Mr Bond

You know,

The Absolute Majority of fuckin lobbiest, Lawmakers and associated people involved in the constant Gun Debateare... Are TOTALLY Missing 1 CRITICAL Point.

Criminals.... Don't Follow The Law ( isn't that why they are called Criminals?!?!? )

So, with that in mind... what makes Anyone think that a Law Against Guns is going to keep criminals from getting them???


I saw a documentary where - 1 Old Man in his 80's put the Entire Issue into 1 sentance. He was black... just a regular guy, not much education(but obviously street smart).... grew up in the bronx and was about lower middle class.

He Said:

"The Criminal... Is Always Going to Have His Gun."


BOOOOOMMMM!!!

This 1 old guy... with just 1 sentance.... Totally Devistated all these so called high brainers, college graduates, highly educated lawmakers and everyone else that thinks they know best and how to fix things.


Mr.Bond

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papill0n

thank fuck I live in country where everybody doesn't have a gun

nico-t

But lets say there are low IQ retards (and may i remind you that bush won the elections twice - so majority of voters = retards and thats alot) who can't control themselfs, but aren't criminals. But when a fight with their neighbour gets out of hand they do have a gun. And being the retards they are they might use it when they are emotional and not thinking straight, and shoot their neighbour.

When the low IQ retard first would have to drive off to some illegal gun dealer he doesnt know, in a world he doesn't know (the so called 'underworld'), he would cool off in his gun search quest that would take hours without any result, if he would even think about getting a gun in the first place when he and 99% of the country doesnt own one. He doesnt shoot his neighbour, and they live happily ever after.

When he would have a gun within reach in his short emotional flipout, he shoots, and he's a new born criminal in the police records because he shot a guy. The statistics would say he's a criminal when in essence he was just a retard with a short fuse who happened to have a gun in an emotional, seconds lasting rage. Vicious circle of criminal shoots gun complete, and another good statistic for pro gun people added saying 'he shot a guy = criminal'. Vicious circle!

Think about that! Damn I'm good! Can you feel that captain compost, can you feel that!!??

psili

A gun's not the only implementation of one's rage.
Personally, I think forking some fucker in the neck would be more satisfying than shooting them if it came to being that pissed off.

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sicone

I love my guns

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DBS.US

If you don't have a gun, your next door neighbor's kid can't break into your home, steal it, and rob somebody with it.

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Kevsh

It's not the "ongoing" gun debate, it's the "neverending" debate...

The problem between the two sides is the anti-gun side wants to get rid of guns altogether, and obviously the pro-gun side wants their right to own them.

The middle ground can never be achieved because in the United States, you cannot realistically undo what's been done. The fact that guns have been allowed for so long means there are literally millions of them, many legal, many illegal. Many in the homes of decent folk, many in the hands of criminals.

So the only possible common ground is to come up with a way to disarm the criminals entirely so the pro-gun people no longer have a reason to need a gun.

Until then, the debate is never going to end...

madfuck

bump....

Spunky

Shoot them before they do to you,ask questions later

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Tempest

Given how the US became the US, the constitution was written so that the masses could have guns in order to overthrow their corrupt government if the need ever came up... In this day and age, in order to comply with that part of the constitution, the masses should be able to own rocket launchers, tanks etc. etc. etc.. Sounds nuts, but that's the reality of it... The other reality is that the masses that want to have guns wouldn't have the balls to overthrow the government anyway so there's no reason they should have the guns.

Isn't there some supreme court case coming up that will decide once and for all whether the constitution applies to all citizens or actually applies to militias. Given way back when it was the militias that needed to be armed to over throw the british overlords, I would think it would only be them and not joe blow.

Rochard

I believe that every eighteen year old cashier and every forty year old soccer mom should be well armed with a few firearms. I think this would seriously cut down on over population issues, thus freeing up the freeways from traffic.

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BV

cars kill more people

hell, even HMO's kill more people than guns

so does alcohol

hmm so does cigarettes

hmm

Guns won our freedom.

Hmmm think about that.

Mr Bond

hahahhah hahaahhahha

Yo... take it easy...

I'm not saying go hand out guns to everyone. I totally agree on the emotionally charged situations where more people would get shot than normal - but again... I'm not saying Go And Give Everyone Free Guns.


My point was..... A Law is not going to stop people who dont give a fuck about the law - They're Criminals.


But you bring up a good point. We have a 7 day wait on hand guns ( Here in Florida anyway ) and I think that takes care of the Much Needed Cool Off Period.


What I'm saying is... don't make it illegal for people who are responsible gun owners, go to class to learn how to use them and proove proficencey in firearms use before they can have a permit. I see no problem with someone who does all the necessary steps to get a concealed weapons permit.


I'm not sure what the Stats are over in Texas... but pretty much everyone over there owns a gun. I Believe... crime is down... because theres a pretty good chance of the criminal getting his Ass Blown Off.

And if he doesn't... there's probably an even greater chance he will get executed by the state of texas. They LOVE EXECUTIONS.... I mean.... like.... the electric Chair should be their State Symbol.

They even executed a few women... The media ate it up.

Don't Mess With Texas

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Bossman

All laws are about controlling the middleclass, because its the class that is actual smart enough to be productive, but dumb enough to give over their stuff to the "state", which is just a made up abstraction created by other humans, just like religion was before the state

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SilentKnight

How's that working for you?

Paul Markham

I can see Mr Bonds point. He's saying banning guns with a law is pointless as criminals just break laws. Total clear and simple logic.

As criminals do not follow laws there is no point in having any laws at all. Or do we ask the criminals what laws they will keep so we can have some?

More clear and simple logic for a clear and simple person.

Mr Bond, we have laws so that when people break them we put them in prison so they don't do harm to the rest of us.

However the problem is not easy access to guns or number of guns owned. It's the numbers of criminals, low lifes or fuck ups

IN THE US

that own or have access to guns that's the problem. Other countries have guns and don't go around killing each other to the same degree.

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Brad

How do you refute this:

If there are no guns on the street, how are criminals going to get something that does not exist?

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bluemoney

Guns will be manufactured illegally in underground machine shops.

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GatorB

So using your logic rape should be legal since rapists don't obey rape laws and will continue to rape. Really it is so unfair that rapist can rape but I can't.

GatorB

explain the huge death and muder rate in the old west where not only did everyone have a gun everyone could SEE you had a gun. I would bet my left nut the murder rate in Dodge City is MUCH lower today than it was 125 years ago.

GatorB

Sure most most people are cowards and have small penises thus the gun is thier new penis and makes them feel powerful. I bet you find a relationship between gun ownership and the the satisfaction one has in the size of his penis.

GregE

I dunno, maybe the same way they get (and sell) recreational drugs.

There's already tens of thousands of illegal guns on the street. Passing laws won't make them vanish into thin air.

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Tom_PM

Has anyone argued that waiting lists and assault weapons bans and background checks and the like would make all guns and gun crimes vanish though?
Somewhere in the middle is where the truth lies on this one.

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Kevsh

That's an argument for 12-year-olds. Since this is an adult forum, not junior high, that isn't going to fool anyone...

Come back when you have something intelligent to add.

trevomanut

Its kinda off topic but this is true.
In my country die 3 times more people killed in car accidents than the soldiers we sent in Iraq. Well we didn't send that much guys in Iraq but still.
No less than 10 guys are killed a day in our roads.
PS I live in Bulgaria.

About the guns topic. Everybody that wants can get a gum here.
Mostly the people that live in small towns and countrysides have guns.
But thankfully there aren't that many people murdered by guns.

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BradM

Mr. Bond, you are right and one of my political science professors made us have a 2 hour debate one day about gun control.

He posted the EXACT same issue at the very end of the debate.

Criminals have no issue breaking the law. What is going to stop the people we WANT to stop owning weapons from owning them? Because we said so? They already kill people which is illegal. Who is to think they will lay down their weapons just because a piece of paper stamped with the Presidential Seal says so?

No one in 200+ seats could respond to that.

Tom_PM

Well they should have been able to respond to it very simply asking:

Why do people close and lock their doors when they leave their homes?

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Kevsh

I wish I was there, I would've had a response.

A piece of paper means nothing, but if you implement gun control it depends on how far the law goes. If, for example, the law goes to the wall and says that no one can purchase a gun, then there are no more gun stores, and no legal place to buy guns.

So yes, the black market goes nuts and illegal guns will get on the streets. But less so than if you can just walk into the local Joe's Rifle Shop and buy a small arsenal.

The second part is the misconception that only criminals actually use guns. What about Columbine and countless other times when so-called regular, law-abiding citizens kill? They did not go to some gun dealer, most often it was in the home or they bought the gun on their own with no malicious intent.

In any event, again, this whole argument is a moot point (see my first post above): Now that the US is infested with guns, really, nothing can be done about it. There is no quick fix or easy solution, nor any law. Even if a law banning guns is passed, there are millions in homes and on the streets. Until a plan to get all of them is dreamed up, there is no argument.

sniperwolf

Could be. Perhaps it is.

But then again, it doesn't just point on the satisfaction or an egotistic sort of behavior of some but there are cases that it doesn't no longer involve such but more on the need for security.

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BradM

I had a solution.


Make ammunition illegal and only allow the government to produce STANDARD rounds for their weapons.

People will argue they need weapons to hunt. Too bad, so sad. Go to Vons.

CosmicTang

1. Just because you get rid of gun stores doesn't mean you get rid of guns. As you pointed out a black market, which already exists for criminals, will grow for the rest of us. You can't walk into any story and purchase illicit drugs, but any 14 year old can get all they want quite easily.

2. Joe's Rifle Shop does background checks and licenses the firearms with the purchaser's identity and address so the authorities not only know where the gun is, but can also prevent a potentially dangerous or mentally ill person from buying one. Admittedly it's not perfect and people do slip through on occasion, but it's a control. Black market guns don't have an address registered to them.

3. The guy that typically buys at Joe's isn't going out and committing crimes. There's a waiting period for handgun purchases and in some states for all firearms. So not only are you giving anyone with an issue a cool-off period, but the gun they get at Joe's is completely traceable.

The Colombine and Va Tech massacres happened because the system failed. Those guns were not purchased legally in one case and in the other the kid was known to suffer from mental illness and should have been flagged to prevent him from buying. Not sure if the fault rested with the state for not keeping proper records or the store from selling to him. I can't remember.

The point is that for every failure the system has we go apeshit, what we don't acknowledge is how many times it actually works, which we can't accurately know.

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SykkBoy

A lot of the problem is there are already laws on the books that aren't enforced...so why bother with making new laws?

Us legitimate gun owners have jumped through many hoops to legally purchase guns and will likely continue to do so, but making more hoops and more laws that aren't even effective, muchless enforced is a waste of time and money.

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Tom_PM

Good point.

Installing a door but never closing it is kinda silly.
(I'm a simpleton and like simple metaphors, lol)

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nico-t

I wish i was there, i'd respond with my little story... if i was still awake after 2 hours in a college class.

_Richard_

sounds like guns is the least of America's problems atm

BV

add this

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I have a couple guns, and no I won't ever give them up. The day the man comes around and tells me a citizen no longer has the right to have arms, is the day they better be prepared to shoot me to take them, and they better be prepared if I start shooting back... :D

ChefJeff

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Brother Bilo

Why is it when any kind of gun debate comes up it comes back to using guns for self defense or home protection? What's wrong with liking guns just because it's fun to go shooting, and a good stress reliever too? Or shooting competitively?

Sure, if someone were breaking into my house while I was home, I would go grab my shotgun, but I wouldn't go searching through my house to find them. I would call the cops and just baracade myself in my bedroom.

I don't want to shoot anyone, I just like to shot at targets and I don't see anything wrong with that.

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ChefJeff

My sentiments exactly.

Paul Markham

Which shows how dumb that 200 were because the logical answer has been posted many times in this thread.

Laws are not there because no one will break them, they are there to punish those who do break them.

As for self protection, that's a lot of poppy cock. Look at the truth and see the stats. The odds on you protectiong yourself with a gun, in the event of a break in. Are lower than the odds on that gun being used against you by the person breaking in or a member of your family killing someone accidently with the gun owned to "protect" your family with.

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BV

You sound like the type a person that would leave your wife home alone without a firearm to protect herself if the perpetrator was beating down her bedroom door.

I've heard several 911 tapes of this happening.

DWB

This has nothing to do with taking guns away from criminals or your safety. It has everything to do with the government disarming it's people. A people unable to fight, is exactly that.

I'm pro guns. I think everything should have one for whatever reason they see fit. However, it's not up to you and me, even though it should be.