Idea of the plan is not to work only once, but not to work every day either. Was it Reagan who said "it's not intention but ability that matters"? Our ability to jump ship in the matter of second should matter for the billing companies. And our determination to do that if necessary.

If we will decide to process with this plan, for the first period it will lead only to the mass exodus from the big 3 since all the major fuck ups are currently comming from them. But those guys who got pool's money should know the button is still there and not going anywhere. If they supply us with good service now, they better not stop doing so in the future. We're not giving our money for free, they should earn them, and earn every day, not only one time to get us sign up with them.

So if one of the billing companies who scored recently eventually decided to go ccbill's or epoch's way, well... Red button is still there :1orglaugh

Let me see if I can put a few things to rest.

Yes WSB, IBill, CCBill, Epoch, Jettis talk to each other and discuss current issues. There is of course strength in numbers, but in this case it's not enough to go up against Visa. WSB is no coward when it comes to standing up for what we believe is right, sometimes to our financial detriment, but in this case it's been made very clear. Tow the line or get sunk.

WSB does have a U.K. presence. That's because we have an offshore banking relationship. It's not the only relationship, before you start getting edgy. We like to keep our options open, especially for our european webmasters.

From this standpoint let me tell you why I believe that the anger is misguided and why I personally wouldn't process offshore if I was in your shoes (a US company) right now. Three words, 'Cross Border Acquiring'. Visa International has made it really very clear that US webmasters need to process with a US processing company and so forth with each of it's regions.

If we could just process offshore and keep things the way they are, we would. Visa is no dummy, they'll be hunting and restricting cross-border merchants next. If any biller thinks they're going to be able to process US webmaster's transactions when they're not in the U.S., think again, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon the axe will fall.

My take on this: Basically Visa has had enough. Form a pool if you like. Demo in the streets and stick pins in effigies. They really don't care. They'd be quite happy in fact if the whole adult thing went away. Sure it'd be a short term drop in revenue, they might not be able to afford that fourth Picasso in the new New York office.

Think of us what you will. I firmly believe that continuing to process via 3rd party is the best combination of fees vs. productivity. Stagger through these mine fields on your own if you want. Personally I'd rather have a billing company that's on the bleeding edge of technology and communication with Visa/MC. WSB, IBill, CCBill, Epoch and Jettis will continue on, and I wish the others success also.

rnicey, you miss the whole point.

This VISA thing is the major reason why people feel pissed off now, but in fact it is just the last drop. We're tired from the arrogant and pompous attitude major billing companies practiced long ago before we first heard about new VISA regulations. And the way they handled current situation was so outrageous we feel we should intefere and put that to the end.

If you'd said just "guys we've got problems with VISA, and we're bleeding white trying to save as much as we can, but VISA is just stronger. we will help our clients at best of our abilities to come through this alive and in one piece, be that domestic or foreign clients" that would be the whole different story. But the godlike attitude some of your buddies seem to enjoy so much is absolutely intolerable.

You took the words right outta my mouth Nautilus!!

:thumbsup

Who do you think you fucking are WSB?, God?, ALah?

YOU ARE FUCKING DEAD IF WE ALL SWITCH TO GLOBILL OR MULTICARDS, OR EVERYTHING.

YOU EAT FROM OUR MONEY!

YOU STEP DOWN FROM THAT CLOUD AND ASK FORGIVENESS!

Ok, as Nautilus said, enough, i have a big rebill database and if i have to mail all my customers, no prob, i will.

I DID IT BEFORE AND WILL DO IT AGAIN, I DON'T FUCKING MIND START FROM SCRATCH IF I HAVE TO. But thing is clear here: WE ALL GOING TO REMEMBER YOUR ATTITUDE AND WE'LL SPREAD THE WORD AND YOUR BIZ WILL BE DEAD

WE ARE ALL ONE CIRCLE, NO BEGINNING, NO END.

Nautilus is rigth, this people is beyond redemption, just start the switch over.

For all US Foreign companies, I would rather do business with a IPSP who DOESN'T fall into that VISA USA bullshit.

You are saying that VISA INTERNATIONAL will not allow US companies to process in another juridiction than the USA. But guess what...

1. US webmasters just have to pay $1500 to open a company wherever the fuck is the other processor. Anyways, if we continue to do business with USA IPSPs we'll have to pay around $2500 for 2 processors (first and backup).

2. Canadians and Foreign webmasters can choose to go wherever the fuck they want, and if they want to be more carefull they just have to incorporate where the Aquiring bank is. It will be CHEAPER than paying the Visa USA fees and the incorporation fees in USA.

:1orglaugh

There are two 'L's in Allah.

I really dont feel the $750 is really an issue for most people, and to everyone in the US that is nice and easy.

But the requirements for us overseas webmasters are looking more and more ridiculous all the time. This is where I think you will find most of the anquish is coming from.

The billers involved really should have had a clear statement on EXACTLY what is required from non US webmasters before releasing anything and have options to allow them to keep processing.

You guys have known about this since late July. To be told in October is totally unacceptable.

Actually that's not entirely true. We knew something was coming, but as usual with the big V they didn't clarify until just recently.

For example there was a prety good attendance at the recent ETA show in Seattle for the Visa IPSP talk because there was still so much confusion and ambiguity about the drafts. As soon as we had a solid enough view of it, we passed it on.

I understand the frustration and the anger. You're not the only ones.

I would still love to see in writing from all the billers a definitive definition of what is required in the way of US Company and US presense for international webmasters.

Do we just need an employee? Does that employee need to assume any risk like they would if we were to get our merchant accounts (requirements for someone with a US SSN to sign a guarantee).

I have been told several different things from you just need a tax ID and Post Office box(which I already have a US tax ID for my Australian company - so I wouldnt even need a US company), to I need to have someone own at least 1% of the company that is based in the US.

When are we going to see something like this?

Look Mr. WSB instead of correcting my spell of the arabic name for God, WHY DON'T YOU DO YOUR FUCKING HOMEWORK AND SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM WITHOUT FUCKING OUR ASSES?

If you are so good at spelling, i'm sure you were one of the writers of the VISA rules, no doubt.

Asshole.

Globill said it first, this is pointed to terminate 3rd party billing:

"The new Visa rules in particular are directed against "aggregators" which specifically means companies such as ours in the third-party industry. The new rules are slated to come into effect very shortly within the US. These rules would make the third-party model prohibitively expensive for the industry. It would essentially be rendered impractical. Some billing companies such as Lancelot have decided to shut down rather than continue under the Visa/Mastercard regime.

However, not all regions of the world come under the new rules. The merchant banking industry is broken up into different regions such as North America, Europe, Asia etc. Each region can decide to opt in or opt out. While the US region has opted in, other regions have opted out. GloBill has decided to run its business with reputable banks in the opt-out regions. Not all billing companies have the capital, know how or foresight to set up merchant accounts with these particular banks and that is why I foresee some of these companies going under over the next few months.

With this move, GloBill feels it will emerge as one of the most stable companies in the industry.

Adrian Martin
Vice President
Glo-Bill.com "

Now, the 3 stooges know this is the end for them UNLESS.... unless they can incorporate us all into US, ha ha ha...

They now that, if they fail to force us, it is the fucking end for them and if they don't die, it will be becasue they could come up with some solution, fine, then let them agonize and find that solution.

they deserve it for being arrogant all this years.

You heard that rnicey from WSbilling?, YOU KNOW YOU ARE FUCKED, IF WE DON'T FOLLOW YOUR TRICK YOU ARE DOOMED

What do you have to add?, huh?, what happens if all your customers decide NOT to follow your suit?

Thanks for the info

When did WSB notify it's clients about new VISA regulations? I'm not your client and I don't know when you informed your customers, and I do not want to speculate. But I certainly do hope your clients knew that BEFORE or at least THE SAME INSTANT notorious now "joint statement" was published here on GFY.

As iBill customer I was informed several days LATER. Don't you think that is outrageous? As a customer I deserve to know there are troubles going my way BEFORE the GFY knows. Do not remember anything in our contract saying I have to consult GFY for the recent updates.

Just ask people about the web900 fiasco by ibill

then you will see thats nothing :1orglaugh

You're right. With the ass acking from the fresh pain I forgot I was already fucked by them not so long before :glugglug

Who said Adult accounts for a small % of Visa's revenue? That's bullshit. 2/3's of a multi-billion dollar industry is not noticeable to them? Guess again bro.

if at least a few of you form this processor-pool thing, then make it public, we will pick those sponsors first then, and suggest to everyone to do the same. this will put some pressure on lameass sponsors as well.

Ibill process about 450million from memory - Visa process about 2 Trillion. Do the math and see how much of a dent it will make. And yes I know its not just Ibill but if you add it all toether it is still small.

And there is a difference between adult, and internet adult - the later obviously being smaller.

IBill need to feel some pain, so they get an idea of how their clients feel when dealing with them.

What a fucked up piece of shit the CMI is - one part of it never tallies with the other, try getting a daily total, in one place it will say one figure and in another a totally different one.
Not to mention the frequent slowness and downtime

On a personal note the Visa issue is just the last straw for me, As a UK based webmaster it looks as tho I'm gonna have to jump ship anyhow (of course I've asked Ibill for clarification of this but have not got any answer at all, mind you its only been 3 days)

And that WSB fucktard that corrected another guys spelling rather than answering the questions just lost them a potential client. I shall watch with glee as IBill go down :)

Well what i think is that if all webmasters bend over and take this new regulation, well that leaves a door open for some more...

What do you think, if we all say ok VISA you can do that but that's it, yeah right, they will just come out with something new and more fees and shit.

the problem in this industry is that the mainstream doesn't take us serouisly, why? Because we are working with sex?

We fucking developped the internet to where it is, we are the pionneers, without us, the internet would still be a Text base thing.

Well anyways, it's about time we get some respect from the mainstream world and George Bush can kiss my ass with his anti Porn.

WEll i said enought

visa - people world wide can get a card

webmasters - need to us incoporate to be able to take credit cards

thats fucked up and illegal!

This ain't negotiation time. This is Scarface, final scene, f**kin' bazookas under each arm, 'say hello to my little friend!

Watch this, it is from globosale.com:

Hi,

Since our company and most of our merchant banks are located in
Switzerland (Europe) the new US banking regulation (the real reason for
the new visa and mastercard regulations) doesn't affect us in any way.
Therefore we can offer you a stable and long term business relationship.

Your most important question: yes, we can work with your existing
password file and therefore we can work as backup processor. We do only
add and delete password file entries. The only problem that can occur is
if both processors tries to manage the same login name. It's technically
impossible to handle this.

Your users can freely choose their login name. The password will be
generated by our system and mailed to the customer. With this we enforce
your customer to enter a valid email address.

What else do you need to know?
Again, signup and check out everything. Most questions will be answered
by checking out our system.

Thank you.

Regards,
Roli
globoSALE.net



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: TI Customer Service [mailto:[email protected]]
Bereitgestellt: Montag, 7. Oktober 2002 17:08
Bereitgestellt in: 2 - HELP
Unterhaltung: AW: Interested
Betreff: Re: AW: Interested


Ok, this is about new VISA regulations, how are you doing about that?,
can you please give me details about how you operate, how you manage
member adding/deleting etc.do you support a backup processor? the more
details the best.