EPOCH Clarification and Policies on New VISA Regs - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Serge_Oprano · 10-04-2002, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyingco

Yeah Clay, I am sure your POMPOUS replies to webmasters here is going to win you a lot of friends and new clients. So far I have heard many are jumping ship and intending to leave your company for someone else.

-Nato

Clay,
if I were you,
I'd let all whiners go....
big guys are 90% of your business,
and they be back after they get burnt with new processors who are ill equipped to deal with 20,000
2 sign ups a day small fishes.

Gran cosa!

Serge_Oprano · 10-04-2002, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sweandy
<bashing>

Epoch got bad attitude and ugly stats

and Clay wears pink underwear!

archer · 10-04-2002, 03:35 PM

As a canadian webmaster two things really bother me about all this VISA crap

a) apparently having to set up a US.

Why on Earth should I have to do that? VISA USA is effectively setting up a non tariff barrier to trade violating the spirit if not the letter of NAFTA.

b) the gathering of information.

This is the part that I find really disturbing. Far too much like big brother for my liking. Who, besides VISA is going to have access to this info?

and, CLAY, there is more to explaining than just quoting VISA legalese. Get a marketer or legal counsel in here .

Serge_Oprano · 10-04-2002, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by archer
Get a marketer or legal counsel in here .

Clay,
as long as you are taking orders from 2 bitters,
I would like to order:
2 bottles of Silver Oak 1997 Merlot and tin of blacj caviar.

Please deliver it all via FedEX by tomorrow morning OR ELSE!

Serge_Oprano · 10-04-2002, 03:41 PM

whoops, I used politically incorect term:
2 bitters is bad, bad bad,
TRPers is the right word

TDF · 10-04-2002, 03:44 PM

now i see why lens had you banned before.Useless banter about nothing. I think im going to go play piddle the shit with the stick

Epoch · 10-04-2002, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyingco

Yeah Clay, I am sure your POMPOUS replies to webmasters here is going to win you a lot of friends and new clients. So far I have heard many are jumping ship and intending to leave your company for someone else.

As for preserving your clients best interest, let me guess what I know about your LAST RUN IN with YOUR ACQUIRER; Whereby you had your account FROZEN.

I have been in the same industry for mainstream sites and I can guess what happened.

1. You were having way too high chargeback ratios and that is when your acquirer started asking questions and asking you to provide financials. I know because I also used to work for both IBM on their Visa/MC terminals and also in a bank. And that is what happens when you get too much chargebacks. So I am assuming that happened to YOUR COMPANY.

With such a background, I wonder why ANY WEBMASTER would go to your company when you could not even keep your chargebacks low then now you are asking SMALL and BIG websites to rely on your FRAUD MECHANISM. I will predict the following in the near future, if EPOCH continues this way, there will some POOR SOUL who will have his/her credit rating ruined because of your company.

It is NOT a fact, but I will definitely say for those of you who TRUST EPOCH at all, you better GFY because sooner or later, EPOCH will do it for you.

-Nato

Nato - It's definitely not a fact. If you look at the facts, EPOCH has among the lowest chargeback and credit ratios in the industry. Being able to stay under the Mastercard's 1% threshold and still maintain excellent throughput speaks for itself.

nuf said.

Clay
EPOCH

bellskids · 10-04-2002, 05:18 PM

EPOCH WILL NOT process transactions for any Sponsored Merchants who processes transactions outside of their
registered jurisdiction, this means that if EPOCH registers you as a US Sponsored Merchant and ANY of your URLs
EVER process ANY transactions in another VISA region we will immediately terminate your account with EPOCH, terminate
all recurring billing, hold all processing proceeds and refer the URLs to VISA International for non-compliance. This
is an EPOCH policy designed to protect our business and our Sponsored Merchants ability to continue to process long
into the future.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does this mean that if any US based websites accept memberships from another VISA region, eg a british guy. then they will be terminated?

Ive read thru this a few times and each time I read it i see it as saying that only US signups are allowed.

Anyone else notice this?

Or am i getting the wrong end of the stick and it actually means if you ever process with another company (such as globill) that is operating outside VISA USA then you will be terminated.

If it is the first, then basically all international online porn is basically dead in 1 month? Nobody operating outside the US can signup US Visa card holders, and nobody inside the US setup for business with the big 3 can ever accept international joins?

Serge_Oprano · 10-05-2002, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by toodamnfli
now i see why lens had you banned before.Useless banter about nothing. I think im going to go play piddle the shit with the stick

so you know,
Lens got me banned because he was affraid that after me explaining 80% of GFY about their uselessness,
they drop out of business and he loses posters
;-)))

flyingco · 10-05-2002, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Epoch

Nato - It's definitely not a fact. If you look at the facts, EPOCH has among the lowest chargeback and credit ratios in the industry. Being able to stay under the Mastercard's 1% threshold and still maintain excellent throughput speaks for itself.

nuf said.

Clay
EPOCH

Yeah, you stand close to under the MC's 1% threshold but NOT Visa's eh? ;) Read between the lines gentlemen.

Maintaining excellence is paying your adult webmasters on time, not drag it out with IOUs. Or are you claiming that you spent the money whoring and then woke up one day and said shit, I got to replace it somehow now and started to tell your adult webmasters that? I have heard that story so many times in the mainstream industry.

Epoch will NOT be the FIRST TO CLIAM THIS EXCUSE; NOR will be EPOCH be the last; Your REPUTATION STINKS. Geez, and you are asking us webmasters to trust you. Yeah right, if ANY WEBMASTER believes this BS, come to me, I can sell you the ENTIRE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING FOR 100K.

You have REPEATED IGNORED AN EXPLANATION and will henceforth be sent to the corner, your explanations do NOT carry weight PERIOD. Jesus Christ, who allowed this !@#$%^&* idiot here anyways?

-Nato

Serge_Oprano · 10-05-2002, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyingco

Jesus Christ, who allowed this !@#$%^&* idiot here anyways?

-Nato

Yesterday I went to my favorite restaurant with my broker.

The waiter overheard our conversation and introduced himself as a former stock broker.

I see lots of webmasters taking similar jobs in the near future.

Adult revenues follow the Dow Jones Industrials with a 1 year delay and I think the major drop in revenues is just around the corner.

If you happen to be one of the unfortunate ones and wait on the table of the more fortunate ones-
wink that you know them from GFY and I bet you get a bigger tips,
and this is my solution to all present and future Visa/MC/etc adult internet problems.

no smile this time.

kevinl · 10-05-2002, 03:58 AM

I am just glad for Clay's sake i don't process with Epoch. You actually follow through with that threat and you will definitely have a class action suit. Those rebills aren't candy that you hand out to webmasters. You do not decide what the rules are and arbitrarily change them. I am not lawyer and I don't whatever fiduciary duty comes with being a third party biller that entitles you to make up rules that would damage somebody's recurring database. If those threats are based on rules that VISA set forth namely that I cannot use a processor in a different region or area while at the same time use an American processor then you need to post that.

If they are real threats then good luck in court. And if it is bullshit then it is funny.

I assume you are saying a webmaster using you as a primary and globill as a secondary will have to forfeit his rebills with one of you. I certainly wouldn't do that. I imagine the guy from Globill is copying all your posts and I know any webmaster in those circumstances is too.

You really ought to get a lawyer to review what you say.

flyingco · 10-05-2002, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano

Yesterday I went to my favorite restaurant with my broker.

The waiter overheard our conversation and introduced himself as a former stock broker.

I see lots of webmasters taking similar jobs in the near future.

Adult revenues follow the Dow Jones Industrials with a 1 year delay and I think the major drop in revenues is just around the corner.

If you happen to be one of the unfortunate ones and wait on the table of the more fortunate ones-
wink that you know them from GFY and I bet you get a bigger tips,
and this is my solution to all present and future Visa/MC/etc adult internet problems.

no smile this time.

Guess soon Clay will be waitering on my table. ;)

I do NOT concur about adult revenues following the Dow Jones Industrials -- If that was true, then in 1997 with the Asian Crisis then you should have seen a huge drop in 1997 and not until recently.

Whoops I shot Serge's arguement down. ;)

But seriously, porn is here to stay. If you cannot sell sex, you cannot sell anything.

-Nato

jimmyf · 10-05-2002, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinl
If they are real threats then good luck in court. And if it is bullshit then it is funny.

I assume you are saying a webmaster using you as a primary and globill as a secondary will have to forfeit his rebills with one of you. I certainly wouldn't do that. I imagine the guy from Globill is copying all your posts and I know any webmaster in those circumstances is too.

You really ought to get a lawyer to review what you say.

I must agree..

...And I must add... I wonder why Penthouse and others did not send there lawyers after him years ago...

bellskids · 10-05-2002, 06:31 AM

can somebody respond to my queries a couple posts up please?

erotictrance · 10-05-2002, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A.Martin

Without giving away the full game-plan on our strategy ...

I will reiterate what I stated in previous posts:

We will not divulge the full details on our strategies for obvious reasons.

This is total BS and completely dishonest.

If Globill had a REAL, HONEST solution, you should be able to say so --- with all of the details --- so that webmasters could evaluate it on their own.

This is a crisis for many webmasters who are looking for information and answers--- and you're peddling this "I can't tell you, just trust me" bullshit? Outrageous!!!

Don't say that Epoch, CCBill and IBill are wrong if you don't have the guts to actually disclose what the hell you are talking about ...

At this point Globill has NO CREDIBILITY whatsoever with this BS ....

Serge_Oprano · 10-05-2002, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyingco

If that was true, then in 1997 with the Asian Crisis then you should have seen a huge drop in 1997 and not until recently. Whoops I shot Serge's arguement down. ;)

But seriously, porn is here to stay. If you cannot sell sex, you cannot sell anything.

-Nato

1) check the chart of US markets and PornDollars revenues and you'll see you shot down nothing
;-)

2) true, but...how many sellers will remain out there?

USA does fine with ...just 3 auto makers,
(there were hundreds in the begining,
same with computers)

think about it...

hypherion · 10-05-2002, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by erotictrance

This is total BS and completely dishonest.

If Globill had a REAL, HONEST solution, you should be able to say so --- with all of the details --- so that webmasters could evaluate it on their own.

This is a crisis for many webmasters who are looking for information and answers--- and you're peddling this "I can't tell you, just trust me" bullshit? Outrageous!!!

Don't say that Epoch, CCBill and IBill are wrong if you don't have the guts to actually disclose what the hell you are talking about ...

At this point Globill has NO CREDIBILITY whatsoever with this BS ....

Maybe, maybe not. The problem is none of the others seem to have a clue about the new regulations either.

Epoch, CCBill and IBill claim that the new regulations are by country, while PSW reports that it is by region.

AC pay says it is still analyzing the new regulations, but do not plan to change anyhting in the near future. So they don't seem think there is a deadline on november 1, like the big three are telling us.

What I would really like is for VISA to come in and clarify their position on all of this because it is obvious from all the posting here that the ipsp's don't have clue.

erotictrance · 10-05-2002, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hypherion

Maybe, maybe not. The problem is none of the others seem to have a clue about the new regulations either.

Epoch, CCBill and IBill claim that the new regulations are by country, while PSW reports that it is by region.

AC pay says it is still analyzing the new regulations, but do not plan to change anyhting in the near future. So they don't seem think there is a deadline on november 1, like the big three are telling us.

What I would really like is for VISA to come in and clarify their position on all of this because it is obvious from all the posting here that the ipsp's don't have clue.

There's a big difference between someone saying, "We're still analyzing this and don't plan to make changes until we know what's going on ... "

And what Globill is saying, which is, "We have a total solution that will cost you nothing ... but we can't and WON'T tell you what it is. Switch to Globill!"

If, as you pointed out, all of the IPSP's --- including Globill --- don't have a clue ...

Then Globill is still being totally dishonest and trying to manipulate this situation to their advantage ...

hypherion · 10-05-2002, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by erotictrance

If, as you pointed out, all of the IPSP's --- including Globill --- don't have a clue ...

Then Globill is still being totally dishonest and trying to manipulate this situation to their advantage ...

I wouldn't say that. It looks more like everyone is interpreting the rules in their own way. And that is dangerous, wich ever provider you choose, because VISA is the only one who can really tell what the rules are.

erotictrance · 10-05-2002, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hypherion

I wouldn't say that. It looks more like everyone is interpreting the rules in their own way. And that is dangerous, wich ever provider you choose, because VISA is the only one who can really tell what the rules are.

Personally, I don't think IBill, CCBill and Epoch got to be the biggest IPSP's by being total idiots ... My guess is, they're probably right ... but that's just my opinion.

I do think it would be helpful if they would post a link to the actual VISA documents they are referring to, so people could read the new rules themselves and draw their own conclusions ...

Especially since I don't think VISA will be interacting directly with the adult webmaster community anytime soon, and clarifying the confusion ...

10-04-2002, 03:35 PM	#53
archer Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,721	As a canadian webmaster two things really bother me about all this VISA crap a) apparently having to set up a US. Why on Earth should I have to do that? VISA USA is effectively setting up a non tariff barrier to trade violating the spirit if not the letter of NAFTA. b) the gathering of information. This is the part that I find really disturbing. Far too much like big brother for my liking. Who, besides VISA is going to have access to this info? and, CLAY, there is more to explaining than just quoting VISA legalese. Get a marketer or legal counsel in here . __________________ Looking to promote uncut cock? Check out Uncut Cash. It rocks.

10-04-2002, 03:44 PM	#56
TDF Triple OG nigga on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: in the BP4L family compound Posts: 27,296	now i see why lens had you banned before.Useless banter about nothing. I think im going to go play piddle the shit with the stick __________________ Sig heil

10-05-2002, 03:58 AM	#62
kevinl Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: US Posts: 261	I am just glad for Clay's sake i don't process with Epoch. You actually follow through with that threat and you will definitely have a class action suit. Those rebills aren't candy that you hand out to webmasters. You do not decide what the rules are and arbitrarily change them. I am not lawyer and I don't whatever fiduciary duty comes with being a third party biller that entitles you to make up rules that would damage somebody's recurring database. If those threats are based on rules that VISA set forth namely that I cannot use a processor in a different region or area while at the same time use an American processor then you need to post that. If they are real threats then good luck in court. And if it is bullshit then it is funny. I assume you are saying a webmaster using you as a primary and globill as a secondary will have to forfeit his rebills with one of you. I certainly wouldn't do that. I imagine the guy from Globill is copying all your posts and I know any webmaster in those circumstances is too. You really ought to get a lawyer to review what you say. __________________ kevinl

10-04-2002, 03:41 PM	#55
Serge_Oprano So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,820	whoops, I used politically incorect term: 2 bitters is bad, bad bad, TRPers is the right word

10-04-2002, 05:18 PM	#58
bellskids Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 558	EPOCH WILL NOT process transactions for any Sponsored Merchants who processes transactions outside of their registered jurisdiction, this means that if EPOCH registers you as a US Sponsored Merchant and ANY of your URLs EVER process ANY transactions in another VISA region we will immediately terminate your account with EPOCH, terminate all recurring billing, hold all processing proceeds and refer the URLs to VISA International for non-compliance. This is an EPOCH policy designed to protect our business and our Sponsored Merchants ability to continue to process long into the future. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does this mean that if any US based websites accept memberships from another VISA region, eg a british guy. then they will be terminated? Ive read thru this a few times and each time I read it i see it as saying that only US signups are allowed. Anyone else notice this? Or am i getting the wrong end of the stick and it actually means if you ever process with another company (such as globill) that is operating outside VISA USA then you will be terminated. If it is the first, then basically all international online porn is basically dead in 1 month? Nobody operating outside the US can signup US Visa card holders, and nobody inside the US setup for business with the big 3 can ever accept international joins?

10-05-2002, 06:31 AM	#65
bellskids Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 558	can somebody respond to my queries a couple posts up please?