can package up on DVD, and use a global distribution method as described, to truly reach a larger audience. There are many internet/web companies who are producing DVD's as evident by the awards they are winning at AVN (ie. Lightspeed). So the crossing over is very interesting... the internet/web folks i think would have an upperhand because of internet advertising to drive DVD sales, where the video side is stuck with traditional offline distribution.

Fight the think globally, act globally!

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#14

05-19-2008, 03:55 PM

Some more solutions:
Phone & SMS billing in non credit card countries, do the same for your credit card declines, setup is pretty easy in both NATS & MPA3 to GeoIP target your billers
Translate sites into multiple languages, especially french, spanish, german, portugeese,russian is carrying a big % of the overall surfers, chineese as well.
Dont forget that porn consumers buy porn from all over the world, not just US and Europe, especially russia is growing FAST
A lot of chineese surfers consider porn a kind of art, with the right content you will do very well, especially cartoon type of porn is big in china (since hardcore is illegal)

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#15

05-19-2008, 03:59 PM

Ben you could always get into the cam business ;)

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#16

05-19-2008, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by leedsfan

Ben you could always get into the cam business ;)

there's no money in cams

Fight the there's no money in SEO!

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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#17

05-19-2008, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by leedsfan

Ben you could always get into the cam business ;)

Do you have a Job for me LOL

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#18

05-19-2008, 04:08 PM

I have a somewhat pessimistic outlook for adult which is why I'm more or less branching into mainstream. Why continue to invest into a business that doesn't have a bright outlook for several years, invest into markets that have growth potential.
WG

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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#19

05-19-2008, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

From my travels to Europe and from various readings and discussions, the European market is more cell-oriented.

Over there, cybercafes are on every corner, over here, you see Starbucks. We have lots of options for broadboad right down to 56K modems and using AOL.

Porn is better suited on the laptop/TV than it is on the cell phone.

I know alot of companies are pushing for cell phone distribution for porn, but there are many technical hurdles that most don't realize.

You can get streaming TV on mobile (ie. sprint and verizon) and can watch streaming video via web browser on a phone, but the problem is that each cell tower you connect only has a limited number of channels (ie. 12). This means one person is connected at a time per channel. if you have many people in the same cell serving range, then you won't get the throughput or maybe even not being able to connect.

Cell towers all vary on how many channels they have available. The more that people buy the service, the more most won't be able to get in.

It works contrary to the "health club model".. people will use the capabilities, thus grossly overselling (like the dialup internet companies).

For the European market, if i had my crystal ball, I would say its a regression.. the DVD. Consumers could watch trailers on their phone or at a cybernet cafe and order the product.

If companies had European distribution, then could ship for a lot cheaper and faster.

I had this technology created a few years for burning CD's, but the idea can apply to DVDs.

Have a person who lives in each major city have a hard drive loaded up with DVD content. When an order comes in, they burn the order to DVD and mail it. Its shipped locally. The "burner" gets a fee, part of the s/h.

So websites that have great content, can package up on DVD, and use a global distribution method as described, to truly reach a larger audience. There are many internet/web companies who are producing DVD's as evident by the awards they are winning at AVN (ie. Lightspeed). So the crossing over is very interesting... the internet/web folks i think would have an upperhand because of internet advertising to drive DVD sales, where the video side is stuck with traditional offline distribution.

Fight the think globally, act globally!

But keep in mind you cannot make a large turnover on the mobile right now in USA. Most of adult companies in europe they either use mobile for marketing or contact aggregators if they produce content to negotiate a deal with Telco companies. We all know they take more than 70%.

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#20

05-19-2008, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

there's no money in cams

Fight the there's no money in SEO!

How do you know LOL

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#21

05-19-2008, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by BEN FROM HOLLAND

But keep in mind you cannot make a large turnover on the mobile right now in USA. Most of adult companies in europe they either use mobile for marketing or contact aggregators if they produce content to negotiate a deal with Telco companies. We all know they take more than 70%.

US mobile adoption of porn on phones is a long way off, completely tied to the small footprint/rollout of 3G, and the cellular companies holding onto old technology (ie CDMA)

Fight the profit margins!

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#22

05-19-2008, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

US mobile adoption of porn on phones is a long way off, completely tied to the small footprint/rollout of 3G, and the cellular companies holding onto old technology (ie CDMA)

Fight the profit margins!

I can definately tell you that after seeing my cell phone bill - which was surfing my gmail and looking at one of my tgps... 2 megs of data cost me over $100. If data was included in every plan, then we'd be looking at an emerging market... until then.... don't waste your time or money on mobile if your in adult.

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#23

05-19-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by sharphead

I can definately tell you that after seeing my cell phone bill - which was surfing my gmail and looking at one of my tgps... 2 megs of data cost me over $100. If data was included in every plan, then we'd be looking at an emerging market... until then.... don't waste your time or money on mobile if your in adult.

the iphone & AT&T has certainly helped to push that in the right direction with the $99/month+ plans... but the service seems slow by many accounts.. which is limited to the technology of the network and the congestion at the cell towers.

you are paying alot. look at alltel ..for $40/month can add data plan to a phone, and can tether to laptop. Verizon has similar plans...

Fight the wizzzzzard!

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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#24

05-19-2008, 05:57 PM

Also i fell sometimes that the european webmasters are not taken seriously for some reason.

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#25

05-19-2008, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Socks

You guys can fight over all this shit all you want..

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#26

05-19-2008, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

the iphone & AT&T has certainly helped to push that in the right direction with the $99/month+ plans... but the service seems slow by many accounts.. which is limited to the technology of the network and the congestion at the cell towers.

you are paying alot. look at alltel ..for $40/month can add data plan to a phone, and can tether to laptop. Verizon has similar plans...

Fight the wizzzzzard!

Actually it was sprint who first did the 99 unlimited for all. The others followed not to lose market share.
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#27

05-19-2008, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by howard

All very true....Biz deals you just have to hit a bunch of singles....not many homers around...ashame but it will come down to to companies cutting staff and working smarter..

I agree Howard.
This is the time for imagination and drive to lead any company to the next level.

1: New Ideas regarding the existing or new content
2: New technology.

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#28

05-19-2008, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by simonsyinister

LOL
Give it a Dildo, that will be the next niche.

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#29

05-19-2008, 06:08 PM

You simply have to face the facts...

1. Large conglomerates have two choices. Cut out the fat, or merge.

They are doing the whole corporate merger now. Next will be the cuts.

2. Small to mid-market niche companies, as well as the mom n pops, are safe, and will continue making the same sales or grow as always.

They do not have the big overhead, and can more easily adjust to change. Plus focus on more targeted markets and provide a personal touch the conglomerates can't, or won't.

In this whole 'drama' of change. It's really the bigger companies who are effected more so than some others. It's easier for smaller companies to police their shit and get it removed. They are also more personal an agile.

As the saying goes, the only constant IS change..

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#30

05-19-2008, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by tony404

which sectors?

Dating, Cams, Fetish to name a few.

Ben - As a cam provider you are still doing good business - correct me if I am wrong you are looking for ways to make up the loss to free content. In the overall picture IC is still very healthy?

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#31

05-19-2008, 08:09 PM

Wassup Ben, long time no talk.

Right now the Euro is strong, the dollar is weak, quite simple.

Make use of it - earn as much as possible in Euros, spend in Dollars.

Translating to our business:

Work the profitable EU countries, translate your sites into the proper languages (by locals, there is nothing worse than a bad translation - talk about lost consumer trust) - have the right billing (direct debit mostly, talk to your billing provider or contact local billing providers in these countries - they already have it *hint*) and use GEO-IP, it's been around for so long and it's still so under-valued and under-used it's not funny anymore.

Do some testing once you think you're finished, then locate and get all the appropriate traffic you can get your hands on. (either buy, or make deals with webmasters)

Pay your labor / workers in USD and if possible earn as much in EUR and spend as much USD as you can...

Personally, I've stopped concentrating on the US porn market quite some time ago and made the switch to earn most of my income in EUR, otherwise I'd be taking a heavy hit now I guess.

If life gives you lemons... make lemonade

P.S.: DO NOT flood the EU Market with FREE CONTENT - you don't need it to sell stuff here Thanx

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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#32

05-19-2008, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by AVNChris

Dating, Cams, Fetish to name a few.

Ben - As a cam provider you are still doing good business - correct me if I am wrong you are looking for ways to make up the loss to free content. In the overall picture IC is still very healthy?

Yes i agree. IC is still very healthy and still looking for new ways to improve the technology of the cams as we always did for the 10 years.
But the problem how about copy cats of the industry, they are the same as the free content.

What do you think?????

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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#33

05-19-2008, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by JOKER | JOKEREMPIRE Inc.

Wassup Ben, long time no talk.

Right now the Euro is strong, the dollar is weak, quite simple.

Make use of it - earn as much as possible in Euros, spend in Dollars.

Translating to our business:

Work the profitable EU countries, translate your sites into the proper languages (by locals, there is nothing worse than a bad translation - talk about lost consumer trust) - have the right billing (direct debit mostly, talk to your billing provider or contact local billing providers in these countries - they already have it *hint*) and use GEO-IP, it's been around for so long and it's still so under-valued and under-used it's not funny anymore.

Do some testing once you think you're finished, then locate and get all the appropriate traffic you can get your hands on. (either buy, or make deals with webmasters)

Pay your labor / workers in USD and if possible earn as much in EUR and spend as much USD as you can...

Personally, I've stopped concentrating on the US porn market quite some time ago and made the switch to earn most of my income in EUR, otherwise I'd be taking a heavy hit now I guess.

If life gives you lemons... make lemonade

P.S.: DO NOT flood the EU Market with FREE CONTENT - you don't need it to sell stuff here Thanx

How you doing my european friend.
I agree we need to keep the FREE CONTENT away from europe. German market is very healthy and stable.

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#34

05-19-2008, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by BEN FROM HOLLAND

2: Billing in multi currencies, especially in Euro.

I've only found a few programs that offer billing in Euro's and british pounds. I'd love to see more do that! Even using revshare, you end up making as much if not more then PPS just with the initial signup. Great thread Ben!!!
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#35

05-19-2008, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by BEN FROM HOLLAND

Yes i agree. IC is still very healthy and still looking for new ways to improve the technology of the cams as we always did for the 10 years.
But the problem how about copy cats of the industry, they are the same as the free content.

What do you think?????

Copycats aren't the same as free content. Yes they are a drain from your bottom line but they are competition, two different animals.

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#36

05-19-2008, 08:51 PM

so euro is where its at

Compound interest.
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#37

05-19-2008, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by GAMEFINEST

so euro is where its at

No its a combination.

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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#38

05-19-2008, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by fatal attraction

I've only found a few programs that offer billing in Euro's and british pounds. I'd love to see more do that! Even using revshare, you end up making as much if not more then PPS just with the initial signup. Great thread Ben!!!

Thats why i would like to see what are the US billing companies views on this matter

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#39

05-20-2008, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by BEN FROM HOLLAND

I would like to see more billing companies giving they opinions.

Great thread Ben, ok, here goes:

Given that the web is the world's first truly GLOBAL medium, I believe that there are many opportunities for webmasters to make more money.

In an era of free porn in abudance, I believe that we will witness a shift to more of a pay-as-you-go business model. Less money = less access time. This will be totally content driven. In essence, the surfer is paying you for the convienience of not having to search for more of the desired content elsewhere.

Livecam sites should continue to grow, not least since the live experience cannot be replicated on a tubesite or elsewhere. Such sites can and should develop mobile 'to go' versions of their offerings so that customers can interact with models whenever and, more importantly, wherever they want.

On the subject of mobile, the US cellcos have yet to spread their legs with regard to adult content - which might account for the slow traction. Mainstream was the first to embrace mobile as a new medium. Usually it's us lot!

Personally, I believe that in an era of increasing convergence across multiple platforms, there are some wonderful opportunities ahead for owners of compelling content.

The mobile internet is roughly where its fixed-line cousin was five years ago. Build a Wapsite. Cross-promote your website. Promote your new wapsite on your website. Bid on mobile keywords in your niche. It's just like 2003 all over again!

As for optimistation here and now, if I were a content owner I would cherry pick the best processor in their respective space and offer them all (direct debit, credit/debit cards, SMS, Phone). In tandem with this, I would employ the geo-targeting technology that Joker refered to - a surfer from Poland is pleased to see anything in polish! And thankfully, the pics on tour tour really do day more than a thousand words lol

Think Europe, yes, (and ensure you get paid in Euros lol), but also think Asia. The future powerhouses of Brazil, Russia, India and China represents fantantistic opportinites for business people in the online world, not just the offline one.

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#40

05-20-2008, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by emjay

Great thread Ben, ok, here goes:

Given that the web is the world's first truly GLOBAL medium, I believe that there are many opportunities for webmasters to make more money.

In an era of free porn in abudance, I believe that we will witness a shift to more of a pay-as-you-go business model. Less money = less access time. This will be totally content driven. In essence, the surfer is paying you for the convienience of not having to search for more of the desired content elsewhere.

Livecam sites should continue to grow, not least since the live experience cannot be replicated on a tubesite or elsewhere. Such sites can and should develop mobile 'to go' versions of their offerings so that customers can interact with models whenever and, more importantly, wherever they want.

On the subject of mobile, the US cellcos have yet to spread their legs with regard to adult content - which might account for the slow traction. Mainstream was the first to embrace mobile as a new medium. Usually it's us lot!

Personally, I believe that in an era of increasing convergence across multiple platforms, there are some wonderful opportunities ahead for owners of compelling content.

The mobile internet is roughly where its fixed-line cousin was five years ago. Build a Wapsite. Cross-promote your website. Promote your new wapsite on your website. Bid on mobile keywords in your niche. It's just like 2003 all over again!

As for optimistation here and now, if I were a content owner I would cherry pick the best processor in their respective space and offer them all (direct debit, credit/debit cards, SMS, Phone). In tandem with this, I would employ the geo-targeting technology that Joker refered to - a surfer from Poland is pleased to see anything in polish! And thankfully, the pics on tour tour really do day more than a thousand words lol

Think Europe, yes, (and ensure you get paid in Euros lol), but also think Asia. The future powerhouses of Brazil, Russia, India and China represents fantantistic opportinites for business people in the online world, not just the offline one.

Good feedback

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#41

05-20-2008, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by Jimmy Rock

i agree, its very clear there are big changes happening to our industry as we speak. Interesting times we're in

very interesting
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#42

05-20-2008, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by BEN FROM HOLLAND

2: The dollar will stay weak for at least an other year, more bad news for the industry.

You are saying this is bad news for the industry overall or bad for non-US based companies?

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#43

05-20-2008, 06:54 AM

The dollar is weak but it will rise..

Compound interest.
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#44

05-20-2008, 07:53 AM

There is a lack of creativity going on too, a lot of the new sites coming out look the same. Same type of content/scenarios. For example the chicks holding a big dick with that look of shock on their face type of content.. It's getting tired. It's time to micro niche your sites with more amateur made looking content.. Just my 2 cent.

Good thread.
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INDY500DRIVER

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#45

05-20-2008, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by BEN FROM HOLLAND

We all been to the seminars, but we keep hearing the same items over and over again.
1: Free content.
2: Dollar is weak.
But where does this scenario lead us to:
1: Every company is lacking at least 20% of they monthly turnover.
2: The dollar will stay weak for at least an other year, more bad news for the industry.
3: In the next 6 months will see more companies closing down or Merging to stay on board.
4: Less fund the USA consumer have to spend on the sex industry. Less members for all of us. Meaning we all sharing the existing.
Few solutions For Now:
1: More European Traffic to be converted.
2: Billing in multi currencies, especially in Euro.

I would like to hear your feedback.

Well from a billing standpoint, we must continue to offer clients new ways to increase their profits with out raising their price points. Volume discounts and billing in multi currencies, coulped with regional billing in a multi-currency format. I.E. expand customer base by offering someone in South America or Latin America a discounted membership. Lets say we have a $29.95 per month price point in the US, well in Latin America we could still bill them in US dollars but knock down the price point to $USD 7.95 or offer a conversion to a Latin American Currency equivalent to $7.95. We can do this now, even with a language conversion for the payment page so they know what they are getting.. its a big world out here and some economies are not tapped into our market.

http://mega.co.nz
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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#46

05-20-2008, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by ADL Colin

You are saying this is bad news for the industry overall or bad for non-US based companies?

Effecting the US Market.

Ben Jelloun
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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#47

05-20-2008, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Martin

There is a lack of creativity going on too, a lot of the new sites coming out look the same. Same type of content/scenarios. For example the chicks holding a big dick with that look of shock on their face type of content.. It's getting tired. It's time to micro niche your sites with more amateur made looking content.. Just my 2 cent.

Good thread.

Are you trying less with copycat and more with new ideas.

Ben Jelloun
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BEN FROM HOLLAND

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#48

05-20-2008, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by INDY500DRIVER

Well from a billing standpoint, we must continue to offer clients new ways to increase their profits with out raising their price points. Volume discounts and billing in multi currencies, coulped with regional billing in a multi-currency format. I.E. expand customer base by offering someone in South America or Latin America a discounted membership. Lets say we have a $29.95 per month price point in the US, well in Latin America we could still bill them in US dollars but knock down the price point to $USD 7.95 or offer a conversion to a Latin American Currency equivalent to $7.95. We can do this now, even with a language conversion for the payment page so they know what they are getting.. its a big world out here and some economies are not tapped into our market.

This is very important (billing in multi currencies)

Ben Jelloun
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quesadilla

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#49

05-20-2008, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by BEN FROM HOLLAND

Yes i agree. IC is still very healthy and still looking for new ways to improve the technology of the cams as we always did for the 10 years.
But the problem how about copy cats of the industry, they are the same as the free content.

What do you think?????

you're very healthy? so no sales lost at all because the U.S. economy blows? Doubtful.

if healthy was happy there would not be this thread.
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TheDoc

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#50

05-20-2008, 08:47 AM

Some good points, but far from 'every' company is lacking at least 20% of they monthly turnover. I have a number of clients growing and a couple have reported this year, as the best year for them yet, so far.

3: In the next 6 months will see more companies closing down or Merging to stay on board.
Aye, this year again will be strong for this. But don't mistake what you 'hear' going on for actual business. I have purchased programs and sites, then turned around and sold them.

It wasn't the state of the industry that did it, just business. About 3-5 years ago most sites/programs actually started to produce decent content - which finally gave people a reason to buy them. We have less programs going 'poof' today than ever before, because they are being purchased.

The Internet changed, the people moved. Before they had Porn and 10 other things to look at that was worth a shit. Now they have 1000's of amazing things to do online and 1000's of new things coming out every year.

"OUR" surfers have simply been pulled away and anytime someone figures out how to remind those people that the 'net has porn or that X site has great porn, the traffic/sales just role in.

~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
It's all disambiguation
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