Translation: I made shit up, I got called out, and now I can't back it up...so I'm going to attack the person who called me out and tell them to check their facts.

The fact is that federal overtime laws have NEVER, EVER, EVER, required employers to pay overtime for people who worked more than 8 hours per day.
It has required employers to pay overtime for more than 40 hours in a week.

As for your fact check, the 40 hour work week was a policy signed into law by FDR. The idea was that it would be better to have more people working 40 hour weeks than fewer people working 60+ hour weeks, which was the standard at that time.

Under the rules that were changed in 2004, they exempted some professions and changed the rules on what the income limits would be for "salaried employees" who do not receive overtime.

The rule was NEVER that over 8 hours a day was overtime, and therefore, that rule was not changed, because it never existed.

You can't allow the minimum wage to be dictated by market forces when the government interferes with the labor market to guarantee that there is always a surplus of workers.

When unemployment rates get too low, that has an inflationary impact on the economy. Then the fed steps in, and raises rates and lowers the money supply to slow the economy down and drive unemployment back up.

Hence, the laws of supply and demand don't really apply because the government always ensures that there is a surplus supply in the labor market. Because of this a minimum wage is necessary.

IMO, if you're going to have a minimum wage, it should at least be at or slightly above the poverty level. :2 cents:

Who's to say someone's skill is only worth $5. Besides say there wasn't a minimum wage. Well in my area wal-mart, McDonald's etc would pay maybe $3.50 an hour. First of all that would reduce the income of the area meaning people have less money to spend at palces at wal-mart and McDonald's etc. And thus their sales would hurt but they are too stupid to see that because they only look short term. so their solution would be to either cut wages further ot cut hours further hurting sales. Because as I said they are stupid.

Also this guarantees high turnover in employees. Once again NOT good for profit. when you're always having to train new people productivity is bound to go down. Higher productivity=higher profits. Simple economics.

Also people would be eligible for MORE welfare MORE food stamps etc etc. Is that good? where does this money come from. ME the taxpayer. There is absolutely ZERO reason I should have to subsidize the wages of a person working full time because their employer doesn't want to pay decent wages.

That person whose wages are gong to go from $5.15 to $7.25 will get LESS welfare( that=GOOD ) pay MORE in taxes ( meaning LESS is needed from me ) LESS earned income credit( which is an oxymoron anyways ). They'll get less in foodstamps.

Now food stamps are free from sales taxes. Where I live sales tax on food is 8.25% so every $1 spent on food using food stamps means 8.25 less cents that is needed for the state and local coffers. Considering where I live 40% of the people are get food stamps, my local area is shorted of thousands of dollars each year in revenue. Doesn't sound like much, but in a rural area it is. So either services get cut or taxes are raised on us that aren't on government assistance. All because a company like wal-mart that makes nearly a half a TRILLION in in sales doesn't want to pay decent wages.


Now lets' face it, many of wal-mart and McDonald's customers are their own employees. So those employees getting paid higher wages will inevitably spend that extra money at wal-mart and McDonald's thus offsetting the higher pay these places have to pay out. There's no doubt that the worker whose take home pay is $3400 a year more is going to spend that money at palces like wal-mart. How that is somehow BAD for wal-mart is beyond me.

GatorB For Presidentttttttttttttttttttttt

Minimum wage actually varies from state to state....dipshit

Yeah 5.85 is federal but only like 10 states have it at that rate

Here's Canadian minimum wage by province ;-)

Alberta $8.00
BC $8.00
Manitoba $8.00
New Brunswick $7.25
Newfoundland $7.50
NWT $8.25
Nova Scotia $7.60
Nunavut $8.50
Ontario $8.00
PEI $7.50
Quebec $8.00
Saskatchewan $8.25
Yukon $8.37

I was referring to the federal minimum wage. When someone asks about "the minimum age" they are aksing about the FEDERAL wage. If someone wanted to know about California's minimum wage they would ask about "California's minimum wage"


Actually 18 states have minimum wages either at or lower than the federal level or no minimum wage law at all, not 10. My state is one of them. approxomitely 29% of the population of the US lives in those 18 states. Of the other 32 most have raised thier recently beause the federal government refused too. Florida is one of them that have yearly increases. This benefits business by not socking them every 10 years with a huge 40% increase in wages they have to pay out. For example in January the minimum wage went from $6.67 to $6.79. MUCH easier on businesses.

hahahahahahahah pathfinder is such an idiot

I'm sure that's Candaian $$$ so it's harder to compare

You do realize WHERE the government gets the money from don't you? YOU. And paying someone for hard day's work is NOT welfare.

Would YOU work at McDonald's for $5 an hour? No and neither would 99% of the people out there. I think a job in which 99% of he people would refuse to work is worth more than $5 an hour.

By contrast a benchwamer on a MLB team that never plays makes over $300,000 a year. Now if I ask if people would do that job for $300k 99% would say yes. And It doesn't really take a whole lot of skill to sit your ass on the bench now does it?

Who's to blame for the tactics of Wal-Mart and McDonald's? We are.

As consumers, we're constantly demanding lower prices. As investors, which many of us are, we're constantly demanding higher returns. The wage component of price is therefore reduced the most, to satisfy our demands.

Employers are able to get away with paying inadequate wages because of the welfare system, they simply offload the responsibility of maintaining their labourers to the state. Remove, or restrict the entitlement system, and employers will be compelled to provide wages sufficient to guarantee the subsistence of the labourer.

Raising minimum raise will fix nothing. If you make $6/hr at mcdonalds and the law changes to $9.50 it now costs mcdonalds more money to make that delicious hamburger. Who do you think is going to absorb that cost? McDonalds? LO fucking L. McDonalds will simply raise the price of the hamburger so its a wash in the end. Your $1 burger will now cost $1.50.

What I'm saying is that if minimum wage is raised, the cost of goods and services will absorbed by consumers not businesses.

A great deal of big business run very low profit margins (10%-15%) To test this check the stock information. You can find the operating profit for any publicly traded company.

General Electric - net operating profit 13%
Toyota Motor Co - ~6%
Best Buy - A Whopping 3%

Fact is they cant afford a wage hike like this. They have to make it up somewhere and thats the price of the goods.

As for the "what constitutes full time" debate, 40+ hours a week if full time. Regardless of hours worked, no employer MUST provided benefits such as health care once you reach 20, 40, 60, 8000 hours a week so who cares if your full time or part time if there is no law to force benefits. There is no guarantee.

And prices are too high customers won't buy. So no McDonald's won't raise prices. As I said the local wal-mart eat at Mcdonald's right? With more money isn't it logical to assume they will either go more often or perhaps buy a more expensive combo? Don't those increases in sales offset the higher wages? Of course they do. You fail to see the BIG picture. McDonald's raises price anyways even without a minimum wage increase so that's BS. They use that as an easy excuse. Not to mention when they passed the increase they gave businesses a tax cut so please.

And if allowed to continue to pay low wages comsumers will be subsidzing poor workers through higher taxes. Which part that don't you get?

Fact is every other time minimum wage was raised the haters all said inflation would increae when in fact it did just the opposite. You can't find me ONE example of where minimum wage increased and inflation went up and the minimum wage was the cause of it. NOT ONE.



If business person is so inept that he can't proivde for a decent wage perhaps he souldn't be in business? Perhaps he should be working for somone. On ecould make the case that a low minium wage keeps people in business that really shouldn't be in business. If I run a business but the only way I can make profit is paying workers 43 an hours should I be allowed to do that because my skill as abusines person sucks?

QUOTE= And prices are too high customers won't buy. So no McDonald's won't raise prices. As I said the local wal-mart eat at Mcdonald's right? With more money isn't it logical to assume they will either go more often or perhaps buy a more expensive combo? Don't those increases in sales offset the higher wages? Of course they do. You fail to see the BIG picture. McDonald's raises price anyways even without a minimum wage increase so that's BS. They use that as an easy excuse. Not to mention when they passed the increase they gave businesses a tax cut so please.

I guess McDonalds will sell burgers for a net loss of .10 each.

No its not logical for them to buy more because the cost will go up.

I make $5/hr a burger costs $1
I make $10/hr burger costs $2

Both increase 20%. Again, a wash.

QUOTE

If business person is so inept that he can't proivde for a decent wage perhaps he souldn't be in business? Perhaps he should be working for somone. On ecould make the case that a low minium wage keeps people in business that really shouldn't be in business. If I run a business but the only way I can make profit is paying workers 43 an hours should I be allowed to do that because my skill as abusines person sucks?


And if the employee sucks he should be entitled to more than .43 and hour?

If all you can do is flip a burger why should you make good money? Its no ones fault but your own.

It's pretty naive to call McDonalds or Walmart "stupid", they know damn well what they are doing. They probably have a team of economists spending their whole day analyzing stuff like this. If there was no minimum wage they would simply pay a rate that is in the best interest of their shareholders given the area/circumstances. In some areas they might pay $5/hr, in others they may pay perhaps $15/hr.

Of course you are right, you shouldn't have to subsidize anyone, but why are you blaming it on businesses? How is it business' fault that there are people out there willing to perform the given job for $5/hr? Businesses are in no way obligated to pay a "decent wage", their only obligation is to their shareholders.

Exactly. Wages are supposed to go up when you cannot find workers for a job for the lower rate. IE no one will flip burgers for $6, lets increase the wage to $7. Not they will do it for $5 lets give them $10 anyway. More skills = more money.

on the radio a economist said if walmart decided tomorrow to give every employee a dollar a hour raise tomorrow.it would raise the cost of goods 1 cent.So there goes 9 bucks a hour and prices go thru the roof theory. Also I agree with Gator and I think people dont realize you are paying for these people making 5 bucks a hour. I watched that documentary on walmart,they gave their employees a list of government programs they could take advantage of because they were paid so little.We pay for low wages.

You are stupid. You're numbers aren't even real. Show me how an $5 increase in wages =$1 increase in prices? ther are othr factors. I've gotten into them you are too obtuse to even look logically at them.

Yep half of wal-mart's worker are on medicaid. Now who pays for that? WE do. Appearantly some are perfectly happy with that so as long wal-mart can continue to make BILLIONS in profits. It's WAL-MART's employees since when am I obligated to support thier health care?

9.50$/hours

vs 500 for some hoe to spread her legs and receiving a nasty facial

Your free market thinking would work if we actually had a free market. It's an illusion.

You are also delusional because minimum wage IS NOT GOING AWAY. That is a FACT. Now since it is a FACT, what do you propose is the BEST way of handling it? $2 increases every 10 years? To sit around year after year and whine about how wages should stay low and pretend minimum wage won't ever go up is the hight of stupidity. And it's what causes problems.

many politicians beleive like me and think social security should be done away with. But guess what, anyone making that proposal not only won't get anywhere with that he won't get re-elected. So instead of sitting around and doing NOTHING because you can't get your way and only making the problem worse, it's better to work within the system we have to make it better.

Min wage is slated to rise over the next couple years. I think $9.50 an hour is good considering how long it's been so low. Big companies and the government want to keep people in the middle class. With all the billions that we have spent for the war, we could have just given each person in this country a million dollars and everyone would be out of the middle class and the economy would be where it should.

Thats smart bro. Make lots of money and buy stuff cheap. Your a retard if you want to make high wages but spend it all on locally made goods that cost exponentially more. :2 cents:

Canadian dollar is at par with the US

Doesn't matter what minimal wage you discuss, it's still fucked up against Swedish standards.

Stupid bitch.

Companies would fire employees left and right if that happened.

:warning

Everyone says the same shit about minimum wage and small business and even big business. Price increases, layoffs, all the same bullshit. We see it all of the time in California. Though every time it has happened none of it happened with most companies with the exception being a very few on the brink already small companies.

Large companies like Coco Cola, Pepsi, McDonalds, Walmart and so forth did not fire anyone, did not raise prices, and actually kept prices the same or lowered them and kept on hiring people instead of firing people.

Then on the flip side companies such as In and Out burger, Starbucks and the like already pay well more than minimum wage plus benefits. Places like In and Out burger also have prices that are at least competitive if not cheaper than those of McDonalds with higher quality foods and more labor involved.

At same thanks to loopholes many companies, typically farms and the like are able to give a per item pay instead of an hourly wage. Be it per bushel picked, or per pound gathered. This is one way we insure that those tasty hamburgers everyone is concerned about will not jump from the .99 menu to the 4.00 menu as it is purely cause and effect. Starts with grain that feeds the cows who make the meat and the buns. Then the tomatoes picked to make the catchup, the onions, the cucumbers for the pickles, the mustard seed, the lettuce, the actual tomatoes, the potatoes for the fries, and so forth. Though you think those labor laws will also change when minimum wage goes up? Nope!

i get min wage and live well

2008 Minimum Wage Rate: $9.36/hour
effective January 1, 2008

Why do you have to resort to lies?

i believe min wage in London is somewhere around $16/hour

There is often a difference between lies and ignorance. Perhaps he heard something that made him think that, then that would be ignorance no?

Well, I don't think anyone is going to argue that GatorB is not ignorant, that is pretty much a given, but I feel that comment (half of wal-mart's worker are on medicaid) was a blatant lie.

I have heard odd ball stats by assorted anti walmart propagandists that site such BS. I check up on it myself, yet I am still very anti walmart myself.

I will admit that they do offer guidance and such on how to apply for assorted Government programs. Then again so does that one odd ball fucker who is real old that squeels and tries to sell his book to people during late night tv.

Medicaid is not easy to get.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh I have no idea where they import the ghetto ass people who work at the local fast food places and even restaurants. Maybe they bus them in.

OR they would just go where they can pay somebody 9.50 a DAY.

Yes because wal-mart and McDonald's can run with ZERO employees. sorrythose place HAVE to have a certian amount fo workers and unlike a facotry they can't move to China. So tough shit. pay up or close shop. which they won't because they make insane money.

Actually I was watching a documentary on walmart that did say something along those lines.
Walmart actually has pamphlets and things that they give to their employees explaining how to get government assistance.

Maybe the correct statistic is that 50% of their employees receive government assistance. That could be medicaid, food stamps, wic, etc.

Still, that's quite a statistic considering they're the nation's largest employer.

Shit I remember my first job was 2.75/hr minimum wage. They would give you a rise every 3 to 6 months I think it was from .05 to .15 cents a hour.

:1orglaugh

needless to say I've only had 3 jobs that I wasn't my own employer.

That's no problem....They'll just hire Pedro the wetback

http://www.thespoof.com/sitepics/pdi...749Mexican.jpg