VISA..the news from the big boys? - GoFuckYourself.com

49thParallel · 10-06-2002, 02:55 PM

The one thing that seems to be sadly lacking in this whole discussion on the new VISA ruling, is any input from the big players in this industry. This would include Adult.com, Cybererotica,...and so on.

Instead we have a bunch of smaller operators developing tons of conspiracy theories on what the new VISA regs really mean and what the impact will be. Surely, the big players could put an end to all of the guessing by posting what they know..what is true...and what is simply fear mongering. With the sales volume that any of the big boys generate, I am sure that they already have all of the answers and have already worked it out with their lawyers and processing agents.

So, without showing us your whole hand..how about showing us at least a few cards in the VISA deck.

Futher does anyone have a single link to the official announcement from VISA, located on a VISA site. Or any of the non-adult tech sites...it does seem rather odd that not one link can be found which contains the unabridged announcement from VISA

ControlThy · 10-06-2002, 03:21 PM

The larger adult companies are staying silent about this issue, and may have a good reason to.

There are alot of rumors, conflicting stories and internal problems at the processors themselves. You will not hear one straight story.

pipp · 10-06-2002, 03:21 PM

The big boys are probably not on the level that this board are about this issue. Most of them dont prosess 3 party. I know CE prosess in house.

.:Frog:. · 10-06-2002, 03:26 PM

No kidding, I want to know what happens if sponsors switch billing companies, will the sales we make the next while will be paid or not.

El Demonio · 10-06-2002, 03:29 PM

There is one simple reason:

THEY ARE NOT AFFECTED

This only applies to 3rd party billing and the big boys have their own merchan accounts.

It is not their fight

steffie · 10-06-2002, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Demonio
There is one simple reason:

THEY ARE NOT AFFECTED

This only applies to 3rd party billing and the big boys have their own merchan accounts.

It is not their fight

Bingo!!!
Well said
They already paying their fees to MC and Visa for years, like most merchants do.
It does not affect somebody like adult.com, ars,, etc

big boys have big money and merchant account. If affects only the poor shits like us who depend on 3rd party billing for whatever reason.

49thParallel · 10-06-2002, 03:41 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but other posts would indicate that the tougher Chargeback ratio will be across the board, which would effect those with their own merchant accounts as well. Plus, Adult.com does use paycom or ibill, so I think you might be incorrect to think that they will be immune to tougher regulations.

SykkBoy · 10-06-2002, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Demonio
There is one simple reason:

THEY ARE NOT AFFECTED

This only applies to 3rd party billing and the big boys have their own merchan accounts.

It is not their fight

actually, most still process with third party as well...they get lower rates though and I'm sure are alerted to (potential)problems first...I figure most of them are too busy getting their own houses in order before wasting time posting to message boards about what they are doing....

DarkWing · 10-06-2002, 05:42 PM

G'day peoples,

I got sent a fax from WSB which is taken straight from Visa. I got sent it because I am outside of America and they want to charge me 3K a month so I can keep using them (after Nov 15th).

It all comes from 'High-Risk Internet Payment Service Provider Registration Program?, Visa Business Review ? Systems & Operations, July 2002, Issue No 020730. Effective November 15, 2002.

I suspect that WSB shouldn't have sent me the fax, but I beleive they thought I would rollover and pay their 3K a month to have a ligit company in the states.

As far as I can tell about the document, it looks like VISA is going against the billing companies. Here's the gist of the document:

* High-Risk Internet Payment Service Provider (IPSP) - An online entity that enters into a contract with an Acquirer to provide paytment services to Sponsored Merchants, and includes one or more Sponsored Merchants classified as MCC 5967 (Direct Marketing - Inbound Teleservices Merchant) in its Sponsored MErchant portfolio.

* High-Risk Sponsored Merchant (SM): An online business designated with MCC 5967 (Direct Marketing - Inbound Teleservices Merchant) that contracts with an IPSP to perform some or all of its payment operations on its behalf.

There follows a whole heap of Risk Management requirements, rules about registration, program requirements and fees and fines. There's also a page on Risk Standards that the IPSP is to take, during the life of the agreement.

Bottom line seems to be:

Risk Management

* Capital requirement: A minimum Tier 1 capital requirement of $100 million must be maintained for registration of a High-Risk IPSP.
* Acquirer Status: An Acquirer must be in good standing in all Visa risk management programs.
* Terminated Merchant File: An Acquirer must query the Terminated merchant file for each potential high risk sponsored merchant. Additionally an Acquirer must ensure that all its High-Risk IPSPs are notified of merchants that have been disqualified from the Visa system and that Visa processing privileges must not be extended to them.
* Disqualification: Visa may disqualify a High-Risk IPSP or High-Risk Sponsored Merchant in accordance with the Chargeback Monitoring Programs or for other activity that causes undue harm to the Visa system.
* Merchant Prohibition: Visa may prohibit one or more online Merchants.
* Prohibition against Cross-Border Acquiring

Fees:
* High Risk IPSP:
* $5,000 ? initial registration
* $2,500 ? Annual registration
* High Risk Sponsored Merchant
* $500 ? initial registration
* $250 ? Annual registration
* Fines: An acquirer that fails to comply with registration requirements for a High Risk IPSP or High Risk Sponsored Merchant is assessed penalties as follows:
* $25,000 per High-Risk Sponsored Merchant or High Risk IPSP per month
* $100,000 per month after three violations in a calendar year and/or prohibition against signing a High Risk Sponsored Merchant

Seems to me that Visa hates not choosing its own merchants and plans to close the whole billing processor business down. Also looks like they want to stop any overseas company from doing business in America.

DarkWing

PS. All prices are in US dollars :-)

quiet · 10-06-2002, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkWing

I got sent a fax from WSB which is taken straight from Visa. I got sent it because I am outside of America and they want to charge me 3K a month so I can keep using them (after Nov 15th).

where is the part about the the 3K?

Fletch XXX · 10-06-2002, 05:53 PM

3k a month.

hahaha

dizamn.

Tipsy · 10-06-2002, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2

actually, most still process with third party as well...they get lower rates though and I'm sure are alerted to (potential)problems first...I figure most of them are too busy getting their own houses in order before wasting time posting to message boards about what they are doing....

I was thinking much the same. There's a lot out there still use 3rd party if only for a backup. Topbucks for example use ibill for some odd reason and from stats it seems about a 3rd of all their transactions end up going through the backup processors

DarkWing · 10-06-2002, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

where is the part about the the 3K?

They call it a 'Domicile Establishment Protocol Package', here it is:

November 15, 2002 is the deadline for compliance with Visa?s new IPSP rules concerning all third party billers and their sub-merchants. WSB has been working diligently the past several months developing its strategic plans to conform to the new regulations. In an effort to help our international friends comply, WSB has developed a Domicile Establishment Protocol Package (DEPP). Step by step assistance for international clients to domicile and continue transaction processing without interruption. WSB has been committed strongly to its clients and we sincerely appreciate your business. Please review the requirements and pricing for our assistance with these steps.

Compliance Assistance:

A) Assistance in Establishing a Corporation
B) Assistance in obtaining a Federal Tax ID #
C) Assistance with Occupational License
D) Assistance with opening Business Checking accounts
E) Assistance with filing of appropriate legal documents
F) Recruiting, Interviewing and hire of one employee
______
$3800
__________________________________________________ _

Monthly Continuous Jurisdictional Requirement Compliance:

Dedicated Office Space including but not limited to the following:
Desk Space
Desktop Pentium computer
DSL Internet Access
Own Local direct telephone number with voice mail
Use of all fax, color copiers and laser jet printers
Payroll of employee
Liability insurance coverage
Incidentals (pens, paper, etc?)
$3,000

I take it WSB sees a way to charge overseas companies some good money. Obviously WSB will make money, but if you look over the terms from VISA the penalties are very very hefty.

Personaly if i was WSB, i would be closing business and going into something else. The terms from VISA seem more aimed at closing down the billing companies. That in effect would get rid of what VISA see as credit card fraud.

Dark Wing

DarkWing · 10-06-2002, 06:33 PM

Did anyone else get the 'IPSP Notice' from [email protected]? I have seen some reference to correspondence but not anyone stating facts.

We will not re-register with WebSiteBilling, would have to pay 6.5K upfront and 3K after that (thats a sh*tload in my currency).

Starting to wonder if there is any point? Unless your very big I only see websites making money out of trails that make it hard to cancel in time, or selling something they don't have.

Dark Wing.

quiet · 10-06-2002, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkWing

They call it a 'Domicile Establishment Protocol Package', here it is:

November 15, 2002 is the deadline for compliance with Visa?s new IPSP rules concerning all third party billers and their sub-merchants. WSB has been working diligently the past several months developing its strategic plans to conform to the new regulations. In an effort to help our international friends comply, WSB has developed a Domicile Establishment Protocol Package (DEPP). Step by step assistance for international clients to domicile and continue transaction processing without interruption. WSB has been committed strongly to its clients and we sincerely appreciate your business. Please review the requirements and pricing for our assistance with these steps.

Compliance Assistance:

A) Assistance in Establishing a Corporation
B) Assistance in obtaining a Federal Tax ID #
C) Assistance with Occupational License
D) Assistance with opening Business Checking accounts
E) Assistance with filing of appropriate legal documents
F) Recruiting, Interviewing and hire of one employee
______
$3800
__________________________________________________ _

Monthly Continuous Jurisdictional Requirement Compliance:

Dedicated Office Space including but not limited to the following:
Desk Space
Desktop Pentium computer
DSL Internet Access
Own Local direct telephone number with voice mail
Use of all fax, color copiers and laser jet printers
Payroll of employee
Liability insurance coverage
Incidentals (pens, paper, etc?)
$3,000

I take it WSB sees a way to charge overseas companies some good money. Obviously WSB will make money, but if you look over the terms from VISA the penalties are very very hefty.

Personaly if i was WSB, i would be closing business and going into something else. The terms from VISA seem more aimed at closing down the billing companies. That in effect would get rid of what VISA see as credit card fraud.

Dark Wing

holy shit. so it looks like 'US presence' may infact mean more than just a corp. an actual office and an employee requirement. fuck.

as bad as that sounds, i wish ibill would come up with a similar package.

Brown Bear · 10-06-2002, 06:36 PM

IBill is planning to setup a merchant bank in Australia. Call them.

Jayson · 10-06-2002, 06:36 PM

I got there original email but not the one you just posted yet, but had heard it was coming.

And with what RonC from CCbill posted the other day it is certainly looking like you need an employee in the US. I am assuming that they have to sign the statement they mentioned that they are a US webmaster but I would assume that they dont have to sign a guarantee like you have to to get your own merchant account. No employee is going to risk that.

Jayson · 10-06-2002, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
IBill is planning to setup a merchant bank in Australia. Call them.

I really think they will struggle in Australia. Visa's scheme rules in Australia prohibit 3rd party agregators like Ibill. It has been tried before, and banks have even issued the facilities before, but then visa eventually comes along and has them terminated.

So unless I can get my hands on a new copy of Visa's scheme rules with changes to this requirement there is no way I would process in Australia through an agregator as the account will be pulled - eventually.

quiet · 10-06-2002, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
IBill is planning to setup a merchant bank in Australia. Call them.

i'm in Canada. apparently there is no way for them to set up here.

Jayson · 10-06-2002, 06:41 PM

Having said all that, there is a paypal rip off operating in Australia now but I still think they are skirting around the issue.

I have some calls in to check this out.

ozzymandius · 10-06-2002, 06:41 PM

What a joke. And who gets actual use of the employee, the webmaster or the 3rd-party biller?

Ha! Ha! They want to charge WEBMASTERS to underwrite new employees for themselves? You can bet that the new "employee" will work at the HQ of the third-party biller doing whatever work they want to throw them at. Not a bad deal for the 3 stooges. Guess that $750 wasn't enough?

This gets more fucking retarded every day.

The Other Steve · 10-06-2002, 06:43 PM

I wonder why the term "Highway Robbery" springs to mind

quiet · 10-06-2002, 06:44 PM

so, ibill, ccbill et al - where are your 'packages'?

Gary · 10-06-2002, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet
so, ibill, ccbill et al - where are your 'packages'?

Stuck in my ass

The Other Steve · 10-06-2002, 06:53 PM

Actually - as strange as it may sound - now is a great time for a small operator to set up a paysite.

If you can find your way through all this shit and think outside the normal paysite box there will be so little competition left that you are almost guaranteed to make money

cherrylula · 10-06-2002, 07:05 PM

I wonder how long third party billing has even existed?

I had a mainstream business a few years ago, and in 95 I was unable to find any sort of service such as third party billing, and as I had credit issues at the time it would have been great as I was gonna have to pay too much to get my own merchant account back then to accept visa/mc payments.

I think visa is just trying to get rid of third party billing. It sort of makes sense if you think about it. They want everyone to have their own accounts. I was trying to find a reasonable comparison to this, but imagine a service for people unable to qualify for a bank account. I'll just get one account and then charge a bunch of people to use it. Yeah, right. Get your own account, that is what it comes down to.

steffie · 10-06-2002, 07:25 PM

We also have a Merchant Account for our Retail store, and trust me I had to jump hoops and give up a kidney to get it. Thankfully in 93 I was employed and owned a home. So I was approved.

Besides the fact that they look at everything when trying to get a merchant account there are huge fees involved.

Netbilling for instance

200 setup
20 bucks per month
80 cents per transaction for fullservice
about 1500 for the bank (one time)
yearly fees (about 500) to the CC companies

If you go over your charge back ratio for high risk about 2% depending on volumn, you loose your merchant account

Thats right there the reason why I never used it! and always depended on 3rd billing. Now I am actually thinking off getting one.

Fuck!

DarkWing · 10-06-2002, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jayson

I really think they will struggle in Australia. Visa's scheme rules in Australia prohibit 3rd party agregators like Ibill. It has been tried before, and banks have even issued the facilities before, but then visa eventually comes along and has them terminated.

So unless I can get my hands on a new copy of Visa's scheme rules with changes to this requirement there is no way I would process in Australia through an agregator as the account will be pulled - eventually.

I agree 200% Its hard enough getting a merchant account when your totaly non-adult. There is no way you can when you are adult. I had some friends look into setting up a billing company in oz, they had serious money behind them (talking over 150mill). All banks said no way, they only deal direct to customers.

I don't know about the rest of the world (excluding USA) but here I think billing will be belly up soon.

I have been dealing with a bloke who is in the credit card fraud section for merchant accounts. Made it pretty clear that banks have no say in any of this, a word from Visa and you go down.

Game over man, game over.

The Other Steve · 10-06-2002, 07:59 PM

Merchant accounts sure are odd animals - Marie got one for her hooker business throught the Commonwealth Bank with no problems at all but do you think we could get their commercial section to write a lease for our computers?

They didn't want to be seen to be dealing with someone like her so they just refused to respond to the application

Shoplifter · 10-06-2002, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkWing
Visa Business Review ? Systems & Operations, July 2002, Issue No 020730. Effective November 15, 2002.

* Prohibition against Cross-Border Acquiring

Seems to me that Visa hates not choosing its own merchants and plans to close the whole billing processor business down.

Ah so this was known as far back as July.

Running 3rd party processing through your Visa account in Canada is known as "Factoring". It is immediate grounds for termination. I have never understood how the USA billers get away with it.

49thParallel · 10-06-2002, 08:38 PM

What I still find strange is the lack of "official" information that could be found straight from VISA. Try a search for IPSP on VISA's international site and the US site....the result..zero matches. Then try VISA IPSP on google...134 matches..none of them related to VISA. Seems strange that all of the second hand information passed on so far contains frequent use of this abbreviation, and yet no matches can be found directly from VISA.

I'm not saying that the payment processors are misleading us...just that there must be a link out there somewhere that will let merchants see the document in it's entire unabridged format.

Brown Bear · 10-06-2002, 08:45 PM

I would also like to see some official information from Visa, and not just Visa USA, but from the other Visa regions too

El Demonio · 10-06-2002, 08:52 PM

Globill said it first, this is pointed to terminate 3rd party billing:

"The new Visa rules in particular are directed against "aggregators" which specifically means companies such as ours in the third-party industry. The new rules are slated to come into effect very shortly within the US. These rules would make the third-party model prohibitively expensive for the industry. It would essentially be rendered impractical. Some billing companies such as Lancelot have decided to shut down rather than continue under the Visa/Mastercard regime.

However, not all regions of the world come under the new rules. The merchant banking industry is broken up into different regions such as North America, Europe, Asia etc. Each region can decide to opt in or opt out. While the US region has opted in, other regions have opted out. GloBill has decided to run its business with reputable banks in the opt-out regions. Not all billing companies have the capital, know how or foresight to set up merchant accounts with these particular banks and that is why I foresee some of these companies going under over the next few months.

With this move, GloBill feels it will emerge as one of the most stable companies in the industry.

Adrian Martin
Vice President
Glo-Bill.com "

Now, the 3 stooges know this is the end for them UNLESS.... unless they can incorporate us all into US, ha ha ha...

They now that, if they fail to force us, it is the fucking end for them and if they don't die, it will be becasue they could come up with some solution, fine, then let them agonize and find that solution.

they deserve it for being arrogant all this years.

DarkWing · 10-06-2002, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel
What I still find strange is the lack of "official" information that could be found straight from VISA. Try a search for IPSP on VISA's international site and the US site....the result..zero matches. Then try VISA IPSP on google...134 matches..none of them related to VISA. Seems strange that all of the second hand information passed on so far contains frequent use of this abbreviation, and yet no matches can be found directly from VISA.

I'm not saying that the payment processors are misleading us...just that there must be a link out there somewhere that will let merchants see the document in it's entire unabridged format.

I agree. Seems suspect that the doco i got came from WSB at the same time they told me the 3K per month fee to resolve the issue.

I did a big search online for any of the info and only got hits on 'Visa Business Review'. i had another look at the fax and found a confidentiality clause, so i s'pose most people would be discouraged from printing (presume the press would be in the same boat).

At the same time I have the fax in front of me. Looks pretty official, obviously of a previously bound document and the layout is professional. I dont have the whole doco, but there is more than enough to convince me that its real.

Hmm, combined with how the banks in Oz refuse point blank to deal with porn (and how difficult it is for a ligit site), i find it truthful.

Only my

AM Jeff · 10-06-2002, 10:37 PM

Wanna know why you haven't heard anything from the BIG BOYS?

Instead if fucking bitching about it.

They are working on a solution and fucking dealing with the problem at hand.

Not whining....

If you don't like what VISA has handed down to you..

Get the fuck outta this business.
Its not for you.

OnTime · 10-06-2002, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AM Jeff
Wanna know why you haven't heard anything from the BIG BOYS?

Instead if fucking bitching about it.

They are working on a solution and fucking dealing with the problem at hand.

Not whining....

If you don't like what VISA has handed down to you..

Get the fuck outta this business.
Its not for you.

Then apparently you're not one of the 'big boys'. Fucking idiot.

AM Jeff · 10-06-2002, 11:07 PM

Yeah...you'd be surprised who I am..lol

I got better things to worry about than $750.

If your worried about this silly BS.

Get the fuck out and go get a job.

McDonalds is hiring.
I hear..

With benifits too

Fucking whiners..

49thParallel · 10-07-2002, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AM Jeff
Yeah...you'd be surprised who I am..lol

I got better things to worry about than $750.

If your worried about this silly BS.

Get the fuck out and go get a job.

McDonalds is hiring.
I hear..

With benifits too

Fucking whiners..

Jeff...before going to McDonalds, I would make a stop at your local educational center a must...

I got, should be "I've" got or even better, "I've better"
If your, should be If "you're"
Benifits, should be "Benefits"

Thanks for coming out....

manilaheat · 10-07-2002, 04:18 AM

Any interest in a third party billing service in the Philippines?

$250.00 setup fee gets you your own ATM bank account in which your bi-weekly funds are deposited directly to.

Our company will have an offshore system sponsored and partly owned by a Philippine Bank here within 2 months.

Let me have some feedback on this issue...

Bear · 10-07-2002, 04:39 AM

Can Philippine allow porn business? I mean hardcore or SM things.

AM Jeff · 10-07-2002, 11:42 AM

49thParallel..."I've" got better things to do than worry about $750 or what will happen next.
I also hire ignorant fucks like you that have nothing better to do then mircoscope out and correct grammer.

Some people normally hire stupid fucks to do that for us since they don't know how to tie their own shoes.

Go back to pumping your neighbors dog.
I'll holler at ya if I need anything proof read.

10-06-2002, 02:55 PM	#1
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	VISA..the news from the big boys? The one thing that seems to be sadly lacking in this whole discussion on the new VISA ruling, is any input from the big players in this industry. This would include Adult.com, Cybererotica,...and so on. Instead we have a bunch of smaller operators developing tons of conspiracy theories on what the new VISA regs really mean and what the impact will be. Surely, the big players could put an end to all of the guessing by posting what they know..what is true...and what is simply fear mongering. With the sales volume that any of the big boys generate, I am sure that they already have all of the answers and have already worked it out with their lawyers and processing agents. So, without showing us your whole hand..how about showing us at least a few cards in the VISA deck. Futher does anyone have a single link to the official announcement from VISA, located on a VISA site. Or any of the non-adult tech sites...it does seem rather odd that not one link can be found which contains the unabridged announcement from VISA Last edited by 49thParallel; 10-06-2002 at 02:58 PM..

10-06-2002, 03:26 PM	#4
.:Frog:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ~ C A N A D A ~ Posts: 2,123	No kidding, I want to know what happens if sponsors switch billing companies, will the sales we make the next while will be paid or not. __________________ <a href="http://www.pornopayouts.com/?rid=pp3076">PornoPayouts</a> Tons of Hosted Galleries.

10-06-2002, 03:29 PM	#5
El Demonio Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Hell Posts: 237	There is one simple reason: THEY ARE NOT AFFECTED This only applies to 3rd party billing and the big boys have their own merchan accounts. It is not their fight __________________ WE ARE ALL ONE CIRCLE, NO BEGINNING, NO END.

10-06-2002, 05:53 PM	#11
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	3k a month. hahaha dizamn. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

10-06-2002, 06:36 PM	#16
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	IBill is planning to setup a merchant bank in Australia. Call them. __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-06-2002, 03:21 PM	#2
ControlThy Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,909	The larger adult companies are staying silent about this issue, and may have a good reason to. There are alot of rumors, conflicting stories and internal problems at the processors themselves. You will not hear one straight story.

10-06-2002, 03:21 PM	#3
pipp Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Where the sun don't shine Posts: 1,185	The big boys are probably not on the level that this board are about this issue. Most of them dont prosess 3 party. I know CE prosess in house.

10-06-2002, 03:41 PM	#7
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Correct me if I'm wrong, but other posts would indicate that the tougher Chargeback ratio will be across the board, which would effect those with their own merchant accounts as well. Plus, Adult.com does use paycom or ibill, so I think you might be incorrect to think that they will be immune to tougher regulations.

10-06-2002, 05:42 PM	#9
DarkWing Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Land Downunder Posts: 12	G'day peoples, I got sent a fax from WSB which is taken straight from Visa. I got sent it because I am outside of America and they want to charge me 3K a month so I can keep using them (after Nov 15th). It all comes from 'High-Risk Internet Payment Service Provider Registration Program?, Visa Business Review ? Systems & Operations, July 2002, Issue No 020730. Effective November 15, 2002. I suspect that WSB shouldn't have sent me the fax, but I beleive they thought I would rollover and pay their 3K a month to have a ligit company in the states. As far as I can tell about the document, it looks like VISA is going against the billing companies. Here's the gist of the document: * High-Risk Internet Payment Service Provider (IPSP) - An online entity that enters into a contract with an Acquirer to provide paytment services to Sponsored Merchants, and includes one or more Sponsored Merchants classified as MCC 5967 (Direct Marketing - Inbound Teleservices Merchant) in its Sponsored MErchant portfolio. * High-Risk Sponsored Merchant (SM): An online business designated with MCC 5967 (Direct Marketing - Inbound Teleservices Merchant) that contracts with an IPSP to perform some or all of its payment operations on its behalf. There follows a whole heap of Risk Management requirements, rules about registration, program requirements and fees and fines. There's also a page on Risk Standards that the IPSP is to take, during the life of the agreement. Bottom line seems to be: Risk Management * Capital requirement: A minimum Tier 1 capital requirement of $100 million must be maintained for registration of a High-Risk IPSP. * Acquirer Status: An Acquirer must be in good standing in all Visa risk management programs. * Terminated Merchant File: An Acquirer must query the Terminated merchant file for each potential high risk sponsored merchant. Additionally an Acquirer must ensure that all its High-Risk IPSPs are notified of merchants that have been disqualified from the Visa system and that Visa processing privileges must not be extended to them. * Disqualification: Visa may disqualify a High-Risk IPSP or High-Risk Sponsored Merchant in accordance with the Chargeback Monitoring Programs or for other activity that causes undue harm to the Visa system. * Merchant Prohibition: Visa may prohibit one or more online Merchants. * Prohibition against Cross-Border Acquiring Fees: * High Risk IPSP: * $5,000 ? initial registration * $2,500 ? Annual registration * High Risk Sponsored Merchant * $500 ? initial registration * $250 ? Annual registration * Fines: An acquirer that fails to comply with registration requirements for a High Risk IPSP or High Risk Sponsored Merchant is assessed penalties as follows: * $25,000 per High-Risk Sponsored Merchant or High Risk IPSP per month * $100,000 per month after three violations in a calendar year and/or prohibition against signing a High Risk Sponsored Merchant Seems to me that Visa hates not choosing its own merchants and plans to close the whole billing processor business down. Also looks like they want to stop any overseas company from doing business in America. DarkWing PS. All prices are in US dollars :-)

10-06-2002, 06:33 PM	#14
DarkWing Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Land Downunder Posts: 12	Did anyone else get the 'IPSP Notice' from [email protected]? I have seen some reference to correspondence but not anyone stating facts. We will not re-register with WebSiteBilling, would have to pay 6.5K upfront and 3K after that (thats a sh*tload in my currency). Starting to wonder if there is any point? Unless your very big I only see websites making money out of trails that make it hard to cancel in time, or selling something they don't have. Dark Wing.

10-06-2002, 06:36 PM	#17
Jayson Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: CZ Posts: 554	I got there original email but not the one you just posted yet, but had heard it was coming. And with what RonC from CCbill posted the other day it is certainly looking like you need an employee in the US. I am assuming that they have to sign the statement they mentioned that they are a US webmaster but I would assume that they dont have to sign a guarantee like you have to to get your own merchant account. No employee is going to risk that. __________________ Sapphic Cash - We Do It Right

10-06-2002, 06:41 PM	#20
Jayson Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: CZ Posts: 554	Having said all that, there is a paypal rip off operating in Australia now but I still think they are skirting around the issue. I have some calls in to check this out. __________________ Sapphic Cash - We Do It Right

10-06-2002, 06:41 PM	#21
ozzymandius Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 111	What a joke. And who gets actual use of the employee, the webmaster or the 3rd-party biller? Ha! Ha! They want to charge WEBMASTERS to underwrite new employees for themselves? You can bet that the new "employee" will work at the HQ of the third-party biller doing whatever work they want to throw them at. Not a bad deal for the 3 stooges. Guess that $750 wasn't enough? This gets more fucking retarded every day. Last edited by ozzymandius; 10-06-2002 at 06:43 PM..

10-06-2002, 06:43 PM	#22
The Other Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sunny Queensland - perfect one day and better the next. Posts: 2,106	I wonder why the term "Highway Robbery" springs to mind __________________ Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain

10-06-2002, 06:44 PM	#23
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	so, ibill, ccbill et al - where are your 'packages'?

10-06-2002, 06:53 PM	#25
The Other Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sunny Queensland - perfect one day and better the next. Posts: 2,106	Actually - as strange as it may sound - now is a great time for a small operator to set up a paysite. If you can find your way through all this shit and think outside the normal paysite box there will be so little competition left that you are almost guaranteed to make money __________________ Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain

10-06-2002, 07:05 PM	#26
cherrylula lol Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 15,969	I wonder how long third party billing has even existed? I had a mainstream business a few years ago, and in 95 I was unable to find any sort of service such as third party billing, and as I had credit issues at the time it would have been great as I was gonna have to pay too much to get my own merchant account back then to accept visa/mc payments. I think visa is just trying to get rid of third party billing. It sort of makes sense if you think about it. They want everyone to have their own accounts. I was trying to find a reasonable comparison to this, but imagine a service for people unable to qualify for a bank account. I'll just get one account and then charge a bunch of people to use it. Yeah, right. Get your own account, that is what it comes down to.

10-06-2002, 07:25 PM	#27
steffie Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Mountains, far far away Posts: 2,422	We also have a Merchant Account for our Retail store, and trust me I had to jump hoops and give up a kidney to get it. Thankfully in 93 I was employed and owned a home. So I was approved. Besides the fact that they look at everything when trying to get a merchant account there are huge fees involved. Netbilling for instance 200 setup 20 bucks per month 80 cents per transaction for fullservice about 1500 for the bank (one time) yearly fees (about 500) to the CC companies If you go over your charge back ratio for high risk about 2% depending on volumn, you loose your merchant account Thats right there the reason why I never used it! and always depended on 3rd billing. Now I am actually thinking off getting one. Fuck! __________________ Partying since '96 and not going anywhere Anna's Dorm

10-06-2002, 07:59 PM	#29
The Other Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sunny Queensland - perfect one day and better the next. Posts: 2,106	Merchant accounts sure are odd animals - Marie got one for her hooker business throught the Commonwealth Bank with no problems at all but do you think we could get their commercial section to write a lease for our computers? They didn't want to be seen to be dealing with someone like her so they just refused to respond to the application __________________ Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain

10-06-2002, 08:38 PM	#31
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	What I still find strange is the lack of "official" information that could be found straight from VISA. Try a search for IPSP on VISA's international site and the US site....the result..zero matches. Then try VISA IPSP on google...134 matches..none of them related to VISA. Seems strange that all of the second hand information passed on so far contains frequent use of this abbreviation, and yet no matches can be found directly from VISA. I'm not saying that the payment processors are misleading us...just that there must be a link out there somewhere that will let merchants see the document in it's entire unabridged format.

10-06-2002, 08:45 PM	#32
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	I would also like to see some official information from Visa, and not just Visa USA, but from the other Visa regions too __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-06-2002, 08:52 PM	#33
El Demonio Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Hell Posts: 237	Globill said it first, this is pointed to terminate 3rd party billing: "The new Visa rules in particular are directed against "aggregators" which specifically means companies such as ours in the third-party industry. The new rules are slated to come into effect very shortly within the US. These rules would make the third-party model prohibitively expensive for the industry. It would essentially be rendered impractical. Some billing companies such as Lancelot have decided to shut down rather than continue under the Visa/Mastercard regime. However, not all regions of the world come under the new rules. The merchant banking industry is broken up into different regions such as North America, Europe, Asia etc. Each region can decide to opt in or opt out. While the US region has opted in, other regions have opted out. GloBill has decided to run its business with reputable banks in the opt-out regions. Not all billing companies have the capital, know how or foresight to set up merchant accounts with these particular banks and that is why I foresee some of these companies going under over the next few months. With this move, GloBill feels it will emerge as one of the most stable companies in the industry. Adrian Martin Vice President Glo-Bill.com " Now, the 3 stooges know this is the end for them UNLESS.... unless they can incorporate us all into US, ha ha ha... They now that, if they fail to force us, it is the fucking end for them and if they don't die, it will be becasue they could come up with some solution, fine, then let them agonize and find that solution. they deserve it for being arrogant all this years. __________________ WE ARE ALL ONE CIRCLE, NO BEGINNING, NO END.

10-06-2002, 10:37 PM	#35
AM Jeff Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The House Of Rage Posts: 1,320	Wanna know why you haven't heard anything from the BIG BOYS? Instead if fucking bitching about it. They are working on a solution and fucking dealing with the problem at hand. Not whining.... If you don't like what VISA has handed down to you.. Get the fuck outta this business. Its not for you.

10-06-2002, 11:07 PM	#37
AM Jeff Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The House Of Rage Posts: 1,320	Yeah...you'd be surprised who I am..lol I got better things to worry about than $750. If your worried about this silly BS. Get the fuck out and go get a job. McDonalds is hiring. I hear.. With benifits too Fucking whiners..

10-07-2002, 04:18 AM	#39
manilaheat Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 584	Any interest in a third party billing service in the Philippines? $250.00 setup fee gets you your own ATM bank account in which your bi-weekly funds are deposited directly to. Our company will have an offshore system sponsored and partly owned by a Philippine Bank here within 2 months. Let me have some feedback on this issue...

10-07-2002, 04:39 AM	#40
Bear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 261	Can Philippine allow porn business? I mean hardcore or SM things.

10-07-2002, 11:42 AM	#41
AM Jeff Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The House Of Rage Posts: 1,320	49thParallel..."I've" got better things to do than worry about $750 or what will happen next. I also hire ignorant fucks like you that have nothing better to do then mircoscope out and correct grammer. Some people normally hire stupid fucks to do that for us since they don't know how to tie their own shoes. Go back to pumping your neighbors dog. I'll holler at ya if I need anything proof read.