ibill and the Bahamas - GoFuckYourself.com

Shap · 10-07-2002, 11:35 AM

We spent this past weekend reading the boards and worried about the new visa regulations. We are located in the bahamas and we were concerned these new regulations would make things real tough for us.

Today I emailed our ibill rep, within 2 minutes of my email she called and informed me we had nothing to worry about. Ibill had a Visa Merchant in our region. Not only that but ibill has 5 of the 7 regions covered.

I've been one of the first to bitch at ibill over the past year. I have to admit that this time ibill has pulled thru big time and is well prepared to help their clients.

Brown Bear · 10-07-2002, 11:38 AM

Yeah, some other people have posted that IBill reps told them the same thing. Looks like IBill is finally doing something right.

Now what about the other processors?

Shoplifter · 10-07-2002, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shap

Today I emailed our ibill rep, within 2 minutes of my email she called and informed me we had nothing to worry about. Ibill had a Visa Merchant in our region. Not only that but ibill has 5 of the 7 regions covered.

The ones not covered are Australia and Canada I assume?

I would like to hear from Ibill if it is true that Canadian webmasters can be processed via Europe like Verotel is saying, and if this is what Ibill will do for Canadians.

Brown Bear · 10-07-2002, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shoplifter

The ones not covered are Australia and Canada I assume?

I would like to hear from Ibill if it is true that Canadian webmasters can be processed via Europe like Verotel is saying, and if this is what Ibill will do for Canadians.

IBill has been saying that Australia is going to be covered. Call them and get details.

Shap · 10-07-2002, 12:23 PM

I think the other processors are scrambling for an answer (which isn't a good sign). I think ibill's size and their affiliation with their parent company intercept are coming in to play BIG TIME!

We did ask about canadian webmasters. Right now there is no solution for them. According to ibill the only option is to open a company in the US and provide that info to ibill. You can continue to be paid to your canadian company (so i'm guessing there is no double taxes to worry about).

All you canadian guys should open up down here in the bahamas TAX FREE BABY!

Rochard · 10-07-2002, 12:27 PM

IBill still owes me money from 900 sales. As soon as they pay up I'll stop complaining.

Brown Bear · 10-07-2002, 12:34 PM

are porn companies allowed in the Bahamas?

Jon · 10-07-2002, 12:36 PM

everything is allowed in the islands..

Brown Bear · 10-07-2002, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NiteChatDotTV
everything is allowed in the islands..

are you sure? there are offshore countries that don't allow adult pornography companies (although I don't know how they would find out)

Shap · 10-07-2002, 12:49 PM

Don't ask don't tell mentality

The bahamas is an independant country. The other islands are under British rule and that's why there have been a few horror stories. Further more there is no need to say what you do. There are no taxes and no forms to fill out. You run your company, put your cash in the bank and nobody asks questions. If you want any more info drop me at line shap at iwca . com.

TheFLY · 10-07-2002, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shap
Don't ask don't tell mentality

The bahamas is an independant country. The other islands are under British rule and that's why there have been a few horror stories. Further more there is no need to say what you do. There are no taxes and no forms to fill out. You run your company, put your cash in the bank and nobody asks questions. If you want any more info drop me at line shap at iwca . com.

You are my hero man. I will try to take a vacation down there ;)

andi_germany · 10-07-2002, 01:39 PM

Thats good news for the IBC's. Most of my rebills are with IBill and I am located in the Turks and Caicos Islands.

Starting a company on the islands is easy as hell and has many great benefits.

0% Taxes
Protected from obsenity regulations
Turks and Caicos Islands will not honor any foreign law suit

Startup cost $1500 - 2000. Yearly cost $1200 which includes Mail forwarding and the corporate fee.

I used this book and the author is a lawer located in Canada.

Tax Heaven Guide Book by Ken Finkelstein

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...lance&n=507846

Nautilus · 10-07-2002, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Not only that but ibill has 5 of the 7 regions covered.

Looks like iBill is finally doing something for it's clients.

Now what about CCBill and Epoch and all their blood swears it is impossible for US company to process for foreing clients?

Bear · 10-07-2002, 02:18 PM

Hi andi_germany,

Could you further explain what do you mean by "Turks and Caicos Islands will not honor any foreign law suit"? Is it means even if a foreign country suit your company at Turks and Caicos Islands, the court at Turks and Caicos Islands will not accept this law suit?

Does Turks and Caicos Islands allow you to operate porn business?

Max

Theo · 10-08-2002, 12:40 AM

shap, that's some interesting news, hopefully they'll give a solution to many webmasters.

Btw, i know you are friends with Manny, have you seen him lately? I haven't talked to him for long time. Give him my greetings :-)

Webby · 10-08-2002, 12:57 AM

Bear:

The "islands" have no problems with porn laws and such .. also, as a rule, they will not accept any law suits which involve offenses which are not offenses within their legal system.

Neato!

Webby · 10-08-2002, 12:59 AM

andi_germany:

You actually living there?? If so, me gotta meet up some time! *g*... I am only 30 min flight from ya!

Bear · 10-08-2002, 01:06 AM

Hi Webby,

Thanks. It's great to hear that.

But I also heard some islands don't welcome porn. Would point me which island welcome porn? I mean even hardcore and sm things. Do you know any website that can help you to incorpate there?

Brown Bear · 10-08-2002, 01:07 AM

www.ocra.com

Webby · 10-08-2002, 01:13 AM

Buy the way, Bahama's is not included in my "island list" - this is the exception.

Most (shit all).. other islands have no porn laws, wot for? :-) The legal system is generally based on English Common Law. There are no taxes (apart from stuff like clothes blah which is included in import tax when you buy anything) ... the legal fees are nominal and the weather, beaches and drinks kinda nice! *lol*

There is also a difference in island which are "UK Dominion Territories" - they do not have the same "security" as those outside this category. So choose carefully!

Bear · 10-08-2002, 01:14 AM

Hi Brown Bear,

Did you try that? Is it good?

Webby · 10-08-2002, 01:21 AM

Hi Bear!

Na.. don't use em websites... many years ago I struggled hard and travelled the globe for advice from "experts" - in the end, we wondered wot for *g*

If you are interested, I can probably put you in touch direct with some lawyers on the islands who will set this stuff up and be your "directors". They give ya an unlimited authorisation to act on behalf of your company and do as you wish... You may then open up bank accounts in any jurisdiction you see fit and you only have total control over this. But, they also act as your "front end" and deal with any shit.. they are bound by law not to disclose any names/details of they get chucked in the clink. So far, been offshore for five years and only met good guys.

There are some bits that may be relevant to your "status" at the moment regarding .. wots the word?? Tax? *g*... Depends where you are currently resident.

Webby · 10-08-2002, 01:23 AM

Bear

Wot island's have you heard of that as a problem?? Never come across this so far?

Bear · 10-08-2002, 01:32 AM

Hi Weddy,

Could you contact me on ICQ 167577753

Brown Bear · 10-08-2002, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bear
Hi Brown Bear,

Did you try that? Is it good?

yes, I recommend dealing with www.ocra.com

I have had a very proffesional and knowledgeable experience with them.

Webby · 10-08-2002, 01:36 AM

Be right there!

SandraWang · 10-08-2002, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
www.ocra.com

Thanks for the tip Brown Bear! I am located in Norway, and I am getting out of time to get incorperated in the US, in order to keep my rebills at CCBill. I see some of you here were talking of Bahamas, but is this island considered as US? Are there any of the islands listed on ocra.com that will qualify me for the VISA rule regarding "having to be incorperated in the US, with a US tax code"?

Or do I simply just choose a shell company in Florida for example? Anyone have any experience of this? All I want to do, is save my rebills... GAH!

Any tips would be highly appreciated!

andi_germany · 10-08-2002, 03:15 AM

I lived in the Bahamas for a while but I went back to Europe because I was bored out of my scull.

Anyway you cannot live in the country (island) you corporated in. Its simply not allowed.

They don't honor foreign law suits. Meaning some guy sues your company for some shit in the US because the US is the only country a law suit makes you money. The TCI will not recognize that law suit and your money is protected.

As to if porn is allowed or not. You found a company using a lawyer. Noone asks you what the hell you are planning to do and noone asks who the hell you are. The company is opened by a lawyer in that company who will own all shares. Than those shares are written over to you and now the sweet thing comes in to play: This change of ownership to you is not recorded by anyone, your name is not on the records. So basically noone knows who is operating that company and noone is interested in what that company is making money with.

If you live in the US you would still have to pay taxes but it is very hard to catch you if you don't pay them and you are not dumb as hell.

The book I mentioned above describes all that in easy terms.

andi_germany · 10-08-2002, 03:20 AM

Another nice one is this hosting company:

http://www.havenco.com/

Its loated in Sealand. The history of Sealand is kind of funny but if you host there noone will be able to close your content down for any obsenity.

Copyright is non existant there

Only thing forbidden is childporn.

Its expensive as hell but it's still a good option if you can't host in the US legally.

P.S follow the Sealand History link and read up on it. Kind of cool

Webby · 10-08-2002, 04:29 AM

Something.... Turks is a "UK Dominion" and Bahamas has already "caved in" to external pressures... so, I know it may only cost a few thousand, but if you are considering "offshore" you might as well start off having it in a secure jurisdiction.

Webby · 10-08-2002, 04:46 AM

Something else... there is such a thing as offshore hosting... some places it is expensive.. others cheaper... but tis still an option....

Webby · 10-08-2002, 05:39 AM

*Anyway you cannot live in the country (island) you corporated in. Its simply not allowed. *

Andy.. tis ain't quite right... You speaking of some ruling on Bahama's only?

There is no problem living on an island where you incorporate... that is not related to "residency". In fact, it is often an advantage in that you may then be a corp employee and be provided with a work permit... which in turn.. over a few years, allows you an extra passport :-) Been there.. done that!

markusborger · 10-08-2002, 06:02 AM

hehehe....

Still discussing about those US Billing scammers...

After CCBILL used the VISA US non-beast processing rules to rip us hundreds fo thousands of dollars by killing our rebills and keeping our holdbacks for an unspecified amount of time and after IBILL having done the same.....

We swiched to non US billers (like DiBill) a long time ago...

Those silly US questions about those new VISA US RULES don´t happen here in EUROPE....

From our perspective things in US will be worse & worse in the comming times as they need to fix new burocratique ways to compensate themself for the money they are loosing because of the webmasters that are leaving them...

mates.... it´s time to change to the serious and trustfull guys:

http://www.dibill.com/tools/affreg.cgi?wid=640

Webby · 10-08-2002, 06:08 AM

markusborger:

You being smug there??? *g* Yea, gotta agree with ya!
Almost any Euro or offshore processor is preferable to *any* conditions in the US now. I am sure the US companies are well aware of this and will re-emerge in another form or establish offshore or other banking relationships... they can't afford not to!!

TheFLY · 10-10-2002, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by andi_germany
Another nice one is this hosting company:

http://www.havenco.com/

Its loated in Sealand. The history of Sealand is kind of funny but if you host there noone will be able to close your content down for any obsenity.

Yeah that's the abandon oil rig off the UK that got converted into a "island", right? LOL. I read they have armed soldiers guarding the thing. Plus the servers are sealed in a room without oxygen for security! It's the kind of shit you would read in Isaac Asimov.

TDF · 10-10-2002, 03:17 AM

Bahamas is nice but Belize is where it is!

Webby · 10-10-2002, 03:37 AM

TheFLY: *g*

Yea that's that old oil rig! ;-) As long as they behave, the UK govt don't give a damn.. but if there was a problem, that "offshore" *g* would be boarded pretty quick by UK Customs - they got more powers that God and they work under a "charter" called Customs & Excise Management Act which allows em to kinda do anything they like! ... Gotta be "the" most unstable "offshore" on the planet! *g*

Webby · 10-10-2002, 05:00 AM

toodamnfli:

Belize is kinda "East Mexico"... north of Honduras... Tis an offshore where they offer residency and no taxes on your business if your earnings are from outside Belize, ideal of net related activity.

Belize City is a dump... otherwise nice place. Land ... "paradise land" is so silly cheap, but rising rapidly. A good few US folks are escaping there. Saw stuff like 68 acres for $30K, 90 acres for $45K blah... Ideal for building your own "estate" *g*..

10-07-2002, 11:35 AM	#1
Shap Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8,313	ibill and the Bahamas We spent this past weekend reading the boards and worried about the new visa regulations. We are located in the bahamas and we were concerned these new regulations would make things real tough for us. Today I emailed our ibill rep, within 2 minutes of my email she called and informed me we had nothing to worry about. Ibill had a Visa Merchant in our region. Not only that but ibill has 5 of the 7 regions covered. I've been one of the first to bitch at ibill over the past year. I have to admit that this time ibill has pulled thru big time and is well prepared to help their clients.

10-07-2002, 11:38 AM	#2
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Yeah, some other people have posted that IBill reps told them the same thing. Looks like IBill is finally doing something right. Now what about the other processors? __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-07-2002, 12:27 PM	#6
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 74,817	IBill still owes me money from 900 sales. As soon as they pay up I'll stop complaining. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders

10-07-2002, 12:34 PM	#7
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	are porn companies allowed in the Bahamas? __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-07-2002, 12:36 PM	#8
Jon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 2,578	everything is allowed in the islands.. __________________ WickedFire.com - Stay here. We don't need more of you. Not unless you have money, then, fine...

10-07-2002, 12:23 PM	#5
Shap Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8,313	I think the other processors are scrambling for an answer (which isn't a good sign). I think ibill's size and their affiliation with their parent company intercept are coming in to play BIG TIME! We did ask about canadian webmasters. Right now there is no solution for them. According to ibill the only option is to open a company in the US and provide that info to ibill. You can continue to be paid to your canadian company (so i'm guessing there is no double taxes to worry about). All you canadian guys should open up down here in the bahamas TAX FREE BABY!

10-07-2002, 12:49 PM	#10
Shap Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8,313	Don't ask don't tell mentality The bahamas is an independant country. The other islands are under British rule and that's why there have been a few horror stories. Further more there is no need to say what you do. There are no taxes and no forms to fill out. You run your company, put your cash in the bank and nobody asks questions. If you want any more info drop me at line shap at iwca . com.

10-07-2002, 01:39 PM	#12
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	Thats good news for the IBC's. Most of my rebills are with IBill and I am located in the Turks and Caicos Islands. Starting a company on the islands is easy as hell and has many great benefits. 0% Taxes Protected from obsenity regulations Turks and Caicos Islands will not honor any foreign law suit Startup cost $1500 - 2000. Yearly cost $1200 which includes Mail forwarding and the corporate fee. I used this book and the author is a lawer located in Canada. Tax Heaven Guide Book by Ken Finkelstein http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...lance&n=507846 Last edited by andi_germany; 10-07-2002 at 01:42 PM..

10-07-2002, 02:18 PM	#14
Bear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 261	Hi andi_germany, Could you further explain what do you mean by "Turks and Caicos Islands will not honor any foreign law suit"? Is it means even if a foreign country suit your company at Turks and Caicos Islands, the court at Turks and Caicos Islands will not accept this law suit? Does Turks and Caicos Islands allow you to operate porn business? Max

10-08-2002, 12:40 AM	#15
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	shap, that's some interesting news, hopefully they'll give a solution to many webmasters. Btw, i know you are friends with Manny, have you seen him lately? I haven't talked to him for long time. Give him my greetings :-)

10-08-2002, 12:57 AM	#16
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Bear: The "islands" have no problems with porn laws and such .. also, as a rule, they will not accept any law suits which involve offenses which are not offenses within their legal system. Neato!

10-08-2002, 12:59 AM	#17
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	andi_germany: You actually living there?? If so, me gotta meet up some time! g... I am only 30 min flight from ya!

10-08-2002, 01:06 AM	#18
Bear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 261	Hi Webby, Thanks. It's great to hear that. But I also heard some islands don't welcome porn. Would point me which island welcome porn? I mean even hardcore and sm things. Do you know any website that can help you to incorpate there?

10-08-2002, 01:07 AM	#19
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	www.ocra.com __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-08-2002, 01:13 AM	#20
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Buy the way, Bahama's is not included in my "island list" - this is the exception. Most (shit all).. other islands have no porn laws, wot for? :-) The legal system is generally based on English Common Law. There are no taxes (apart from stuff like clothes blah which is included in import tax when you buy anything) ... the legal fees are nominal and the weather, beaches and drinks kinda nice! lol There is also a difference in island which are "UK Dominion Territories" - they do not have the same "security" as those outside this category. So choose carefully!

10-08-2002, 01:14 AM	#21
Bear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 261	Hi Brown Bear, Did you try that? Is it good?

10-08-2002, 01:21 AM	#22
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Hi Bear! Na.. don't use em websites... many years ago I struggled hard and travelled the globe for advice from "experts" - in the end, we wondered wot for g If you are interested, I can probably put you in touch direct with some lawyers on the islands who will set this stuff up and be your "directors". They give ya an unlimited authorisation to act on behalf of your company and do as you wish... You may then open up bank accounts in any jurisdiction you see fit and you only have total control over this. But, they also act as your "front end" and deal with any shit.. they are bound by law not to disclose any names/details of they get chucked in the clink. So far, been offshore for five years and only met good guys. There are some bits that may be relevant to your "status" at the moment regarding .. wots the word?? Tax? g... Depends where you are currently resident.

10-08-2002, 01:23 AM	#23
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Bear Wot island's have you heard of that as a problem?? Never come across this so far?

10-08-2002, 01:32 AM	#24
Bear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 261	Hi Weddy, Could you contact me on ICQ 167577753

10-08-2002, 01:36 AM	#26
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Be right there!

10-08-2002, 03:15 AM	#28
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	I lived in the Bahamas for a while but I went back to Europe because I was bored out of my scull. Anyway you cannot live in the country (island) you corporated in. Its simply not allowed. They don't honor foreign law suits. Meaning some guy sues your company for some shit in the US because the US is the only country a law suit makes you money. The TCI will not recognize that law suit and your money is protected. As to if porn is allowed or not. You found a company using a lawyer. Noone asks you what the hell you are planning to do and noone asks who the hell you are. The company is opened by a lawyer in that company who will own all shares. Than those shares are written over to you and now the sweet thing comes in to play: This change of ownership to you is not recorded by anyone, your name is not on the records. So basically noone knows who is operating that company and noone is interested in what that company is making money with. If you live in the US you would still have to pay taxes but it is very hard to catch you if you don't pay them and you are not dumb as hell. The book I mentioned above describes all that in easy terms.

10-08-2002, 03:20 AM	#29
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	Another nice one is this hosting company: http://www.havenco.com/ Its loated in Sealand. The history of Sealand is kind of funny but if you host there noone will be able to close your content down for any obsenity. Copyright is non existant there Only thing forbidden is childporn. Its expensive as hell but it's still a good option if you can't host in the US legally. P.S follow the Sealand History link and read up on it. Kind of cool Last edited by andi_germany; 10-08-2002 at 03:28 AM..

10-08-2002, 04:29 AM	#30
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Something.... Turks is a "UK Dominion" and Bahamas has already "caved in" to external pressures... so, I know it may only cost a few thousand, but if you are considering "offshore" you might as well start off having it in a secure jurisdiction.

10-08-2002, 04:46 AM	#31
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Something else... there is such a thing as offshore hosting... some places it is expensive.. others cheaper... but tis still an option....

10-08-2002, 05:39 AM	#32
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Anyway you cannot live in the country (island) you corporated in. Its simply not allowed. Andy.. tis ain't quite right... You speaking of some ruling on Bahama's only? There is no problem living on an island where you incorporate... that is not related to "residency". In fact, it is often an advantage in that you may then be a corp employee and be provided with a work permit... which in turn.. over a few years, allows you an extra passport :-) Been there.. done that!

10-08-2002, 06:02 AM	#33
markusborger So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 145	hehehe.... Still discussing about those US Billing scammers... After CCBILL used the VISA US non-beast processing rules to rip us hundreds fo thousands of dollars by killing our rebills and keeping our holdbacks for an unspecified amount of time and after IBILL having done the same..... We swiched to non US billers (like DiBill) a long time ago... Those silly US questions about those new VISA US RULES don´t happen here in EUROPE.... From our perspective things in US will be worse & worse in the comming times as they need to fix new burocratique ways to compensate themself for the money they are loosing because of the webmasters that are leaving them... mates.... it´s time to change to the serious and trustfull guys: http://www.dibill.com/tools/affreg.cgi?wid=640 Last edited by markusborger; 10-08-2002 at 06:23 AM..

10-08-2002, 06:08 AM	#34
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	markusborger: You being smug there??? g Yea, gotta agree with ya! Almost any Euro or offshore processor is preferable to any conditions in the US now. I am sure the US companies are well aware of this and will re-emerge in another form or establish offshore or other banking relationships... they can't afford not to!!

10-10-2002, 03:17 AM	#36
TDF Triple OG nigga on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in the BP4L family compound Posts: 27,296	Bahamas is nice but Belize is where it is! __________________ Sig heil

10-10-2002, 03:37 AM	#37
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	TheFLY: g Yea that's that old oil rig! ;-) As long as they behave, the UK govt don't give a damn.. but if there was a problem, that "offshore" g would be boarded pretty quick by UK Customs - they got more powers that God and they work under a "charter" called Customs & Excise Management Act which allows em to kinda do anything they like! ... Gotta be "the" most unstable "offshore" on the planet! g

10-10-2002, 05:00 AM	#38
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	toodamnfli: Belize is kinda "East Mexico"... north of Honduras... Tis an offshore where they offer residency and no taxes on your business if your earnings are from outside Belize, ideal of net related activity. Belize City is a dump... otherwise nice place. Land ... "paradise land" is so silly cheap, but rising rapidly. A good few US folks are escaping there. Saw stuff like 68 acres for $30K, 90 acres for $45K blah... Ideal for building your own "estate" g..