The inevitable result of an out of control gun culture

[Porn Farmer]

Thousands stranded, schools locked down as notorious group battles the LAPD after a drive-by killing.

By Richard Winton, Susannah Rosenblatt and Andrew Blankstein, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
February 22, 2008

A drive-by attack followed by a wild shootout between gang members and police shut down dozens of blocks of Northeast Los Angeles for nearly six hours Thursday afternoon, stranding thousands of residents, keeping students locked in their classrooms and leaving two people dead.

Veteran L.A. Police Department officials described the bizarre midday shootings -- and the widespread disruption they caused -- as highly unusual even in an area known for gang activity. It left the neighborhood littered with shell casings and its residents fearful.

Police blamed the incident on the notorious Avenues gang, which has cast a wide shadow over districts north of downtown L.A. for decades and continues to be active despite several high-profile attempts by authorities to shut it down.

The violence began around noon when a 37-year-old man police described as a bystander was shot more than a dozen times by suspected gang members as he held the hand of a 2-year-old girl. He later died. The toddler, apparently picked up by a passerby and carried to safety, was not wounded. As the gunmen drove off, witnesses told police, several pedestrians who apparently knew the victim opened fire on the car.

Minutes later, police attempted to stop suspects driving in a white Nissan sedan about 10 blocks away. Three men jumped out of the car, and at least two of them fired weapons at officers.

A man wielding an AK-47 rifle was killed by police as they returned fire, authorities said.

Another suspect was wounded and later found hiding under a car, where he was still holding a semiautomatic handgun, law enforcement sources said. Police said he is expected to recover.

But it was a massive manhunt for the two remaining suspects that shut down dozens of streets in Cypress Park until police arrested one of the men about 5:30 p.m. The other is believed to have driven out of the area, police said.

As police swept through the neighborhood, parents waited anxiously for word about their schoolchildren and other residents remained either stuck inside their homes or kept back by police barricades.

"My son is trapped over there and I can't get him," said Christine Schmidt, 37, who was inside her home near Drew Street and Avenue 32 when she heard the gunshots. Her son was one of the students locked down at Washington Irving Middle School.

"I want my son," she said.

During the search, SWAT team members took position and patrol deputies went door to door with dogs in a neighborhood Police Chief William J. Bratton called the "heart and soul" of the Avenues street gang, whose roots there date back more than 50 years.

As the search dragged on, Washington Irving Middle School students kept on lockdown were fed lunch, allowed bathroom breaks and kept in touch with parents by cellphone. Also locked down were Fletcher and Aragon elementary schools and Cal Charter.

An automated phone service notified parents of the lockdown status, which was not lifted until about 6:15 p.m.

Hundreds of residents gathered along sidewalks and on freeway bridges, waiting for police to allow them back into the neighborhood.

Juan Soto awoke at home to the sound of helicopters and police cars. His car was in the area blocked by police and he had no way to get to his job.

"My boss is not going to relieve me," said the 31-year-old.

Near the scene of the shootings Thursday, Bratton described a neighborhood terrorized in recent weeks by gang violence.

"Gangs that have been here for generations have been going at each other," Bratton said during a news conference, referring to the Avenues and Cypress Park gangs.

Since the beginning of the year, authorities said Avenues gang members are suspected in at least six homicides. Northeast Division, typically far from the most violent in the city, already has eight homicides this year, more than any other, police said. At that rate, the division would far eclipse last year's total of 18.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,2198361.story

Thousands stranded, schools locked down, gangs using fully automatic weapons battling cops on the streets.

But this is my favourite bit:

The violence began around noon when a 37-year-old man police described as a bystander was shot more than a dozen times by suspected gang members as he held the hand of a 2-year-old girl.

Guns breed violence. How can it be any more apparent?

[Brother Bilo]

Guns don't breed violence, they are just an extension of the person holding it. It's not like there wasn't violence before guns were invented. It's just a tool like any other, it requires common sense to know it's appropriate use.

[D]

Of course the government supports the disarming of its populace. We're easier to control that way.

It amazes me how many people are still willing to give up their liberties and the freedom of their children for the illusion of a little more security. Thankfully, our founding fathers had more sense than that.

[baddog]

I wonder if the guy with the AK had a death wish, or if he actually thought he would get away with it

[TCSMatt]

Really lame! Check out Gangland on the History channel. They even had a show featuring all the gang bangers in the Military , showing tags in Bagdad!
I prefer Reno 911 myself!

[AaronM]

Lets see now.....

According to the article, the gang members had fully automatic weapons.

Now, to the best of my knowledge, full auto weapons (Class III), are heavily regulated by gun control laws. In fact, so are standard semi-auto weapons. Under current law, I'm pretty sure the average gang member does not qualify to legally own a gun.

We already have gun control. What we need is better enforcement.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by Brother Bilo

Guns don't breed violence, they are just an extension of the person holding it. It's not like there wasn't violence before guns were invented. It's just a tool like any other, it requires common sense to know it's appropriate use.

Are you that stupid...

Guns are the best accessories for the person holding it.

Especially machine guns and semi automatics.

Remove the guns and you are back to knife and fist fights, less death and way less risks of innocent by standers to get it.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by AaronM

Lets see now.....

According to the article, the gang members had fully automatic weapons.

Now, to the best of my knowledge, full auto weapons (Class III), are heavily regulated by gun control laws. In fact, so are standard semi-auto weapons. Under current law, I'm pretty sure the average gang member does not qualify to legally own a gun.

We already have gun control. What we need is better enforcement.

You're making sense.

[Brother Bilo]

Originally Posted by Jean-Francois

Are you that stupid...

Guns are the best accessories for the person holding it.

Especially machine guns and semi automatics.

Remove the guns and you are back to knife and fist fights, less death and way less risks of innocent by standers to get it.

I understand your views are skewed, but mine aren't. I was a firearms instructor for years, along with teaching many different forms of personal protection, so I know what I'm talking about.

Like many other things, all that anyone focuses on are the negatives. For every gang member or whatever that uses a gun for bad, 10 people use them for good. Headlines like, "Local man uses his firearm in a safe and uneventful manner" don't really draw a large reviews.

My point is simple, guns don't make people violent or aggressive, they are simply the tool that are used by violent or aggressive people. I know countless people that have never needed or used their guns for any purpose besides a nice day at the shooting range. I also know countless people, people that I instructed, who have used their guns to protect their families.

If you would like to continue to use guns as a scapegoat for the worlds problems, it's ok, but if just educated yourself on the subject rather than just following the headlines and masses of the antigun crowd, you might just learn a thing or two about a thing or two.

[D]

Originally Posted by Jean-Francois

Are you that stupid...

Guns are the best accessories for the person holding it.

Especially machine guns and semi automatics.

Remove the guns and you are back to knife and fist fights, less death and way less risks of innocent by standers to get it.

Unless the person decides to use a Molotov cocktail... of pipe bomb... or flamethrower (I made one, myself, in high school... they're probably simpler than you think to make)...

Then more people could get hurt, eh?

If the desire is there, people will find a way.

I don't think Brother Bilo's stupid at all... I think his posts have been of the most sensible on this subject as of late. I think that a lot of people these days are short-sighted, and live fearful lives.

[AaronM]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

You're making sense.

Sorry. My bad.

I forgot this was GFY.

[Brother Bilo]

Originally Posted by D

Unless the person decides to use a Molotov cocktail... of pipe bomb... or flamethrower (I made one, myself, in high school... they're probably simpler than you think to make)...

Then more people could get hurt, eh?

If the desire is there, people will find a way.

I don't think Brother Bilo's stupid at all... I think his posts have been of the most sensible on this subject as of late. I think that a lot of people these days are short-sighted, and live fearful lives.

I'm just glad someone is finally pickin up what I'm putting down.

[ProjectNaked]

Originally Posted by Jean-Francois

...Remove the guns and you are back to knife and fist fights....

I'd rather be shot than stabbed

[Porn Farmer]

How about this case on the other side of the country, also this week:

Neighbors: High-Risk Lifestyle Kills Too Many

(Rochester, N.Y.) -- Around 8 p.m. Tuesday, Brent Coley and his friend, Da’marri Shaw, both 15-years-old, were inside 334 Wilkins Street, with several others, when one or more individuals broke into the house and opened fire.

Both boys were shot and later pronounced dead at Strong Memorial Hospital.

Police said robbery was a possible motive; they found a large amount of drugs and cash in the home. However, it’s not clear if the boys had been selling drugs, or if they were visiting the house.

Neighbors are saddened and scared, but not surprised at the events. The next-door neighbor said he thought the house was vacant.

Teresa Blount is raising her children on Wilkins Street.

"It's scary baby, it's very scary, because your heart is always going to be pounding,” she said. “You could just be walking out here in your yard and bullets flying across your head. That's sad.”

Neighbors feel the high-risk lifestyle has killed too many young lives. They feel helpless to do anything about it.

Another neighbor, Mary Pinkins, said, "I get tired of hearing about kids getting killed in the streets everyday. I'm tired of everything that's going on around here, but what can you do? If I had the money to move I wouldn't be here, I'd be somewhere else."

One woman, who has lived on the block for 20 years, said she's moved her bedroom to the back of the home, out of fear for a stray bullet.

There have been no arrests in this case. Anyone with any information about this crime is urged to call CrimeStoppers at (585) 423-9300. Callers remain anonymous and could receive a cash reward if their information leads to an arrest.

http://www.13wham.com/mostpopular/st...0-71420df5bb83

"It's scary baby, it's very scary, because your heart is always going to be pounding,” she said. “You could just be walking out here in your yard and bullets flying across your head. That's sad.”

Yes, it is sad.

One woman, who has lived on the block for 20 years, said she's moved her bedroom to the back of the home, out of fear for a stray bullet.

Gun nuts talk a lot about freedom. Where is the freedom for these citizens? They have to live in fear of stray bullets taking them out while they're in their yard or bedroom. How is that freedom? Ask these people if freedom means having guns or living without fear of stray bullets. I'm betting I know how they'll answer.

[Matt 26z]

Street gangs are a plague to any society. They need to be classified as homeland terrorists and delt with severely.

[Dave PSC]

Originally Posted by D

Of course the government supports the disarming of its populace. We're easier to control that way.

It amazes me how many people are still willing to give up their liberties and the freedom of their children for the illusion of a little more security. Thankfully, our founding fathers had more sense than that.

[ProjectNaked]

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

Gun nuts talk a lot about freedom. Where is the freedom for these citizens? They have to live in fear of stray bullets taking them out while they're in their yard or bedroom. How is that freedom? Ask these people if freedom means having guns or living without fear of stray bullets. I'm betting I know how they'll answer.

I'd rather have a few people getting shot than hundreds killed by suicide bombs.

[Brother Bilo]

So then you feel like if guns weren't around that those kids would be alive? That the only way a successful strong arm robbery can occur is if the attacker has a gun?

You're only proving my point, the media only focuses on stories of people who have had their lives turned upside down because of guns, what about the people who are alive because of a gun? Good luck finding those articles, because if they are even printed, they're buried.

I'm not saying there is a problem in not only in the US, but all over the world, of the wrong people having guns. There is. Gang members shouldn't have guns, criminals shouldn't have guns, and so on....but the answer isn't to remove guns from people who treat them with respect and educate themselves on the proper uses of guns.

[Porn Farmer]

Originally Posted by Brother Bilo

So then you feel like if guns weren't around that those kids would be alive?

Probably.

Cowards use guns. These punks were cowards. I doubt they'd have had the balls to stab somebody to death. Also, unlike firearms, stabbing means you have to be at close range and at risk of being disarmed by someone who knows what they're doing.

[Brother Bilo]

Originally Posted by Porn Farmer

Probably.

Cowards use guns. These punks were cowards. I doubt they'd have had the balls to stab somebody to death. Also, unlike firearms, stabbing means you have to be at close range and at risk of being disarmed by someone who knows what they're doing.

That's a pretty big assumption. As for the range of most firefights, they aren't as far away as you are thinking. Most gunfights happen within a very close range. These kids were in a house, so the guys shooting had to be within at least 20 and that's a rather large guess. These weren't snipers shooting from a block away, there were right there.

Look up the statistics for yourself, just because it was a gun being used, doesn't mean it wasn't at close range.

We'll never know whether those kids would still be alive if there weren't guns involved, and I wouldn't care to take a guess, since it would only be speculation.

[Darkland]

I find it incredible to see so many retarded people spouting off about gun control and the damage to a society who STILL has the right to bear them. I suppose it comes mostly from the uneducated or the populace of countries that DON'T have the right to bear arms. Let me show you a few things:

I couldn't find a recent statistical sheet but this one from 2001 will do...

"In the U.S. for 2001, there were 29,573 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,869; Homicide 11,348; Accident 802; Legal Intervention 323; Undetermined 231"

While deaths from firearms made the top 10 leading causes of death, it came in dead last, there are a few myths to disspell.

Major Cardiovasular Diseases - 936,923
Malignant Neoplasms - 553,091
Chronic Lower Resperitory Dis. - 122,009
Diabetes Mellitus - 69,301
Influenza and Pneumonia - 65,313
Alzheimers - 49,558
Motor Vehicle Accidents - 43,354
Renal Failure - 36,471
Septicemia - 31,224
Firearms - 29,573

For starters most of those numbers attributed to homicide with a firearm aren't carried out with a legally purchased firearm. They are purchased off the street or stolen.

This does not mean that homicides can't be committed by a person who legally bought the firearm because it does happen but those numbers are no where near as high as the crimes committed with illegal firearms.

US citizens CAN NOT buy fully automatic weapons.

ALL crimes committed with these types of weapons CAN NOT be attributed to an out of control gun culture. PERIOD.

Whether you like it or not, if a criminal wants a weapon they WILL get one and it WILL NOT be through legal means. PERIOD.

Look at some of your own countries where there is little or no legal means for owning a firearm. There are STILL crimes committed with firearms. Is THAT due to an out of control gun culture? No. It's not. Its due to people with criminal intent NOT lack of gun control.

[uno]

Hey now, if all of them were armed in the first place... OH... nevermind.