Wrong...there never was a singular reason...but there were multiple reasons...with strategic positioning being the primary reason.

They have never been allies...they were and are trading partners just as they were with Iraq.

we should work hard to get totally off oil and if they want to blow each other up have a party/

China has admitted that they are not a military match...but went on to say that they intend to change that and in twenty or more years they may be a match...providing that the US becomes stagnant...which I doubt we will.

Then I guess we were lied to by corrupt poloticians who told us is was about WMD and Freeing the Iraqui people, two things they don't give a shit about.

thts some bullshit

Wrong yet again. Those were also two reasons...among multiple reasons.

Sure there were...

Personally, I'm really looking forward to the upcoming Persian/Zionist war. The two most despicable nations on Earth will wipe each other off the map.

What "Allies" does Iran have that Iraq and Afghanistan didn't have? Is the entire Middle East going to be upset with us? Again?

Yeah, the ass kicking was immediate. In both cases in under two months their goverments fell apart and disappeared. Seems to me the Taliban is longer the government in Afghanistan and Saddam no longer rules Iraq.

Are we in complete control of either country? Nope. Chances are we never will be. Then again, it seems to me that in the Middle East their goverments really aren't in control of much and have vast areas were war lords with their own troops control entire regions.

I remember in the days leading up to the invasion of Iraq they were talking about tens of thousands of US dead, but instead never before have so many men (and women) invaded a country on the scale we did we Iraq and walked away with the amount of dead US servicemen (and women).

China would be an entirely different thing.

Japan attacked us during WWII because of oil. I think China is going to come after us for the same reason when oil starts drying up in the Middle East.

The sad thing is China owes so much of our debt, they wont need a army for our downfall.

Japan attacked the USA in 1941 because the USA was a competing colonial interest.

Japan had her colonies in China and Southeast Asia, the USA had her colonies in Hawaii and the Phillippines.

:2 cents:

China will not present a military problem for us for decades. Currently they do not have the capability to project military power globally.

Japan attacked us because we issued an ultimatum to them...cease their military activity in China and other countries or we would set up a Naval blockade...they being an island nation with virtually zero resources (including oil) had to decide to comply or attack...they chose to attack. They knew that they could not defeat us but thought they could buy enough time to consolidate themselves within the other countries that they had invaded...and then would sue for peace...they miscalulated.

China does not have to fire one shot to bring down the US. All China needs to do is dump the dollar and call in our debt. Nuke the dollar and our empire falls hard and fast.

Wrong...debt to the Chinese is not of that great of consequence...but even if you were right...you surely do not think that the US would allow itself to "fall hard and fast"...now do you?

In addition what makes you think that the Chinese would dump the dollar...I think they are far more financially astute than you appear to be.

You are right China only owes about $400 million in debt. Its not so much the number, but the fact that the dollar is not backed by anything but perception. If someone like China drops the dollar and calls the debt the illusion of the dollar fails. Hard to go to war when you can not buy the oil for it because your dollar can not buy anything.

I meant 400 BILLION :error

To put it simply...you need to educate yourself about US economics and global economics...as you do not have an understanding of either.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Don't waste your time with political debates here. I remember a survey where 70%+ of the people here believe 9-11 was inside job. Do you think you can have reasonable discussion with folks like that?

I pretty must stopped debating here when a stupid Canadian who has posted in this thread kept lecturing us on how the U.S. Army used "chemical weapons" i.e. , white phosphorous munitions in Iraq on innocent civilians. This guy basically regurgitates propaganda from other clueless, left-wing, anti-american, anti-military websites. He experience is limited to what he can google, yet he lectures an ex U.S. Army Infantry Officer who has been trained on WP ordnance, seen it, smelled it, and knows what U.S. military doctrine is in terms of deployment. This person can barely waddle his fat ass away from his keyboard and computer yet debates people with real world experience and training.

As for another expert's dumb comments., I can tell you that Israel is a major arms dealer and does develop advanced weaponry. They ofter take American weapons sold to them, and modify them to make them even more effective. Anyone who has actually talked to folks in the Israeli military would know that.......

In short Isradude, I wouldn't waste much time in "debates" here.

And even when its too late and we've been hit again, you'll hear them blaming Bush or the Israelis and not the people responsible.

So if China drops the dollar nothing will happen to the US? Or are you saying because China is selling us its trash that it wont drop the dollar? Looks like they are starting to look for pricing in other currencies already:

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/9...4/6387782.html
http://english.gov.cn/2008-04/07/content_938427.htm

there's always two sides to a story

i gotta agree with isradude...no matter what u do with iran and egypt etc..they will kill u based on ideology..these are islamic states...they dont care about u unless your an islamic state too

its eextreme racism where the consequence is death

you need to learn how to quote properly :winkwink:

what does a shrink have anything to do with the questions you cant answer ? seems to me you need to learn a thing or 2 :2 cents:

For starters , a shrink isn't going to answer the questions for you , you have to use your own brain to do that.

maybe you have a hard time understanding what you read. nowhere did anyone dispute what you just said, NOBODY,

What isradude said was THE MAJORITY of american advanced weapons were designed by israel. you either agree or disagree, but you cant change the question entirely and then say my answer was wrong.

but feel free to prove me wrong and show me ANY stat that says the MAJORITY of american advanced weapons were obtained from israel.

So what you are saying is the usa army doesnt use white phosphorous as a weapon in iraq ?

In defense of Kandah (without knowing anything else) that's kinda like calling someone who wants the neocons gone "racist".
Zionism isn't synonymous with being Jewish. Zionism is jewish nationalism.
Like any people of one faith, there are varying political beliefs (and races) within it.
Thats not to say people can't additionally be racist, or more specifically, anti-jewish/anti semetic, but you can't simply reply that someone is racist for not minding seeing zionism gone... just anti-zionist.
For example tell Neturei Karta or Satmar adherents they are racist. They're ultra conservative jews who oppose zionism because it's a political movement which was secular in their eyes.

"A 2004 poll found only 17 percent of American Jews call themselves "Zionist." "

Zionism's bleak present:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...icle%2FPrinter

just fyi. Don't want to see someone called racist for no reason.

Pretty sure Israel could handle that on it's own.

There's a reason why these debates go on and on, never end and are never resolved. Even if people have the exact same facts they will differ - in political matters - on how to interpret them. Neither side is right or wrong. People have different biases that color those events. For the large part most people divide themselves into "pro-Israel" and "anti-Israel" for any number of reasons. Then when they look at an event like the '67 war and how it started they decide who "started" it based on that allegiance.

Same event, same facts. Different interpretation.

I think it is you who doesn't get it. Yes the art of war has changed, except you fail to see that obviously, not them. You didn't control Iraq or Afghanistan after a month, you are still fighting to control both of them. Granted you may have done a better job in Afghanistan than the Soviets, but than again you didn't have a superpower supplying weapons to the Taliban this time.

The problem is you think you won, just because the previous Government is no longer in power, but the fact is this is an idealogical battle, remember a 'war against terror' one that the US is loosing in the ME. Every day you are more and more hated because of your 'ally' Israel and your own actions in the region. The true victory will come when radical Islam ceases to be a political or ideological force, and unfortunately that is far from happening.

Iran particularly (being Shia) has a large base of moderate/non-religious youth who have the potential to change their country given the right support - or perhaps even without it. But you drop a bomb on their nation, or send your troops in another pre-emptive war you will only help to radicalize that same youth that has a potential to force change. There is a legitimate fear over Iran's nuclear program, but if you realistically want to fight 'terror' as you claim perhaps you should reconsider your unconditional support for Israel. As crazy as they may seem, Iran's leadership doesn't want their nation destroyed. Want they want is for Israel and your own actions to be reigned in in their region.

I am a great supporter of Western values, and by no means a bleeding heart. I advocate preventing a Muslim numerical takeover of Europe, etc. But the fact is you can't win this idealogical battle with bombs this time around. We need to hold on to our own beliefs, our own societies (i.e. prevent a take over) and advocate, spread and surround their ideology and nations with successful, economically prosperous and peaceful examples to their people. Believe me the radicals are crossing their fingers that you bomb them.

The minute you leave Iraq the very same democracy you installed will help put the radicals in power, that is guaranteed - you haven't achieved anything.

If Iran wanted to be an ass they could take on our military. Iran isn't like Iraq...

Iraq had the fourth largest military in the world in the 90s. You couldn't occupy Iran, particularly at the same time as Iraq, and attacking them could completely fuck the world economy with oil prices, but realistically whatever people claim the US would walk right over their military. in 2005 Iran spent 6 billion on their military, the US spends something like 600 billion. They can't compete.

Now I see why Iran is such a threat .... :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Not All Wars, no you didn't.

Do you not care what you are doing to the Palestenian people also? Do you not care to know what Israel has done to the world since its creation over occupied land? Why do you always have the need to show people that you are saints being attacked by wolves? You aren't any better!

I can post a few links to many articles that are easily searchable on the internet where Israel has threatened many other countries, and not as a reply to any threats coming its way.

Iranians are governed by a bunch of fuckers and that's not debatable, but don't try to make Israel look like a poor little Angel. It ain't, plus it is the only country with WMD's in the region, maybe the US should invade it. Oh wait, the Jewish Lobby in the US wouldn't agree. :2 cents:

Hmm...they fought Iraq for 8 years and could not defeat them...we defeated Iraq's military the first time around in 100 hours of ground war... the second time around we defeated Iraq's military...overthrew their government and occupied the country in 24 days. There is not a military on the earth that can take on the US military.

Hummmmm so I guess you are saying that if Iran destroyed Israel as Kandah is hoping, that only Zionists (as you define) would be killed and the the good house Jews (who reject Zionism) would be spared somehow? :1orglaugh

It is always interesting to see the Orwellian contortions that people will use to justify their desire to see the Jews driven into the sea. Of course it is not anti-Jewish to want to see the Jews detroyed.... it is only anti-Zionism. :error I guess I should be happy that modern day anti-Semites feel the need to use euphemisms like "Zionist" when talking about their genocidal fantasies instead of like in the old days when they were more open with their feelings. I guess that is a small measure of progress. :Oh crap

George W. will invade Iran before he leaves office!