Don't confuse the policies of the US government with the people who serve.

They deserve a much better deal than they have received.

Some are the problems are the result of governmental policies and others are the problems of the individuals.

Not everyone can blame the military for being stressed out, drug/alcohol addicted or just plain crazy...it happens across the board in the population as a whole; just some vets have some additonal problems relating to their experiences in the military.

Yes, recruiters are sales people and some are good and some are not.

As with any deal, you should always read the fine print; especially, if you ass is on the line. A significant portion of enlistees wash out of their training and are surprised that they still have to finish their enlistments in another job.....surprise! You are now a cook.

Some enlistee washouts feel cheated when the real problem is their failure to apply themselves to the job at hand due to their lifetime slacker habits or they don't get it, can't get it, got injured, or changed their mind. In the military, you have to do your job, do it right the first time, and be consistent in performance. If not, people die. That is why the military is so demanding on performance and precision.

However, there is always an exception to any situation, right?

This was in 2004. My son had to take a test and make a damn good score to get in. He broke his arm when he was 15 and had a metal plate. Because of that he had to get a medical waiver from the AF Surgeon General to get in. The AF is EXTREMELY hard to get into.

If you think it's easier to get in now than when my Dad went in in 1961, you are delusional. There were YEARS AND YEARS where they would offer criminals prison or the military. Now you have get a waiver, letters of recommendation, etc. if you have a felony ANYWHERE on your record, even for the Army. I pointed this out in another thread where people were freaking out thinking we were letting in murderers when in reality it was folks that had something stupid like got in a fight when they were a kid and had zero criminal activity for years before applying and STILL had to get a waiver, letters of recommendation, etc.

Go spend the day at a recruiting office some time.

Yep I do.
They should and deserve the highest respect yet unfortunatly when they come home the governments who send them there forget who they are.
My father servered in a few wars and I can tell you it ain't easy on either the family or the Soldiers.
To bad the governments treat them the way they do.

Horseshit. My friend who got in trouble when he was 19 (about 10 years ago) was given option of 3 years in jail or joining Marines.
I can’t even imagine whats going on right now.

Fuckin' A...

I served six years in the Navy. Some great times and some shitty times, but that's the way it goes. I never served in combat, but saw friends die nonetheless.

Sure there are some dirtbags in the military, but there are some real heroes as well:

Never forget them...

http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/left...at_tillman.gif

ADG

So when Vendzilla said "things in the military have changed, I've seen a lot of changes talking to my daughter"
Are you saying he is delusional ?

What a fucking crock of bullshit.

I wasn't promised a signing bonus, college was the furthest thing from my mind when I signed up, and my four years wasn't a waste.

My best friend is former US Army; He serviced the nuclear tipped missile trucks in Germany during the late 1980s. He started to complain of constant headaches and then one day just failed to wake up. Turns out he had a condition called "water on the brain" which they believe might have been caused by radiation. He was operated on, given a shunt (a tube that drains water from his brain to his urinary track), and was medically discharged. He got a job at the post office, but after a few years his medical condition returned and he was unable to kept a steady job because of time missed from work. Since I've met him in 1990 he's had fourteen brain surgeries. All of his medical care was paid for by the VA, and he's a 100% disabled Vet.

I compare the medical benefits he gets from the VA for free for the rest of his life compared to what I'm paying $500/ month for at Kaiser and I don't see much of a difference.

I'm not saying the VA doesn't have it's share of problems; Any organization the size of the VA is bound to have problems. The cases you've seen on the news where things are bad doesn't take into account the millions of VETS who have never had some problems.

As for your stats that say 1/4 of all homeless people are VETS..... I also believe that 1/4 of Congress are US VETS also.

Until recently their standards were quite high...but they do have...and have had...four tiers of enlistment requirements. When warm bodies are needed they reduce requirements to the fourth tier...but there is nothing new about that. All officers have degrees and many have masters and some have doctorates. Most senior NCO's have Associate Degrees...many have Bachelor Degrees...and some have graduate degrees. Until recently lower level personel were required to have Highschool Diplomas. Now GED's and less are acceptable...and some criminal convictions and medical conditions are being wavied...but during and since the 2nd World War this has been the case when warm bodies are needed.

No, no, it's all NEW now. :1orglaugh Hell, there are issues with getting homeschoolers in. You know, those idiots who win the spelling and geography bees and are generally smarter than the average public school graduate. I THINK some of the branches are letting in small number now, but it's a VERY small number.

If someone was offered jail or the marines recently, then the courts were willing to drop the charge and the marines wouldn't have known about it as it would not have shown as an active felony on any records. In addition, the person who made that offer broke the law. But hey, let's blame it on the military who ended up with someone lying on their application and if they required any kind of security clearance and even Great Aunt Ethel mentioned anything about a possible jail sentence, the Marines would have done what they could have to tracked the info down and probably toss the guy out on his ass.

I have no idea was Vend was talking about - I'd have to hear it from him before I came right out and said he was delusional :winkwink: But I can guarantee you something from Ven's mouth will always have more power with me than something from the mouth of those who only know about the military what they read and watch on TV playing armchair military members.

here Ill make it easy for you :
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...2&postcount=30

Yes, because most people who enlist truly believe that they are doing the right thing and have no idea what they're getting into.

My cousin has served almost 20 yrs, he has been to iraq twice and is now a recruiter. He is a very honorable man and takes so much pride in his service. I admire him alot.

Well you certainly didn't make it easier for ME. I couldn't tell if he was saying there were less or more assholes in the Navy now than there were when he was in. But for shits and grins, let's say he's saying there are more in there now.

So what? There are assholes in every single business including adult.

I ran into one who was a former teacher the other day and he taught for decades at a prestigious private school and has many degrees. So maybe he shouldn't have been allowed to have that job because he was an asshole?

There are also lazy, ignorant, stubborn, stupid people in every single sector of the world you can possibly think of. Who cares. I still do and will always pay my respect to someone in the military. If you don't want to, that's your right. The right that someone in the military fought for, BTW.

You make good points and as I think about it your right. It doesnt matter if their assholes they are serving for all of us.

Ah, Tony - you're agreeing with me so I get a Mother's Day gift :)

(thanks ;) )

Good job Peaches:thumbsup

And then you remember how he died.. And what his family went through to find out.. God bless America.

Party with Arty beatches! 0861 Artillery Scout (FO) Observer... USMC

Happy Mothers Day and Peaches I might argue with you but I have always admired you.

It used to be free college tuition. Now I have no idea what motivates people to go and fight in Iraq. “defending out freedom in Iraq” shit ain’t working for me.

Oh no they don’t… Nazis didn’t serve for Germans.. Communist didn’t kill for Russians.
They served nutcase in power.. Don’t speak for "all of us".

turned out to be a good thread

What you say is in part true - Pat Tillman was killed by fraticide ("Friendly Fire"), and while it is absolutely deplorable and disgraceful how some in the military and the Bush Administration at first tried to make Pat out to be a martyr killed by enemy fire (even though they knew otherwise), and then covered up the true cause of his death, that does not diminish his personal patriotism and ultimate sacrifice.

Many aspects of our current military are deplorable - the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, and other atrocities, are not to be condoned or sanctioned. Unfortunately, many in the top leadership roles within government and the military have lost sight of morality and act as if they are above the law, or that they must absolve themselves rather than accept accountability for what their policies have wrought.

Personally, I feel several people within the Bush Adminstration have put this country at great peril, and let the people of this country and the soldiers on the front lines down, in their quest to serve certain corporate interests (primarily the oil industry), and war profiteers (Haliburton, Blackwater, et al).

Regardless of all that, I feel that most who volunteer and serve in the military do so (as many of their counterparts do), with the purest of motives, and wish to serve honorably. That is what I implore people to not lose sight of, despite whatever agenda or political leanings that they might have.

ADG

Idealism is what precedes experience and knowledge....

I wouldn't expect the audience here to realize having a strong military is necessary to protect the lifestyles we all enjoy that much of the world does not. Anyone in the military can at any time find themselves with their lives on the line. I very much respect that they are willing to do that job in order for me to have the freedoms we enjoy.

Ever since 9/11, I'll quietly pick up the tab of someone in uniform if I notice them while I'm eating. No big show about it, just quietly ask the waitress to put their check on my tab and when they ask about it tell them it was taken care of by a customer who appreciate their service to their country. I had a lot of admiration for the military and family who have served before, but 9/11 really changed perspective for me.

Another thing I've started doing of late, if I have unused guest slots available when I go into the Crown Room at the airport, I'll look for someone in uniform stuck waiting with the masses and invite him to come in as my guest. Grabbed one two weeks ago who had just started a 5 hour layover, I think I made his week.

Of course they get respect. One thing I hated tho, not sure why but this really pissed me off... was when I was in Florida at Sea World on vacation and they show you a video of the military in action or something, really nice video and they get a nice round of applause. Then they make military personnel stand up to receive more applause.

I applauded them of course, I was a guest in America so why wouldn't I? But as my friend and I were applauding he turned round and asked me a question to which I replied, and this busy old bastard gave me attitude coz I spoke during the applause. Can't remember exactly what he said but I just ignored him. Think he said something like "show respect for our heroes" or something. I thought I was by applauding and sitting listening to all this on my vacation. Well anyway that pissed me off slightly...

I will give respect to all in general that are also respectful people. Being in the Army doesn't automatically qualify you to get respect. There are as many pricks in the army as there are who are not in the army.

Military personal---Government two different things, don't confuse them

My daughter went in just over a year and a half ago
She scored a 88 on the asvab test, 50 is average
They've trained her in Advanced Electronics calibration, She will not have a problem getting a good paying job when she gets out, she'll get to see the world, when she gets out, the Government is going to pay for her college.
She had to loose weight to get in, she did, they have to do pt to keep that weight off. They have classes all the time in how to behave in the public or in a diferent land, we never had that.

For those that have served, it changes you, you'll never see that kind of team work again, you'll probably never make friends like that again. It can carry with you for the rest of your life in everything you do. Thats one thing I hope never changes about the military.

Even when you get out, you find that the better friends that you have , they've been in the military. Because they understand!

They can still get college, my daughter is doing that

Nah, my respect is only reserved to the veterans of flame wars, arm chair generals, and porn slingers!!

First of all, I think we need to go over the reasons why the typical new recruit joins up. Feel free to add to the list.


- To protect the country. This is probably a tiny percent, just a fairy tale... Even though the media will have you believe it represents 100%.

- Teens who are railroaded into joining by their military families.

- Young people looking for college money. Did they explore all of their financial aide, grant and student loan options first?

- Psychos who want to live out their fantasy of being Rambo, and be able to say that they served and are thus a real man.

- People who don't have anything going for them, and hope that the military leads them somewhere.

- People who don't have anything going for them, and don't really care where the military leads them. They "just need something to do" for awhile.


What did I miss?

Damn right I do!

It's always the poor kids on the front lines. Our Canadian boys losing their lives in Afghanistan are usually from Quebec.

I had a hard time when my son became a cadet there. When he became seargent it was one of the proudest moments of my life.

Having said that, I will always be anti war, anti corporate and anti propoganda.

Accet to say Guerilla Traffic is killing it with our new FREE TRIALS and you can too!

Hit me up patriots...

Hey Vendzilla, great post my friend. May luck be hers...

I have many friends that have served in both Desert Storm and Iraq. I currently have 3 friends who are over there now, one who had the option to retire and volunteered to go back for his third time.
No matter how I feel how the government, the war, or the policies of the armed forces I give the upmost respect to my friends and to anyone that is willing to risk their lives to protect our country. I dont care if they signed up for college tuition, boredom or a to feel manly. Bottom line is they willingly put themselves in a position where they can end up in a war zone and I respect them for that.

We have given out free memberships to active duty guys before.. We respect that they volunteer to devote the life to the country (no matter what reason got them there). We would rather they all be home now.

My hubby would know first hand he was in the army for 10 years. And recently my brother-in-law spent a year during ammo supply in Kuwait. They go our of their way to say thanks to people they see in the service.

For most kids, as they come up on senior year they have some important decisions to make - what they'll do directly after high school. Some go to college, some go directly into the work force, and some join the military.

Your thinking of the military as a last resort, when nothing could be further from the truth. Most VETs go into the military, get a great education while they are there with practical experience, and then can go to college when they get out of the military.

IIRC, if they attend college (even online) while they are serving, it doesn't use up any of the MGIB. I know the base in Misawa (which had every service on it) had several American colleges on base that offered classes.

I served 5 years in the USAF from 1988-1993. I was a military policeman and on the tactical EST(SWAT) team. I was involved in two combat conflicts. Never got to shoot at anyone though. Mad props and respect to the men and women fighting a war that we can't win, for reasons it should have never happened.

ding ding ding.

The PEOPLE who enlist are serving the better interests of the people of their country. They are going into this thinking they are going to be helping protect freedoms and save lives.

The people in power use them as meat shields and puppets - but that isn't their fault.

Minorities, green card warriors, military family traditionists.... it doesn't matter who it is. The individuals deserve respect because what they signed up for is a whole lot of fucking ass.

She's already doing that, we found out about that program before she went in. She had a year of college done by the time she went in. She'll have at least a year and half more done by the time she gets out, said something about studing medicine, we'll see!